How far do you go down with St. Leg Dead Lift? Why?

[cwc73]

I have heard people say stop on the toes, go past the toes (both require the block), and I have heard some say to go mid-shin.

The mid shin is the only one I have heard a reason for. Whoever said that if you go past mid shin you are just using your back.

So what is it guys? And Gals?

K for help

 

[Illuminati]

i wouldn't reccommend going beyond the mid shin mark. any lower, and you start rounding your back, and this could lead to some serious back issues.

 

[casualbb]

I'd say go as low as you can while keeping a straight back.

I used to be very inflexible, and I would only go down as far as mid-shins (about where the bar is when the 45's are loaded on, resting on the ground)

Now I'm far more flexible, and I do them on a block and go down to hands touching tops of feet.

 

[supreme]

The straight-leg deadlift can be hard on the lumbar spine, especially the ligaments if you round the low back. When the hams cannot or will not stretch people often develop hyper mobility in the lumbar spine to compensate. That's why the sit & reach test is an invalid test of hamstring flexibility and the traditional palms to the floor is a horrible stretch.

I prefer to use the bent-knee or Romanian style deadlift for it is safer and it works the whole posterior kinetic chain of the spinal erectors, glutes & hams. You cannot properly activate the glutes in a stiff leg deadlift for 80% of the glute fibers insert to the IT band and you need between 15 & 20 degrees of knee flexion to create tension in the ITB thus activating the glutes to form a large anchor for the movement.

S

 

[ghettostudmuffin]

I have done some stiff-legged deadlifting, and for pure posterior strengthening and developement I agree with supreme that romanian's are both safer and superior for developing the glutes, hams and erectors.

 

[cwc73]

What is the difference in SL and Romanian? I thought they were the same. A link to a video would be helpful. I will probably switch because my lower back was absolutly killing me this morning during PT to the point where I stopped my run and strecthed.

 

[wnt2bBeast]

you dont need a block for stiff legged..you should be able to do them off the floor...

 

[theironclan]

i wouldn't reccommend going beyond the mid shin mark. any lower, and you start rounding your back, and this could lead to some serious back issues.

I agree!

 

[Quadsweeps Sister]

you dont need a block for stiff legged..you should be able to do them off the floor...

I'll agree as well. This is a movement that requires some mastery as it can cause some serious problems if done carelessly or incorrectly. Try some of the following ideas:

Warm-up sufficiently! Pick the weight up with a bent knee if coming off the floor (at first). If coming out of a rack set-up you can walk it out. Take the weight down slowly as you are learning. Its a movement where you must be somewhat tight in your core and flat backed. As you lower the weight down - push your butt backwards so you are counter-balancing the descent of the weight. You'll be able to keep you legs straighter if you do. Just remember to have control and if the pull behind the knees gets too bad, bend them a little bit. Just remember, its not like a deadlift - your not really working your back per se as your hams are the focus. Good luck!
__________________
Mythicwrld

"We deceive ourselves when we fancy that only weakness needs support. Strength needs it far more."

 

[Madcow2]

I've had a lot of luck with the Romanian variety.

I remember reading the original issue of Weightlifting USA where Nicu Vlad demonstrated the exercise at the US training center. Here's an old excerpt and pics: http://jva.ontariostrongman.ca/RL.htm. I was doing a similar variation at the time but modified mine a bit to match Nicu's since he's one of my all time favorite lifters. Such amazing flexability, strength and technique - watching this guy lift was like a Greek statue in effortless action. I believe this was the same visit (around 1990) where he also posted a 42" vertical in heavy OL shoes with no warm up. I actually got a chance to see him up close at the Atlanta games just before he retired. After all those years he still nailed a bronze.

 

[anthrax]

Madcow2,

I thought the shoulder should remain behind the bar (not the case here )

 

[Madcow2]

The Romanian deadlift originated as an assistance lift for Olympic lifters. In the clean/snatch your shoulders should be over the bar. Some will pull with their shoulders ahead of the bar at the starting position. The reason for this is that the purpose of the first pull (from the floor) is to setup the bar most advantageously for a lifter's second pull (roughly from just above knee level) where the bar is maximally accelerated. The need for maximum power in the second pull creates some differences in the way the clean/snatch is pulled vs. a pure deadlift.

 

[billnc]

I place a 2"x2" under my toes. This gives a prestretch to the calves. When you do those you can only go to midshin while throwing butt out instead of rounding back.

I find this works ham great.

 

[Steve The Bluesman]

I'd say go as low as you can while keeping a straight back.

I used to be very inflexible, and I would only go down as far as mid-shins (about where the bar is when the 45's are loaded on, resting on the ground)

Now I'm far more flexible, and I do them on a block and go down to hands touching tops of feet.

That sounds right. It depends on your flexibility. I do my SLDL's with a slight knee bend - and of my deepest reps I can hit the top of my sneakers - but my head is up and back straight so that I can see the top of my ass in the mirror when I am at the bottom of the rep.

You can get really fucked up if you go heavy w/sldl's and have bad form.


Bluesman

 

[wnt2bBeast]

That sounds right. It depends on your flexibility. I do my SLDL's with a slight knee bend - and of my deepest reps I can hit the top of my sneakers - but my head is up and back straight so that I can see the top of my ass in the mirror when I am at the bottom of the rep.

You can get really fucked up if you go heavy w/sldl's and have bad form.


Bluesman

thats a great way to pop some vertebrae as well as separate your hammy from the bone..

you will never ever be in that position for any kind of lift or any type of sport..now if youre doing these with 30% of your max in that style thats fine ( but i dont see the point)

 

[harhar]

I've seen this guy doing SLDL and rounding the lower back like crazy (think of the hands to ground stretch from standing position). He was doing like 245 and grunting like crazy. After each set, he would walk around like he's really badass... I felt sorry for him.

 

[Kane Fan]

I've always been told go down until you feel something of a stretch in your hammstrings and then pull up

 

[cwc73]

I tried RDL tonight, but my back burnt like hell. I didn't go down very far,the weight was light, and I thought I kept a straight back.

 

[supreme]

If you do decide to do stiff-leg or Russian deadlifts as they are also known, you definately don't want to do them off a block. If you have above average flexibility and the plates hit the floor before you max out the decent, then use smaller diameter plates and widen your grip on the bar. it will increase your ROM while allowing you to maintain a tight postion.

You can do Romanian deadlifts with a rounded low back BUT you must lighten the weight to something you can use for 20-25 reps, for with a rouded low back you stress the ligamentous system. Ligamnets can and must hypertrophy to protect the spine but the load must be gradual. If you read the book Spinal Engine by Serge Gracovetsky, he shows by mathematical modeling that the ligaments of the spine must hypertrophy overtime and they aid is supporting the vertebrae as well as distributing forces amongst the muscular system or the weights used in Olympic lifting (and probably powerlifting too!) would pulverize the spine into shattered tissue fragments.

It is good for the average person and most athletes to cycle in some "natural" i.e. rounded back deadlifts with lighter weights for outside of the gym most people do adopt a "natural" postion for lifting objects. It is usually only in the gym when we are focused on training that we concentrate and use a tight lordotic curve etc.- at least some of us any way (The rest all or will make large contributions to the orthopedics BMW fund!)

S

 

[anthrax]

It is good for the average person and most athletes to cycle in some "natural" i.e. rounded back deadlifts with lighter weights for outside of the gym most people to do adopt a "natural" postion for lifting objects. It is usually only in the gym when we are focused on training that we concentrate and use a tight lordotic curve etc.- at least some of us any way (The rest all or will make large contributions to the orthopedics BMW fund!)

S

So if we want to take something which is on the floor (from one sock in the morning to a light parcel) it is better to do so with almost straight legs and rounded back so that we can streghten the spine ligaments w/o putting too much stress on them ?

 

[Growth&Courage]

I'd say however low or high, do it until you feel the stretch keeping your form 100% good and relatively safe.

 

[supreme]

Well, you would not want to lock your knees & intentionally round the back to pick up your socks; but assuming the "natural" alignment you use at home for a few light sets in the gym can help- ligaments will hypertrophy over time with a tight lifting posture as well as with a natural posture. Its that most back injury cases I see occur outside the gym with a loose, natural posture and not a tight lifting one. So I have to prescribe exercises that will strengthen their daily posture and not just wehat they do in the gym

S

 

[b fold the truth]

Do every variation that you can. Go light and EXTREMELY deep and then you can go heavy and go till you come near losing your arch.

B True