Global warming?

[javaguru]

the clean air acts have saved probably hundreds of thousands of lives

Citation?

The common law dealt with pollution based on property rights as far back as the 18th century. If someone pollutes your shit then they pay damages or suffer an injunction. It was the progressive courts of the 19th Century that created the "common good" that allowed pollution.

 

[javaguru]

How time appropriate....

How free markets will beat climate change...

 

[redsamurai]

Citation?

The common law dealt with pollution based on property rights as far back as the 18th century. If someone pollutes your shit then they pay damages or suffer an injunction. It was the progressive courts of the 19th Century that created the "common good" that allowed pollution.

and who/what would enforce that injuction java? Pollution is a byproduct of capitalism btw. Capitalism is about doing what you can, not what you should. Corruption is at the core of capitalism because in it's purest sense, it is the complete and total absence of "ANY" governing body whatsoever. Now on another planet somewhere with another species, things may be different. But here, for humans, capitalism is corruption at the most breathtaking of levels. It's a swinetrough, no more no less. Communism is really no different, just the same corruption wrapped up in a differnt style of wrapping paper.

 

[redsamurai]

How time appropriate....

How free markets will beat climate change...

ahhh, so free market capitalism...which was the cause of the rampant toxification of our entire atmosphere and ecosystem, is also now the solution? Didnt' a wise man once muse about beer the same way...it being the cause and the solution to all of life's problems...?

 

[redsamurai]

sorry java but this guys in fairy tale land, he doesn't get what's coming. He thinks "richer cities" are going to adapt better to climate change....he doesnt' get that if some of the worst prognosis come to pass, actually some of those poorer people who have been working outdoors their whole lives are going to fare the best. They're made of stouter stuff. Soft westies are gonna drop out. I'm sure you've read about Mao and what hed did to his people during the Great Leap, just imagine what would happen if you did that to average americans.

How time appropriate....

How free markets will beat climate change...

 

[brownbrown]

and who/what would enforce that injuction java? Pollution is a byproduct of capitalism btw. Capitalism is about doing what you can, not what you should. Corruption is at the core of capitalism because in it's purest sense, it is the complete and total absence of "ANY" governing body whatsoever. Now on another planet somewhere with another species, things may be different. But here, for humans, capitalism is corruption at the most breathtaking of levels. It's a swinetrough, no more no less. Communism is really no different, just the same corruption wrapped up in a differnt style of wrapping paper.

He doesnt directly anwser questions. He'll just quote someone else or post a YouTube video.


DrOiD BioNiC EF App!

 

[nimbus]

Citation?

The common law dealt with pollution based on property rights as far back as the 18th century. If someone pollutes your shit then they pay damages or suffer an injunction. It was the progressive courts of the 19th Century that created the "common good" that allowed pollution.

they aren't about personal property, they are about the ambient air quality in entire regions containing too many pollutants, and causing respiratory and cardiac complications and premature deaths as a result. The average person can't measure the quality of the air they breathe or who is polluting it, and even if they could, they could never get properly compensated for the premature deaths of themselves or loved ones. It is just isn't feasible for private citizens to clean the air through civil litigation. As a result, major polluters are regulated at the source and are forced to comply with emissions standards so that the cumulative pollution from all emitters doesn't exceed dangerous concentrations.

here is a citation for the benefits: http://www.epa.gov/air/sect812/feb11/fullreport.pdf

 

[javaguru]

they aren't about personal property, they are about the ambient air quality in entire regions containing too many pollutants, and causing respiratory and cardiac complications and premature deaths as a result. The average person can't measure the quality of the air they breathe or who is polluting it, and even if they could, they could never get properly compensated for the premature deaths of themselves or loved ones. It is just isn't feasible for private citizens to clean the air through civil litigation. As a result, major polluters are regulated at the source and are forced to comply with emissions standards so that the cumulative pollution from all emitters doesn't exceed dangerous concentrations.

here is a citation for the benefits: http://www.epa.gov/air/sect812/feb11/fullreport.pdf

Do you watch TV? I can't go a day without seeing a commercial for a class action lawsuit where a law firm is looking for more people to join the class. Hell, I've gotten letters for at least six class action suits against Volkswagen for minor issues that caused zero deaths or injuries. Don't you think those lawyers won't form a class action lawsuit against polluters if it was allowed?

 

[javaguru]

ahhh, so free market capitalism...which was the cause of the rampant toxification of our entire atmosphere and ecosystem, is also now the solution? Didnt' a wise man once muse about beer the same way...it being the cause and the solution to all of life's problems...?

Not really, the concept of the "public good" where everyone must tolerate pollution is a government invention.

 

[redsamurai]

Not really, the concept of the "public good" where everyone must tolerate pollution is a government invention.

java you're stuck in the world of left/right, black/white, communism/capitalism. Pollution would be rampant in this country no matter what system of govt we employed. But if we want to get specific it's the crony pseudo capitalism we have in this country that is responsible for our environement. If somebody somewhere can make money from some process, even if it's dirty...they'll pay the right people. If there was no govt at all in this country they'd still do it because there's money to be made.