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hate to break it to you but drugs dont fix anything, they simply mask symptoms.
Are you still taking propecia?
It totally jacks up your free test.
How does an AI work to get rid of water retention?
- Thread starter gmaury
- Start date
hate to break it to you but drugs dont fix anything, they simply mask symptoms.
Are you still taking propecia?
It totally jacks up your free test.
I don't think you dispelled anything. So no need to worry cause you broke nothing new to me.
I had already stopped taking Propecia for over a year. And I started getting really bad symptoms. In December I found out I am dealing with Post finasteride syndrome.
I guess I should be clearer. I'm aware of the evils of pharmaceuticals. Believe me. I rue the day i used it to keep my hair.
Propecia was the first Rx I ever had, outside of pain meds for surgery. The reason why I'm here is for help managing the estrogen and water from taking Clomid. The Clomid was Rx to me in order to deal with my secondary hypogonadism caused by the injury to my 5-alpha reductase enzyme. It is a treatment protocol that I am on by one of 6 US doctors that deal with this.
I really appreciate you taking the time to respond, but it is not a little insulting to get a condescending answer with super obvious information based on erroneous assumptions.
Again i am not trying to be rude. I don't hate to break it to you with sincere reflection.
I simply need help managing estrogen and I guess the ancillary symptoms of water gain from experts, which you all happen to be.
Sent from my HAM radio up in low orbit.
I had already stopped taking Propecia for over a year. And I started getting really bad symptoms. In December I found out I am dealing with Post finasteride syndrome.
I guess I should be clearer. I'm aware of the evils of pharmaceuticals. Believe me. I rue the day i used it to keep my hair.
Propecia was the first Rx I ever had, outside of pain meds for surgery. The reason why I'm here is for help managing the estrogen and water from taking Clomid. The Clomid was Rx to me in order to deal with my secondary hypogonadism caused by the injury to my 5-alpha reductase enzyme. It is a treatment protocol that I am on by one of 6 US doctors that deal with this.
I really appreciate you taking the time to respond, but it is not a little insulting to get a condescending answer with super obvious information based on erroneous assumptions.
Again i am not trying to be rude. I don't hate to break it to you with sincere reflection.
I simply need help managing estrogen and I guess the ancillary symptoms of water gain from experts, which you all happen to be.
Sent from my HAM radio up in low orbit.
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So your doc is one of only 6 in the country that deals with your issue so he must be awesome, why not just listen to him. If your only goal is to control estrogen then follow his advice and take the adex.
Im really not a fan of the passive aggressive types who come here with little knowledge about what they are doing and ask for advice even though they already have firmly entrenched in their mind what they want to hear and then they get pissy when they dont hear it and assumptions are made about someones condition because that someone didnt have the decency to take the time and explain the whole situation.
Every post you have made you have been doling out little tidbits of information about your scenario and you have the nerve to insult people for making assumptions? People are forced to make assumptions because you have the lack of decency to fill people in. You come here asking for people to give up their free time explaining stuff to you that you dont want to hear and criticize them.
You clearly like the clomid but not the estrogen, you do realize that clomid is a form of estrogen dont you? And that it may be causing the labs to show high and causing all your E related sides? Taking A dex will reduce the amount of E your body converts from test but it wont do anything to clomid which is likely the problem and not really natural E. A high normal T level is likely not the cause of E as high as yours. But of course your doc is a specialist so he would know all that.
Why dont you just saddle back up to the prescription trough, that you stated you hate, but clearly are a slave too, and just keep blindly taking what the doc is doling out. Im sure he has a beemer to pay for and kids to put through ivy league college.
No sense editing your posts, I can see all versions.
I stand by my initial statement, get off the clomid!!
Your clearly in a state of denial and are looking to take one product to counteract another and its a never ending spiral of addressing one side affect and adding another.
Put aside your ego and preconceived notions for a minute and hear me out.
Propecia is a 5α-reductase inhibitor which means it will prevent testosterone from converting to DHT. This lack of DHT in your body is what caused all your initial problems and finasteride is notorious for having nasty side effects that can last months and even years after use is discontinued, which you have now experienced first hand.
So, what does the doctor do for you? He prescribes clomid to try and offset the negative effects of finasteride but lets consider why clomid seems to be helping you to some degree. Clomid is in essence a weak estrogen that will attach to the E receptor without activating it the same way true E will. This has the effect of preventing damage from high estrogen but also throws off the HPTA and makes the body think E levels are lower than they are which in turn causes the body to increase test production.
So, the benefits you are getting from clomid is increased testosterone which is helping to offset your mood but has the negative effect of being an estrogen.
Now the doc wants to add adex to the mix, another enzyme inhibitor to prevent T from converting E in an effort to control your high E levels. The problem with this approach is that your test levels of 800ish are not high enough to cause an E level of 79 so this tells me the E test is actually reading the clomid as E. The amount of test converting to E in your body is pretty small. Much of your E is the clomid itself and another good chunk is being produced in adipose tissue so adex may be enough to to get E down on the lab test BUT it will only be hampering natural E and wont affect the clomid. As mentioned above clomid is a wek estrogen, binds to receptor without activating it so you have to ask yourself, what happens if I kill natural E and at the same time block the E receptor with clomid???
My guess is you will start to suffer side effects of low E and just add to your problems.
If testosterone is whats really helping you feel better then the solution should be simple, get off the damn clomid! Start taking testosterone and adex to control estrogen. Alternatively I would consider using HCG instead of clomid to spur on more test production so you get the test boost without the nasty clomid sides.
Yes, adipose tissue will produce estrogen and anastrozole wont do anything about that. Thats part of my point that I dont think adex (in combination with clomid) is going to be the answer to your problem.
Ive laid out in simple terms above what appears to be happening and what I would do to address it. HCG to increase natural test production would likely be the best bet. It wont shut down testis like taking test would but it will still have a suppressive effect on pituitary. You may need a small dose of adex while on hcg but remember it will only affect estrogen produced from test but at least at that point your dealing with real estrogen and not some lab number thrown off by the consumption of estrogen (ie clomid).
Consider taking DIM and calcium D glucarate to help metabolize estrogen naturally as well.
Thanks so much. Eternally grateful.
I'll talk to him about trying HCG, but I may have to just do my own thing I guess.
by the way, after adding anastrazole for just 1 week I've dropped 7lbs of water and I feel much much better, compared to before.
So like you said the Clomid gave me a slight improvement because of Test increase, but then I needed to manage E.
I want to drop my bodyfat % in order to be able to get in better health but it is like a viscous cycle: too high bf → aromatization → too much estrogen → can't lose bodyfat.
What do you suggest be the best approach to getting out of this cycle? Through all of this I got a little soft. Havne't really lifted hard in 6 months, but I haven't really lost muscle.
I'll talk to him about trying HCG, but I may have to just do my own thing I guess.
by the way, after adding anastrazole for just 1 week I've dropped 7lbs of water and I feel much much better, compared to before.
So like you said the Clomid gave me a slight improvement because of Test increase, but then I needed to manage E.
I want to drop my bodyfat % in order to be able to get in better health but it is like a viscous cycle: too high bf → aromatization → too much estrogen → can't lose bodyfat.
What do you suggest be the best approach to getting out of this cycle? Through all of this I got a little soft. Havne't really lifted hard in 6 months, but I haven't really lost muscle.
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Its going to take time for the side effect of the propecia to wear off. This could be months or in extreme cases years.
Any pharmaceutical route is going to have negatives.
HCG will be the least suppressive and will take some trial and error on dosing.
testosterone would be the next step, likely in conjunction with some HCG to prevent testicular atrophy.
Both of the above may require a little adex to control estrogen but you woul need labs to keep on top of it and get things dialed in.
As mentioned DIM and calcium D glucarate will help quite a bit with the estrogen also and are simple supplements.
After some time then you will need to get off the above and see how your body bounces back. Any way you slice it when coming off the drugs your going to crash for a bit as your body tries to get things working again. This all goes back to my earlier posts, drugs dont fix anything, simply mask the sides. You just need to be using thr right drugs to get you past the propecia fiasco but even then your going to crash for a bit. There is no getting around it.
