Havoc cycle help

[Tom93]

Hey all, I'm new to the forum, and I'd like to start cycling, but I wanna start small. I was going to try havoc for 5 weeks at 20/30/30/30/40 for dosing. But first a little background info. I have been lifting a couple years now and have put on a decent amount of mass. I'm 5'8" 175 lbs around 12-13% bf. my nutrition is always on point and I am just looking for stronger gains. However I need to know what is the best cycle support to use, (I've heard there's no need for an ai?), and most important I don't have access to an actual pct so would I be okay using OTC pcts. I cannot get a straight answer from searching around so I'm just looking for help structuring everything on my first time, so that I get it right. Ready for potential flaming.
Thanks in advance

 

[WildRocker69]

First off, how old are you.? If you're under 21, forget about it keep researching and learning. If you're 21-24 I'd still say hold off, but that's my $.02. Also by "a couple years" do you mean like 2-3 or 5-8 years? If you've been lifting for less than 5 years- hold off on anything stronger than vities and a good preworkout.

Now for your questions.
1. Don't be fooled by Havoc/Epistane being called mild. You WILL still be shutdown because it is a STEROID. You will need legit PCT- a SERM. Plenty of info on the boards about them. OTC PCT will not be enough. Period. Unless you just so happen to have amazing testicular rebound genetics...
2. It's doubtful you would need an AI on-cycle due to the nature of Epi. BUT you may be super prone to gyno like me. You MAY be able to get away with an OTC AI like Erase or 6-Bromo. Have it on hand as a just in case.
3. At the bare minimum pre-load 1-2 weeks ahead with milk thistle and run it during and after the cycle. Epi is methylated. You can find plenty of good cycle-support products out there. A lot of guys on the board suggest HCGenerate. I've never tried it so can't say one way or the other.

Answer my questions, ask some questions about what I said, then we'll talk cycle design.

 

[dasitmane]

get some liv52, hawthorn, and a good all around cycle support

im not sure what is best in the case of epistane for pct

but probably a serm + a good post cycle support supp

 

[WildRocker69]

P.s. If you drink alcohol, don't. Stop 2 weeks prior to beginning your cycle, get on your cycle support/add milk thistle on top of it. A healthy liver makes for a better and safer cycle.y

 

[Tom93]

Thanks for replies. In answer to first post, I'm 21, I have been lifting since 18, but didn't have proper nutrition till a year later. I don't drink however consume a good deal of caffeine daily. I have a bottle of erase on hand. That's what I was afraid of though that I would need something stronger for my pct.

 

[WildRocker69]

Yep. Ruining your HPTAxis at 21 would be quite bad.

 

[ForeverSmall]

Epi is great. One of my favorite orals.

Don't fuck around with the "get your feet wet" bullshit. Start with 60mg a day and take for 4-6 weeks.

 

[Tom93]

Hmm 60? I checked into the hcgenerate and everyone else seems to like it. Would it be wise to take this during cycle plus pct?

 

[steveff]

I'm going to be doing 5 weeks of Epi in about 2 months. I plan on doing 30/30/45/45/45 dosing (my caps are 15mg). I'll be running it alongside RS Transaderm but that doesn't change anything. HcGenerate also on cycle.
I'm either double dosing Anabolic Innovations Cycle Support or buying ingredients individually (TUDCA, hawthorne, Liv52, etc).
Using Formastanzol as on-cycle AI.

PCT:
Clomid @50/50/25/25
Post Cycle/ Unleashed
DAA @3/3/3/3
Erase @3/3/2/1
Ostarine MK-2866 @25/25/25/12.5