How does an AI work to get rid of water retention?

[gmaury]

Hello everyone,

We all know AI's work well to get rid of water retention caused by excess estrogen in our bodies. But how does this work exactly? I mean does it release the water through urine or sweat? Does it pass through the endocrine system or does it use the sweat glands in our bodies to release this excess water? I ask because I've been using liquid exemestane (aromasin) and I've been getting these sweats from time to time which I find odd. My weight has gone down about 6 lbs in one week but I look ripped as hell, more than ever. Some belly fat has also gone down since I started using this AI as well. If anyone has any insight or just related knowledge please do share folks. Thanks for reading everyone. Have a great weekend guys.

Regards,

G Maury.

 

[Zyglamail]

excess estrogen is what causes some to retain extra water. An AI reduces estrogen and therefor the water retained by some. The AI itself doesnt cause the water to leave your body it effects your hormones which is what effects water.

Sex Hormone Effects on Body Fluid Regulation

 

[gmaury]

Thanks for the reply Zyg. It makes sense that your hormones are the ones causing the water retention and thus the water reduction; but how do the hormones then secrete this excess water? Through urine or sweat? or both? I just want to rule out that it's this AI that's causing these random sweats I'm getting. If it's not then something else is causing it and I have to look for the reason, being it's not normal to have these sweats like if I was a premenopausal elderly woman. Could be some reaction to something else i'm taking. Any thoughts?

 

[Zyglamail]

excess water is removed typically through urination. The sweating and hot flashes are a common side effect of exemestane.

EXEMESTANE - ORAL (Aromasin) side effects, medical uses, and drug interactions.

 

[gmaury]

That's the answer I was looking for Zyg, thank you very much brother. Great link! Powerful stuff btw holy cow! Only at 10mg ED and it's drying me out in a week! Have a great day guys.

 

[dallasboy]

Which is the better AI, Aromasin or Armidex?


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[RickRock13]

Which is the better AI, Aromasin or Armidex?


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I prefer aromasin over arimadex

 

[Zyglamail]

Which is the better AI, Aromasin or Armidex?

In its pure ability to stop aromatization, aromasin is better BUT our goal isnt the obliteration of estrogen. When we cycle its all about estrogen CONTROL!

Having said the above for the control of estrogen both aromasin and adex have proven equally effective, which you chose to use will be based on how you feel and respond to them. SOme people get no sides from one but sides from the other etc. Availability and price may affect decision as well.

CONTROL estrogen, dont wipe it out! Also just because one person can run 500mg test a week and not use an AI doesnt mean you can get away with it. almost daily someone posts here they are getting gyno symptoms on moderate test doses and when questioned they opted not to use an AI....dont be that guy!

 

[gmaury]

Which is the better AI, Aromasin or Armidex?


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So far Aromasin has been great to me bro. It's been a week and I'm dried out completely and at this dose my joints feel fins so far so my E isn't that low; you don't want that either. I'm dosing at 10mg ED; try yourself which dose is better for you. If your using compounds that aromatize more then you should maybe up the dose a bit. Aromasin is a suicidal inhibitor which means you are not going to suffer from rebound gyno which is more likely to occur with Arimidex which is not suicidal (it's a competitive inhibitor) in regards to estrogen. Taken from wikipedia:

"...Anastrozole binds reversibly to the aromatase enzyme through competitive inhibition, inhibits the conversion of androgens to estrogens in peripheral tissues (extra-gonadal).[8][9]..."

 

[-SD-]

Estrogen is necessary for good cholesterol levels and libido levels. Dont wipe it out with a suicide AI.

 

[stevesmi]

in my experience aromasin has less sides and is more gentle of the two.. all in all though its going to come down to personal preference

ag guys has good quality aromasin that's where I get mine

 

[gmaury]

Estrogen is necessary for good cholesterol levels and libido levels. Dont wipe it out with a suicide AI.

Shouldn't wipe it out as much as letro though for example; around 80% at 25mg/day. If you're prone to gyno I would prefer aromasin just to be safe IMO.

"...Aromasin is a very strong and very potent steroidal aromatase inhibitor of the suicidal type, and information within the packaging in prescription Aromasin describes the ability for Aromasin to reduce Estrogen levels by 85%, as evidenced by studies on breast cancer patients[1]..."

 

[Tertulian]

in my experience aromasin has less sides and is more gentle of the two.. all in all though its going to come down to personal preference

ag guys has good quality aromasin that's where I get mine

Don't mean to hijack bro, but I have been on Clomid for a while, nothing else. I am being treated for PFS, which is basically a hell created by Merck.

Anyways, I have gained at least 20 lbs in fat and water. My estradiol is showing at 79 pg/mL. This is nearly twice over the max limit for males. I should be under 39 pg/mL.

I've talked to a few others in here about what to do.
My doc just gave me an Rx for 4 pills of Anastrazole (Arimidex). I am feeling better but he only wants me to take 1 pill/wk, two if I think I need to. He doesn't want my estrogen to be overly supressed.

I've already ordered some Aromasin. But is that all I should do? I want/need to lose weight. I eat clean 90% of the time, 2 small cheat meals a week. But that is like 1/2 cup of ice cream or 2 pieces of bread, nothing crazy.

Is there something I can do to shed this estrogen fat and water relatively right away?

 

[Zyglamail]

Is there something I can do to shed this estrogen fat and water relatively right away?

No, its going to take a little time. AI's dont do anything for the estrogen already in your system, they just reduce how much is made.

With that being said, why is your estrogen so high? Are you on a cycle? Excess bodyfat?

 

[Tertulian]

I just posted my story on the first page New Member - Tertulian.
The short of it is that my doc put me on Clomid by itself for last eight weeks. My test went up to 800s but soon after so did my estradiol.

Sent from my HAM radio up in low orbit.

 

[Zyglamail]

Of course your E will rise when test does. Why did you doc put you on clomid?

You want some advice stop making us play detective and give us the whole scoop.

 

[Tertulian]

Of course your E will rise when test does. Why did you doc put you on clomid?

You want some advice stop making us play detective and give us the whole scoop.

Sorry. You are right. I will repost it here.

 

[Tertulian]

I am new and I have lots of questions. I've been a member of a few forums. I've always been natty.

Up until September 2013 I was okay strong:
Squat ATG - 365x3
Dlift - 550x1
Bench - 325x2

Long story short, I took Propecia and everything went to hell. Dead dick, all of the time, genital numbness, shrinkage, feelings of despair, temptation to depression but I'm pretty strong mentally. I could feel that mood trying to overcome me. I would basically focus on something and tell myself everything good I've done.

I went from a solid 250 to 289 in 3 months. I kept working out because symptoms hadn't yet affected my energy levels.
My last BodyFat Hydrostatic weighing had me at 289 lbs. 25.8% body fat.

Then chronic fatigue hit me hard in September. I saw a sexual medicine doc in December and he put me on Clomid 50mg M W F.
Lab said my Tot Test: 300, Free: 2.

The Clomid really helped with the bad mood feelings, the lethargy and chronic fatigue. This was a really big deal! BUT . . . . . .

I gained more weight now 315 lbs. I'm out of breath often, I've had 4 monster panic attacks where I wake up in high alert, yelling and already standing next to my bed, heart pounding out of my chest. You can imagine, my partner gets freaked out, I'm 6'3".

My doc just gave me a Rx for Anastrazole (Arimidex) 4-1mg pills, to be only taken once a week because he says he doesn't want my estrogen to go too low.

I talked to a moderator here that told me I should get a hold of some Aromasin, so I just ordered it.

I've been working out again, but mostly gymnastic movements with some squatting and Deadlifting mixed in.

So if you could please offer help, I'd be in your debt.
What should I do with all this water weight. I have dimpling between my thighs, my stomach is distended most of the time, and my face is puffy.

Tell me what you think.

I can't post direct links so I posted the url. You guys can copy and paste it into your browser if you want to see my lab work.

Here is my recent lab work drive.google.com/file/d/0B6P-Enc_R015Vmw1X0dnbWcwZnc/edit?usp=sharing

Tert

 

[Zyglamail]

Personally I would lay off all the pharmaceuticals, they are just jacking you up and causing problems. You need to let all that shit clear your system. Try taking DIM and calcium D clucarate to control estrogen naturally.

 

[Tertulian]

Hmm . . .

Sent from my HAM radio up in low orbit.

 

[Zyglamail]

Hmm . . .

hate to break it to you but drugs dont fix anything, they simply mask symptoms.


Are you still taking propecia?

It totally jacks up your free test.

 

[Tertulian]

I don't think you dispelled anything. So no need to worry cause you broke nothing new to me.

I had already stopped taking Propecia for over a year. And I started getting really bad symptoms. In December I found out I am dealing with Post finasteride syndrome.

I guess I should be clearer. I'm aware of the evils of pharmaceuticals. Believe me. I rue the day i used it to keep my hair.
Propecia was the first Rx I ever had, outside of pain meds for surgery. The reason why I'm here is for help managing the estrogen and water from taking Clomid. The Clomid was Rx to me in order to deal with my secondary hypogonadism caused by the injury to my 5-alpha reductase enzyme. It is a treatment protocol that I am on by one of 6 US doctors that deal with this.

I really appreciate you taking the time to respond, but it is not a little insulting to get a condescending answer with super obvious information based on erroneous assumptions.

Again i am not trying to be rude. I don't hate to break it to you with sincere reflection.

I simply need help managing estrogen and I guess the ancillary symptoms of water gain from experts, which you all happen to be.

Sent from my HAM radio up in low orbit.

 

[Zyglamail]

I don't think you dispelled anything. So no need to worry cause you broke nothing new to me.

I had already stopped taking Propecia for over a year. And I started getting really bad symptoms. In December I found out I am dealing with Post finasteride syndrome.

I guess I should be clearer. I'm aware of the evils of pharmaceuticals. Believe me. I rue the day i used it to keep my hair.
Propecia was the first Rx I ever had, outside of pain meds for surgery. The reason why I'm here is for help managing the estrogen and water from taking Clomid. The Clomid was Rx to me in order to deal with my secondary hypogonadism caused by the injury to my 5-alpha reductase enzyme. It is a treatment protocol that I am on by one of 6 US doctors that deal with this.

So your doc is one of only 6 in the country that deals with your issue so he must be awesome, why not just listen to him. If your only goal is to control estrogen then follow his advice and take the adex.

I really appreciate you taking the time to respond, but it is not a little insulting to get a condescending answer with super obvious information based on erroneous assumptions.

Again i am not trying to be rude. I don't hate to break it to you with sincere reflection.

I simply need help managing estrogen and I guess the ancillary symptoms of water gain from experts, which you all happen to be.

Sent from my HAM radio up in low orbit.

Im really not a fan of the passive aggressive types who come here with little knowledge about what they are doing and ask for advice even though they already have firmly entrenched in their mind what they want to hear and then they get pissy when they dont hear it and assumptions are made about someones condition because that someone didnt have the decency to take the time and explain the whole situation.

Every post you have made you have been doling out little tidbits of information about your scenario and you have the nerve to insult people for making assumptions? People are forced to make assumptions because you have the lack of decency to fill people in. You come here asking for people to give up their free time explaining stuff to you that you dont want to hear and criticize them.

You clearly like the clomid but not the estrogen, you do realize that clomid is a form of estrogen dont you? And that it may be causing the labs to show high and causing all your E related sides? Taking A dex will reduce the amount of E your body converts from test but it wont do anything to clomid which is likely the problem and not really natural E. A high normal T level is likely not the cause of E as high as yours. But of course your doc is a specialist so he would know all that.

Why dont you just saddle back up to the prescription trough, that you stated you hate, but clearly are a slave too, and just keep blindly taking what the doc is doling out. Im sure he has a beemer to pay for and kids to put through ivy league college.

 

[Tertulian]

Look. This is a big misunderstanding.

I just really need your help. The treatment plan has helped me a whole lot, but I feel defeated.

How can I best manage this Clomid and Aromasin or Anastrazole deal?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Tertulian]

Excess bodyfat. I am pretty big right now.

Sent from my HAM radio up in low orbit.

 

[Zyglamail]

Look. This is a big misunderstanding.

I just really need your help. The treatment plan has helped me a whole lot, but I feel defeated.

How can I best manage this Clomid and Aromasin or Anastrazole deal?

Thanks in advance.

No sense editing your posts, I can see all versions.

I stand by my initial statement, get off the clomid!!

Your clearly in a state of denial and are looking to take one product to counteract another and its a never ending spiral of addressing one side affect and adding another.

Put aside your ego and preconceived notions for a minute and hear me out.

Propecia is a 5α-reductase inhibitor which means it will prevent testosterone from converting to DHT. This lack of DHT in your body is what caused all your initial problems and finasteride is notorious for having nasty side effects that can last months and even years after use is discontinued, which you have now experienced first hand.

So, what does the doctor do for you? He prescribes clomid to try and offset the negative effects of finasteride but lets consider why clomid seems to be helping you to some degree. Clomid is in essence a weak estrogen that will attach to the E receptor without activating it the same way true E will. This has the effect of preventing damage from high estrogen but also throws off the HPTA and makes the body think E levels are lower than they are which in turn causes the body to increase test production.

So, the benefits you are getting from clomid is increased testosterone which is helping to offset your mood but has the negative effect of being an estrogen.

Now the doc wants to add adex to the mix, another enzyme inhibitor to prevent T from converting E in an effort to control your high E levels. The problem with this approach is that your test levels of 800ish are not high enough to cause an E level of 79 so this tells me the E test is actually reading the clomid as E. The amount of test converting to E in your body is pretty small. Much of your E is the clomid itself and another good chunk is being produced in adipose tissue so adex may be enough to to get E down on the lab test BUT it will only be hampering natural E and wont affect the clomid. As mentioned above clomid is a wek estrogen, binds to receptor without activating it so you have to ask yourself, what happens if I kill natural E and at the same time block the E receptor with clomid???

My guess is you will start to suffer side effects of low E and just add to your problems.

If testosterone is whats really helping you feel better then the solution should be simple, get off the damn clomid! Start taking testosterone and adex to control estrogen. Alternatively I would consider using HCG instead of clomid to spur on more test production so you get the test boost without the nasty clomid sides.

 

[Tertulian]

Again, apologies.
Thank you very much.

I gained quite a bit of fat. Could that be another reason my E is going up on clomid?
I am very gratefully indebted.

Sent from my HAM radio up in low orbit.

 

[Zyglamail]

Again, apologies.
Thank you very much.

I gained quite a bit of fat. Could that be another reason my E is going up on clomid?
I am very gratefully indebted.

Sent from my HAM radio up in low orbit.

Yes, adipose tissue will produce estrogen and anastrozole wont do anything about that. Thats part of my point that I dont think adex (in combination with clomid) is going to be the answer to your problem.

Ive laid out in simple terms above what appears to be happening and what I would do to address it. HCG to increase natural test production would likely be the best bet. It wont shut down testis like taking test would but it will still have a suppressive effect on pituitary. You may need a small dose of adex while on hcg but remember it will only affect estrogen produced from test but at least at that point your dealing with real estrogen and not some lab number thrown off by the consumption of estrogen (ie clomid).

Consider taking DIM and calcium D glucarate to help metabolize estrogen naturally as well.

 

[Tertulian]

Thanks so much. Eternally grateful.


I'll talk to him about trying HCG, but I may have to just do my own thing I guess.
by the way, after adding anastrazole for just 1 week I've dropped 7lbs of water and I feel much much better, compared to before.

So like you said the Clomid gave me a slight improvement because of Test increase, but then I needed to manage E.


I want to drop my bodyfat % in order to be able to get in better health but it is like a viscous cycle: too high bf → aromatization → too much estrogen → can't lose bodyfat.

What do you suggest be the best approach to getting out of this cycle? Through all of this I got a little soft. Havne't really lifted hard in 6 months, but I haven't really lost muscle.

 

[Zyglamail]

Thanks so much.
I'll talk to him about trying HCG, but I may have to just do my own thing I guess.

I want to drop my bodyfat % in order to be able to get in better health but it is like a viscous cycle: too high bf → aromatization → too much estrogen → can't lose bodyfat.

What do you suggest be the best approach to getting out of this cycle? Through all of this I got a little soft. Havne't really lifted hard in 6 months, but I haven't really lost muscle.

Its going to take time for the side effect of the propecia to wear off. This could be months or in extreme cases years.

Any pharmaceutical route is going to have negatives.

HCG will be the least suppressive and will take some trial and error on dosing.

testosterone would be the next step, likely in conjunction with some HCG to prevent testicular atrophy.

Both of the above may require a little adex to control estrogen but you woul need labs to keep on top of it and get things dialed in.

As mentioned DIM and calcium D glucarate will help quite a bit with the estrogen also and are simple supplements.

After some time then you will need to get off the above and see how your body bounces back. Any way you slice it when coming off the drugs your going to crash for a bit as your body tries to get things working again. This all goes back to my earlier posts, drugs dont fix anything, simply mask the sides. You just need to be using thr right drugs to get you past the propecia fiasco but even then your going to crash for a bit. There is no getting around it.