Please Scroll Down to See Forums Below I'm curious how many here are considering it. I'm mean theres a lot of info on the net right now and I know if I had access to computer 10 years ago and found this sight or other sites like it I would have gone through with it back then. Its has to be tempting even for the extreme lawful people.
How many here are on the bubble of using juice?
- Thread starter Jabs
- Start date
BigDdaGanjalist
New member
I've got a little stockpile growing...
Not gonna start anything until I put on another 15lbs. -13%bf
haven't gained ANYTHING in my last couple of routine changes, hopefully this change in routine will break my plateau.
Not gonna start anything until I put on another 15lbs. -13%bf
haven't gained ANYTHING in my last couple of routine changes, hopefully this change in routine will break my plateau.
the nature boy
New member
I am.
kingslender
New member
Everyone has to make there own choice-nothing wrong with juicers
I think about it a lot but probably will never take the plunge.
I got a lot to live for
I think about it a lot but probably will never take the plunge.
I got a lot to live for
USMC_Devildog
New member
Not experienced Enough
I started lifting at age 12 and have been for almost 7 years. I'm at the prime age for gaining. There were times when I felt I was going no where with my training. To counter this I started asking people who were experienced enough to give me suggestions. I also did a lot of reading. I never read muscle mags, except for Ironman Magazine. Any time I'm unhappy with anything (training....etc) it's obviously a problem that you're going to have to deal with. As for me, the thought of using juice has never crossed my mind once. I've noticed that a lot of pro bodybuilders don't live very long. I believe it's because of steroid use. I mean these guys are packed with muscle and most of the time maintain healthy body fat levels (I know there are some who don't.....Lee Priest ring a bell?). If these guys train almost every day and eat healthy, shouldn't be able to live a long time? Not always so. Like at the Mentzer brothers. I haven't read anything that states that their deaths were caused from the after effects of juice, but it's a good probability. Putting any unnatural substance in the body just because you're not making any gains wouldn't be a good idea, in my opinon. Healthwise.....If I was more concerned with my health I would and am staying away from such drugs. Just got to remember the reason why you're training. For me it's health first and appearance last. Shouldn't be the other way around, just my 2 cents. If you reach a plateau, it's a problem you'll have to solve. And that's the complexity of life. You will always have some kind of problem to overcome. And when you overcome it, you'll feel better about yourself. You'll be much more successful with anything you do.
I started lifting at age 12 and have been for almost 7 years. I'm at the prime age for gaining. There were times when I felt I was going no where with my training. To counter this I started asking people who were experienced enough to give me suggestions. I also did a lot of reading. I never read muscle mags, except for Ironman Magazine. Any time I'm unhappy with anything (training....etc) it's obviously a problem that you're going to have to deal with. As for me, the thought of using juice has never crossed my mind once. I've noticed that a lot of pro bodybuilders don't live very long. I believe it's because of steroid use. I mean these guys are packed with muscle and most of the time maintain healthy body fat levels (I know there are some who don't.....Lee Priest ring a bell?). If these guys train almost every day and eat healthy, shouldn't be able to live a long time? Not always so. Like at the Mentzer brothers. I haven't read anything that states that their deaths were caused from the after effects of juice, but it's a good probability. Putting any unnatural substance in the body just because you're not making any gains wouldn't be a good idea, in my opinon. Healthwise.....If I was more concerned with my health I would and am staying away from such drugs. Just got to remember the reason why you're training. For me it's health first and appearance last. Shouldn't be the other way around, just my 2 cents. If you reach a plateau, it's a problem you'll have to solve. And that's the complexity of life. You will always have some kind of problem to overcome. And when you overcome it, you'll feel better about yourself. You'll be much more successful with anything you do.
MarshallPenniford
New member
Out of curiosity, why would you do something that you know is so bad for you? Are you that unhappy with the way you look?
Most men and women prefer the look of a non-freaky physique. If you're doing it to feel stronger / tougher or whatever you want to call it, just remember that a handgun in the hands of a 100lb 15 year old will take you out in 2 secs flat. If your an olympic powerlifter or WSM competitor, maybe, otherwise, I just don't get it. You can build a great physique naturally, why bother with drugs?
Don't get me wrong, if they weren't unhealthy, I'd use them. But only to a certain point -- as a shortcut. I'll get there naturally though, it's just going to take longer.
Most men and women prefer the look of a non-freaky physique. If you're doing it to feel stronger / tougher or whatever you want to call it, just remember that a handgun in the hands of a 100lb 15 year old will take you out in 2 secs flat. If your an olympic powerlifter or WSM competitor, maybe, otherwise, I just don't get it. You can build a great physique naturally, why bother with drugs?
Don't get me wrong, if they weren't unhealthy, I'd use them. But only to a certain point -- as a shortcut. I'll get there naturally though, it's just going to take longer.
Re: Not experienced Enough
Just out of curiousity, what is unnatural about testosterone?
As for the bubble question... I just broke the bubble a few weeks ago. I have to say that steroids are the greatest thing ever invented. I rather like them. I've put on a little size in the last three weeks, but the good size gains should start coming in another week or two. They're really pretty cool. I'd advise everyone to try them once or twice. Of course, I'd advise eveyone to try just about anything once or twice.
USMC_Devildog said:
Just out of curiousity, what is unnatural about testosterone?
As for the bubble question... I just broke the bubble a few weeks ago. I have to say that steroids are the greatest thing ever invented. I rather like them. I've put on a little size in the last three weeks, but the good size gains should start coming in another week or two. They're really pretty cool. I'd advise everyone to try them once or twice. Of course, I'd advise eveyone to try just about anything once or twice.
gymtime
New member
USMC and Marshall - Without turning this thread into a steroid debate, steroids, in and of themselves are niether good nor bad for anyone. They are like any other drug. They can be abused or used intelligently. Very few steroid users become what you see in magazines. But I completely agree with you about those who do, it's unhealthy.
Is it a shortcut? Maybe. But I think those who use steroids intelligently are not lazy people. And, to be honest, I don't believe anyone who says they workout purely for health. If that were the case, there'd be no gyms. The vast majority of people workout to look better, whether they care to admit it or not. Is that bad? Not to me. Whatever gets you in the gym.
I think if you've put in the years of training and diet, you deserve to cheat a little, long as you're smart about it.
Is it a shortcut? Maybe. But I think those who use steroids intelligently are not lazy people. And, to be honest, I don't believe anyone who says they workout purely for health. If that were the case, there'd be no gyms. The vast majority of people workout to look better, whether they care to admit it or not. Is that bad? Not to me. Whatever gets you in the gym.
I think if you've put in the years of training and diet, you deserve to cheat a little, long as you're smart about it.
A blanket statement like that is not an educated one. Some are really bad for you but there are some that have very little if any side affects. My own opinion is this, using steroids at high dosage will do damage to you, using non-harsh steroids at a low dosage is as safe as anything else. I had a well educated doc tell me booz is harsher to the body than a lot of steroids. Plus a lot of adult men are and have been doing shots of test to become healthier. I also respect someones choice of not doing them there are hazards like the law or an infection and so on but the media and other sources have know idea what they are talking about and lose on the potential benefits of them.
MarshallPenniford
New member
Jabs said:
Jabs, I assume you are referring to my question of wanting to do something that's obviously bad for you. I don't think that there is any question in the medical community that steroids have side effects and are potentially harmful to your health, even when used for medicinal purposes. Even testosterone therapy has to be done very carefully, but that's a whole different issue all together. So, please tell me how my opinion is an uneducated one.
Potential benefits? I assume you mean bigger size than can be acheived naturally. If you can show me any studies showing them as beneficial to one's health I would like to see it. Then I'll pick up a cycle myself maybe. And no, booze is not as harmful if you have a glass of wine a day vs. a shot of d-bol.
BTW, you started the thread about being on the "bubble", it sounds like you have your mind clear about the whole issue. Where's the indecision?
First off the post came about because I spent a lot of time over on the anabolic board and started to check out and spend some time over on this forum. I started to think about all the information on anabolics just a click away. For me the temptation would've been overwhelming especially when I was in high school. I was curious about other people in this forum because I guess a lot of them haven't ventured into that relm yet. As for me calling your statement uneducated i stand behind that but it might have sounded a little harsh and I didn't mean it too. You said taking d-bol vs a shot of red wine is no comparison I disagree. How about doing 400mg primo or deca or any other mild toxic steroid compared to shot of vodka. My point being is that if you say all steroids are harmful I find that an uneducated statement I cannot see it any other way. All steroids are not created the same. If you do some research I think your point of view might change. I'm not saying you should do them but a better understanding of them wouldn't hurt.
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MarshallPenniford
New member
Jabs, that's cool man. Don't worry about sounding harsh. All I was saying was that from my point of view - which is educated - is that I haven't seen the data that you are suggesting. Can you point me in the direction of some links of studies showing limited use of steroids to be safe?
I get your point with the booze thing, but I think you meant <B>glass</B> of vodka vs. glass of wine. Wouldn't a shot of vodka have the same effect on the liver as a glass of wine?
Sorry to everyone else if this is turning into a steroid / no-steroid debate. I'm just really interested in the idea that steroids can be considered harmless.
I get your point with the booze thing, but I think you meant <B>glass</B> of vodka vs. glass of wine. Wouldn't a shot of vodka have the same effect on the liver as a glass of wine?
Sorry to everyone else if this is turning into a steroid / no-steroid debate. I'm just really interested in the idea that steroids can be considered harmless.
I like the way your thinking and I guess I'll end it by saying this, there is a lot of solid information on some steroids being safe and even more safe than most recreational drugs. Most "docs" in the medical community just recently started to believe that steroids do indeed can increase muscle. The media and the medical community are way behind on there info on steroids. You used d-bol as your example for steroid in your argument. I agree d-bol is harsher to your liver than one drink of alchohol but then again you shouldn't be doing d-bol either. Its a tab that is very popular but its effects are short term mostly water weight and in my opinion a waste of money but a lot of people like the temp strength gains. There is a lot safer drugs you could use instead of providing an example as harsh as d-bol. Even so most people using d-bol report very little side affects common ones reported are moon face from the water weight and acne. Both of which return to normal after use. Most steroids problems occur when high dosage or long term use is in play. There is no doubt cronic use of anything will lead to health problems but I'm not talking about abuseing anything. Anybody in ther teens shouldn't use steroids because they don't need elevated test levels because they already have high test levels and they haven't finished growing yet. I could go on and on but your mind is made up already and I respect that but there are a lot of uses of steroids out side the bodybuilding community and more so outside the United States My father uses test prescribe by a doctor and it has worked well for a lot of mental and physical reasons. The only thing they monitor is his high blood pressure. A lot of men past forty are trying this treatement and its becoming more and more frequent. A person with the right knowledge can use mild doses of steroids for short peroids of time safely.
USMC_Devildog
New member
Re: Re: Not experienced Enough
Nothing is unnatural about testoserone. I'm talking about steroids, which increase the amount of testoserone. Let me ask you this, there isn't a point in arguing over this one. Eventually all of us will or already have reached our primes. What I mean by prime is the stage where muscle growth is at its best. Normally around the late teens to the early twenties. This is all because all of our testoserone levels. After a few years the level of testoserone will decline. Now if you took steroids, you would be increasing the amount of testoserone in your body and thus, you've got great strength gains, great muscle gains, roid rage, acne, a small sperm count...and other stuff. The level of testoserone in your body given to you from steroids is NOT natural. That's what I meant by unnatural.
Grizzly said:
Nothing is unnatural about testoserone. I'm talking about steroids, which increase the amount of testoserone. Let me ask you this, there isn't a point in arguing over this one. Eventually all of us will or already have reached our primes. What I mean by prime is the stage where muscle growth is at its best. Normally around the late teens to the early twenties. This is all because all of our testoserone levels. After a few years the level of testoserone will decline. Now if you took steroids, you would be increasing the amount of testoserone in your body and thus, you've got great strength gains, great muscle gains, roid rage, acne, a small sperm count...and other stuff. The level of testoserone in your body given to you from steroids is NOT natural. That's what I meant by unnatural.
MarshallPenniford
New member
Jabs - Your statement about my mind being made up is completely wrong. I think I made it clear that I would think about using them myself if I felt it to be safe. Mild doses would be perfect since I have no desire to look freakish -- I would just use them as a sortcut to getting where I'll probably get anyway.
Again, please show me some data showing they are safe in mild doses. Testosterone therapy is not the same as recreational steroid use. I'm assuming your dad has low test levels, which by the way, would fall even lower if he were to stop the gel / patch / injection cycle.
As USMC stated, testosterone is neither healthy nor a natural thing to pump into an otherwise healthy endocrine system.
Again, please show me some data showing they are safe in mild doses. Testosterone therapy is not the same as recreational steroid use. I'm assuming your dad has low test levels, which by the way, would fall even lower if he were to stop the gel / patch / injection cycle.
As USMC stated, testosterone is neither healthy nor a natural thing to pump into an otherwise healthy endocrine system.
USMC_Devildog
New member
No Offense
I hope I have not offended any juicers in here. I'm not saying that oh god you guys are taking the easy way out......ah you're cheaters.....blah blah. I've basically stated the reasons why I wouldn't use them. I don't recommend anyone to do them, but if you guys are juicing and feel that you guys are damaging yourselves, then by all means preach what you have learned. You guys preach the ways to use anabolic substances with your training and I preach natural ways of training. Two both have their place in weight lifting.
I hope I have not offended any juicers in here. I'm not saying that oh god you guys are taking the easy way out......ah you're cheaters.....blah blah. I've basically stated the reasons why I wouldn't use them. I don't recommend anyone to do them, but if you guys are juicing and feel that you guys are damaging yourselves, then by all means preach what you have learned. You guys preach the ways to use anabolic substances with your training and I preach natural ways of training. Two both have their place in weight lifting.
Rockafella Skank
New member
Hmmm ... the debate rages on.
To juice or not to juice ... that is the question. As a libertarian, i believe that if someone chooses to ingest, smoke or inject something into his or her own body is a matter of personal and social responsibility. Does it hurt anyone other than the person making the choice? No? Then there's no issue.
As for me, I choose not to use nor will I in the future. Which is not to say that I haven't (I played a little football in college). In reading this thread, I find myself in agreement with most everyone. Is it true that low level doses of junk (I hear the kids are calling it "gear," these days) for short periods are relatively safe, like so many drugs legal and otherwise? Probably. Are there serious risks associated with using anabolics? Probably.
But mostly I find myself in agreement with MarshallP for one reason alone: the research. Where is the data based on long term, scientific research using generally accepted methodologies? A vast majority of the information that's available out there is from people who report on their own experimentation. While I admit that the information I read now on the subject is 1000 times better than the information I had when I used 15 years ago, there's still something that smacks of it being incomplete. (In fairness, it's worth mentioning that I use creatine and there are no long term studies for this, either.)
Am I a hypocrite? Maybe ... time will tell. The difference is that I felt the information I uncovered about creatine was scientifically reliable and accurate. With junk, I don't. The bottom line here, like with so many other things, is education and choice. Use one to make the other wisely.
To juice or not to juice ... that is the question. As a libertarian, i believe that if someone chooses to ingest, smoke or inject something into his or her own body is a matter of personal and social responsibility. Does it hurt anyone other than the person making the choice? No? Then there's no issue.
As for me, I choose not to use nor will I in the future. Which is not to say that I haven't (I played a little football in college). In reading this thread, I find myself in agreement with most everyone. Is it true that low level doses of junk (I hear the kids are calling it "gear," these days) for short periods are relatively safe, like so many drugs legal and otherwise? Probably. Are there serious risks associated with using anabolics? Probably.
But mostly I find myself in agreement with MarshallP for one reason alone: the research. Where is the data based on long term, scientific research using generally accepted methodologies? A vast majority of the information that's available out there is from people who report on their own experimentation. While I admit that the information I read now on the subject is 1000 times better than the information I had when I used 15 years ago, there's still something that smacks of it being incomplete. (In fairness, it's worth mentioning that I use creatine and there are no long term studies for this, either.)
Am I a hypocrite? Maybe ... time will tell. The difference is that I felt the information I uncovered about creatine was scientifically reliable and accurate. With junk, I don't. The bottom line here, like with so many other things, is education and choice. Use one to make the other wisely.
I like the way everbody is debating both arguments have merit to them I just believe there is a safe recreational way to use steroids for bodybuilding. Like all things they can be abused and I would say high percentage abuse them but if you keep your respect about them you'll run into few problems.
jabs
jabs
USMC_Devildog
New member
Only One Way To Find Out
Well Jabs,
I do not encourage steroid use, but I wish you luck if you decide to use them. Becareful bro.
Well Jabs,
I do not encourage steroid use, but I wish you luck if you decide to use them. Becareful bro.
MarshallPenniford
New member
Jabs - Again I share USMC's sentiments and wish you luck if you decide to use them, but be careful. I would suggest that the reason so many steroid users end up "abusing" them is that they continue to be unsatisfied with there physique or levels of strength even after anabolics. I hope you don't fall into this trap.
On the other hand, you still haven't provided me with any studies showing mild doses to be safe. Everything I'm finding shows that even mild doses can have strong negative side effects.
Please point me to your info. I'm interested in reading about this stuff!!!
On the other hand, you still haven't provided me with any studies showing mild doses to be safe. Everything I'm finding shows that even mild doses can have strong negative side effects.
Please point me to your info. I'm interested in reading about this stuff!!!
Dean Kuntz
New member
Yes I'd like to juice but I don't want to start kissing ass for it.
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