Girlies and Gear

Tatyana · Mar 25, 2008

Hey ladies,

I had to go and nick some info from a woman I know who does have a lot of personal experience with AAS.

I still advice caution, and I would prefer to see women manipulating diet and training techniques for the desired results.

A lot of maintaining mass while dieting is related to how you are training, there has to be some heavy work thrown into the mix, and dieting, well either dieting slowly, or hit it hard and fast (biochemical individuality).

Here is some more info about Winni and Anavar (and a few others as I find them) from someone who will remain nameless right now:

what is it that you are expecting from a cycle, did you do your research so you know what to expect, what is your goal (and is it a reasonable and appropriate goal for an AAS cycle) and is your diet & training already spot on? If no, don't bother. Come back in 2 years when you've got some time invested and have successfully applied discipline and consistency instead of relying on the drugs. No quicky fixes or magic pills.

I'm still going to go w/ the conservative approach and not recommend stacking stuff you've never used before. Women are immensely more sensitive to AAS than men so if something is overdosed or not what you think it is, that can really F you up. The next step is that only each individual will know how they react to each compound and whether or not they are ok w/ the sides they get. I'd start exactly w/ ver at 5 mg ED for 1.5 - 2 weeks and if no adverse effects, then up to 10 mg ED for 12-ish weeks. YOu can run this stuff at low doses for a relatively long time. (Not forever. but for longer than guys can.)

It is a huge jump in sides from var to primo so its not like its linearly stronger from var or something like that. Primo is often recommended for women as an option past anavar. Winstrol is another one, I guess because it has always tended to be widely available and more affordable than primo. Primo in past years has had a history of being faked a lot and its not cheap.

I think that the faking is happening less but dont' quote me. Both winstrol & primo are much more androgenic than anavar. Neither converts to estrogen so you dont' get the water retention from something that aromatizes sot hey are good for cutting. Sides like hair loss and acne are much more pronounced for primo and primo, though shorter acting than Equipoise, is still a longer clear time than wintrol or var. It takes about 5 weeks to actually 'kick in' as well... also much longer than var or winny.

For sides, you can expect the following of any AAS in varying degrees. Everything except var is going to have most of these sides:

- hairloss
- acne / oily skin / hair
- enlarged & more sensitive clitoris
- potential for vaginosis / yeast infections
- higher blood pressure - occassional bloody noses are not uncommon
- increase in bad cholestrol
- sometimes trouble sleeping (CNS stimulation)
- menstrual cycle will be interrupted
- sometimes something like a flu will hit when your body is acclimating to the presence of the new compound -- guys often talk about "sus flu" -- same thing.

If the compound converts to estrogen, you also get some estrogenic effects like water retention.

Generally everything related to increased presence of DHT.

I invite you to check out the link in the previous post about AAS half lives & clear times and also google "steroid profiles" to get more info. THere is a lot of info out there about the compounds themselves.

As I mentioned above, I'm just not a big fan of stacking stuff you've never used before, much less having never used anything... its always your own personal experiment - not trying to scare anyone,, but if shit happens what are you going to do? You're self-medicating w/ male hormones possible gotten from website selling stuff from Afghanistan.

That's not exactly a guaranteed and safe thing to stick in your body... so the woman using this stuff needs to be responsible for educating herself so she can make informed decisions and take an intelligent & conservative approach to each new compound she chooses to introduce into her system.

If something does happen or you decide you dont' like the sides, how soon before it clears your system and the sides go away? Its not like "The minute I see the first side effect, I'll stop." If you are using primo, for example, you can stop as fast as you want, you still have that compound in your system for the next several weeks. So the hair will continue to come out, your period won't show up for a while and you may get acne until its all clear.

Just saying you need to manage it at every step. It is on you - anyone else can recommend any cycle or any approach, even the husband / boyfriend / whoever w/ the best intentions. Its still YOU that has to deal w/ any sides.

GUARDIAN · Mar 25, 2008

Great post as always TAT! You should make some small modifications for new male/female AAS users and post it in the steroid forum. Thread of the week!

Tatyana said:
Hey ladies,

I had to go and nick some info from a woman I know who does have a lot of personal experience with AAS.

I still advice caution, and I would prefer to see women manipulating diet and training techniques for the desired results.

A lot of maintaining mass while dieting is related to how you are training, there has to be some heavy work thrown into the mix, and dieting, well either dieting slowly, or hit it hard and fast (biochemical individuality).

Here is some more info about Winni and Anavar (and a few others as I find them) from someone who will remain nameless right now:

what is it that you are expecting from a cycle, did you do your research so you know what to expect, what is your goal (and is it a reasonable and appropriate goal for an AAS cycle) and is your diet & training already spot on? If no, don't bother. Come back in 2 years when you've got some time invested and have successfully applied discipline and consistency instead of relying on the drugs. No quicky fixes or magic pills.

I'm still going to go w/ the conservative approach and not recommend stacking stuff you've never used before. Women are immensely more sensitive to AAS than men so if something is overdosed or not what you think it is, that can really F you up. The next step is that only each individual will know how they react to each compound and whether or not they are ok w/ the sides they get. I'd start exactly w/ ver at 5 mg ED for 1.5 - 2 weeks and if no adverse effects, then up to 10 mg ED for 12-ish weeks. YOu can run this stuff at low doses for a relatively long time. (Not forever. but for longer than guys can.)

It is a huge jump in sides from var to primo so its not like its linearly stronger from var or something like that. Primo is often recommended for women as an option past anavar. Winstrol is another one, I guess because it has always tended to be widely available and more affordable than primo. Primo in past years has had a history of being faked a lot and its not cheap.

I think that the faking is happening less but dont' quote me. Both winstrol & primo are much more androgenic than anavar. Neither converts to estrogen so you dont' get the water retention from something that aromatizes sot hey are good for cutting. Sides like hair loss and acne are much more pronounced for primo and primo, though shorter acting than Equipoise, is still a longer clear time than wintrol or var. It takes about 5 weeks to actually 'kick in' as well... also much longer than var or winny.

For sides, you can expect the following of any AAS in varying degrees. Everything except var is going to have most of these sides:

- hairloss
- acne / oily skin / hair
- enlarged & more sensitive clitoris
- potential for vaginosis / yeast infections
- higher blood pressure - occassional bloody noses are not uncommon
- increase in bad cholestrol
- sometimes trouble sleeping (CNS stimulation)
- menstrual cycle will be interrupted
- sometimes something like a flu will hit when your body is acclimating to the presence of the new compound -- guys often talk about "sus flu" -- same thing.

If the compound converts to estrogen, you also get some estrogenic effects like water retention.

Generally everything related to increased presence of DHT.

I invite you to check out the link in the previous post about AAS half lives & clear times and also google "steroid profiles" to get more info. THere is a lot of info out there about the compounds themselves.

As I mentioned above, I'm just not a big fan of stacking stuff you've never used before, much less having never used anything... its always your own personal experiment - not trying to scare anyone,, but if shit happens what are you going to do? You're self-medicating w/ male hormones possible gotten from website selling stuff from Afghanistan.

That's not exactly a guaranteed and safe thing to stick in your body... so the woman using this stuff needs to be responsible for educating herself so she can make informed decisions and take an intelligent & conservative approach to each new compound she chooses to introduce into her system.

If something does happen or you decide you dont' like the sides, how soon before it clears your system and the sides go away? Its not like "The minute I see the first side effect, I'll stop." If you are using primo, for example, you can stop as fast as you want, you still have that compound in your system for the next several weeks. So the hair will continue to come out, your period won't show up for a while and you may get acne until its all clear.

Just saying you need to manage it at every step. It is on you - anyone else can recommend any cycle or any approach, even the husband / boyfriend / whoever w/ the best intentions. Its still YOU that has to deal w/ any sides.

gymdiva20 · Mar 25, 2008

Hi tatyana,
Did your friend say anything about NPP (nandrolone phenylpropionate) specifically in comparison to winny and primo? Has anybody used this before and with what results?
(I read the aas sticky that talked about it being a good alternative)

Thandie · Mar 25, 2008

Thank you Tatyana for taking the time and gathering this information.
In my case I don't want to stack, just want the Anavar for cutting.

I am normally very smal, so adding size is not easy. I've been eating tons of carbs/protein in order to get some muscles. Therefore need something to cut without losing the size. I've already done it natural, but by the time I get cut I'm 104lbs and I want to be a bit bigger for this contest.

Thanks again!

Thandie

Tatyana · Mar 25, 2008

thandie said:
Thank you Tatyana for taking the time and gathering this information.
In my case I don't want to stack, just want the Anavar for cutting.

I am normally very smal, so adding size is not easy. I've been eating tons of carbs/protein in order to get some muscles. Therefore need something to cut without losing the size. I've already done it natural, but by the time I get cut I'm 104lbs and I want to be a bit bigger for this contest.

Thanks again!

Thandie

BBing is all about illusion, so when you are dieted down, you will look a lot bigger and more muscular.

I know people have thought I was MASSIVE in comp pics, when I am actually about a UK size 4-6, and look really tiny in clothing.

I have also met a few of the current IFBB pro female BBers, and it always surprises me at how TINY they are when you meet them.

No steroid is really for 'cutting', they are all designed to build muscle.

Tatyana · Mar 25, 2008

I have to re-post this as I think that the info from Amazon Doll is invaluable

I would look to your diet and training first, when you have that sorted, you can have it sorted for life, whereas there are some experts in the area of steroids, such as William Llewellyn (author of all the anabolics 200_ guides), who have said that women may only keep their gains from anavar for 6 months.

My first coach also used gear, she was an IFBB pro, and she has told me a lot of scary scary stories.

One thing that always sticks out in my mind is that a lot of women do not get sides until they come OFF the cycle, and that could be anywhere from 6-9 months later.

Seriously consider this before you choose to use or not to use.

Here is a post from another female bodybuilder, Amazon Doll who is experienced with steroids.

I've done my fair share of cycles over the years and know quite a few women that have as well.

Here are some things that I have come to believe:

For Females: Keeping Virilization to a Level you can Live With while Using anabolic androgenic steroids.
By Amazon Doll.

1. If you start to get sides while you are on a cycle, there is no guarantee that the sides will go away once you stop.

2. By using fast acting esters, you can drop the cycle immediately and maybe, just maybe the sides will go away. 90% of the time they do......but not always.

3. As soon as you get sides you don't want to live with, drop the cycle. Maybe the sides will go away, maybe not. Figure out ahead of time what will YOU be willing to live with for the rest of your life and if you get to that point with your sides, don't go beyond them. Stopping the cycle then may prevent further sides.

4. That sore throat is not allergies or a cold or you over-training, it is the thickening of your vocal cords and it may not ever go back to the way it was before your cycle

5. Lets say (hypothetically) you do 3 cycles and you get rid of 98% of your sides at the end of each one. You will still have 6% more masculinization than before you ever started doing them. That's only 3 cycles....what does 5 years of cycles look like on you?

6. All the women I know that have used steriods look it somewhere on their body.

7. Before you decide to use anabolic androgenic steroids figure on this: No matter how small your cycles, you will have probably always have: some hairs to pluck on your upper lip or chin, your clit will be a little larger, that squeaking in your voice is the beginnings of voice changes and it might not go away.

8. Don't let anyone tell you that Anavar - oxandrolone - is safe as far as sides. My voice is very effected by Anavar - oxandrolone - and my clit is as well.

9. Women! You will gain weight when you do a cycle. If you can't handle a few pounds, maybe this stuff is not for you. Water weight combined with muscle growth will make you look bigger & thicker. Your face may get puffy even if you are dieting while on. Most women don't look very "pretty " while on.

10. Dieting while on will not give you new muscle growth, just help you hold some muscle you have while you cut. Most cutting can be done with proper diet & exercise and not have the chances of virilization anabolic androgenic steroids gives.

11. Not eating enough protein and at regular intervals throughout the day, will be like throwing your gear down the toilet but keeping the potential sides. Proper training & eating up to, during and after is your cycle will help you hold the gains you made. Don't do what so many do and fall off the training & nutritional wagon once your cycles over or you loose it all and the sides stay.

It's all about fine tuning the diet because a female will get sides and I don't care what anyone says, a female will get sides.

Tatyana · Mar 25, 2008

Anabolic and Androgenic Ratings of Steroids

Definitions of ANABOLIC on the Web:

Pertaining to anabolism, the metabolic process of building tissue from simpler molecules.
www.amfar.org/cgi-bin/iowa/bridge.html

The building up in the body into more complex substances from simpler ones. Part of the Lipo-Oxidative Control System involving the balance of anabolic / catabolic processes in the body. ...
livingbalance.us/glossary.php

Synthesis, opposite of catabolic. Relating to, characterised by or promoting anabolism.
www.project-aware.org/Health/Osteo/osteo-gloss.shtml

Promoting anabolism. Specifically, an agent or function that stimulates the organization of smaller substances into larger ones. Examples: making a starch out of sugars, a protein out of amino acids, or making triglycerides out of fatty acids are anabolic functions. ...
www.healthsuperstore.com/glossary/glossary-a2.aspx

promoting anabolism
www.steroidtips.com/steroidterms.htm

of or related to the synthetic phase of metabolism
characterized by or promoting constructive metabolism; "some athletes take anabolic steroids to increase muscle size temporarily"
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

Anabolism is the metabolic process that builds larger molecules from smaller ones. One way of categorizing metabolic processes, whether at the cellular, organ or organism level is as 'anabolic' or 'catabolic', which is the opposite. ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anabolic

Definitions of Androgenic on the Web:

This refers to the hormones which stimulate the sebaceous glands to produce sebum.
www.acneway.com/glossary.html

of or related to the male hormone androgen
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

Androgen is the generic term for any natural or synthetic compound, usually a steroid hormone, that stimulates or controls the development and maintenance of masculine characteristics in vertebrates by binding to androgen receptors. ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Androgenic

The higher the number the more androgenic or anabolic the compound is.

As a woman, if you have concerns about virilisation, or developing more male characteristics, then highly androgenic compounds should be avoided.

Compound:------------------------------Androgenic------Anabolic
1-Testosterone--------------------------100------200
Anabolicum Vister(Quinbolone)(oral Boldenone)--50------100
Anadrol 50(Oxymetholone)-------------45------320
Anadur(Nandrolone Hexyloxyphenylpropionate)--37-----125
Anatrofin(Stenbolone Acetate)---------107-144-----267-332
Anavar(Oxandrolone)-------------------24------322-630
Andractim(Dihydrotestosteron)--------30-260-----60-220
Andriol(Testosterone Undecanoate)----100------100
Androderm(Testosterone)---------------100------100
Androgel(Testosterone)------------------100------100
Boldabol(Boldenone Acetate)------------50------100
Cheque Drops(Mibolerone)--------------1,800------4,100
Danocrine(Danazol)----------------------37------125
Deca-Durabolin(Nandrolone Decanoate)--37------125
Deposterona(Testosterone Blend)-------100------100
Dianabol(Methandrostenolone)-----------40-60------90-210
Dimethyltrienolone------------------------10,000+-----10,000+
Dinandrol(Nandrolone Blend)------------37------125
Durabolin(NPP)----------------------------37------125
Dynabol(Nandrolone Cypionate)---------37------125
Equipoise(Boldenone Undecylenate)-----50------100
Esiclene(Formebolone)-------------------No Data Available
Genabol(Norbolethone)-------------------17------350
Halotestin(Fluoxymesterone)------------850------1,900
Hydroxytestosterone---------------------25------65
Laurabolin(Nandrolone Laurate)---------37------125
Madol(Desoxymethyltestosterone)------187------1,200
Masteron(Drostanolone Propionate)-----25-40------62-130
Megagrisevit-Mono(Clostebol Acetate)--25------46
MENT(Methylnortestosterone Acetate)-------650------2,300
Mestanolone--------------------------------78-254------107
Methandriol(Mythelandrostenediol)-------30-60------20-60
Methyl-1-Testosterone---------------------100-220------910-1,600
Methyldienolone----------------------------200-300------1,000
Methylhydroxynandrolone(MHN)----------281------1304
Methyltestosterone-------------------------94-130------115-150
Metribolone(Methyltrienolone)-------------6,000-7,000------12,000-30,000
Miotolan(Furazabol)-------------------------73-94------270-330
Myagen(Bolasterone)-----------------------300------575
Nilevar(Norethandrolone)------------------22-55------100-200
Omnadren(Testosterone Blend)-----------100------100
Orabolin(Ethylestrenol)--------------------20-400------200-400
Oral Turinabol------------------------------None------100+
Oranabol(Oxymesterone)------------------50------330
Orgasteron(Normethandrolone)-----------325-580------110-125
Parabolan(Tren Hexahydrobenzycarbonate)-500------500
Primobolan(Methenolone Acetate)----------44-57------88
Primobolan Depot(Methenolone Enanthate)-44-57------88
Prostanozol------------------------------------n/a------n/a
Protabol(Thiomesterone)--------------------61------456
Proviron(Mesterolone)-----------------------30-40------100-150
Sanabolicum(Nandrolone Cyclohexylpropionate)-37------125
Steranabol Ritardo(Oxabolone Cypionate)--20-60------50-90
Superdrol(Methyldrostanolone)-------------400------20
Sustanon 100 & 250--------------------------100------100
Synovex(Testosterone Propionate & Estradiol)-100------100
Test 400---------------------------------------100------100
Test Enanthate/Cypionate/Propionate/Susp & Blends-100------100
THG(Tetrahydrogestrinone)-------------------No Data Available
Tren Acetate/Enanthate & Blends------------500------500
Winstrol(Stanozolol)---------------------------30------320

Compound Androgenic Anabolic

Andriol(Testosterone Undecanoate)----100-----------100
Androderm(Testosterone)--------------100-------- -100
Androgel(Testosterone)-----------------100------- -100
Equipoise(Boldenone Undecylenate)-----50------100

xrsist · Apr 7, 2008

a girl i knew ran var @ 5mg ED for 4 or so weeks if i remember correctly, she had a very strict diet and she looked amazing afterwards

Tatyana · May 14, 2008

heatherrae · May 22, 2008

Man, that was excellent info from amazon doll.

Thanks for finding that Tat.

GUARDIAN · May 27, 2008

from what i have seen and experienced i think test is more of a 1:1 ratio.

Tatyana said:
Anabolic and Androgenic Ratings of Steroids

Definitions of ANABOLIC on the Web:

Pertaining to anabolism, the metabolic process of building tissue from simpler molecules.
www.amfar.org/cgi-bin/iowa/bridge.html

The building up in the body into more complex substances from simpler ones. Part of the Lipo-Oxidative Control System involving the balance of anabolic / catabolic processes in the body. ...
livingbalance.us/glossary.php

Synthesis, opposite of catabolic. Relating to, characterised by or promoting anabolism.
www.project-aware.org/Health/Osteo/osteo-gloss.shtml

Promoting anabolism. Specifically, an agent or function that stimulates the organization of smaller substances into larger ones. Examples: making a starch out of sugars, a protein out of amino acids, or making triglycerides out of fatty acids are anabolic functions. ...
www.healthsuperstore.com/glossary/glossary-a2.aspx

promoting anabolism
www.steroidtips.com/steroidterms.htm

of or related to the synthetic phase of metabolism
characterized by or promoting constructive metabolism; "some athletes take anabolic steroids to increase muscle size temporarily"
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

Anabolism is the metabolic process that builds larger molecules from smaller ones. One way of categorizing metabolic processes, whether at the cellular, organ or organism level is as 'anabolic' or 'catabolic', which is the opposite. ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anabolic

Definitions of Androgenic on the Web:

This refers to the hormones which stimulate the sebaceous glands to produce sebum.
www.acneway.com/glossary.html

of or related to the male hormone androgen
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

Androgen is the generic term for any natural or synthetic compound, usually a steroid hormone, that stimulates or controls the development and maintenance of masculine characteristics in vertebrates by binding to androgen receptors. ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Androgenic

The higher the number the more androgenic or anabolic the compound is.

As a woman, if you have concerns about virilisation, or developing more male characteristics, then highly androgenic compounds should be avoided.

Compound:------------------------------Androgenic------Anabolic
1-Testosterone--------------------------100------200
Anabolicum Vister(Quinbolone)(oral Boldenone)--50------100
Anadrol 50(Oxymetholone)-------------45------320
Anadur(Nandrolone Hexyloxyphenylpropionate)--37-----125
Anatrofin(Stenbolone Acetate)---------107-144-----267-332
Anavar(Oxandrolone)-------------------24------322-630
Andractim(Dihydrotestosteron)--------30-260-----60-220
Andriol(Testosterone Undecanoate)----100------100
Androderm(Testosterone)---------------100------100
Androgel(Testosterone)------------------100------100
Boldabol(Boldenone Acetate)------------50------100
Cheque Drops(Mibolerone)--------------1,800------4,100
Danocrine(Danazol)----------------------37------125
Deca-Durabolin(Nandrolone Decanoate)--37------125
Deposterona(Testosterone Blend)-------100------100
Dianabol(Methandrostenolone)-----------40-60------90-210
Dimethyltrienolone------------------------10,000+-----10,000+
Dinandrol(Nandrolone Blend)------------37------125
Durabolin(NPP)----------------------------37------125
Dynabol(Nandrolone Cypionate)---------37------125
Equipoise(Boldenone Undecylenate)-----50------100
Esiclene(Formebolone)-------------------No Data Available
Genabol(Norbolethone)-------------------17------350
Halotestin(Fluoxymesterone)------------850------1,900
Hydroxytestosterone---------------------25------65
Laurabolin(Nandrolone Laurate)---------37------125
Madol(Desoxymethyltestosterone)------187------1,200
Masteron(Drostanolone Propionate)-----25-40------62-130
Megagrisevit-Mono(Clostebol Acetate)--25------46
MENT(Methylnortestosterone Acetate)-------650------2,300
Mestanolone--------------------------------78-254------107
Methandriol(Mythelandrostenediol)-------30-60------20-60
Methyl-1-Testosterone---------------------100-220------910-1,600
Methyldienolone----------------------------200-300------1,000
Methylhydroxynandrolone(MHN)----------281------1304
Methyltestosterone-------------------------94-130------115-150
Metribolone(Methyltrienolone)-------------6,000-7,000------12,000-30,000
Miotolan(Furazabol)-------------------------73-94------270-330
Myagen(Bolasterone)-----------------------300------575
Nilevar(Norethandrolone)------------------22-55------100-200
Omnadren(Testosterone Blend)-----------100------100
Orabolin(Ethylestrenol)--------------------20-400------200-400
Oral Turinabol------------------------------None------100+
Oranabol(Oxymesterone)------------------50------330
Orgasteron(Normethandrolone)-----------325-580------110-125
Parabolan(Tren Hexahydrobenzycarbonate)-500------500
Primobolan(Methenolone Acetate)----------44-57------88
Primobolan Depot(Methenolone Enanthate)-44-57------88
Prostanozol------------------------------------n/a------n/a
Protabol(Thiomesterone)--------------------61------456
Proviron(Mesterolone)-----------------------30-40------100-150
Sanabolicum(Nandrolone Cyclohexylpropionate)-37------125
Steranabol Ritardo(Oxabolone Cypionate)--20-60------50-90
Superdrol(Methyldrostanolone)-------------400------20
Sustanon 100 & 250--------------------------100------100
Synovex(Testosterone Propionate & Estradiol)-100------100
Test 400---------------------------------------100------100
Test Enanthate/Cypionate/Propionate/Susp & Blends-100------100
THG(Tetrahydrogestrinone)-------------------No Data Available
Tren Acetate/Enanthate & Blends------------500------500
Winstrol(Stanozolol)---------------------------30------320

Compound Androgenic Anabolic

Andriol(Testosterone Undecanoate)----100-----------100
Androderm(Testosterone)--------------100-------- -100
Androgel(Testosterone)-----------------100------- -100
Equipoise(Boldenone Undecylenate)-----50------100

superqt4u2nv · Jun 17, 2008

gymdiva20 said:
Hi tatyana,
Did your friend say anything about NPP (nandrolone phenylpropionate) specifically in comparison to winny and primo? Has anybody used this before and with what results?
(I read the aas sticky that talked about it being a good alternative)

I have used NPP with great gains well I was cutting 20mg EOD since it has a short half life it is something that I would recommend for females wishing to try injectables. I have never done injectable winny. I have done primo and I do not recommend it at all the half life is to long if you get a side from it you have to ride it out for 2 weeks no fun at all.

Tatyana · Jun 23, 2008

Links to top threads with information about steroids and women

A Guide to Physique Enhancement
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/w...aining/guide-physique-enhancement-302279.html

Women and injectables

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/w...ables-guide-ladies-realgains-wife-122854.html

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/w...ng/good-safe-way-take-injectables-154583.html

Tatyana · Jun 23, 2008

Occassionally we get guys or ladies on here who want to use AAS (for the ladies) specifically for sex drive and having nothing to do with the "sports-use" of AAS. It scares the shit out of me when women take something because a guy says "it works for me" or "try this" and they have no friggen clue what it is or what it can do (or not do) that is what they are looking for (or not looking for). Particularly in the case of using AAS as a sex enhancer, there's no information about whether or not the girl even understands what a steroid is and most likely won't have any understanding of the discipline that goes into using, regarding keeping your diet healthy, not drinking or doing other things that will further stress the organs that have to process this foreign stuff or deal w/ the hormone-driven results.

READ ON...

(http://www.hisandherhealth.com/arti...sexuality.shtml)

Male Hormones (Androgens) and Female Sexuality --A Look at Pharmacology

Female sexuality is much more complicated than male sexuality with multiple factors concerning desire, including such disparate items as level of education, past sexual experiences, sexual expectations, cultural and religious beliefs, availability of a partner and of course, the individual’s hormonal status.
Many hormones may influence female sexuality, including estrogens (female hormones), oxytocin, progesterone, androgens and all their metabolites. Estrogen deficiency is most commonly seen in the peri-menopausal and postmenopausal women and include vasomotor symptoms including hot flashes, night sweets, urogenital atrophy and often a diminution in sexual desire.

In addition, there is frequently a decrease in a feeling of well being, atrophy of the vagina, anxiety, emotional instability, depression, decline in short term memory and concentration, myalgia, arthralgia, an aversion to be touched and in general these also can lead to a decrease in sexual desire. Estrogen replacement will alleviate most of these vasomotor symptoms, including vaginal atrophy, but desire and restoration of female libido may not always occur in the estrogen treated peri-menopausal and postmenopausal women.

This has lead to the theory that in postmenopausal women where desire is not elevated by estrogen replacement there may be an androgen deficiency. On the other hand, if we are to treat women with androgens in a safe and effective manner, doctors must weigh the risks.

The ability of laboratory techniques to define hypoandrogenism in women is hampered by the inability of the laboratory test themselves to measure testosterone levels of the lower end of the normal female reproductive range.

On the other hand, there is an entity in postmenopausal women treated adequately with estrogen therapy that not only includes low sexual libidos but decrease sexual motivation, fatigue, lack of well being and probability low levels of bioavailable free testosterone.

Before a doctor treats women with androgen replacement therapy adequate estrogen therapy must be instituted and consideration for mental health counseling or referral to a sex therapist should be made. This androgen deficiency syndrome, however, is accepted for women who have had bilateral ovariectomy or in younger women who have suffered primary or secondary ovarian failure associated with low libido and low blood androgen levels.

What causes low levels of male hormones in women. The ovaries produce androstenedione, testosterone and dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA). The adrenals produce androstenedione and dehydroepiandrosterone sulfate (DHEA-S). The DHEA-S can be further metabolized to testosterone or estrogens. In addition the testosterone through the enzyme of 5-alpha reductants converts the serum testosterone to dihydrotestosterone (DHT) or estradiol (E2) these are the active hormones that work within the cells.

Age in general leads to a drop in androgen levels in women and is due to the age-related drop in adrenal production of androgen and the loss of the mid-cycle surge in ovarian testosterone. Removal of the ovaries results in a reduction of 50 percent in testosterone and androstenedione. Chemical oophorectomy including chemotherapy, use of GNRH hormone inhibitors, radiation therapy, glucocorticoids and the administration of exogenous estrogens are other causes for diminution in androgens. Oral postmenopausal estrogen therapy and oral contraceptives will suppress free testosterone by increasing serum hormone binding globulins (SHBG) and suppressing pituitary luteinizing hormone (LH).

Steroids by mouth suppress pituitary secretions of adrenal corticotropic hormone and therefore adrenal androgen production as well. This probably explains the bone loss frequency in patients who are taking long-term steroids. Lastly, hypothalamic amenorrhea and hypoproaccelerinemia are usually associated with low testosterone and many women with premature ovarian failure have low testosterone levels. Therefore, the use of oral contraceptives in older women or women with amenorrhea or premature ovarian failure may actually worsen their androgen deficiency.

How testosterone therapy affects female sexuality is not well understood although it is a clinically known factor. The male hormones may work directly on androgen receptors or may be a precursor for additional estrogen production in tissue such as fat, bone, brain, blood vessels or possibly by lowering serum hormone binding globulins (SHBG) and therefore causing an increase in the levels of bioactive steroids such as androgen. Probably the mechanism is all of the above.

There is no doubt that the administration of testosterone to older women with sexual desire problems improves the intensity of sexual desire, arousal, frequency of sexual fantasies, satisfaction, pleasure and relevancy and importance of sex to daily life. And therefore, postmenopausal women who are probably treated with estrogen therapy should be offered androgen replacement to improve this symptom complex.

A more difficult question deals with the pre-menopausal women who complains of decreased sexual drive and libido and who have low bioavailable testosterone. Studies have not been done; each case should be individualized especially in those individuals in which other factors do not appear to play a role in desire and where the psychosocial and sexual history indicates hormonal problem as being the basic ideology of their libido decrease.

The administration of testosterone has been formulated and fairly much determined for men but androgen replacement therapy in women has no true guidelines and in the United States there are no drug indications for the use of androgens in women. Oral methylated testosterone is available in the United States and should be administered in combination with esterified estrogens (E.E.) 1.25 milligrams of methyltestosterone with 0.625 milligrams of E.E. or 2.5 milligrams of methyltestosterone with 1.25 milligrams of E.E. Patients obviously have to be warned about androgen side affects including increase in high density lipoproteins, cholesterol and low density lipoproteins, adverse liver affects including chemical hepatitis and possibly a higher incidence of liver cancer. More commonly, however, testosterone will lead to masculinizing tendencies which should be monitored by the patient and her physician should be informed if such occurs.

Oral testosterone undecenoate has not been studied in women and doses as low as 20 milligrams appear to cause undesirable side effects and therefore is not recommended at this time.

Subcutaneous implants of testosterone is not available in the United States at this time, but has been in Australia and the United Kingdom for many years and has found to be quite effective for up to six months. Doses of 50 to 100 milligrams appeared to affectively raise the levels of testosterone for up to six months to adequate levels to treat sexual desire problems. In the United States compounding pharmacists are able to manufacture a subcutaneous testosterone pellet which could easily be implanted by your physician.

Injectable depo-testosterone in the form of testosterone esters appears to be the safest and most commonly tried form of androgen replacement in women in the United States. The most common administration is 50 to 100 milligrams administered every four to six weeks intramuscular. However, many physicians use 20 milligrams every three weeks. Masculinization with increased acne and occasional clitoral myoglia may occur with this therapy.

Recently transdermotestosterone patches have been manufactured and approved for use by men and newer technology is developing androgen replacement patches for women. Patches that increase testosterone levels greater than 25 nanograms per DL appear to produce significant masculinization and side affects that they should not be used.

Transdermotesosterone as a cream or a jell or testosterone using a transvaginal testosterone impregnated cream is available in the United States by specific prescriptions or through compounding pharmacists.

Contraindications to testosterone treatment include: acne, hirsutism, alopecia, and circumstances in which enhancing libido would be undesirable. Absolute contraindications include pregnancy and lactation as well as known or suspected androgen dependent neoplasia. Side effects from excessive testosterone include virilization, fluid retention and an adverse lipoprotein profile which more likely occur with the oral administration of the drug. Afenteral administration raising levels of testosterone to within physiologic ranges does not appear to have any undesirable metabolic effects. It is not known whether additional androgen will affect breast cancer since more than 50 percent of breast cancers have androgen receptors and these are associated with a longer survival in women.

In conclusion, androgen deficiency in women causing various symptoms including poor sexual desire is an entity that exists both in the menopausal and probably pre-menopausal female. In the peri or postmenopausal female the patient should be adequately treated with estrogen therapy before using androgen replacement. And the pre-menopausal woman who appears to have low bioactive levels of testosterone, androgen replacement should be used with closer monitoring.

------------------------------------------------------------------

My doc specializes in female hormonal issues. From any research I have seen, he is way ahead in the field of Women and HRT. My sister has been going to him for a while and has made some really positive changes in her overall health. She was seeing her OB for what she was lead to believe was pre-menopausal symptoms. Her doc was just handing out drugs without proper bloodwork. When the hormones didn't work, he tried to give her anti-depressants! After hearing that, I urged her to see my doc. He ran extensive blood work, and found that the only thing she was lacking was low test, and low dhea. He started her on sub-lingual testosterone at 2mg/ed. He also started her on very low dose DHEA. She did not see immediate results, but slowly and gradual improvements in libido and body composition. She is now much happier, aware, and is thinner than she has been in ten or so years.

I have researched this topic quite a bit over the past year or so and find that most doctors are in the stone age regarding this topic. I'll see if I can add some links to some articles. The main gist is no different than men and Test Replacement. If you bring blood levels above the phisological "normal" ranges you will see problems. With Women, thats easy to do because there are not many delivery methods of Test that can safely do this. There are creams specifically formulated for women, and sub-lingual drops. Thats it as far as I know, (safely).

The article from doctor Murdock is based on some outdated information. The fact that he calls Testosterone the male hormone is a good example of this. He also mentions Methylated Testosterone which is old school, and Sub-Q Testosterone pellets which are barbaric and outdated. The real problem lies in the fact that there are so many anti-aging clinics that will prescribe test to women without the proper testing and monitoring. Women that are not testosteone deficient should not supplement, and these clinic will sell Test to women that should never take it.

http://mama.indstate.edu/users/anon/fsd/test.html

http://www.gynob.com/testost.htm

http://www.newshe.com/factsheets/testosterone_faq.shtml
I too can't believe some of the questions / advice I see on the boards when guys give advise based on "male" experience with Test.

nancysmithwp · Aug 13, 2008

Speaking to the previous post, I know a little something about bhrt and libido. After menopause hit, not only was I never in the mood but it was actually painful, and I had always had a healthy libido before. After finding a doctor who believes in restoring your hormones to the levels they were when you are young, the libido came back in full force... and then some

Doc says it's mostly the testosterone.

pimparealwoman · Aug 22, 2008

Hi everybody..

This is my very first post on this board...I'm a female bodybuilder and have been lifting weights..as in living a bodybuilding lifestyle, for 17 years..I have quit some experience with AAS, so if I could help anyone out, by all means feel free to ask. Having said that..I can only tell about my own experiences and how my body responds and has responded to certain compounds. Every body is a world on it's own, so it can only be used as a guide line..The compounds i've used over the years are NPP (by far my favourite!), Winstrol, Anavar, Test Prop (not recommendable!), Primobolan, Masteron, Equipoise, HGH, Cardispan, and I'm sure I forget a couple...If I can be of any help to anyone, please feel free to drop me a line...

wish you all a good weekend...

superqt4u2nv · Aug 23, 2008

pimparealwoman said:
Hi everybody..

This is my very first post on this board...I'm a female bodybuilder and have been lifting weights..as in living a bodybuilding lifestyle, for 17 years..I have quit some experience with AAS, so if I could help anyone out, by all means feel free to ask. Having said that..I can only tell about my own experiences and how my body responds and has responded to certain compounds. Every body is a world on it's own, so it can only be used as a guide line..The compounds i've used over the years are NPP (by far my favourite!), Winstrol, Anavar, Test Prop (not recommendable!), Primobolan, Masteron, Equipoise, HGH, Cardispan, and I'm sure I forget a couple...If I can be of any help to anyone, please feel free to drop me a line... wish you all a good weekend...

Nice to see you posting

What was your experience with EQ I have fast acting one I been meaning to use but I am gun shy as I heard it is similar to primo which made me sheed(hair falling out) I wouldn't want to go through that again ever.

pimparealwoman · Aug 25, 2008

Hi superqt4u2nv,

Thank you! I hope I can be of any help..

..I quiet like EQ, because it goes well with me. I've heard they are working on an EQ with an acetate ester, but I've never used it..simply because it's virtually impossible to obtain new and improved substances on this side of the pond..my experiences are solely with the undecylenate ester. Although I'm normally not a fan of long acting esters for women, and would never recommend it...this one in particular works well for me after the season when I can't be asked to be a pincushion no more..hehe.

But in general I think it's key to find what is working for you..espcially being a woman. You can ask me what I think of EQ in relation to Primo..but I can only tell you how it works for me, which is pretty useless information for you..as we are both different and unique human beings. To take my information, or anybody's for that matter and adapt it to you can be very dangerous...For example,..I'm a 5'11, 175lbs mesomorph..and carry quiet some mature muscle on me..

I think in order to use AAS in a 'safe' manner, first you have to indentify the questions...and then find the answers. Once you've done that it's time to put different substances to the test to find out what works for you...Approach it like an ongoing science project.. with intelligence and common sense..

The questions should be something like:

What is my objective in all this?..(if the answer is get huuge fast, or 'tone' up..steroids is not the answer..there are other effective methods to aid in that)
What bodytype do I have?...
What does my lifting, cardio and work schedule look like?..
What does my diet look like..any room for improvement?
How does my body respond to certain foods?
How prone is my body to illness?..(do I easily come down with a cold or the flu)
How quikly does my body recover from illnes or injury?
What sides am I ok with?..

There is not one women that uses AAS without any sides..For me personally..I don't like sides..I cycle because it aids in my recovery, my objective is to be able to keep up with my gym schedule, and make sure I can lift heavy weights almost all year round without getting injured or severly over trained. Reason being, I adore working out.

I've been lifting for 17 years and still look forward to every work out.

I'm not in this game to look good naked..to be huge..to compete..to impress others. I'm doing this out of pure love for the sports.. the activity..

So I'm very particular in what I condone and what not when it comes to sides. I'm alive to feel good every day of the week..if AAS can assist in making me feel even better..Halleluja!..If not, what's the point?!...

So, for me personally.. Winstrol hurts my joints, and is a harsch subtance on my system full stop..dealbreaker!..Primo gives me a headache..dealbreaker..EQ..doesn't add to the daily joy..doesn't substract..so it serves the purpose of maintenance, because I only have to put a little once a week..

NPP rocks!..low androgenic..high anabolic..great to work towards an objective like a show or something..Test Prop makes you feel like a million bucks, but I found it too risky..and won't repeat it..but I'm glad I at least know what it does with me..

Like I said..all this works for me. In order to find out what works for you, you have to try different substances. Magic words here..Prudence (less is more!!)..Common Sense...and Patience (to inject some stuff, wait a week, don't see result and light your *ss on fire on it is silly..just because you don't see result..or 'don't notice anything' doesn't mean it's not working!!..I've never surpassed any substance over 50mcg a week...EQ for example I would run at 35 to 40 mcg a week, and I'm a big girl!..

So my suggestion for any girl that would like to start with AAS, first get yourself a 'blueprint' of who you are, what your objectives are and how your body functions..then educate yourself..read, read, read about various substances until you find the substance that matches your objective best..run it at a very LOW dose for a month and sit on the fence, see what it does..if there are immediate dealbreakers like headaches..or any sides you already determined you weren't tollerating, STOP!!..stop taking that substance and don't keep 'trying'...trying for what??..if you get another headache??..You probably will..

After you finished the month..take a month off and let your body recuparate. Then either if you liked the substance run it for 3 months...or if there is another one that caught your eye do another 'test' month. At all times..listen to your body, it will tell you the story..don't treat the effects (painkillers etc..)..eliminate the cause if it's not working for you...and continue to search for one that does..

Sorry..I have been on my soapbox a little bit..I hope it has some useful stuff in there for you...it's just my 2 pennies worth..

Best,

B!

needtogetaas · Aug 26, 2008

I ma kinda liking this thread.

Thandie · Aug 31, 2008

pimparealwoman said:
Hi superqt4u2nv,

Thank you! I hope I can be of any help....I quiet like EQ, because it goes well with me. I've heard they are working on an EQ with an acetate ester, but I've never used it..simply because it's virtually impossible to obtain new and improved substances on this side of the pond..my experiences are solely with the undecylenate ester. Although I'm normally not a fan of long acting esters for women, and would never recommend it...this one in particular works well for me after the season when I can't be asked to be a pincushion no more..hehe.

But in general I think it's key to find what is working for you..espcially being a woman. You can ask me what I think of EQ in relation to Primo..but I can only tell you how it works for me, which is pretty useless information for you..as we are both different and unique human beings. To take my information, or anybody's for that matter and adapt it to you can be very dangerous...For example,..I'm a 5'11, 175lbs mesomorph..and carry quiet some mature muscle on me..

I think in order to use AAS in a 'safe' manner, first you have to indentify the questions...and then find the answers. Once you've done that it's time to put different substances to the test to find out what works for you...Approach it like an ongoing science project.. with intelligence and common sense..

The questions should be something like:

What is my objective in all this?..(if the answer is get huuge fast, or 'tone' up..steroids is not the answer..there are other effective methods to aid in that)
What bodytype do I have?...
What does my lifting, cardio and work schedule look like?..
What does my diet look like..any room for improvement?
How does my body respond to certain foods?
How prone is my body to illness?..(do I easily come down with a cold or the flu)
How quikly does my body recover from illnes or injury?
What sides am I ok with?..

There is not one women that uses AAS without any sides..For me personally..I don't like sides..I cycle because it aids in my recovery, my objective is to be able to keep up with my gym schedule, and make sure I can lift heavy weights almost all year round without getting injured or severly over trained. Reason being, I adore working out. I've been lifting for 17 years and still look forward to every work out.

I'm not in this game to look good naked..to be huge..to compete..to impress others. I'm doing this out of pure love for the sports.. the activity.. So I'm very particular in what I condone and what not when it comes to sides. I'm alive to feel good every day of the week..if AAS can assist in making me feel even better..Halleluja!..If not, what's the point?!...

So, for me personally.. Winstrol hurts my joints, and is a harsch subtance on my system full stop..dealbreaker!..Primo gives me a headache..dealbreaker..EQ..doesn't add to the daily joy..doesn't substract..so it serves the purpose of maintenance, because I only have to put a little once a week..

NPP rocks!..low androgenic..high anabolic..great to work towards an objective like a show or something..Test Prop makes you feel like a million bucks, but I found it too risky..and won't repeat it..but I'm glad I at least know what it does with me..

Like I said..all this works for me. In order to find out what works for you, you have to try different substances. Magic words here..Prudence (less is more!!)..Common Sense...and Patience (to inject some stuff, wait a week, don't see result and light your *ss on fire on it is silly..just because you don't see result..or 'don't notice anything' doesn't mean it's not working!!..I've never surpassed any substance over 50mcg a week...EQ for example I would run at 35 to 40 mcg a week, and I'm a big girl!..

So my suggestion for any girl that would like to start with AAS, first get yourself a 'blueprint' of who you are, what your objectives are and how your body functions..then educate yourself..read, read, read about various substances until you find the substance that matches your objective best..run it at a very LOW dose for a month and sit on the fence, see what it does..if there are immediate dealbreakers like headaches..or any sides you already determined you weren't tollerating, STOP!!..stop taking that substance and don't keep 'trying'...trying for what??..if you get another headache??..You probably will..

After you finished the month..take a month off and let your body recuparate. Then either if you liked the substance run it for 3 months...or if there is another one that caught your eye do another 'test' month. At all times..listen to your body, it will tell you the story..don't treat the effects (painkillers etc..)..eliminate the cause if it's not working for you...and continue to search for one that does..

Sorry..I have been on my soapbox a little bit..I hope it has some useful stuff in there for you...it's just my 2 pennies worth..

Best,

B!

Wow, great information!!

cooltrouble · Oct 15, 2008

Tatyana

great read thanks for all the tips. Quick question. Whats your position on clen for fat burning use with women. my old lady has been tryin to loose stubborn body fat for the last year after our last kid. She's been freaking pestering me to let her get a go at it. She was an avid runner when we meet and weight lifted in high school, however, she not into competitive scene.

thanks in advance for you response.

ct

Tatyana · Oct 15, 2008

cooltrouble said:
Tatyana

great read thanks for all the tips. Quick question. Whats your position on clen for fat burning use with women. my old lady has been tryin to loose stubborn body fat for the last year after our last kid. She's been freaking pestering me to let her get a go at it. She was an avid runner when we meet and weight lifted in high school, however, she not into competitive scene.

thanks in advance for you response.

ct

I am not fond of clen for several reasons

1. your body adapts to it quite quickly

2. it slows the thyroid gland

3. to avoid thyroid suppression, it is recommended to take T3

4. T3 indiscriminantly burns muscle or fat, so really, an anabolic to preserve muscle is often recommended/required, and for a woman who wants to burn fat, this all gets to be a bit much.

5. Rebound (fat gain) coming off of both clen and T3

6. Clen is quite toxic to heart cells

There are quite a few very effective non-pharma fat burners, I haven't tried them yet, but people swear by Omega's, and there is always ECA.

Where is the bodyfat? There is a school of thought that some deposits are related to various hormones.

cooltrouble · Oct 15, 2008

deat tat

thanks for quick response

so then ok ok i like clen you hate me for it, ha ha ha ha. So then are you suggesting probably cytomel for a t3??? Also as far as the muscle wasting while on the t3 as it doesn't discrimate between fat and muscle burning, does winstrol stromba make sense????. Again needles isn't her game so iam sticking to my litlle bit of knowledge with orals.

again thanks

ct

Tatyana · Oct 16, 2008

cooltrouble said:
deat tat

thanks for quick response

so then ok ok i like clen you hate me for it, ha ha ha ha. So then are you suggesting probably cytomel for a t3??? Also as far as the muscle wasting while on the t3 as it doesn't discrimate between fat and muscle burning, does winstrol stromba make sense????. Again needles isn't her game so iam sticking to my litlle bit of knowledge with orals.

again thanks

ct

Sorry, I don't know enough about the differences between cytomel and T3.

As far as winnie goes, I suggest you read this thread:
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/womens-fitness-female-bodybuilding-training/cycle-611836.html

I do always wonder if the vast amounts of pharmas is really necessary for some fat loss.

Has she counted calories? Manipulated macronutrient ratios? Tried carb curfews? Changed her training routine?

cooltrouble · Oct 16, 2008

deat tat

thanks for your concern. I never did think about manipulating carb curfew route or macronutrient area.
Gosh, you are more helpful than some of the freaking men on this board. The simpliest question some fellas think you should know and they treat you like freaking shit. Somepleopel never remmerb when they first started out how they themselves had so many questions.

again thanks

ct

Tatyana · Apr 12, 2009

Another great article:

Female Bodybuilders and Anabolic Steroids!

Written by Leigh Penman
Saturday, 28 March 2009 01:57

The use of anabolic steroids by female bodybuilders is an issue which sparks controversy in media circles and a degree of secrecy in the world of bodybuilding. Ask any male competitor what drugs he uses on and off season and you will usually get a fairly honest response (some are even prone to exaggeration!).

On the other hand, steroid use in the female bodybuilding world is still shrouded, to some extent, in a veil of secrecy. Few women will open up (except possibly to their closest friends) and reveal exactly which anabolic substances they're using.

The tendency amongst women is to underplay their use of steroids for reasons best known to them. Perhaps there's still a stigma attached to the use of what are essentially male hormones. I doubt if women would be so guarded if you were to ask what kind of estrogen replacement therapy they were using!

Now don't get me wrong, I am not attacking female bodybuilders here (after all, I consider myself to be one!), I'm merely questioning why, when it comes to anabolic steroid use, there's such a veil of secrecy?

After all, how can women make safe choices when it comes to steroid selection and use if there's no real information out there to assist them? With this in mind, I have decided to produce a series of articles discussing the role of anabolic steroids by female bodybuilders. To kick things off, let's begin this series with a basic introduction, which I will call. . .

WOMEN AND STEROIDS...THE BASICS

Due to their hormonal make up, female athletes need to take a different approach to the use of steroids than their male counterparts. The specific compounds considered to be the safest for use by women are Anavar, Primobolan, Nolvadex, Winstrol, Maxibolin and Durabolin.

It's also very important to note that even on low doses of these particular steroids, some women will develop virilizing effects. This is due to the fact that any amount of steroid introduced into the female endocrine system will trigger a reaction, since it's essentially a derivative of a male hormone. With this in mind, it's always recommended that low dosages of weak androgenic steroids are used for short periods of time.

SIDE EFFECTS

Most common side effects experienced by women using steroids are:

Acne and oily skin
Aggression
Male pattern baldness
Lowering of voice tone
Disruption of menstrual cycle
Clitoral enlargement
Increased hair growth on face, legs and arms

More positive side effects of steroid use in women would be:

Increased feeling of well being
Increased energy
Decreased recovery time from workouts
Heightened sex drive
Muscle and strength gain
Decreases in estrogenic fat (e.g. upper legs, abdomen, upper arms, butt)

COMMONLY USED STEROIDS

The most commonly used steroids by women are Anavar, Primobolan, Winstrol and Nandrolone Phenylpropionate. So let's take a closer look at these substances:

Anavar (oxandralone) - This is one of the mildest anabolic out there. Its androgenic activity is also extremely low. Most women who fear side effects usually opt for low dose (5-10mg/day) short duration (6-8 weeks) cycles. Anavar usually produces good gains in strength and reasonable gains in quality muscle mass with little in the way of side effects.

Primobolan Depot (methenolone enanthate) - Primobolan has long been a favorite with female bodybuilders since it does not convert to estrogen and produces very little in the way of water retention. Most women use 25-50mg/week for about 8-10 weeks. Side effects with Primobolan can include oily skin, acne and a possible increase in facial/body hair. Primobolan can be slow to take effect but its long duration of action can produce some pretty dramatic results in women. These steady lean muscle gains are unique in that they don't seem to be dependent on a ‘hyper-caloric' diet.

Winstrol (stanozolol)- This substance can be taken orally or via injection (some even drink the injectable form). Winstrol is a good mass builder and produces significant gains in strength.

However, many women do not like it due to its tendency to produce androgenic side effects such as male pattern baldness, voice deepening, acne and clitoral enlargement. One way to avoid these sides is to keep the dose low (e.g. 5-10mg/day). Since Winstrol can be stressful on the liver, it's also wise to include a liver protecting supplement such as Milk Thistle or Liv- 52. If the injectable form is being used, 12.5mg every 2nd to 3rd day is ideal.

Durabolin (nandrolone phenylpropionate) - Also known as "fast-acting Deca", this is another drug often used by female bodybuilders. This drug produces slow and steady gains in strength and lean muscle tissue. Even though it‘s only slightly androgenic, it can produce side effects such as excess facial and body hair.

However, unlike its longer-acting cousin, Deca Durabolin, NPP causes significantly less in the way of water retention and severe masculinizing side effects such as thickening of the jawline and deepening of the voice. The usual dosage for this compound is 50mg/week.

Maxibolin (Ethlestrenol)
This is a low androgenic oral steroid, which is derived from the 19-nortestosterone parent molecule. This drug is popular with women who favor its high anabolic, low androgenic, compounds. Although hard to find nowadays, many women athletes feel this drug is quite effective for quality muscle gains with minimal water retention. Effective dosages range from 5-15mg per day for women.

OTHER DRUGS FAVORED BY WOMEN

While the above-mentioned drugs could be considered the basic introductory compounds, they are by no means the only drugs used by women...and this is where the grey area lies!

Most women will freely mention the above drugs as part of their cycle. When it comes to contest preparation they'll also talk about Clenbuterol and T3 use (which will be discussed in greater depth in future articles); however, the truth of the matter is that many competitors also use substances like Equipoise, Turinabol, Dianabol and Testosterone. In fact, the use of testosterone by female bodybuilders is perhaps the most closely guarded secret amongst competitors. Those who are willing to talk about its use usually cite the propionate ester as their testosterone of choice with 25-50mg being injected every 5-7 days by the cautious and doses far exceeding this by the highly adventurous (crazy) women.

So there you have it, a brief overview of steroid use by female bodybuilders

needtogetaas · Apr 12, 2009

Over the last year or so, I’ve had the privilege of knowing several people who are intimately connected with female figure, fitness, and bodybuilding. I have also consulted with one or two national level fitness competitors, as well as a couple of national level female bodybuilders, as well as some figure competitors. I wanted this article to be very objective, but the more I became involved in conversations with these women, and began to develop friendships with them, that became impossible. Even disregarding my blatant unprofessionalism, it was virtually impossible to avoid admiring them and developing friendships.

So roughly a year ago, I began researching women and steroid use. I had figured that my name was recognizable enough to give me a modicum of credibility, and not come off like an internet-stalker- or at least less of one. I contacted all of the women I was on good terms with (not surprisingly, a relatively small number), and had them introduce me to some likely candidates to anonymously talk about their drug use.

Several figure, fitness, and bodybuilder women were all gracious enough to speak with me, very frankly and candidly (on the condition of anonymity). I have also retained a few connections with first division athletes in various colleges around the country, so I have decent insight into the world of female athletics as well. So I ended up doing dozens of interviews, and collecting reams of data on female anabolic use from various female competitors (and even a couple of recreational users).

Regarding female physique competitors, the first thing which struck me is that, in the off season, they are all remarkably similar in stats. While a 5’3" (ish) female bodybuilder may bulk up to 155-165 lbs in the off season, I have seen more than one figure girl get up to about ten lbs shy of that, and fitness girls are typically around the same. One very popular figure model gets about 50lbs overweight between photo shoots. To look at her in the times between shoots, she basically looks like a fat girl with a pretty face. To look at her portfolio and magazine shoots, she looks like the type of girl high-school boys tape pictures of in their lockers. Or whatever boys that age do with pictures of hot girls wearing next to nothing…

Anyway, a typical off season weight for a female bodybuilder is only about 10 lbs higher than a figure or fitness competitor, if they are all still in reasonable shape (not super-fat). This immediately made me think that their drug intakes, diet, and training routines would be shockingly similar, and in some regards I was correct, and in others I was not.

Let’s go over what I’m talking about here, so we’re all on the same page. Fitness girls do the same physique comparison rounds as the figure girls, but also have a routine which contains compulsory moves. Figure girls are compared doing quarter turns in both a one and two piece "swimsuit". It’s called a "swimsuit" but you can’t swim in it (naturally). In fact, it doesn’t resemble a swimsuit in any way except for the shape. The more sequins, jewels, and stones you have on the suit, the higher the price. And they’re not cheap…prices range from $500-1500. Yeah, a thousand dollar swim suit that you can’t swim in, that’s covered in jeweled studs. At those prices, I shudder to think what Liberace’s swimming wardrobe must have cost him…

I know we all want to get into the drug information here, but first, I need to touch on training and diet. With regards to weight training: figure, bodybuilding, and fitness competitors train in a very similar fashion. There’s really no "figure" workout, or "bodybuilding" workout which isn’t very similar. The fitness girls do a gymnastics routine (which obviously requires separate training), and the bodybuilders do a posing routine- while figure is limited to quarter turns. If you think there’s a difference in their training, besides the routine, you’re mistaken. If you think there’s a difference in the diet, you’re mistaken. The difference between figure and bodybuilding is that there’s no posing round, and figure girls don’t come in as dry. There’s about a 10 lb difference in them, which is probably about 5 lbs of water and 5 lbs of muscle, and that’s all. Of course, female figure and fitness is separated into height classes, while female bodybuilding is separated into weight classes.

Now that we’re vaguely on the same page, we can go over some basics regarding female anabolic use. It’s pretty common to hear people say things like "even fitness competitors use a low dose of ‘Var or Winny here and there…maybe some Clenbuterol". This is absolute bullshit. Competition level doses I’ve seen are actually much higher than people think… basically around 10 mgs of Anavar (never less), stacked with an equal amount of Winstrol, and a bunch of Clenbuterol. I can’t remember the last time I’ve read a female bodybuilder or fitness girl’s drug program and not seen Growth Hormone in it- usually about 2IU’s a day (interestingly, IGF-1 hasn’t really busted onto the female anabolic scene yet, nor has MGF or the other peptides). Thyroid hormone is used in nearly every woman’s precontest phase, and doses can get pretty outrageous here. Proviron is pretty big when they can get it, and most of them take the same dose I do (25-50mgs/day). Some take more. Primobolan, both tabs and injectable, are popular with women, when there’s enough cash around to afford it. Most of the upper level competitors usually don’t have that kind of cash when they first break onto the national scene, though. Why? Because breast implants are expensive- and the last show I went to, there were only four that weren’t fake. And I don’t mean four women, I mean four breasts.

In terms of their off season drug intake, female bodybuilders differ from their figure and fitness sisters. Typically their doses are only slightly higher, but they are much more experimental with compounds they will use. Testosterone propionate, Trenbolone Acetate, Oral Turinabol, Deca-Durabolin, and occasionally Equipoise are used by female bodybuilders. I need to be totally honest, and say that if the woman didn’t start off as exceptionally pretty, these drugs, in the dosages commonly used by top level female bodybuilders, will not win them any beauty contests. Still, even at the top levels of competition or in photo shoots, when their make-up and hair is done, there are a lot of beautiful female bodybuilders, who haven’t lost their looks. However, what’s typically seen in the lower levels is a different story. Girls who are trying to break into the professional ranks, who haven’t done it after several tries, typically turn to much higher drug intakes, and sometimes ruin their femininity.

Most of the side effects I’ve seen in women are manageable, and only temporary. Yeah, horror stories exist, but they’re few and far between. Permanent deepening of the vocal chords is very uncommon, and I’ve only seen it with much larger female bodybuilders- who typically don’t go off steroids long enough to have their voices recover before it becomes semi-permanent. I know of one woman who lost the highs in her voice, but it didn’t deepen…she was, however, under the mistaken impression that her voice had started out much higher than it really did. I think a little precaution here goes a long way. In particular, women need to be more receptive to what their bodies are telling them when they’re on a cycle, and they need to come off the drugs, regularly and periodically. When undesirable side effects start showing themselves, doses need to be cut in half, or discontinued immediately. Do I even need to remind everyone that blood work is a must throughout the year, when you’re going to be tampering with hormones?

The side effect most commonly ignored (believe it or not) is the growth of body hair, and hair loss (from the head). Most women I know brush off the growth of body hair by rationalizing that they have to shave anyway, and the loss of any hair from their head is quickly re-grown after the cycle is over. Body hair growth doesn’t go away usually, but girls who are blonde (natural ones, anyway) usually only grow a very fine layer of mostly unnoticeable hair, and brunettes who compete often have to do regular full body shaves anyway. Ever see any hair on the arms of a bodybuilder (male or female)? Yeah, that’s how that one goes down. The men and the women usually shave every day or every other day anyway, so it’s going to be growing back a bit heavier and coarser. If you wanna compete, you have to shave…so this side effect is usually ignored. And the thinning hair just doesn’t phase the women too much because they have so much of it.

How about acne? Yeah, it happens. I’m taking 300mgs of injectable steroids every other day right now, along with 50 mgs/day of orals, and I don’t have a single zit or pimple. Genetics obviously play a role here, and that’s what I’ve seen with the women who use anabolics too. Women who had severe break outs during their teenage years often find them to recur if they use anabolics. Conversely, if a woman has had exceptionally clear skin her whole life, the addition of steroids doesn’t usually produce much if any acne. Look at some pics of the top figure or fitness competitors next time you see them. Do they look like they spent their teenage years as awkward, skin blemished girls? Right, and this is probably why we don’t see too much acne from them now either- genetics.

Some slight clitoral enlargement is common, but usually (mostly) goes away for the most part when the woman stops using the drugs. Some slight enlargement is going to be permanent, but the "Denise Masino" level of enlargement is really not common at all. And here’s a hot tip: Denise did it on purpose. To be perfectly frank, most women appreciate the temporary effect of clitoral enlargement and swelling, because it makes it much easier for them to orgasm- and combined with the libido increase experienced through the use of anabolics- well, I’ll leave it to you to figure out the advantages here.

But is it permanent? Lets think about this objectively for a moment, ok? Men use tons of DHT based anabolics, in much higher doses, and we never hear of grossly enlarged and permanent external genetalia enlargement in men, from those compounds. Topical DHT has been used successfully to treat inordinately small penis size in males (technically called Microphalia), but this is really only marginally successful and involves rubbing DHT on the area every day, for months on end. And no, this isn’t something I’ve needed to try- thank you very much.

One of the alarming trends I see with female competitors is that they usually are listening to men, with regards to their drug intake. Contest Prep "Gurus" (read: drug dealers) usually recommend the "mild" drugs which are used in the world of male bodybuilding as cutting agents. This includes Anavar, Primobolan, Proviron, and Winstrol, most commonly. These are obvious choices for men, because none of them aromatize (convert to estrogen). When you take a look at their androgenic rating, they’re all quite low, and have very decent anabolic effects. None of them really provide any huge weight gains, but they do provide very high quality gains, of mostly muscle, and very little water retention. In low doses, any of them are reasonably safe. Sounds great, right? Surely, this is why men recommend these drugs to women- when they use these drugs, men typically experience very hard, quality gains in muscle, with only small increases in muscle, on the level of a few pounds, with no water gain. This is just what women usually want out of their cycles, so the reasoning behind these recommendations is sound- almost.

Did I mention that all of the drugs I just listed are also the most expensive anabolics on the market? Not a bad deal for the "gurus" who recommend them…

In reality, when I look at the commonly recommended steroids for women, the striking thing that occurs to me is that they are all derived not from Testosterone, but rather from it’s much more potent cousin, Dihydrotestosterone (DHT). Most people think that testosterone is the most potent natural androgen, but in fact, it’s not. DHT is the most potent naturally occurring androgen, and it’s responsible for several androgenic effects in both men as well as women. In men, it deepens the voice at puberty, is responsible for male pattern baldness, aids in the growth of body and facial hair, and in the fetus is responsible for the development of external genetalia. Testosterone gets converted to Dihydrotestosterone by the 5alpha-Reductase enzyme, and the presence of 5a-R in the womb is a major determinant in of the sex of the baby. Have I mentioned that DHT is both anti-estrogenic and anti-progesteronic? See where I’m going with this?

The reason men experience very nice gains with the DHT family of steroids is that they not only reduce estrogen, but they also are very potent androgens, despite their misleadingly low androgenic ratings. Androgens in men produce far less of an effect on a Mg for Mg basis, than they do in women, and this is due to the differing endocrinology of the two sexes.

In female endocrinology, we see what’s called a two-cell/two-gonadotropin concept LH is delivered to the theca interstitial cell which leads to the secretion of androstenedione. This is then aromatized into estrone, which is then converted to the more potent estradiol. In addition, some testosterone is produced, and this is also subject to aromatization just as it is in men, as well as being subject to 5a-Reductase and conversion to DHT. The overall amount of androgens produced in the woman is, however, far less than what is produced in men. This is why women only need to use lower doses to produce really nice changes in their physiques.

Their threshold for experiencing undesirable side effects is also very low, so doses need to be increased incrementally, and this isn’t usually done. Let’s discuss why. The popular brands of Anavar used by most women, for example, typically come in 5mg tabs. So when a woman decides to up her dose, she goes from one tab to two. That’s a huge increase, and I’ve never heard of a woman going from five to six mgs, or anything like that. Winstrol comes in amps of 50mgs, and it’s very difficult to measure out 1/th of a ml in a syringe. Consequently, most women use a quarter ml every other day, and then they jump to double that dose when they move up. The pattern here is that doses are doubled every time they’re increased, and this is something unique to women. A man doing 500mgs of testosterone per week will usually jump to 750mgs if they aren’t receiving the effects they want. At lower doses, and lower side effect thresholds, the trend in female anabolic use is (unfortunately) to double the dose. I would recommend moving up in mg amounts, rather than arbitrarily doubling doses.

I also see women using rather high amounts of anti-estrogens, in order to get that competition level look, virtually eliminating all of the estrogen in their body for months on end. Take away all of the estrogen from a high-dose steroid using female and what do you end up with? Yeah, you get someone who doesn’t have to worry much about what the sign on the public restroom says anymore…

I noticed another trend, in speaking with some of the top level female competitors I interviewed. Unfortunately, I saw what would be technically classified as compulsive behavior in some women, who either experience anxiety when they come off the drugs, or feel a degree of anxiety when they aren’t using the kind of doses they perceive their competition to be using. As with any compulsive act, as anxiety levels rise, the desire to relieve that anxiety (in this case by using steroids) also rises. As the compulsive behavior begins to manifest itself, and as more compulsive acts are committed- i.e. drug intake is continued or increased- anxiety levels decline. This creates a pattern of unnecessary psychological reliance on the drugs, not necessarily to build a better physique, but rather to decrease anxiety.

It’s my hope that this article has shed some light on a somewhat taboo subject, and maybe even helped to provide a warning and some safety for women considering the plunge into the world of anabolics. They can be safely used, and I’ve seen them produce incredible results in many women…but I’ve also seen psychological compulsion drive their use to the upper limits and coaches who serve to convince their clients to use them far too haphazardly, without thought to the consequences. And that’s something I hope to see change, maybe just a bit, by writing an article like this. Women run a far greater risk from the use of anabolic use than men do, and seeing the way it’s escalated in the past few years (on the women’s side of things) makes me cringe. A sensible approach needs to be undertaken; with caution replacing the current mindset of random experimentation and listening to "gurus" or even worse, internet personas and message-board-experts…I truly hope that I’ve contributed to a future shift in thinking about women and anabolics, in at least some small way.

Tatyana · Apr 13, 2009

Great article.

Maybe it is something particular to England, but I think the changes in voice is FAR more common than he/she? states.

I only know of one woman so far that hasn't androgenised her voice (and everything else to be honest), and I wouldn't be surprised if she has gone on to do so now.

Most of the women that I know who are using steroids are competing in figure and bodybuilding.

Tatyana · Apr 22, 2009

I came across this post from a woman who goes as Edna Krabappel, I thought it was something that you need to consider before embarking on a course of steroids:

First off you need to konw I am currently working on my PHd in chemistry. For the past couple years I have been involved in a huge project at one of the universities involving steroids.

We currently have over 1500 women involved in the study...all have used or currently use steroids.

Some are athletes, some are not. I've had the pleasure to question many IFBB pros in figure, fitness, and bodybuilding.

For the subjects that aren't athletes the majority took steroids because they were told/thought/assumed that it was an easy way to change the body into something better without having to work for it. It's actually a very common misconception.

For the athletic subjects 85 percent decided to use steroids so they could perform better or place higher.

Out of all the 1500 women most regretted ever taking steroids. The biggest thing was the permanent side effects that they have gained. The biggest one the ladies hate is the change in voice. Most said that after you get the voice you can never deny taking steroids or you are always reminded you did.

Some liked an enlarged clit and others hated it. Most liked the sex drive that went along with using.

Not one subject liked the oilier skin, acne, or hair gain...lol. Which was expected.

For the ones that did have positive gains either in fat loss or muscle gain they were pleased with that obviously.

A few said they felt guilty afterwards and just to let you know there were some IFBB pros who said this as well.

One of the girls in the study has a major bodybuilding title to her name. She told me winning that show was the high of her life but looking back she would do it all over again with no steroids. She said she wouldn't even be pro today but she absolutely hates the permanent changes. She just kept using more and more because she kept placing better and there was a point where she realized she had done permanent damage so what the hell was doing more going to do anyways.

It's been an honor to be a part of this project. I have got to speak to and even meet a few world class bodybuilders/athletes.

This study is still ongoing but so far the majority of the woman have regrets due to permanent changes. I've also found the ones that are still competing currently instead of being retired, have more positive opinions about steroids in general. Alot of the retired athletes/bodybuilders have regrets now.

biofan234 · Jun 7, 2013

Hi there got some questions and would greatly appreciate anyone's input! :qt:

First off can someone direct me to a thread about female figure models as opposed to female body builders (what I believe this thread is directed towards?)

From reading this thread, which btw is a great thread with a lot of useful information not just to women but also to men....besides the point. It seems that the short acting esters at a lower dosage (lower than 50mg/week) would be a reasonable dose for a women who is trying to get the figure model look?

If this is true what would one recommend as a weekly dose for about 4-5 weeks with a shorter acting ester such as NPP?

To be honest, I am not so much afraid of the side effects, I am more concerned on how I can lower or greatly reduce them. This is why I ask what dose would be reasonable for a short acting aster (perhaps NPP), that would keep the sides to a minimum?

Also please correct me if I am wrong but from my understanding, out of all the anabolic steroids out there (mostly mainstream).... The hormone taken with at the lowest acceptable/reasonable dose for its effects would be NPP?

I'd greatly appreciate it if someone could give me more information and recommend various short ester steroids that are known for their low androgenic side effects. Just as a quick note I am planning on running a short cycle on a very small dose.... I believe 50mg/week is too much for what I am trying to accomplish.

Thank you for your time and thank you for listening!

caligirl85 · Jun 7, 2013

biofan234 said:
Hi there got some questions and would greatly appreciate anyone's input!

First off can someone direct me to a thread about female figure models as opposed to female body builders (what I believe this thread is directed towards?)

From reading this thread, which btw is a great thread with a lot of useful information not just to women but also to men....besides the point. It seems that the short acting esters at a lower dosage (lower than 50mg/week) would be a reasonable dose for a women who is trying to get the figure model look?

If this is true what would one recommend as a weekly dose for about 4-5 weeks with a shorter acting ester such as NPP?

To be honest, I am not so much afraid of the side effects, I am more concerned on how I can lower or greatly reduce them. This is why I ask what dose would be reasonable for a short acting aster (perhaps NPP), that would keep the sides to a minimum?

Also please correct me if I am wrong but from my understanding, out of all the anabolic steroids out there (mostly mainstream).... The hormone taken with at the lowest acceptable/reasonable dose for its effects would be NPP?

I'd greatly appreciate it if someone could give me more information and recommend various short ester steroids that are known for their low androgenic side effects. Just as a quick note I am planning on running a short cycle on a very small dose.... I believe 50mg/week is too much for what I am trying to accomplish.

Thank you for your time and thank you for listening!

Why not anavar? 2.5-5mgs per day?

caligirl85 · Jun 7, 2013

biofan234 said:
Hi there got some questions and would greatly appreciate anyone's input!

First off can someone direct me to a thread about female figure models as opposed to female body builders (what I believe this thread is directed towards?)

From reading this thread, which btw is a great thread with a lot of useful information not just to women but also to men....besides the point. It seems that the short acting esters at a lower dosage (lower than 50mg/week) would be a reasonable dose for a women who is trying to get the figure model look?

If this is true what would one recommend as a weekly dose for about 4-5 weeks with a shorter acting ester such as NPP?

To be honest, I am not so much afraid of the side effects, I am more concerned on how I can lower or greatly reduce them. This is why I ask what dose would be reasonable for a short acting aster (perhaps NPP), that would keep the sides to a minimum?

Also please correct me if I am wrong but from my understanding, out of all the anabolic steroids out there (mostly mainstream).... The hormone taken with at the lowest acceptable/reasonable dose for its effects would be NPP?

I'd greatly appreciate it if someone could give me more information and recommend various short ester steroids that are known for their low androgenic side effects. Just as a quick note I am planning on running a short cycle on a very small dose.... I believe 50mg/week is too much for what I am trying to accomplish.

Thank you for your time and thank you for listening!

Just read your post again. You might have to define figure model look? Figure as in the competition category??

This thread may use the word bodybuilders but honestly, even the bikini competitors are using. There's no guarantee for sides. It's a roll of the dice on how your body responds.

But...most women do var for a first cycle, regardless of their goals. NPP is short acting but you're looking at an injectable.

And like we say to everyone, it's all really dependent on your diet and training regimen as to how good your results will be.

1st*timer · Jul 14, 2013

This thread has been really informative, so thank you to all that have posted. I have been researching for three months and I would like some input/advise. I have been active in the gym for 7 years. I am currently pregnant and plan on doing my first cycle afterwards. I am thinking of doing clen to help me lose baby weight and get back into a clean diet and gym routine then adding var to get stronger. I have no desire at this time to compete, but have personal goals: 0-5 dead hang pull-ups/chin-ups and getting back into my pre pregnancy shape. ANY advice would be appreciated.

caligirl85 · Jul 15, 2013

1st*timer said:
This thread has been really informative, so thank you to all that have posted. I have been researching for three months and I would like some input/advise. I have been active in the gym for 7 years. I am currently pregnant and plan on doing my first cycle afterwards. I am thinking of doing clen to help me lose baby weight and get back into a clean diet and gym routine then adding var to get stronger. I have no desire at this time to compete, but have personal goals: 0-5 dead hang pull-ups/chin-ups and getting back into my pre pregnancy shape. ANY advice would be appreciated.

I thought I'd post my advice here for you and then others can chime in too. I think I read in your other thread that you were looking at clen 2 weeks after the baby? I would say absolutely not! Clen is pretty dangerous and honestly, I'd give yourself AT LEAST 4-6 months to allow your body to return to normal post pregnancy before considering any supplement. The other thing with clen is that imo, the results are iffy at best. I ran it, the first time, alone, in rather high doses and was doing a contest prep diet and I honestly don't think it helped, other than to keep me wired enough to work out. There are so many other "fat burners" on the market that I'd look at before touching clen. I can honestly tell you, I will never do another clen cycle.

As for var, it will help with strength gains but again, I'd allow your body to recover and get hormonally back in balance. You can do a lot of that naturally in those first 6 months post baby.

psizzle_8 · Jul 16, 2013

I agree.

You need to give your body sufficient time before doing anything...I don't think women can even work out after giving birth til like six weeks after?

Giving birth is no small matter...putting hormones in your body after that (unless you wait several and I mean several) months is absolutely crazy

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