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How much does Anavar help with ligaments and tendon building?
- Thread starter tommboy
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SgtSlaughter
New member
I don't belive anavar does any such thing.
Var increases muscle creatine uptake in turn making one stronger {what I remember from researching it}. Moving more weight = making muscles larger with proper diet.
Var increases muscle creatine uptake in turn making one stronger {what I remember from researching it}. Moving more weight = making muscles larger with proper diet.
Here's nice post by KD1 from another thread. Very informative.
I read this on another board, it was quoted from some AAS website it looks like. If you type in "Anavar + Tendons" into a search engine there are several other hits. Im sure "Oxandrolone + Tendons" would produce some also.
"While injecting test increases protein synthesis by roughly 50 times, depending on dose and time, most bodybuilders forget that it will reduce collagen synthesis by more than 50% -- more like 80%, giving you the collagen synthesis rate of a senior citizen. Since collagen makes up tendons, bros are very prone to injury if they continue to lift very heavy, unless they cycle off T and let their collagen synthesis get back to normal. It's like having the skeletal muscle of a gorilla with the tendons of a very old man.
Winstrol increases collagen synthesis. It will give you bigger tendons. However, your body compensates for this by making them more brittle, weaker, and more prone to injury. I can't tell you how many bros work out anaerobically and become injured while on winstrol. Guys who lift in the 1-5 rep range while on winstrol, to baseball players who sprint all out from a stationary position -- winstrol should be the LAST drug they choose. Most of them like winstrol because they don't get the weight gain from it but it is very detrimental to bros who train for any sport anaerobically. Tendons tear easily on it.
Also, the drugs I mention increase collagen synthesis while also increasing collagen cross-linking integrity, making for a much stronger tendon.
Winstrol, on the other hand, will dramatically increase collagen syn, but ironically it decreases collagen cross-linking integrity, thus making a much weaker tendon.
You can plan a cycle of AAS which will increase collagen synthesis and skeletal muscle growth at the same time. The key is the drug(s) you choose.
Deca, Equipoise, Anavar, and Primobolan will ALL increase skeletal muscle while at the same time dramatically increase collagen syn and bone mass and density, leaving you with a substantially reduced chance of becoming injured than if you choose to use AAS like sus, cyp, or enth.
While testosterone will increase bone mass and density, even at supra-physiological levels, the result is weaker tendons due to inhibition of collagen syn.
To plan a cycle where the goal is to increase skeletal muscle mass/strength while at the same time increase joint/tendon/ligament strength, enough to keep up with the dramatic increase in skeletal muscle, you must choose drugs like Eq, Deca, Anavar, or Primo as the base of your cycle. Testosterone and its esters can be added to your cycle to keep levels within a 'normal' physiological range (ie, 100-200 mg/wk) but must not go above this. Since drugs like eq, deca, anavar and primo will reduce endogenous, natural levels of test, these levels may be maintained with exogenous test in the 100-200 mg/wk range. Test at this dose will not inhibit collagen syn, but paradoxically, will help increase it. It is when exogenous testosterone is used > 200 mg/wk that collagen syn is inhibited.
Deca @ 3 mg/kg a week(about 270 mg/wk for a 200 lb male) will increase procollagen III levels by 270% by week 2. Procollagen III is a primary indicator used to determine the rate of collagen syn. As you can see, deca is a very good drug at giving you everything you want -- an increase in collagen syn, an increase in skeletal muscle, and increases in bone mass and density. The one thing it does not give you is wood
Primobolan, @ 5 mg/kg, will increase collagen synthesis by roughly 180% -- less than deca and equipoise but still substantial.
Equipoise @ 3 mg/kg will increase procollagen III by approximately 340% -- slightly better than deca.
Oxandrolone has over a hundred studies documenting its effectiveness at treating patients needing rapid increases in collagen syn to enhance healing.
These drugs have longer half-lives than most other AAS, so this should be considered when timing your post cycle clomid use. Here they are:
Deca: 15 days Equipoise: 14 days Primobolan: 10.5 days
Anavar has a half-life of only 8 hours so it should not pose a problem.
GH is probably the most remarkable drug at increasing collagen synthesis. It increases collagen syn in a dose dependant manner -- the more you use, the more you will increase collagen syn. It has also demonstrated this ability in short and long term studies. From what I've read, hGH at 6 iu/day increased the collagen deposition rate by around 250% in damaged collagen structures. This result indicates that the increased biomechanical strength of wounds to collagen structures treated with biosynthetic human growth hormone was produced by an increased deposition of collagen in the collagen structures.
Eq, primo, anavar, and deca are all good -- they increase several biomakers of collagen syn -- ie, type III, II, I, procollagen markers. GH just seems to do so most dramatically.
Use of any of these drugs @ supra-physiological levels with a maintenance dose of test will increase collagen syn while at the same time increase skeletal muscle mass. Skeletal muscle mass gains will not be as dramatic as with large testosterone doses but you have to weigh the risk/reward basis for yourself. Also, these drugs do not satisfy the libido like testosterone, but that is not the point of this thread. It is only to demonstrate that you can increase skeletal muscle and collagen syn at the same time with certain AAS -- the decision is up to you."
I read this on another board, it was quoted from some AAS website it looks like. If you type in "Anavar + Tendons" into a search engine there are several other hits. Im sure "Oxandrolone + Tendons" would produce some also.
"While injecting test increases protein synthesis by roughly 50 times, depending on dose and time, most bodybuilders forget that it will reduce collagen synthesis by more than 50% -- more like 80%, giving you the collagen synthesis rate of a senior citizen. Since collagen makes up tendons, bros are very prone to injury if they continue to lift very heavy, unless they cycle off T and let their collagen synthesis get back to normal. It's like having the skeletal muscle of a gorilla with the tendons of a very old man.
Winstrol increases collagen synthesis. It will give you bigger tendons. However, your body compensates for this by making them more brittle, weaker, and more prone to injury. I can't tell you how many bros work out anaerobically and become injured while on winstrol. Guys who lift in the 1-5 rep range while on winstrol, to baseball players who sprint all out from a stationary position -- winstrol should be the LAST drug they choose. Most of them like winstrol because they don't get the weight gain from it but it is very detrimental to bros who train for any sport anaerobically. Tendons tear easily on it.
Also, the drugs I mention increase collagen synthesis while also increasing collagen cross-linking integrity, making for a much stronger tendon.
Winstrol, on the other hand, will dramatically increase collagen syn, but ironically it decreases collagen cross-linking integrity, thus making a much weaker tendon.
You can plan a cycle of AAS which will increase collagen synthesis and skeletal muscle growth at the same time. The key is the drug(s) you choose.
Deca, Equipoise, Anavar, and Primobolan will ALL increase skeletal muscle while at the same time dramatically increase collagen syn and bone mass and density, leaving you with a substantially reduced chance of becoming injured than if you choose to use AAS like sus, cyp, or enth.
While testosterone will increase bone mass and density, even at supra-physiological levels, the result is weaker tendons due to inhibition of collagen syn.
To plan a cycle where the goal is to increase skeletal muscle mass/strength while at the same time increase joint/tendon/ligament strength, enough to keep up with the dramatic increase in skeletal muscle, you must choose drugs like Eq, Deca, Anavar, or Primo as the base of your cycle. Testosterone and its esters can be added to your cycle to keep levels within a 'normal' physiological range (ie, 100-200 mg/wk) but must not go above this. Since drugs like eq, deca, anavar and primo will reduce endogenous, natural levels of test, these levels may be maintained with exogenous test in the 100-200 mg/wk range. Test at this dose will not inhibit collagen syn, but paradoxically, will help increase it. It is when exogenous testosterone is used > 200 mg/wk that collagen syn is inhibited.
Deca @ 3 mg/kg a week(about 270 mg/wk for a 200 lb male) will increase procollagen III levels by 270% by week 2. Procollagen III is a primary indicator used to determine the rate of collagen syn. As you can see, deca is a very good drug at giving you everything you want -- an increase in collagen syn, an increase in skeletal muscle, and increases in bone mass and density. The one thing it does not give you is wood
Primobolan, @ 5 mg/kg, will increase collagen synthesis by roughly 180% -- less than deca and equipoise but still substantial.
Equipoise @ 3 mg/kg will increase procollagen III by approximately 340% -- slightly better than deca.
Oxandrolone has over a hundred studies documenting its effectiveness at treating patients needing rapid increases in collagen syn to enhance healing.
These drugs have longer half-lives than most other AAS, so this should be considered when timing your post cycle clomid use. Here they are:
Deca: 15 days Equipoise: 14 days Primobolan: 10.5 days
Anavar has a half-life of only 8 hours so it should not pose a problem.
GH is probably the most remarkable drug at increasing collagen synthesis. It increases collagen syn in a dose dependant manner -- the more you use, the more you will increase collagen syn. It has also demonstrated this ability in short and long term studies. From what I've read, hGH at 6 iu/day increased the collagen deposition rate by around 250% in damaged collagen structures. This result indicates that the increased biomechanical strength of wounds to collagen structures treated with biosynthetic human growth hormone was produced by an increased deposition of collagen in the collagen structures.
Eq, primo, anavar, and deca are all good -- they increase several biomakers of collagen syn -- ie, type III, II, I, procollagen markers. GH just seems to do so most dramatically.
Use of any of these drugs @ supra-physiological levels with a maintenance dose of test will increase collagen syn while at the same time increase skeletal muscle mass. Skeletal muscle mass gains will not be as dramatic as with large testosterone doses but you have to weigh the risk/reward basis for yourself. Also, these drugs do not satisfy the libido like testosterone, but that is not the point of this thread. It is only to demonstrate that you can increase skeletal muscle and collagen syn at the same time with certain AAS -- the decision is up to you."
R
racoon_city
Guest
bump!
thanks a LOT bro! So much good info. It is really scaring me though now I wasn't going to use any of those compounds accept anavar at week 8 (im MPB prone). But now I just don't know what to do because I have almost been on for close to a year (but have cruised a lot at 500 mg) And have only used anavar one other time for 4 weeks. Are my tendons about to SNAP? I def. will be carefull from now on and make sure to put in anavar probably in every cycle. OH yea damn it didnt list how much anavar increases collagen synthesis!
tommboy said:
Most people who blow something out have recent pain in the area and keep training it at max intensity. Very rarely something just rips for no reason, but its usually the achey shoulder or sore elbow that ends up a tendon rupture.
So listen to your body and give your joints plenty of time to recover between hard workouts. Higher reps are much easier than lower ones, so if something is acting up, give it a workout off, then cut the weight enough to double up the reps for a couple weeks.
R
racoon_city
Guest
we are talking tendons here not jiont's.
A
Anthony Roberts
Guest
kbrkbr said:
The information in that post is incorrect. I called out the original author on his board about that, and he never replied. As far as I can tell, he made the whole thing up, numbers and all.
Neo22 said:
I guess thats supposed to be funny?
From my point of view, I will tend to believe the above material, as opposed to "I called that dude out on his post and he never responded". Unless its explained further - thats not a very good reason in itself.
If anyone has info one way or the other Id love to see it contributed on this thread.
SgtSlaughter
New member
Unless one has reputable sources or hard paper to back up their "info" or data it should be taken as a grain of salt and should be researched furthur.
A
Anthony Roberts
Guest
sgtslaughter said:Unless one has reputable sources or hard paper to back up their "info" or data it should be taken as a grain of salt and should be researched furthur.
Right. Well, simply put, I looked for research to verify the claims in that article. I put in the exact numbers and drugs into medline/pubmed and every medical search engine I could find. Nothing I saw backed up almost any of his claims.
Then I posted about it, on Steroid.com and me and about 20 members tried to find substantiation for those claims- nobody succeeded.
I posted about that experience, and how nobody seemed to be able to verify any of the information in his article...on his home board, when he was online, -and he choose not to respond.
I don't know what else to say. I tried...
SgtSlaughter
New member
I don't doubt it bro.
I take nothing as truth or fact unless I do my own research. Others should do the same, and when posting information like that as FACT they should use sources for the people that don't know any better.
I just feel bad for people that take most of what they read as truths... as we most did at one point in time in our nieve youth, ect.
I take nothing as truth or fact unless I do my own research. Others should do the same, and when posting information like that as FACT they should use sources for the people that don't know any better.
I just feel bad for people that take most of what they read as truths... as we most did at one point in time in our nieve youth, ect.
slat1
New member
I have MRI's to prove that var, deca and 5 months of GH did nothing to heal a partially torn right bicep tendon. After a year I had another MRI done and it showed a small tear was still there.
The DR who has worked with many professional athletes looked at me and told me if I wanted it to heal I needed to stop the AAS. I never told him I used any.
That is just my case though. I worked with all the top Dr's in my area on the injury too.
The DR who has worked with many professional athletes looked at me and told me if I wanted it to heal I needed to stop the AAS. I never told him I used any.
That is just my case though. I worked with all the top Dr's in my area on the injury too.
JohnnyWest
New member
slat1 said:
How is your injury now? Did it help to go natty for so long? If you don't mind my asking.
A
Anthony Roberts
Guest
No references = No credibility
IMHO
IMHO
Ulter said:I agree to some extent AR.
But we don't live in an all references culture here. I have no studies that show that tren will reduce fat and build muscle in humans. But I use it successfully.
Bingo. No proof that it does work, is not proof that it does not work.
Oxandrolone has been proven to help woulds heal quicker, and to help keep muscle on people who are healing from surgery, burns or are incapicated. In theory those are the makings for something that may prevent or heal tendon injuries. But if nobody has any proof, than its jusrt somewhat of an educated guess that it might help.
A
Anthony Roberts
Guest
Ulter said:I agree to some extent AR.
But we don't live in an all references culture here. I have no studies that show that tren will reduce fat and build muscle in humans. But I use it successfully.
Right, but thats very different. You aren't claiming that Tren will increase a specific typf of collagen by a specific amount; i.e. you aren't making claims that are not verifiable by personal experience, you are making subjective claims about Tren. The claims in the article in question can not be subjective, if they are to have any credibility. And if they are to be objective, then they need to be referenced. They are neither subjective, nor referenced- and ergo are invalid.
slat1
New member
As mentioned above. I have partially torn my right and left bicep tendons.
When one was healing I used deca for ten weeks and var for 6 weeks. I also used 2iu's of gh a day for 5 months.
The other I used nothing.
I had serious complications with the one that I used AAS and GH with. The other healed in half the time with no "supplementation".
When I used AAS it felt better but it was really in worse condition.
My Dr. looked at the MRI's and flat out told me to get off what ever I was on as it was "fucking up my arm and its recovery".
Due to that conversation I never used anything with my other arm. It has healed in half the time. No real scar tissue (as compared to the other arm) and no adema.
When one was healing I used deca for ten weeks and var for 6 weeks. I also used 2iu's of gh a day for 5 months.
The other I used nothing.
I had serious complications with the one that I used AAS and GH with. The other healed in half the time with no "supplementation".
When I used AAS it felt better but it was really in worse condition.
My Dr. looked at the MRI's and flat out told me to get off what ever I was on as it was "fucking up my arm and its recovery".
Due to that conversation I never used anything with my other arm. It has healed in half the time. No real scar tissue (as compared to the other arm) and no adema.
Agent Dana Scully
New member
Would it be wise to take Glucosamine with var or with winny?
Study that supports anavars affects on collagen synthesis:
In vivo, there are reported increases in wound breaking strength with anabolic steroid therapy, including oxandrolone. [1,5,12] During the early stages of gain in wound breaking strength of healing incisional wounds, there is increased deposition of new collagen. These studies support the notion that oxandrolone enhances the deposition of collagen in wounds by directly increasing the expression of both type III and type I procollagen mRNA. The relevance of these observations to the clinical setting may be described by the following scenario. Oxandrolone has been shown to facilitate weight gain in patients with weight loss and pressure ulcers. [7] Oxandrolone increases nitrogen retention, enhancing protein synthesis. [19] As weight is restored and protein reserves are repleted, wound closure ensues. [7] Along with this systemic response, evidence is mounting for a possible direct effect of oxandrolone on wounds. This is shown by the increased collagen cellularity and tensile strength described in vivo, [1,12] the mechanism of which may be the increased expression of collagen on the cellular level, presented here.
The full article at http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/403338_4
In vivo, there are reported increases in wound breaking strength with anabolic steroid therapy, including oxandrolone. [1,5,12] During the early stages of gain in wound breaking strength of healing incisional wounds, there is increased deposition of new collagen. These studies support the notion that oxandrolone enhances the deposition of collagen in wounds by directly increasing the expression of both type III and type I procollagen mRNA. The relevance of these observations to the clinical setting may be described by the following scenario. Oxandrolone has been shown to facilitate weight gain in patients with weight loss and pressure ulcers. [7] Oxandrolone increases nitrogen retention, enhancing protein synthesis. [19] As weight is restored and protein reserves are repleted, wound closure ensues. [7] Along with this systemic response, evidence is mounting for a possible direct effect of oxandrolone on wounds. This is shown by the increased collagen cellularity and tensile strength described in vivo, [1,12] the mechanism of which may be the increased expression of collagen on the cellular level, presented here.
The full article at http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/403338_4
^^^ur article says nothing about tendons. considering the negative impact on hdl/ldl levels from using anavar and any oral for that matter i dont think it makes any sense to use it to speed up or prevent damage to tendons when there are are other choices with much less side effects. i have to agree with anthony for once on this matter. i do agree that equi and deca do have the ability to increase collagen synthesis but to the degree it can prevent injury i think it has very little impact. someone made the comment that the pros never get hurt. are you kidding us or what? there was at least 3 top level contestants that were out of the last olympia due to some sort of injury that from what i remember had to do with tendons. ur tendons are just not going to keep up with the type of strength gains you can make using aas unless maybe you run high doses of equi and gh alone and use light weight high rep work for about a year. then maybe just maybe your tendosn will have kept pace with your strenth gains. anavar is a great drug, one of the best orals as far as im concerned, but to use it for tendon strenth is not a good idea to put it mildly. as far as its use for children has nothing to do with its ability to increase tendon strenth and evrything to do with its ability NOT to fuse growth plates. just my 2 cc's....................
I only just saw this reply. Mate how does it say nothing about tendons? It expresses that oxandrolone increases collagen synthesis. Collagen synthesis is vital in tendon repair.
Let me go through this article, as always medical publications are not the most clear-cut publications that can be speed read, as I'm sure you did.
Okay this study involved human fibroblasts grown on both plastic and collagen. Just to give you wikipedia's definition of a fibroblast:
'A fibroblast is a type of cell that synthesizes the extracellular matrix and collagen, the structural framework (stroma) for animal tissues, and play a critical role in wound healing. They are the most common cells of connective tissue in animals.'
So as they are the most common cells in connective tissue we can see this study is relevant to tendons. Alright to proceed, and this is where you might have thought the article had no merit, where the article discusses fibroblasts grown on plastic-
'Oxandrolone has no effect upon the expression of procollagen types I and III mRNA in human dermal fibroblasts growing on plastic.' (these procollagen mRNAs' are precursors to collagen synthesis) but the article goes onto say that fibroblasts on plastic have procollagen mRNA levels that are 'near maximal levels' anyway. This is because 'Fibroblasts growing on plastic have characteristics like fibroblasts during early wound healing, when these cells are associated with an environment rich in fibrin and serum.' So because plastic represents an environment in the early stages of a wound eg:tear to a tendon, oxandrolone supplementation will not be useful because collagen synthesis apears to be at maximal levels anyway.
But, in the fibroblasts grown on collagen
'The addition of oxandrolone to fibroblasts growing on collagen enhances the expression of procollagen mRNA to levels equivalent to that of fibroblasts maintained on plastic. The expression of type III procollagen mRNA is stimulated 11-fold by oxandrolone in fibroblasts grown on collagen.' So if fibroblasts grown on plastic exert near maximal collagen synthesis{procollagen mRNA levels}(representing the early stages of a wound when collagen synthesis is most needed) and fibroblasts grown on collagen (representing tendon or tissue in its normal or post damage state, not a fibrin and serum rich environment as in early stages of wound) exposed to oxandrolone show procollagen mRNA levels the equivalent to fibroblasts grown on platic, then it is clear that oxandrolone can help strengthen connective tissue. Although it will have no effect on a tear in early stages it will increase collagen synthesis at any other time.
Also here is another point put forward by the study speculating on the differences between the fibroblasts on plastic ad collagen
'Anabolic steroids are derived from a chemical modification of testosterone and exert their effect by binding to androgen receptors. The cell surface of dermal fibroblasts contains a high density of these receptors.[23]The binding of anabolic steroid to these receptors increases anabolic activity, including the synthesis of proteins. One possibility is that fibroblasts growing on plastic make more collagen, but express fewer anabolic steroid receptors on their surface compared to fibroblasts growing on collagen. Fibroblasts growing on collagen synthesize less collagen and express more anabolic steroid receptors. Hence, fibroblasts growing on plastic are less responsive to anabolic steroids in comparison to the same cells growing on collagen. By Northern plot analysis, oxandrolone enhances the expression of mRNA specific for a1(I) and a1(III) procollagen chains, in fibroblasts residing on a collagen matrix.'
I'm just putting forward what I found in that publication, I'm sure others can come forward and shed some more light on it more accurately than i can. but i think simply saying 'ur article says nothing about tendons' is pretty ignorant, but if you glanced at the article for two-seconds is understandable.
See the link for this article on my last post.
Also check out:
Nutrition and wound healing - Google Books
Scroll down to the header entitled 'Wound Healing Properties'
Cheers
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