HBO Special and "Done Correctly" (cycle advice)

[johnnya46]

The HBO Special says that if the Gear is "Done Correctly" it has no links to any of the previous myths.

Can anybody define "Done Correctly"? I want to make sure I am doing these things "Correctly".

I am looking for a new cycle to cut body fat and throw on some solid LBM. I am not good with a straight Test or Sust because of my body type. I just bloat...
I like Winny, but I want something else or something to go along with the Winny.

Don't want Deca because I am on Propecia...

And would like to stick myself as little as possible... Once or twice a week instead of ED or EOD... Would even consider more Orals.
I have IP 50mg Winny Pills that I plan on using sometime during the cycle.

Any ideas?

 

[Bruce]

firstly ip is really not good stuff, 50 pills is like 10 days worth right. you really don't want to do a bunch of orals. i would reccomend some primo and anavar

 

[johnnya46]

My apologies,
The IP 50 is a 50mg pill.

How much Primo and or Anavar would you recommend?

 

[locrian]

since you already have the winny, you could do primo/strol cycle. Most people will say to run 600mg of primo a week, but i think you could run 400 mg for 10 or 12 weeks doing the strol for the last 5 weeks of your cycle and make very good gains.

 

[johnnya46]

Just did my reading on the Anavar. I want to give it a try.

What is the best way to run it? Dosage.. Any brands better than others that I should look for?

Think EQ will bloat? Or should I find Primo as well?

Thanks,

 

[Bruce]

i would get orbit anavar or bd, orbit makes 25mg tabs for awesome $$. you should not bloat with either primo or eq. run the var at 40-50mg ed at a minimum 75-100mg ed if you wanna be a badass and get ridiculous strength gains, it will be a bit pricey though. primo i would run no less than 600 a week honestly same as eq, when i ran deca at 400 and switched to 600 it was night and day. just like winny at 75mg ed as compared to 50mg ed orally is night and day with regard to pumps

 

[johnnya46]

Thanks Bruce!!

Where do I find Orbit or BD? Are they American, Mexican, Italian etc.?

Take them all at once or throughout the day?

Pre workout or Post workout?

Have any tips for me before I get started?

Thanks again!!

 

[Bruce]

its all about your source bro. orbit is not that prevalent british dragon is carried by almost everyone. i split my tbol, i don't think var is that hard on the liver so take it all at once

 

[Makavelli]

I think EQ would work great for what you're trying to accomplish.

 

[Bruce]

i do as well. if he has the loot for primo though more power to him, personally i think you should get eq and more anavar with the $$ you save, then run it at a killer dose like 75mg ed and you will be a very happy person

 

[ass_face]

My opinion differs greatly from the majority of individuals on here, but here it goes anyway:

After doing my first cycle in 1997 at the age of 28... I learned a few things. For myself the majority of my gains came in the first 4-6 weeks of a cycle. After that, it just seemed to be a waste of gear. I dabbloed with a 16 week cycle and it was the worst time of my life... the recovery, depression and overall malaise sucked so bad. This lead me to the conclusion: My cycles do not need to exceed 5 weeks.

Following this protocol, I do about three 5 week cycles a year. I do not compete, nor do have any desire to do so, but many people ask me if I do or if I will. I currently weigh between 225 and 230 at about 8%. I used to be 245 at about 10% when I was contemplating competing, but I felt the cartoon character bodybuilding body was not for me. Also, my ass response is much better at 220-230 at 7-8% than 245-250 at 10-11%.

I later read BTPB by Author Rea and he basically confirmed what I found through trial and error. After about 28-35 days, the human body begins to try to reach a homeostasis and balance itself. This means it begins to produce more cortisol, estrogen etc... to counteract the positive hormones in your blood. It is best to end the process before this balancing becomes out of hand and a pile of ancillaries is needed to recover. The only compound I use for recovery is Nolvadex at 20mg a day for 15 days. Nothing else is needed.

The great thing about this is that rather than trying to make all your gains in one monster 16 week cycle... you can do 5 weeks, take 10 off and repeat... each time you move up. and the 10 weeks off you still feel great. I would not cycle any other way. It is too bad we see all these horror stories about recovery issues, shrunken nuts and depression. If people switched to this protocol, they would be much happier... I know I am. Not only that, my growth is constant... not small one month and fucking huge the next.

 

[Bruce]

i respect that if its working for you bro, but my deca cycles don't yield any gains for 5-6 weeks, then its on like donkey kong, and the last one i shot up 22lbs and kept all of it with a bit of hcg and nolva. if i put on 10lbs in 5 weeks i would do that but its just not like that for me, i basically get stronger and feel pumps for 5 weeks and at week 6 the scale starts to go nuts. we are all different and our receptors are as well. i know a person who feels eq within 4 weeks while others feel it after 8 or 10.

 

[ass_face]

i respect that if its working for you bro, but my deca cycles don't yield any gains for 5-6 weeks, then its on like donkey kong, and the last one i shot up 22lbs and kept all of it with a bit of hcg and nolva. if i put on 10lbs in 5 weeks i would do that but its just not like that for me, i basically get stronger and feel pumps for 5 weeks and at week 6 the scale starts to go nuts. we are all different and our receptors are as well. i know a person who feels eq within 4 weeks while others feel it after 8 or 10.

I typically use shorter esters. Try Nandrolone Phenylpropionate rather decanoate. But, everything hits me fast. And just because you cease the cycle at 5 weeks, does not mean you will not continue to grow. The blood levels have been ramped up, you will do fine. Either way, I am sure you will be OK. I am just offering a different perspective for those that are looking for constant growth rather than sudden.

 

[Bruce]

no i have a book where the author swears on 3-5 week deca cycles because it does stay in your system. i am not bashing just those week 6-12 gains i need em like i need pussy

 

[Makavelli]

I also prefer longer cycles. I think that the gains are retained better than shorter ones since the body has time to acclimate to the new mass.

 

[Outtlaw]

I too have tried the short cycle thing (using all fast acting gear). It just didnt work for me. My gains dont come quick or all at once, and I actually prefer it that way. I can gain slowly and steadily over a 10-12wk peroid, and I keep my gains much better that way. The short cycle I ran, I gained very little and lost nearly everything.

 

[ass_face]

To each there own. As for settling into a weight... it is better to move up 5-10 pounds of lean mass (not body weight) than add 25-30 pounds of water, fat and and a little muscle. I prefer the slow and steady wins the race. I promise you... long cycles take their toll and are unnecessary.

Also, Outlaw... I think you need to think more in a one year period than a 5 week period. Sure you may take a step back, but the cumulative effect over a year will yield permanent changes with little to no supression. Also, I like a mix of Long acting and short. Prop, NPP/ Tren Enan,Test Cyp, EQ.

 

[glover]

ass_face,
Do you follow normal pct after your short cycles? I am interested in hearing more about those. I too would rather have small gains less fluctuation in body weight. What are some of your fav stacks now that you are approaching 40?
Thx

 

[jerseyboy0427]

EDIT - Mr.X

WARNING if you ask for sources again, you will be banned

 

[glover]

isn't anybody able to help me

I don't think your supposed to ask for a source. No one would help you even if that is what your asking. Read the stickys at the top!!

 

[jerseyboy0427]

i am so new to this, I'm sorry if i posted something that i wasn't suppose to. I didn't mean to guys..This site is just so wild and there is alot to take in. I am just so passionate about starting this new thing. I'm just trying to gain as much info as i can

 

[ass_face]

ass_face,
Do you follow normal pct after your short cycles? I am interested in hearing more about those. I too would rather have small gains less fluctuation in body weight. What are some of your fav stacks now that you are approaching 40?
Thx

The only pct is the nolva. I also load up on creatine and glutamine peptides.

Being a professional, I can't be gaining and losing 20 pounds, so a slow progression is the best way. Although, at this point, I just strive to be lean and hover around 225-235

My current stack is:
100 cyp/50mg prop/200mg Tren Enan and 300 of EQ every 3 days.
with 50mg of Winny ed (oral). This cycle will be more like a 7-8 week cycle due to the longer esters.

One of my favorites is:
NPP
Tren Acetate
Prop

Another:
Primo Acetate
Primo Enathate
Test Cyp
Anavar

 

[Outtlaw]

To each there own. As for settling into a weight... it is better to move up 5-10 pounds of lean mass (not body weight) than add 25-30 pounds of water, fat and and a little muscle. I prefer the slow and steady wins the race. I promise you... long cycles take their toll and are unnecessary.

Also, Outlaw... I think you need to think more in a one year period than a 5 week period. Sure you may take a step back, but the cumulative effect over a year will yield permanent changes with little to no supression. Also, I like a mix of Long acting and short. Prop, NPP/ Tren Enan,Test Cyp, EQ.

The cycle I ran I gained like 4-5lbs, and ended up with maybe a 1lb gain from the cycle. No way Im gonna run 5wk cycles for a gain of only 1lb at a time. I'd rather end up with a 10-15lb gain over a 10-12wk cycle. Just works better for me.

 

[Makavelli]

Let's look at real world examples of short vs. long cycles. What pro bb runs 5 wk cycles and is successful? None. All the top BB's, fitness models, etc run longer cycles. They know from years of experience that the gains are more permanent and they work better at adding mass. If the short cycle works for your goals, then that's cool. Understand that I'm not arguing whether it works for you or not. For most on this board they are trying to gain quality mass and/or get lean. This is best accomplished through longer cycles. I use the extreme examples of BB's because they are the extreme of what we're all trying to accomplish. Again, I'm not trying to argue with you assface, as I'm sure you like your gains that you're getting from your short cycles. I'm just proving a point for newbies that may go route thinking it's the best way when I don't think it is.

 

[ass_face]

Let's look at real world examples of short vs. long cycles. What pro bb runs 5 wk cycles and is successful? None. All the top BB's, fitness models, etc run longer cycles. They know from years of experience that the gains are more permanent and they work better at adding mass. If the short cycle works for your goals, then that's cool. Understand that I'm not arguing whether it works for you or not. For most on this board they are trying to gain quality mass and/or get lean. This is best accomplished through longer cycles. I use the extreme examples of BB's because they are the extreme of what we're all trying to accomplish. Again, I'm not trying to argue with you assface, as I'm sure you like your gains that you're getting from your short cycles. I'm just proving a point for newbies that may go route thinking it's the best way when I don't think it is.

Tony Freeman runs short cycles and he is fairly successful... there are more I am sure.

Well, I am more in favor of a quality life. I have no interest in looking like a pro bodybuilder. They look absolutely ridiculous. If that is your goal, then constant juicing is a must. If you are interested in being perpetually lean and muscular my method is better. I have no doubt. For me though, I can gain 10-20 pounds on a 5 week cycle easily. Others may not be as gifted.

As for being lean and muscular, being accomplished through longer cycles... I don't agree. Yes... in the short term... but the rollercoaster method of cycling is ineffecient. I would rather look good all the time while constantly improving.

It is a matter of taste. Shorter cycles require more discipline and patience, but the rewards are lasting... in addition to being much safer.

 

[Makavelli]

Tony Freeman runs short cycles and he is fairly successful... there are more I am sure.

Well, I am more in favor of a quality life. I have no interest in looking like a pro bodybuilder. They look absolutely ridiculous. If that is your goal, then constant juicing is a must. If you are interested in being perpetually lean and muscular my method is better. I have no doubt. For me though, I can gain 10-20 pounds on a 5 week cycle easily. Others may not be as gifted.

As for being lean and muscular, being accomplished through longer cycles... I don't agree. Yes... in the short term... but the rollercoaster method of cycling is ineffecient. I would rather look good all the time while constantly improving.

It is a matter of taste. Shorter cycles require more discipline and patience, but the rewards are lasting... in addition to being much safer.

Well I can't agree with you on two points:

1) If you do 6 short cycles a year vs. 2 long cycles a year, what's the difference as far as health is concerned? I don't see any. If you can gain 20 lbs of solid muscle in 5 weeks you are freak my man and should not even use AAS unless you're planning on competing, which you stated you are not. I wouldn't call a 12-16 week cycle a roller coaster. I've never seen a roller coaster that goes in a straight line for that long. Your method is more like a roller coaster since it's up and down over a short period. I'm sure you can agree with that. It doesn't matter I just don't like the analogy...

2) I didn't ask what BB's used short cycles, I asked what TOP BB's use shorter cycles. I don't consider Freeman a top BB. He has great potential, but won't realize it until he starts using longer cycles to acquire the type of mass a 6' 2" frame demands.

 

[ScienceGeek]

Good info assface.

3-4 week Prop only gains, for me, have been a dream come true. Like you said, you only grow for a few of the weeks of the longer cycles. It realy seems everyone responds differently to AAS. Experimentation is required.

 

[Outtlaw]

Tony Freeman runs short cycles and he is fairly successful... there are more I am sure.

Well, I am more in favor of a quality life. I have no interest in looking like a pro bodybuilder. They look absolutely ridiculous. If that is your goal, then constant juicing is a must. If you are interested in being perpetually lean and muscular my method is better. I have no doubt. For me though, I can gain 10-20 pounds on a 5 week cycle easily. Others may not be as gifted.

As for being lean and muscular, being accomplished through longer cycles... I don't agree. Yes... in the short term... but the rollercoaster method of cycling is ineffecient. I would rather look good all the time while constantly improving.

It is a matter of taste. Shorter cycles require more discipline and patience, but the rewards are lasting... in addition to being much safer.

You must be doing the roller coaster method because if you can gain anywhere close to 20lbs of muscle in a 5wk cycle, then after just 1 years worth of cycling you'd never have to cycle again. That is if you are keeping all your gains like you say.

 

[johnnya46]

So, how effective is an Anavar only cycle? How long do I run it? Is the QV any good?

 

[glover]

Back in 1981 when I ran my first cycle 6-8 weeks was the norm. Good results came from it. But back then top heavywght BB's would come into comp at 230lb now they come in at 270lb. The longer cycles or rather year round cycles are required to maintain that larger mass. I think this is worthy of a new thread to hear everyones opinion. What do ya think?

 

[BiG n Natural]

the past year i did 4 week on 4 week off bulking cycles of quick acting gear

prop, tren a, dbol, winnie

i made great gradual gains, id go up 10 pounds and keep at least 6 of it at then end of the 4 weeks off

i put on 25 pounds

this year i got a guy for eq prop, and am gona try NNP, var, t-bol, n primo tabs, so the cycles will b a good variation, and id like to stay away from tren b/c i dunt feel as if i am fully recovered for long enough until i start the next cycle

i was also thinkn about using slin while on for 2 weeks and and using it 2 weeks while im off while using igf-1 during all my off weeks

should b a great time for constant growth

the only cycle i have done over 4 weeks is my current one, which i want to look top shape for all of summer, tren prop n winny, n now im gona throw in var, and probably var n winnie for the month of august, so its less supressive on my system, and start sum hcg in the month of august, and use igf for the first time w/ pct

 

[dosandojo]

I like the Oxandrovet by Denkall, or the QVet Var, because they are 05mg each!!! and NOT that bad, as you can get them in Mex for AROUND a buck a pill...The Americans (they look like little white fooballs, and have 'BTG' stamped/written on them) SUCK, because they are ONLY 02.50mg, and cost EASILY a buck per....

 

[Makavelli]

I like the Oxandrovet by Denkall, or the QVet Var, because they are 05mg each!!! and NOT that bad, as you can get them in Mex for AROUND a buck a pill...The Americans (they look like little white fooballs, and have 'BTG' stamped/written on them) SUCK, because they are ONLY 02.50mg, and cost EASILY a buck per....

I agree that I like QV 'var, but the BTG has a great rep.

 

[ass_face]

You must be doing the roller coaster method because if you can gain anywhere close to 20lbs of muscle in a 5wk cycle, then after just 1 years worth of cycling you'd never have to cycle again. That is if you are keeping all your gains like you say.

Definitely not a rollercoaster. It is a constant uphill progression... with little to no supression. I never have the 12-16 week post cycle depression, libido loss etc. At 5 weeks, the body never gets supressed enough for this to happen.

I never said I keep all my gains every cycle... no one does. It is impossible. What you try to accomplish is a progression. When I started cycling I was 28, I weighed between 195-205, 7 years later I naturally settle in at 225-235. In 7 years I have added 25 pounds of "lean" mass. Lean mass that is mine to keep when off cycle for a year. Now, I could continue with this progression and eventually settle in a 245-255... but I think this is enough for me. I like to dress stylishly and look more athletic than huge. I have been at 245-250 when I was thinking of competing, but for my bone structure, it is not healthy or wise to carry that weight.

If longer cycles are working for you, don't change. I think once you reach your goal and you are happy with your size, shorter cycles may be a way to go to maintain and hone yourself.