I got better results off PH than AS!

[Studly Hungwell]

May-June I took 600mgs. AD-1 for 5 weeks. 8 pound weight gain, strength up around 30 pounds on compound movements. Kept all but a few pounds post HCG/clomid.

Started test cyp 250mgs and 40mgs. anavar 6 weeks ago and still on. Gained 6 pounds and up maybe 20 pounds on compound movements. Diet and exercise same as AD-1 cycle.

I don't think it all boils down to quality of products. It may be I'm much closer to my genetic potential and the adaptation to routine.

I'm still trying to make that conversion from dropping AS all together and just using PH to make gains. The comparison of the two is helping in that regard. So far, two thumbs up for PH!

I know if I took this to the juice enthusiast on the AS board they would say my dosage is too small, not eating enough, need to vary my training, blah, blah, blah...same can be said for PH.

I used high dosage in the past. All I can say: Higher the climb, harder the fall.

 

[Scaggs]

That is a really bold statement to say. PH's better results than AS? how long did you wait to cycle your AS after coming off your 1-AD cycle? maybe it has to do with your recepters. Cycles being too close.

Scaggs

 

[Studly Hungwell]

I waited one month. It may be due to the fact that I've done three cycles in the past two years using three times more gear on each.

Also, the time I took AD-1, I reached rock bottom in my weight lifting porformance. I had no where to go but up. I really think you will get more out of regular AS than PH. The recent experience is more of a fluke, but as we now know; can be a possibility for some.

 

[Greek Freak]

No one tries to say tht PH's dont work at all, but everyone agrees(for the most part) that AAS will produce much better gains when used properly.

 

[riskybizz007]

I've gained more w/ 1AD than a couple of my cycles as well.

 

[Scaggs]

You know.... whether its because of massive AS cylces in the past or not, to ever gain more off a PH than AS due to any variables is an awsome thing.

Good To know,

Scaggs

 

[Fortes]

"That is a really bold statement to say."

Why is that so bold? A prohormone, by virtue of being just a prohormone, does not make itself less effective then different types of non-precursors.

For instance, I'm sure some mentally sick chemist could develop a methyltrienolone prohormone, for example, or a different prohormone which converts to a steroid so potent that tiny dosages would be a MUST.

Let us remember that 1-AD converts to a double-bond isomer of testosterone that has been proven to cause a mytrophic response 600% greater than testosterone alone, in vitro.


"No one tries to say tht PH's dont work at all"

Well, some stupid blockheads still do, unfortunately. They can't get over their "hardcoreness" or something.

"but everyone agrees(for the most part) that AAS will produce much better gains when used properly."

Everyone could agree that George Washington was really a ham samwhich and it would not make it true. That aside, which AAS are we talking about? Oral primo may or may not give you better strength gains than 1-AD in comparable dosages. Winstrol, on a qualitatively similar dose (say 75 mg of winny a day vs. 600 mg 1-AD a day) will not give you better gains in strength or size, and wether or not it would be a better aid in cutting is quite debatable. Most people who take 1-test products, including 1-AD, have reported losses in bodyfat while BULKING.

Yeah, you guessed it, I'm a huge 1-AD fan

400 mg/day for a month gave me 65 lbs. on my bench (300 to 365), 50 on my squat (405 to 455), gave me 15 lbs. of extra mass, increased my unweighted chins from 7 to 14 in a set, and so on.

And mind you, I'm not tiny, 5'11", 245 lbs. For its conversion ratio (PA estimates it about 15%), that's 60 mg of androgen a day, or about 420 mg per week, as a sole androgen.

However, it made my hair fall out (gasp!) and it gave me some serious estrogen rebound issues post cycle, in addition to decreasing my flexibility severely, giving me lower back tightness and making my heart flutter between beats. So I'm not so sure I'll do it again . . . man, I wish it didn't have any sides.

 

[Scaggs]

Fortes Are you predisposed to MPB? When you say your hair fell out? How much are we talking here? Did any of it grow back since you've been off it? That is my biggest concern. Hair loss.

Thanks,

Scaggs

 

[THeMaCHinE]

What brand of test cyp did you inject? What was your injection frequency? What brand of ox did you ingest? What was your ingestion frequency?

Your AS cycle was 6 weeks?

You say your diet was the exact same? How many calories per day did you take in, exactly? What were your protein/fat/carb ratios? You keep a food diary to support that your diet was the same, correct?

Did you follow the same sleep patterns? Have you had any additional stress in your life? Did you come off either cycle with clomid/nolva? Did you you use liquidex concurrent w/ your AS cycle?

Were you training the same way as you were last time? How was your strength on the AS cycle vs the PH cycle? What were your beginning and end measurements? What was your beginning and end bodyfat percentages on both cycles (not guesses, but actual measurements)?

 

[Fortes]

Scaggs -

I had absolutely NO problems with MPB before I took 1-AD. Ever since then, all the tiny hairs on my hairline (especially the two corners) have been falling out. I can rub my hairline and watch hair fall out without fail. However, a LOT of the hair I lost did grow back, and my hair looks fine now. But when I was on . . . people noticed. My younger brother REALLY noticed. He said, "Dude, you're going bald!"

 

[Studly Hungwell]

Re: Re: I got better results off PH than AS!

What brand of test cyp did you inject? What was your injection frequency? What brand of ox did you ingest? What was your ingestion frequency?
Ttokkyo test 250mgs. a week. 40mg generic anavar ed.
Your AS cycle was 6 weeks?
Still on so its more like 10 now.
You say your diet was the exact same? How many calories per day did you take in, exactly? What were your protein/fat/carb ratios? You keep a food diary to support that your diet was the same, correct?
2500-3000 cals a day and close to a gram of protein per body weight
Did you follow the same sleep patterns? Have you had any additional stress in your life? Did you come off either cycle with clomid/nolva? Did you you use liquidex concurrent w/ your AS cycle?
Using all accessories by the book. I'm an old juicer bro, I did not just get off the banana boat. I eat, sleep, and train in a pattern that works for me. I'm looking for the lean, Men's Health magazine cover look. Actually I'm pretty much there.
Were you training the same way as you were last time? How was your strength on the AS cycle vs the PH cycle? What were your beginning and end measurements? What was your beginning and end bodyfat percentages on both cycles (not guesses, but actual measurements)?

My strength went up by a few reps on compound movements while on AS. A FEW REPS!!! That is the disssapointment. I don't use trinkets or tape measure. I weigh myself and look in the mirror and be honest. Nothing really to jump for joy since being on AS post PH cycle.

 

[Thaibox]

Studly
This isn't a flame but I just don't like the way you presented this, its not supported at all.

I used high dosage in the past. All I can say: Higher the climb, harder the fall.

You need to learn how to use gear. At my highest level cycle(which by most standards was not high), I gained 28 lbs and kept 24. Being 240 at the start, that's a significant gain of lean muscle.

May-June I took 600mgs. AD-1 for 5 weeks. 8 pound weight gain, strength up around 30 pounds on compound movements. Kept all but a few pounds post HCG/clomid.

8 pounds isn't much at all. Simply changing a routine and diet could stimulate that much growth.

I waited one month. It may be due to the fact that I've done three cycles in the past two years using three times more gear on each.

You need to wait longer

You didn't answer any of Machine's questions.......................?

Fortes.......

Winstrol, on a qualitatively similar dose (say 75 mg of winny a day vs. 600 mg 1-AD a day) will not give you better gains in strength or size,

Most of what you said makes sense, and you sound intelligent enough to support yourself. However, this statement is complete bullshit. Have you ever tried Winny? Aside from Fina, out of everything I have tried, I have gotten the best strength response from 100winny/day. I have used it twice(the first time at 50/day).

Just to qualify myself, I'm not against PHs at all, I actually am putting together 8 weeks worth as we speak. It would be foolish to disregard something like the current PHs.

 

[Testoman]

PH's are better than AAS? Haha, maybe if you get some fake AAS sh&% then you might have point...

Testoman

 

[Aussie Juga naught]

You must of had fake gear...

 

[Thaibox]

Wonder why he hasn't responded

 

[Studly Hungwell]

I answered all of Machines questions. Look at the quote box; its screwed up I know, but the answers are there.

You are 240? What is your bf? I tried bulking cycles and kept gains to a decent level in the past, and you know what? I LOOKED AND FELT LIKE CRAP!!!!

I'll say again: Lean look, bigger than average is what I'm aiming for. With that in mind, I don't expect to gain 28 pounds and keep 24. I have a life outside the gym that i enjoy that may be considered a no no to the size matters crowd: Tennis, racketball, running, cycling, etc.

Don't forget the varing degree of genetics on this board aside from goals.

I don't think anyone here has gear use down to an exact science. Through my use I have gotten gains without horrendous side effects. To say I need to learn how to use gear is pure arrogance. To say my gear is fake is more reason to go PH and drop AS for good.

 

[Thaibox]

My response wasn't arogance. I said you need how to use gear in response to your statement of "the higher the climb the harder the fall." This just isn't true anymore. If you educate yourself and bust your ass, you won't take a dump. If your gear was fake, its not "more reason to go PH and drop AS for good." It simply means you need a better source.

I meant machine's specific questions about your gear

No I'm not 240, I'm 260 low bf. I was 240 before. I look and feel the best I ever have. I eat clean and train hard.

I think the problem here is this........

I have a life outside the gym that i enjoy that may be considered a no no to the size matters crowd: Tennis, racketball, running, cycling, etc.

I don't . We just have different priorities, thats all.

With respect to genetics, I started at 140 lbs clothed.

Anyway, sounds like a pissing match, sorry.

 

[Magnússon]

let me see, test or precusors of test, I wonder which one will yield better results

 

[Studly Hungwell]

Its all good Thaibox. My genetic disposition will allow so much. I know this of myself being in the game for years on end. If I juice and eat, eat, eat, train my ass off to a respectable 225 Ibs; I know my body will rebel and sail very fast to the 200Ib mark. I usuall hang around 185-190 naturally if I want to look good at the beach. I can juice light and look good at 198, loose 5 pounds after cycle and still be OK looking IMO.

Thats what i mean about the high climb and the hard fall. 5 pounds vs. 25. Its true for me.

MAG, I'll help you out bud: AS vs. PH
1) customs got my shit
2) my source turned scammer
3) should i sign? worried about controlled delivery
4) Got fake gear and its making me sick
5) Feds want to ask me a few questions
The list goes on. Oh sure all you have to do is be careful.
Cruise the anabolic board. If its not one thing its another and its way more common for my taste. Its getting old and i had my fun so I'm going to use what i got left and its PH from here on out. Peace.

 

[Bill Llewellyn]

let me see, test or precusors of test, I wonder which one will yield better results

If you took the precursor in a dose that allowed for more testosterone in your blood than what you were doing with the injectable, the PH would obviously work better...

 

[Thaibox]

If you took the precursor in a dose that allowed for more testosterone in your blood than what you were doing with the injectable, the PH would obviously work better...

Consider the sides with that amount. Makes no sense

 

[Flash_75]

I know its illegal and all, but look at the money difference between a competent 8 week PH cycle and an 8 week AAS cycle

PH

4 bottles of 1-T ether gels (molecular nutrition) = $168
2 bottles of 4-Aderm (Avant labs) = $80

Totaling $248
______________________________________________

AAS
1 belt component T-H = $70
2 bottles of T-200 = $100
1 kit for conversion = $35

Totaling $205
________________________________________________

Wow, I thought the AAS would come out cheaper. Its almost not worth the risk. I got some thinking to do . $40 isnt that big of a difference. I may have to give PH's another try.

 

[Thaibox]

Flash, a fina t-200 cycle would dominate any gains from a ph cycle anyday. You have to consider that as well.

 

[Nutri-Wrestler]

Lets look at this.

2 10ml bottles of QV enanthate: $44
2 cart finaplix-h: $75
1 conversion kit: $25 dollars
The feeling that you could beat anyones ass: Priceless

Mastercard, bringing juicers together all across the world.



P.S. The total is $144

 

[Dante B.]

The feeling that you could beat anyones ass: Priceless

And that oh so gleeful state fast in fleeting come when some 140 pound badass makes rueful the day you ever equated size with "kick-ass" abilities Not that you said such a thing, but my God the stupidity of those that make such an assumption.

That aside (somewhat on topic, and partially aside from the most recent posts), when comparing PH's (and 1-Test) to "gear", one has to compare the substance in question as to its effects. If one tasked use of 2.5 mgs of Halotestin and then used 200 mgs of 1-Test (each, per day), it would be facetious to state "this legal supplement gave me better gains as opposed to using 'real gear' ".

Likewise would it be absurd to compare the effects of 1-Test as one would have with an Anadrol cycle. So this constant comparison (pro or con) of PH's (and 'Pro-Steroids') with "gear" is a meaningless state of contrast unless one establishes the context (and that being, the substances in question [for their qualities] and the amounts used).

 

[Nutri-Wrestler]

I would probably run from a 140 pound person, im not confontational. I dunno, give me a week and ill report back

 

[Fortes]

"Have you ever tried Winny? Aside from Fina, out of everything I have tried, I have gotten the best strength response from 100winny/day. I have used it twice(the first time at 50/day)."

Okay, what I should have said is strength AND size, for from what I know about Winstrol, it does not cause tremendous increases in hypertrophy. However, 1-ad/1-test will. In fact, I am willing to be that 1-test transdermals can compete miligram per miligram with Tren transdermals. Don't believe me? Go read the results posts on Par's website.

12 lbs. in two weeks is not uncommon with a REDUCTION in bodyfat while on a 1-test gel, and tremendous strength increases come hand in hand. My wager is that winny, however good it is for cutting and strength, will not put mass on you like that.

That being said, I will confess, I have not tried Winny before, but from what I've read it's a drug that either people love or hate -

Some respond very well to it, others get nothing at all out of it, and cutting seems to be the most popular way to use it.


THE POINT BEING: 1-testosterone is a BONA-FIDE synthetic androgen. It is MUCH MORE POTENT than testosterone. And 1-AD can compare, QUALITATIVELY, with the hardest synthetic androgens when taken at the right QUANTITY. I'm just sick of PH bashers who don't even know WTF they're talking about.

Thaibox, out of curiosity and intrigue, what exactly were your strength gains from 100mg/day of Winny?

 

[Thaibox]

Couldn't say exactly due to the other things in the cycle. I ran the winny with test enan and deca, both of which I've used several times. So, I'm able to safely assume that the strength increase compared to other substances was provided by Mr. Strol. I added winny from week 5-9 and felt a considerable jump on strength from weeks 1-4 with 50mg D-bol. I also always had an incredible pump on almost all lifts. The only things I don't like about Winny is the effect it has on my joints and pre-existing injuries requiring me to always take it with deca.

 

[Fortes]

Thaibox -

When I said 600 mg. 1-AD vs. 75 mg Winny per day, I didn't mean 100 mg winny daily plus an unquantified amount of Nandrolone Decanoate and Testosterone Enanthate bi-weeky or however you took them.

600 mg 1-AD a day

Let's assume, for argument's sake, a 15% rate of conversion to 1-testosterone.

90 mg/1-test vs. 75 mg Winny daily.

Winny, according to the levator-ani test, is 6 times as anabolic as Testosterone, and is 0.6 times as androgenic.

1-Test, according to Ciba-Geigy, is up to 7 times as anabolic and I believe 2 to 3 times as androgenic as testosterone.

I still think, based on that rationale and at the proposed dosages, that the 1-AD would compete very well with if not outdo Winny qualitatively, not to mention the fact that with 1-test people don't report the same joint pain issues.