For you ladies that never get sore. READ THIS!!

[Hannibal]

I know that there was a thread discussing soreness as it relates to gains. Not sure if it was posted here or on the training board. But I knew that I had read something about it as it pertains to women...so I will retype it here. This is from Ironman Magazine Sept. 97'

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"NOT EVERYONE GETS SORE

Many people women in particular, almost never experience soreness-except perhaps the first time they weight train. People who are somewhat immune to soreness usually have one thing in common: They produce a lot of the female hormone estrogen. Indeed, the introduction of estrogen into muscle cells gives them great resistance and protects them from microtrauma caused by training. So there will be no fissures, no calcium toxicity and therefore no inflamation. Such people are able to submit their muscle to the greatest outrages yet sustain very little damage. Nice you say? Finally a super anticatabolic substance!

If we take this reasoning to it's logical conclusion, however, then people who don't experience soreness should be huge-especially women who train intensely. Yet the result is just the opposite. Women are smaller than men, even though they produce more growth hormone.

The explanation for that phenomenon is found in what we know about inflamation: It's caused by catabolic substances that prepare the muscle for anabolism. Therefore, without catabolism there is no anabolism- just stagnation. Those who have a high estrogen level are in a constant state of stagnation when it comes to muscle growth. What's more, women who take estrogen pills, including some birth control pills, grow more slowly than those who don't."

 

[ann]

Very interesting......I seem to be on the opposite spectrum tho I am continually sore. And not on B/C pills either.

 

[Cheetarah]

Well damn! I'm on the pill so that does help explain things. My strength does increase but it is frustrating watching my husband make quicker gains in strength than me and some of my body parts seem to gain strength a lot slower than others. I've also heard that the pill may be making it more difficult for me to get lean, stupid estrogen!

 

[thin]

Uh oh, I think I must be a man. I get sore always-- but, to me, that is THE BEST PART of working out. Ahhhh to be sore. Yummy!

 

[wyst]

Hah! My boyfriend is going to be so mad when I show him this.

Wyst

 

[FitFossil]

Uh oh, I think I must be a man. I get sore always-- but, to me, that is THE BEST PART of working out. Ahhhh to be sore. Yummy!

Me TOO! I once posted a poll on this board that said "Do you like being sore?" and everyone answered YES

 

[rez]

Well damn! I'm on the pill so that does help explain things. My strength does increase but it is frustrating watching my husband make quicker gains in strength than me and some of my body parts seem to gain strength a lot slower than others. I've also heard that the pill may be making it more difficult for me to get lean, stupid estrogen!

i will cry w you...I KNOW its the pill stopping me from being where i wana be..its sure as hell not my motivation level!

though....
i think it depends how uch estrogen...if you take a low dose ie 20mg..shouldnt affect you too much. when i was on a 30mg..i put on 3.5kg..and believe me it wasnt muscle

 

[muskles]

a little confused...

i've read before that women need more recovery time because we have less testosterone. if you don't get sore, does that mean that you recover quicker? or, are soreness and recovery separate issues?

 

[MS]

"i've read before that women need more recovery time because we have less testosterone"...................Naaaah. Women recover just as quickly or more quickly. It's just that the lack of testosterone means that the work they do does not result in the same amount of anabolism and ability to increase workload/recovery in the future.

"are soreness and recovery separate issues"

Partly. It's more correct to say that soreness and muscle growth are separate issues. Many folks make greta muscle gains but still get very very sore.

This whole concept of catabolism leading to anabolism is what cracks me up about folks who get very paranoid about eating X meals a day, or getting protein in them ASAP after a workout, or, heaven forbid, doing some cardio first thing in the AM on an empty stomach. Most people confuse much of the research which looks at short term affects on catabolism/anabolism and post wokout feeding, etc... versus the bigger picture which is NETT muscle gain over time.

Thin and Fitfossil, you're both pretty thin, and I'll bet hard cash that you both have relatively low estrogen levels. This is natural with low bodyfat. Ditto spats who's on a calorie retricted diet. Bodybuilding cutting diets wouldn't work very well for women if they didn't, in part, reduce estrogen levels. Just a theory (no hard facts). I certainly get a lot sorer the closer I get to competition. Of course, cutting diets usually reduce Test and Progesterone levels as well as increasing cortisol, so reduced estrogen in this case will not lead to muscle gain!

So is estrogen the enemy, or is lack of test the enemy? Whether you're trying to lose fat or gain muscle, it seems that too much estrogen may hinder you more than a lack of testosterone. However if you hate pain and soreness (we all know what wimps men are when it comes to pain), and want to make babies and have big boobs (without implants) then estrogen is your friend!

 

[MS]

Who am I to say. I assume you're on a calorie restricted diet because you're losing weight, and consciously attempting to lose fat. Excess calories/lots of body fat=plenty of estrogen. Submaintenance calories/low body fat=reduced estrogen. There are not many women who make it to a BB competition without feeling an increase in soreness as they get leaner. I can't say if this is due directly to reduced estrogen, or due to an overall hormonal deficiency/imbalance/lack of calories/rest or whatever. All I know is that you need VERY low estrogen levels to lose the last of the fat off of a woman's thighs! It can take me 10 days to recover from a leg workout when I'm in my last 6 weeks of a competition diet. Right now it only takes me 2-4 days......