God's Army:

[Mr. dB]

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/122107J.shtml

The Christian right has been successful in spreading its fundamentalist agenda at US military installations around the world for decades. But the movement's meteoric rise in the US military came in large part after 9/11 and immediately after the US invaded Iraq in March of 2003. At a time when the United States is encouraging greater religious freedom in Muslim nations, soldiers on the battlefield have told disturbing stories of being force-fed fundamentalist Christianity by highly controversial, apocalyptic "End Times" evangelists, who have infiltrated US military installations throughout the world with the blessing of high-level officials at the Pentagon. Proselytizing among military personnel has been conducted openly, in violation of the basic tenets of the United States Constitution.

 

[jack sparrow]

I'm afraid to give my opinion here dB...I'm not as well spoken as some on this board.

 

[Spartacus]

I'd side with the christians over that muslim/islam crap
let's get rid of them
you dont think?

 

[jack sparrow]

I'd side with the christians over that muslim/islam crap
let's get rid of them
you dont think?

^^^See what I mean?

 

[FISHTALES]

kill em all, let god sort 'em out

 

[Lestat]

muslims are the Christians of earlier generations! The Christian religion went through its violent brutal times, why are we so hard on other religions that simply do the same thing?

We're in a catch 22. We know that fundamentalist Islam is destructive to the lives of non muslims, but we can't denounce it outright and still respect fundamental Christian or Jewish beliefs here at home.

 

[Powerbuilder333]

^^^ What?
We can respect all people of all religions that follow the laws of common decency, i.e. don't blow up your neighbors in unprovoked attacks.
Lets remember the #1 victim (so far) of Islamic Fundementalism is other muslims.

 

[Lestat]

^^^ What?
We can respect all people of all religions that follow the laws of common decency, i.e. don't blow up your neighbors in unprovoked attacks.
Lets remember the #1 victim (so far) of Islamic Fundementalism is other muslims.

Christians killed unprovoked en mass before, but according to them it must have been within the laws of decency?

If the biggest victim of Islam is other believers of Islam, then why do we care?

 

[PICK3]

kill em all, let god sort 'em out

^^^
roid rage

 

[javaguru]

Christians killed unprovoked en mass before, but according to them it must have been within the laws of decency?

If the biggest victim of Islam is other believers of Islam, then why do we care?

Don't forget the christian terrorists.

"Stephen John Jordi, who was turned in by relatives and church members, received the minimum mandatory sentence. U.S. District Judge James Cohn rejected a prosecution request for a prison term of seven to 10 years. The judge said federal sentencing rules require that plots have an international component to be considered terrorism. ... Jordi, a former Army Ranger, pleaded guilty in February to attempted arson of an abortion clinic in exchange for prosecutors dropping charges of spreading explosive information and possessing an unregistered firearm. Jordi told the informant that he planned to carry out the bombings for 30 to 40 years or until he was caught, a comment that left the judge "troubled" that Jordi's "very strong convictions" might make him dangerous after his release. Jordi corresponded with Paul Hill, who was executed last September for murdering a Pensacola abortion doctor and his volunteer escort."

 

[redguru]

muslims are the Christians of earlier generations! The Christian religion went through its violent brutal times, why are we so hard on other religions that simply do the same thing?

We're in a catch 22. We know that fundamentalist Islam is destructive to the lives of non muslims, but we can't denounce it outright and still respect fundamental Christian or Jewish beliefs here at home.

The difference is that Islam hasn't progressed at all since the 7th Century. if 15% of all Muslims agree with Bin Laden's tactics, that's a significant number.

 

[Mr. dB]

Doesn't anyone else find religious recruiting during basic training to be unethical? These boys in basic are in a very vulnerable position, already getting their minds fucked and spirit broken on a daily basis to make them trainable, having all their independence and self-determination stripped away from them and replaced with blind obedience and a groupthink mentality. Taking advantage of that to make them more receptive to religious propaganda at the same time is, uh, like shooting fish in a barrel.

 

[redguru]

Doesn't anyone else find religious recruiting during basic training to be unethical? These boys in basic are in a very vulnerable position, already getting their minds fucked and spirit broken on a daily basis to make them trainable, having all their independence and self-determination stripped away from them and replaced with blind obedience and a groupthink mentality. Taking advantage of that to make them more receptive to religious propaganda at the same time is, uh, like shooting fish in a barrel.

I know I found it disgusting and that was in 1984. In boot camp, we were given certain flags for achievements such as drill, inspections, and academics. One flag our Company could earn was the Chapel flag, requiring 100% attendence in religious ceremonies weekly. We'd go to the Chapel, sign in and then promptly leave. But to be the best honored company in the Graduation class, we needed that Flag. The Chaplain Corps is a very powerful group of Officers in the US Military.

 

[redguru]

We basically got four hours off a week to do what we wanted within the confines of the base. To be required to spend an hour of that in Religious Worship we didn't necessarily believe in galled us.

 

[hanselthecaretaker]

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/122107J.shtml

The Christian right has been successful in spreading its fundamentalist agenda at US military installations around the world for decades. But the movement's meteoric rise in the US military came in large part after 9/11 and immediately after the US invaded Iraq in March of 2003. At a time when the United States is encouraging greater religious freedom in Muslim nations, soldiers on the battlefield have told disturbing stories of being force-fed fundamentalist Christianity by highly controversial, apocalyptic "End Times" evangelists, who have infiltrated US military installations throughout the world with the blessing of high-level officials at the Pentagon. Proselytizing among military personnel has been conducted openly, in violation of the basic tenets of the United States Constitution.

Yet another reason it's foolish to join the military these days. We really need to gtfo of the Middle East and start first taking care of problems domestically.

 

[javaguru]

Doesn't anyone else find religious recruiting during basic training to be unethical? These boys in basic are in a very vulnerable position, already getting their minds fucked and spirit broken on a daily basis to make them trainable, having all their independence and self-determination stripped away from them and replaced with blind obedience and a groupthink mentality. Taking advantage of that to make them more receptive to religious propaganda at the same time is, uh, like shooting fish in a barrel.

By going to church we also got an hour in air conditioning, the chapel was the only air conditioned building, very attractive for someone dealing with Oklahoma heat in August.

How about indoctrinating children as they even start to receive the rudiments of formal education, Jesus Camp style?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_EKHK1C2IE

 

[Spartacus]

red finally got around to increasing his sig font size I see

 

[rnch]

By going to church we also got an hour in air conditioning, the chapel was the only air conditioned building, very attractive for someone dealing with Oklahoma heat in August......

quoting the SNL character "the church lady" : "how con-vieeeeeeeeeen-yit!"

 

[Mr. dB]

I suppose to the evangelicals, any opportunity for a new recruit is fair game.

 

[eddymerckx]

Don't forget the christian terrorists.
."

like the one in the white house

 

[javaguru]

like the one in the white house

He prayed and God told him to invade Iraq, what more convincing do you need that Iraq was an immediate threat to the United States?

 

[eddymerckx]

He prayed and God told him to invade Iraq, what more convincing do you need that Iraq was an immediate threat to the United States?

and had weekly phone calls with your avatar....the man's judgment is flawless

insert rolled eyes and sarcastic smirk here

 

[javaguru]

and had weekly phone calls with your avatar....the man's judgment is flawless

insert rolled eyes and sarcastic smirk here

While Cheney was flying off to secret meetings with Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell.

 

[eddymerckx]

While Cheney was flying off to secret meetings with Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell.

it would be funny--if it was not true

 

[javaguru]

it would be funny--if it was not true

After Falwell died he was being praised by the Christian right for bringing the evangelicals into politics.

 

[GoldenDelicious]

muslims are the Christians of earlier generations! The Christian religion went through its violent brutal times, why are we so hard on other religions that simply do the same thing?

1) im hard on anyone/anything that kills for no good reason, regardless of other people having killed for no good reason first
2) i dont think that it is unreasonable that in this day and age, what with better communication between groups, the highest literacy rates in history, availability of information etc that people learn faster than did early christians

 

[javaguru]

1) im hard on anyone/anything that kills for no good reason, regardless of other people having killed for no good reason first
2) i dont think that it is unreasonable that in this day and age, what with better communication between groups, the highest literacy rates in history, availability of information etc that people learn faster than did early christians

"People are as stupid as they have always been", they just have fewer excuses...

 

[Mr. dB]

muslims are the Christians of earlier generations! The Christian religion went through its violent brutal times, why are we so hard on other religions that simply do the same thing?

So when are the Muslims gonna go through their version of The Enlightenment already?

 

[javaguru]

So when are the Muslims gonna go through their version of The Enlightenment already?

Not anytime soon....

 

[Spartacus]

He prayed and God told him to invade Iraq, what more convincing do you need that Iraq was an immediate threat to the United States?

in reality let's try and name the top six men that made the decision to invade Iraq

was Rove in on it?
Cheney definitely
Rumsfeld?
others?

 

[jackangel]

lol at lestat

* shakes head *

 

[pappad]

I'd side with the christians over that muslim/islam crap
let's get rid of them
you dont think?

Oh Yeah!!

 

[javaguru]

in reality let's try and name the top six men that made the decision to invade Iraq

was Rove in on it?
Cheney definitely
Rumsfeld?
others?

We do know Bush ignored his father's advice, and some of his father's former chief advisers. The only US administration to wage a quick and decisive conflict in the Mid East with the support of Muslim countries.Remember, he's "the decider" and apparently God has the final say.

 

[rnch]

We do know Bush ignored his father's advice, and some of his father's former chief advisers. The only US administration to wage a quick and decisive conflict in the Mid East with the support of Muslim countries.Remember, he's "the decider" and apparently God has the final say.

didja ever notice that dads and babs didn't camapign for their little boy? or was even seen in public with him during the elections? i guess we all know why now.....

 

[javaguru]

didja ever notice that dads and babs didn't camapign for their little boy? or was even seen in public with him during the elections? i guess we all know why now.....

"Sons were put on this planet to trouble their fathers."

 

[Mr. dB]

in reality let's try and name the top six men that made the decision to invade Iraq

was Rove in on it?
Cheney definitely
Rumsfeld?
others?

Wolfowitz and Perle

 

[Spartacus]

We do know Bush ignored his father's advice, and some of his father's former chief advisers. The only US administration to wage a quick and decisive conflict in the Mid East with the support of Muslim countries.Remember, he's "the decider" and apparently God has the final say.

he left business unfinished

 

[redsamurai]

the actions of the followers of all the major religions concern me..........I don't think alot of y'all are ascending very high once you leave here. Not saying y'all going to hell..........you're just not going as high as the people who are "waking up".

 

[Longhorn85]

Chaplains in the military are a long-standing American tradition. Freedom of religion means freedom to worship, and soldiers have always been provided clergy, bibles, time off, etc for doing this. No coincidence that the majority of chaplains are Christian, most soldiers are.

All are not evangelical though, in my years in the Army I have met chaplains from just about every brand of protestantism, catholicism, judaism and islam. We also have mormons and even wiccans (which I disgree with).

No one is forced to attend services, they are provided for those who ask for it, and many do.

Chaplains also play a role as social worker and counselor to the soldier and commanders. They are a valuable asset to our military.

http://www.goarmy.com/chaplain/

 

[billfred]

in reality let's try and name the top six men that made the decision to invade Iraq

was Rove in on it?
Cheney definitely
Rumsfeld?
others?

My theory is it was Cheney alone. That is the way I choose to see it. He was still pissed Sr. did not go into Bagdad last time. He carries W's brain around in a little bucket and tells it what to do - and that is what he did.

I say Colin P was against it (both times) and why he left shortly after.

 

[Longhorn85]

in reality let's try and name the top six men that made the decision to invade Iraq

was Rove in on it?
Cheney definitely
Rumsfeld?
others?

Men and Woman:
W
Cheney
Rumsfeld
Powell
Rice
Wolfowitz
Dick Armitage

Also have to add the Senate Majority Leader and Speaker of the House at the time, they were in the loop.

 

[wynem]

Invading Iraq had nothing to do with religion............
It`s about power...oil....money

POOR saps sent to fight for nothing more than maintaining economic dominace.
Muslim/christian indifference exploited to the max to give credibility to a war that will leave untold missery on both sides.
Wars...so easy to begin...yet impossible to end.

 

[Longhorn85]

POOR saps sent to fight for nothing more than maintaining economic dominace.

I don't think that anyone in the US military needs or wants your pity. The war has been going on since 2002, so anyone who wanted to quit already has.

Thousands have volunteered since, and they know exactly what they are getting into.

 

[Spartacus]

I'm in the minority but I think it was a good forward thinking move
it's been messy but noone gets war perfect
noone

 

[redsamurai]

I don't think that anyone in the US military needs or wants your pity. The war has been going on since 2002, so anyone who wanted to quit already has.

Thousands have volunteered since, and they know exactly what they are getting into.

So they had to initiate the "stop loss" program why?

If they stay too much longer they'll have to start the draft.

 

[Powerbuilder333]

So they had to initiate the "stop loss" program why?

If they stay too much longer they'll have to start the draft.

Re-enlistment rates are at a all time high. Sure so are re-enlistment bonuses, but our brave troops deserve every penny IMO.
The stop loss program was initiated to maintain unit integrity and fighting cohesiveness, and to prevent the FNG (funkin' new guy) syndrom that occured in Vietnam. I'm not sure if that's even in use anymore.
The only politicians that support the draft are Dem's that want to stir up controversy.

 

[Longhorn85]

The only politicians that support the draft are Dem's that want to stir up controversy.

Exactly. Namely Charles Rangel. No republican has called for it, yet libs like RS are constantly bitching about it.

 

[rnch]

...so are re-enlistment bonuses, but our brave troops deserve every penny IMO...

on this we can agree.

 

[redguru]

So they had to initiate the "stop loss" program why?

If they stay too much longer they'll have to start the draft.

Where are you getting your information? You haven't a clue how the military works.

 

[Spartacus]

you dont say

 

[plifter]

New recruits are down. Re-enlistment may be high but a lot are being bribed with bonuses. I even read an article where they said that the military is threatening to use the stop loss order to keep people in the military and make sure they are sent back to Iraq if they don't voluntarily reenlist. That's sort of a draft in itself.

 

[Powerbuilder333]

Retention/recruiting statistics from 2006. http://usmilitary.about.com/od/joiningthemilitary/a/06recruiting.htm
I have goose bumps from the pride I feel towards our military men and women.

 

[Longhorn85]

Re-enlistment may be high but a lot are being bribed with bonuses.

When an employee in the private sector receives a bonus is it considered a bribe as well?

 

[mrplunkey]

I'm in the minority but I think it was a good forward thinking move
it's been messy but noone gets war perfect
noone

I'm with you on this one. Front-end of the occupation could have been handled better, says this monday-morning quarterback.

It'll eventually get cleaned-up and stand as a testament to the US's ability to nation-rebuild when some petty thug dictator wants to destabilize a region. They used to put heads on spikes at the tower of london for a reason.