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Health coverage is not a right.. it is a tool

SpyWizard

Elite Mentor
EF VIP
if the child does not have health care it's because the parents have caused a situation that stops them from being treated.. plan and simple..

they either refuse to enroll the child, or they are unable to get the child to an appointment..


If a person can afford medical treatment the system is set up to make them pay.. if a person.. legally or illegally will be treated at no charge or at a reduced fee in any medical facility that they present themselves to..

google is not a magic wand, however it is a tool to search published information..

http://www.cmanet.org/upload/health_...ge_history.pdf

point being medical coverage is not a right, it is a benefit designed to provide employers a tool to attract employees..

HISTORY OF HEALTH COVERAGE IN CALIFORNIA
• Health insurance is born in California. The idea of health insurance, paying a periodic fee to guard against a major financial catastrophe, came into prominence in California during the 1930s. In 1931, the Los Angeles County Medical Association (LACMA) reached an agreement with the Metropolitan Water District to provide health care for its employees. In 1937, for example, the Alameda County Medical Association (ACMA) developed one of the first plans in order to prevent the closure of hospitals when people were unable to pay their bills. Participating employers and employees set aside a small amount each month to guard against that day when hospitalization might be necessary.
• CMA sponsors health coverage legislation. CMA has been at the forefront of increasing access to health care since the inception of health insurance. In 1935, at the height of the Depression, CMA spent $50,000 (nearly $700,000 in today’s dollars) to study health care for the poor and also sponsored state legislation, Senate Bill 454, to provide universal health care for all Californians. In the next legislative session in 1937, CMA sponsored another bill that would have authorized the association to create its own voluntary health prepayment plan in each county.
• Employer-based health coverage. One of the state’s most successful health insurance programs was born in 1937 when Henry J. Kaiser (the largest defense contractor in California) hired physicians to provide medical care for workers and families. In 1945, because other companies saw the Kaiser system as an attractive worker benefit, Kaiser reorganized into a separate corporate structure -- Kaiser Permanente -- to provide medical care to employees of other companies.
• CMA creates Blue Shield. In 1939, CMA voted to form a nonprofit membership corporation (which would later become known as Blue Shield) that would offer prepaid monthly memberships to patients who would receive care from member physicians. More than 20,000 patients signed up for coverage in 1940, the first year of operation. Patients received medical coverage for $2.50 a month ($33 in today’s dollars), not including hospitalization. In 1979, CMA divested itself from Blue Shield of California, which today is the state’s third-largest health plan.
• State sets framework for statewide health insurance. State legislators from Alameda County, impressed by the Alameda County model, brought the idea to the state Legislature where it was quickly enacted. Thus, Blue Cross, created initially as a “public, nonprofit hospital service plan,” was born. It was a public creation with a statutorily defined board of directors and mission; but with the flexibility of a private organization.
• Governor Warren Proposal. Republican Governor Earl Warren in 1945 introduced a bill to create a payroll-tax-funded single payer health insurance plan. In a historic vote, the effort failed 39-38. The public health insurance tides turned in part due to the growth of employer based health coverage. By the late 1940s the concept of employer based health coverage was entrenched as employers began to offer health insurance as a “non-cash” benefit to compete for employees.
• President Truman Proposal. In 1949, President Harry Truman failed to get his nationwide universal health care proposal off the ground.
• Medicare and Medicaid. While health insurance coverage continued to grow during the 1950’s, many workers, seniors and the unemployed were not covered. Political pressure at both the national and state level began to build for some form of universal coverage. But it was not until 1965 that major legislation was enacted. With the passage of Titles XVIII (Medicare) and IXX (Medicaid), the federal government, almost overnight, assured comprehensive health coverage to 20 percent of the population.
• Growth of Health Maintenance Organizations (HMOs) in California. By 1970 with the expansion of coverage, demand increased rapidly, outstripping supply, resulting in costs increasing at a rate faster than the cost of living. Many policy makers believed that costs would not be contained unless utilization incentives were altered. Prepaid health programs (also referred to as HMOs) were viewed as the best answer to utilization and the cost problem. Accordingly, decreased utilization of health services became the economic driver.
• President Nixon Proposal. In 1971 President Nixon proposed universal coverage through a mix of public and private programs.
• Promotion of HMOs in California. In 1971, the California State Legislature enacted the first of what was to be a series of Medi-Cal reforms. The centerpiece of the 1971 Act was to encourage enrollment in prepaid health programs by creating impediments to fee-for-service utilization (reduced reimbursement, prior authorization, visit limitations). The Department of Health moved rapidly to sign contracts with prepaid health programs in order to enroll Medi-Cal recipients. However, the centerpiece of the 1971 Reform, “prepaid health care,” became a statewide scandal: necessary care was denied to recipients, physician services were sometimes non-existent, patients were enrolled in pre-paid programs under false pretenses and Medi-Cal dollars were misappropriated.
• Reforming the reform. The Legislature moved rapidly to “clean up the mess” that had occurred with the implementation of the 1971 Act: Contracts were terminated, fraud violations were referred to district attorneys, standards were introduced by the Department of Health. Most important, the Knox-Keene Act was enacted in 1976 establishing a regulatory framework for licensing and regulating prepaid health plans (HMOs).
• Consolidation and for-profit status. Initially most HMOs were nonprofit entities. For example, by 1980 twelve plans had been licensed by the Department of Corporations under the Knox-Keene Act. Ten of the original twelve plans were nonprofit. Today five health plans control more than 90% of the market and only two major plans are nonprofit entities.
• President Clinton Proposal. In the 1980s and 1990s, as managed care and insurance companies gained increasing power in the marketplace and insurance premiums continued to rise, more Americans found themselves without health insurance. In the early 1990s, President William J. Clinton unsuccessfully pushed for a federal universal coverage plan.
• CMA Sponsors Health Coverage Proposals. CMA-sponsored Proposition 166 which was ahead in the polls in the weeks leading up to the November 1992 election. However, the insurance industry and others launched a late and well-funded media blitz that killed the initiative. In October 2003, then-Governor Gray Davis signed the CMA-co-sponsored Health Insurance Act (SB 2), a bill that would have required medium and large companies to provide health coverage to employees. Unfortunately, the following year, a referendum repealed SB 2.
California Medical Association
January 2007
 
I can't stand the people who think the ER is their clinic. They don't want to wait for a clinic appointment at a free clinic, so they just show up to the ER for their everyday problems... refill on diabetes and blood pressure medicines, colds, etc.

They always get sent out without a script unless their blood sugar or blood pressure are through the roof.

People wonder why they have to wait for 6 hours to be seen when they come to the ER with their chest pain or abdominal pain. It's because all the illegal immigrants and uninsured are clogging up all the rooms and then don't understand why I won't refill their medicines or give them 30 Oxycontins.
 
I can't stand the people who think the ER is their clinic. They don't want to wait for a clinic appointment at a free clinic, so they just show up to the ER for their everyday problems... refill on diabetes and blood pressure medicines, colds, etc.

They always get sent out without a script unless their blood sugar or blood pressure are through the roof.

People wonder why they have to wait for 6 hours to be seen when they come to the ER with their chest pain or abdominal pain. It's because all the illegal immigrants and uninsured are clogging up all the rooms and then don't understand why I won't refill their medicines or give them 30 Oxycontins.

I've started to experience some of this.....the one guy has a habit of coming to the ER and saying "the right things" so he can be placed on a 72 hr psych hold so he has a place to get away.

Complete and utter bullshit.

I can imagine how frustrating it must be for you stat.
 
No way Smurfy, Thats the person I have been waiting on posting in some of these threads.... didn't they have a guy with a huge belly in their signature?
 
yeah where in the hell is he ?

I think he got a job at Kaiser (ERRN). So, probably pretty busy with that and his little baby daughter. He was on the OMEGA project, so maybe OMEGA has talked to him?
 
I can't stand the people who think the ER is their clinic. They don't want to wait for a clinic appointment at a free clinic, so they just show up to the ER for their everyday problems... refill on diabetes and blood pressure medicines, colds, etc.

They always get sent out without a script unless their blood sugar or blood pressure are through the roof.

People wonder why they have to wait for 6 hours to be seen when they come to the ER with their chest pain or abdominal pain. It's because all the illegal immigrants and uninsured are clogging up all the rooms and then don't understand why I won't refill their medicines or give them 30 Oxycontins.

Agreed mate, it's incredibly lame & it happens in the UK as well; selfish people tying up critical staff for non-emergencies. Jesus people, that's what the NHS phone lines & your GP is for, there are people coming in to the A & E with fractures & head injuries & you're clogging up the system with your fucking stupid routine shit :rolleyes:
 
I agree with the angle you have here but it doesn't show the whole picture of the fucked up situation in the US.

If you work for a company you are in like flin.

If you don't work for a company and have a preexisting condition, you are FUCKED.

My gf quit her job to start her own business. A poorly timed pap came back irregular shortly thereafter. It then progressed to nearly cervix cancer. She couldn't get health coverage and had to borrow $9,000 to pay for the surgery to remove the cancer cells.

Now .... she cannot get affordable health insurance. Even though she has taken the steps to correct her health situation she is still considered high risk. The only policies she can get cost over $3,000 A MONTH just for her.

So ... technically can she get health insurance? Yes. Can she REALLY get health insurance. Fuck no.

In short, the system is great if you work for the man, or are married to someone who works for the man.
 
Agreed mate, it's incredibly lame & it happens in the UK as well; selfish people tying up critical staff for non-emergencies. Jesus people, that's what the NHS phone lines & your GP is for, there are people coming in to the A & E with fractures & head injuries & you're clogging up the system with your fucking stupid routine shit :rolleyes:

I laughed my ass off one morning at 4 am (have to laugh instead of cry) when I had 'patient complaining of diarhhoea for 18/12'.

If you had diarrhoea for a year and a half, why did it all of a sudden become an emergency on a Wednesday night at 3 am?

Why couldn't that wait till 8 am for your GP?
 
There are programs like Medicaid in the US that allow for indigent care. Everyone else has access via insurance or pay-as-you-go service.

Negative. In theory yes. But "pay as you go" is not affordable unless you want to live in a cardboard box.

In 2008 no health insurance = no health care in the US. The current situation here is inhumane. The problem is that most people are unaware of it. Either they work for a company or are married to someone that does. Thus they have access to coverage regardless of preexisting conditions.

They think that the people that don't have health insurance are the illegal aliens and welfare parasites.

If you are self employed and have a preexisting condition, you are FUCKED and these are the hard working and honest, yet forgotten group.
 
YOU CAN'T HAVE FREE PUBLIC HEALTHCARE WHEN YOU HAVE AN ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION PROBLEMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM....

Print that out and staple it to your wall. Even Canada, proud of their healthcare, are NAZIS when it comes to immigration and immigrant's health before stepping on canadian soil. Wanna be deported from Canada fast? Ask for medical help.

r
 
YOU CAN'T HAVE FREE PUBLIC HEALTHCARE WHEN YOU HAVE AN ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION PROBLEMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM....

Print that out and staple it to your wall. Even Canada, proud of their healthcare, are NAZIS when it comes to immigration and immigrant's health before stepping on canadian soil. Wanna be deported from Canada fast? Ask for medical help.

r

What is the official Zod platform on healthcare?
 
YOU CAN'T HAVE FREE PUBLIC HEALTHCARE WHEN YOU HAVE AN ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION PROBLEMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM....

Print that out and staple it to your wall. Even Canada, proud of their healthcare, are NAZIS when it comes to immigration and immigrant's health before stepping on canadian soil. Wanna be deported from Canada fast? Ask for medical help.

r

The USA is not the only country with an immigration 'problem'.

France, Germany, Italy and England all have illegal immigration from Africa, India, Pakistan and E. Europe and they still have a universal health care program.
 
I agree with the angle you have here but it doesn't show the whole picture of the fucked up situation in the US.

If you work for a company you are in like flin.

If you don't work for a company and have a preexisting condition, you are FUCKED.

My gf quit her job to start her own business. A poorly timed pap came back irregular shortly thereafter. It then progressed to nearly cervix cancer. She couldn't get health coverage and had to borrow $9,000 to pay for the surgery to remove the cancer cells.

Now .... she cannot get affordable health insurance. Even though she has taken the steps to correct her health situation she is still considered high risk. The only policies she can get cost over $3,000 A MONTH just for her.

So ... technically can she get health insurance? Yes. Can she REALLY get health insurance. Fuck no.

In short, the system is great if you work for the man, or are married to someone who works for the man.

WERD

My ex cut my health insurance off THE DAY of our divorce proceeding in the court house (the SOB couldn't even wait until the end of the month nor did he offer me, the mother of his children, the option to stay on the plan and pay for it out of pocket) so I have been uninsured for over 8 years. Luckily, I've not been diagnosed with anything serious just yet. Last month we finally became insured and let me tell you we are using the FUCK out of the health AND dental insurance.
 
I agree with the angle you have here but it doesn't show the whole picture of the fucked up situation in the US.

If you work for a company you are in like flin.

If you don't work for a company and have a preexisting condition, you are FUCKED.

My gf quit her job to start her own business. A poorly timed pap came back irregular shortly thereafter. It then progressed to nearly cervix cancer. She couldn't get health coverage and had to borrow $9,000 to pay for the surgery to remove the cancer cells.

Now .... she cannot get affordable health insurance. Even though she has taken the steps to correct her health situation she is still considered high risk. The only policies she can get cost over $3,000 A MONTH just for her.

So ... technically can she get health insurance? Yes. Can she REALLY get health insurance. Fuck no.

In short, the system is great if you work for the man, or are married to someone who works for the man.


Sad situation...and all too common i hear.
 
In 2008 no health insurance = no health care in the US. The current situation here is inhumane. The problem is that most people are unaware of it.

Or, as in the case with a select few on this board are happier to ignore it.

For some it's all too difficult to criticise the system of their own government. Apparently to do so would be unpatriotic. :rolleyes:
 
The USA is not the only country with an immigration 'problem'.

France, Germany, Italy and England all have illegal immigration from Africa, India, Pakistan and E. Europe and they still have a universal health care program.

Exactly, the same people saying this will be talking negatively about how multicultural London is.
 
YOU CAN'T HAVE FREE PUBLIC HEALTHCARE WHEN YOU HAVE AN ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION PROBLEMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM....

Print that out and staple it to your wall. Even Canada, proud of their healthcare, are NAZIS when it comes to immigration and immigrant's health before stepping on canadian soil. Wanna be deported from Canada fast? Ask for medical help.

r

Lifted from an army forum I frequent:

"Here is my letter to a MP over here explaining what happened at the airport.

On 12th July 2008, I entered Canada via Halifax international airport. I have been nominated by the Province of Nova Scotia, under the community identified stream. The Provinces have requested a work permit for me, which is being processed in London. I expect the work permit to arrive in 2-4 weeks. I presented myself to the first border guard and explained that I was here for a holiday, although I have been nominated by the Province, and I was unsure how to answer some of the questions on the border entry card I was given on the flight over. I was told no problem, see immigration at there desk and they will tell you what you need to do.

Once there I spoke to a border guard called Colleen Clarke, and explained that we were here on holiday and when our work permits arrived we would leave and re enter to land under the work permits. Colleen Clarke initially said yes, that’s fine you can drive to the border and do that no problem. She mentioned St Stephens as a place on the border.

Suddenly the atmosphere changed and she said” Why have you brought your daughter to Canada?”

I said “What do you mean?”

She said” Your daughter has a life ban entering the country because she is disabled”.


She explained that in 2005 when I applied to study at university in Canada, my daughter was denied entry to Canada under reg. 38(1) as she was likely to cause excessive needs to the Canadian social services over the 4 year term of the course” I said I understand the regulation, but the law has subsequently changed and she is entitled to a individual assessment and we are entitled to re apply.

However, Colleen Clarke explained that once the assessment had been carried out my daughter had a life ban and she can never enter Canada even on holiday.

I said ”so if we turned up here, lets forgot the nominee program, as a holiday maker she isn’t allowed in the country because she is disabled.

Colleen Clarke replied” Yes, she has come to our attention as disabled, and she has a life ban. She is classed in the same way as someone who has committed DUI” (I took this as some sort of drink drive offence.)

My wife then asked her again to repeat her answer and she confirmed that because Lucy is disabled she cannot ever entry Canada even as a holiday maker, even under a UK passport.

I said “That cannot be, we have been to Canada three times in the last two years, and they have swiped our passports at the border, with no problems. Colleen Clarke said” Then that must be a fluke”. I said “What a fluke 3 times!!” She said” “They may have different systems to us, I don’t know.”

I asked whether I could speak to her boss, but she just said” I’m in charge, it is my decision and these are our laws”

We were detained for over 5 hours, and threatened with being put on the next plane to London. She told me that she could not see my work permit visas on the system. I said” I know they are with London, can’t we just come in as tourists like I asked.

Colleen Clarke replied “No your daughter has a life ban from entering Canada because she is disabled.”

She said to me” Did it not occur to you to check whether your daughter could enter Canada before you made any trip here?”

I said” Why would think that she wouldn’t be allowed into Canada as a disabled person” “She is here on holiday, she cannot access any Canadian health or social services, she is like any other holiday maker, she has travel insurance.

I explained that the excessive needs regulation is a calculation made over a number of years to establish whether someone would cause excessive demand on the system.


“She said “ No its not, it has nothing to do with a calculation”. I showed her the regulation that I found in my paperwork. Colleen Clarke went away and studied it.

Initially I was told that we would be allowed to stay until 27th August 2008. This would mean that there was no danger of trying to put Lucy in school. I told her that there’s no danger anyway, as we have no visas, so we couldn’t. She then changed her mind and said that she is going on holiday, would do some enquiries, and then come back to us.

Eventually we were allowed to enter Canada, but had our passports seized, and told we would have a telephone interview on 23rd July 2008, at 5pm to tell us whether we are staying or having to go.

I arranged for all the visa paperwork that London has, to be faxed to Colleen Clarke, and confirmed that it was received at her office.

When she rang me on 23rd July to tell me that we would have to leave the country, she stated that she had not read the paperwork I sent her, and she didn’t need to. She said she had all the information she needed. I couldn’t believe that she hadn’t read the information. I was informed that I would be required to report to immigration at 6pm on Wednesday 30th July 2008, to be sent from the country back the United Kingdom.

This is obviously going to cause me serious problems, as I have sold my house in the UK, in order to fund the plans for the business we were going to create in Halifax. We were investing over $500,000cdn and were going to create 25 additional jobs for Nova Scotia. The immigration has been carefully planned with the Provinces, Greater Halifax Partnership, and various Councillors, all who have supported me in my plans. No one can explain why my daughter has a life ban for being disabled, although various politicians have tried to help with our situation.

For the record, I have never received notification that my daughter has been barred from entering Canada, and nothing has been stamped into her passport. I feel this is a misinterpretation of the regulations, and now Canadian border services don’t want to back down, having made a decision. I understand the Permanent Resident requirements as regards assessing a disabled child, and I am prepared for this process. My complaint is that my daughter Lucy C****** is banned for life from entering Canada because she is disabled. She may never enter Canada as a holiday maker. There is nothing else that I have been made aware off. This is about my daughter being disabled.

This is a breach of her human rights under the UN Charter, and is totally discriminatory against disabled people.

She's 7, and has a rare syndrome called Angelman's. Left her with big learning delays (she a 2-3 year in her head) and no speech. She was a one in million chance, as the gene copied over when she was made, but fell off.

So, she gets the diagnoisis, but luckily doesn't need drugs, has no siezures, needs no wheelchairs etc. All she had in UK was going to a special needs school. I had a school all lined here in Nova Scotia already to accept her.
"
 
bull shit, if the person wants to be self employed, buy the damn insurance, it is pre tax and they pay far less tax than anyone in the usa..

80/20 split
family of 3
blue cross
with pre existing condition..
$425 per month.. pre tax and all cost spent on medical care is tax deductible..
also lets not forget the $36000 per year that can be paid to her as a dividend, thus avoiding state, income, and ssn taxes..

pay an accountant his $$$, it's the only way to screw IRS and be like poor people and pay no tax..
 
bull shit, if the person wants to be self employed, buy the damn insurance, it is pre tax and they pay far less tax than anyone in the usa..

80/20 split
family of 3
blue cross
with pre existing condition..
$425 per month.. pre tax and all cost spent on medical care is tax deductible..
also lets not forget the $36000 per year that can be paid to her as a dividend, thus avoiding state, income, and ssn taxes..

pay an accountant his $$$, it's the only way to screw IRS and be like poor people and pay no tax..

medical Savings accounts are also pre-tax dollars
 
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