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For ALL oral AS users: Must Read!

drveejay11

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Check this out:

Punchier Drugs--With Grapefruit Juice
A glass of grapefruit juice not only helps the pill go down, it also makes it more potent. Now, a study in the current Journal of Clinical Investigation has revealed why: A substance in the juice fights a drug-degrading enzyme in the intestine. The insight could be a first step toward increasing the effectiveness of some oral drugs.
About 3 years ago, researchers noted that grapefruit juice helps the body absorb many types of drugs, including sedatives, hormones, and protease inhibitors. A group of doctors from the University of Michigan and the London Health Sciences Centre, in London, Ontario, set out to investigate. They focused on an enzyme in the liver and intestine, called CYP3A4, that usually breaks down toxins from spoiled food. "It's [also] the most prolific of the drug-degrading enzymes," says Paul Watkins, a member of the Michigan team. In fact, it contributes to the breakdown of about half of all known human drugs.
Watkins and his colleagues gave felodipine, a calcium channel blocker used to control high blood pressure, to 10 healthy men, both with and without grapefruit juice. The grapefruit juice increased blood concentrations of felodipine more than fourfold. The team also measured the concentrations of CYP3A4 levels in the intestine and found that they fell by 62%. Something in grapefruit juice appears to be blocking the action of CYP3A4. But the concentration of CYP3A4 in the liver was unchanged--suggesting that the juice does not affect the rate at which the drug is metabolized once it enters the bloodstream.
If the active ingredient of grapefruit juice can be identified and isolated, drugs might be made more effective--and less expensive per useful dose. Adding grapefruit's CYP3A4 blocker to a pill could also assure a set dosage, an advantage, because people naturally vary 10-fold in how much of a drug they absorb. "It will make a lot of difference in the way people take drugs," predicts Raymond Woosley, a pharmacologist at Georgetown University Medical Center


Don't ask me where to get the stuff....I'm still trying to find that part out!
 
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More on this.....

GRAPEFRUIT JUICE AND DRUGS
HOW DOES GRAPEFRUIT JUICE AFFECT THE DRUGS I AM TAKING?

Grapefruit juice blocks cytochrome P-450 3A4 and Ia2 (CYP3A4 and CYP1A2) enzymes in your intestinal wall. Common to all living organisms, the body has evolved the cytochrome P-450 system, a superfamily of enzymes responsible for removing drugs and toxins from the body. The cytochrome P-450 3A4 subfamily, located predominantly in the liver and intestinal tract, is one of the most common enzyme systems for metabolizing drugs. Most drugs are lipid-soluble or"fat-loving", so that they are readily absorbed in your bloodstream. To eliminate these drugs, however, in the cytochrome P450 system either breaks them down in the gut or changes them in to a more water-soluble or "water-loving" version in the liver. The kidney can then eliminate them in the urine. Thus, the liver,gut, and kidney work together to prevent excessive amounts of drug and/or toxins from getting in to your bloodstream. Grapefruit juice blocks the cytochrome P450 3A4 enzyme systems in your gut. By inhibiting this defence mechanism, grapefruit juice may increase the blood levels of some drugs. Therefore, you may experience adverse effects from the drugs you are taking when taken with grapefruit juice.

WHICH SUBSTANCE IN THE GRAPEFRUIT JUICE IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THESE INTERACTIONS WITH DRUGS?

The precise chemical nature of the substance in the grapefruit juice that inhibits gut wall CTP 3A4 enzymes is unknown. It has been suggested that flavanoids, coumarin, or psoralen derivatives in the grapefruit juice could be the inhibitors. The amount of inhibiting substance in grapefruit juice may vary by brand, concentrations and storage conditions.

I DRINK ONE GLASS OF REGULAR GRAPEFRUIT JUICE WITH BREAKFAST IN THE MORNING, WILL THIS AFFECT THE DRUGS I AM TAKING?

Yes. Regular grapefruit juice is prepared by diluting frozen grapefruit juice with normal amount of water. Double-strength grapefruit juice is prepared by diluting frozen grapefruit juice with half the normal amount of water. One glass of regular grapefruit juice is enough to significantly raise the blood levels of the number of drugs.

FOR HOW LONG DOES THE GRAPEFRUIT JUICE INHIBIT CYP 3A4?

The inhibitory effect of grapefruit juice on CYP 3A4 can last for several hours. A recent study found increased blood levels of calcium-channel blocker felodipine (Plendil) even when the drug was given 24 hours after drinking grapefruit juice.

I TAKE AN EXTENDED RELEASE PRODUCT, IS THIS ALSO AFFECTED BY GRAPEFRUIT JUICE?

Yes. Grapefruit juice increases the blood levels of extended release preparations. Recent studies have shown increased blood levels of extended release felodipine,extended release nifedipine (Adalat, Procardia) when taken with grapefruit juice.

WHICH DRUGS ARE AFFECTED BY GRAPEFRUIT JUICE AND WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THEIR BLOOD LEVELS INCREASE?

CYP 3A4 is involved in the metabolism of many medications. When CYP 3A4 is inhibited by grapefruit juice, the blood levels of many medications may rise. Examples of drugs reported to interact are listed in the table below. Since many more drugs are likely to interact, it is important to ask your doctor or pharmacist if you drink grapefruit juice and are taking any medications.


:p
 
Thanks for the great info! I have always known to drink grapefruit juice with oral AAS, but never knew why...

My fridge is STOCKED with grapefruit juice right now for my upcoming var cycle :D

Pject
 
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Pject said:
Thanks for the great info! I have always known to drink grapefruit juice with oral AAS, but never knew why...

My fridge is STOCKED with grape juice right now for my upcoming var cycle :D

Pject

Hey bro....I hpe it was just a typo BUT you said that you have your fridge stocked with "grape" juice for upcoming var cycle. You NEED grapeFRUIT juice instead!! There's a big difference for what you are trying to achieve! Maybe it was just a typo??!!

Good luck with your upcoming var cycle---:)
 
now i dont even swollow my orals like that i usually put them under my tongue and let them desolve is this ok or would i be better of taking down with juice???
 
drveejay11 said:
If the active ingredient of grapefruit juice can be identified and isolated, drugs might be made more effective--and less expensive per useful dose. Adding grapefruit's CYP3A4 blocker to a pill could also assure a set dosage, an advantage, because people naturally vary 10-fold in how much of a drug they absorb. "It will make a lot of difference in the way people take drugs," predicts Raymond Woosley, a pharmacologist at Georgetown University Medical Center

I can see the drug companies lining up to buy the patent on this. They'll stash it away in a drawer somewhere to ensure a continued higher than necessary consumption of their products.

Such a breakthrough is clearly a threat to their bottom line.
 
SmooThy5464 said:
now i dont even swollow my orals like that i usually put them under my tongue and let them desolve is this ok or would i be better of taking down with juice???

80% of drugs taken sublingually actually end up being swallowed anyway.
 
ROLGOR said:
Is there a set amount needed? Would eating half a grapefruit work?:D

From what I've been reading 2-4 ounces with your oral will do the job quite nicely.

I am trying to loacate a product called "Narginin" which is the extract in tablet form. When I do, I will post it here.
 
About two years ago I read a good article about that same subject. There was a study done with patients going under anesthesia. They studied people who drank grapefruit juice on a regular basis and those that did not. They found that the people that drank grapefruit juice on a regular basis needed much less medication to be put to sleep and much less medication to wake up. It was a great article.

IG
 
KICK-ASS!

Thanx for whomever made this a sticky!

Hey bro's....GREAT NEWS for the time-being. I found out that a supplement called "bioperine" increases oral absorption of "drugs/other supplements" when taken at the same time!!! Bioperine comes from "black pepper extract".

From Beyond-A-Century: BIOPERINE(r) is a 95% piperine extract from the black pepper plant that is thermogenic and enhances the absorption of nutrients from the gastrointestinal tract. In 5mg doses, Bioperine enhanced the blood levels and bioavailability of a wide range of nutrients, both fat & water soluble. Powder should be mixed with other nutrients. 1 gram, $2.00. Code 866.0

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

BIOPERINE(r) 10mg tablets, 120 tabs, $7.20 Code 866.5

CHeap-as-hell !!! Until I find out more about "grapefruit" extract, this seems like a great find! Hell, all the cash we spend on orals (especially anavar/primobolan)...how could you NOT want to use this in conjunction???

http://www.beyond-a-century.com/

Let's keep this rolloin'....maybe we will be able to find the grapefruit extract as well! This DOES sound very promissing though!
 
I dont use ROIDS yet based on advise I receved in this here forum but I do take Myoplex. Is it going to be better if I take Myoplex with Grapefurit Juice or OJ or something?

Muscular Warrior
 
bump- I've heard about downing some grapefruit juice with orals but never knew why- excellent post! DO I SMELL KARMA IN THE AIR? >YUP. :p

SOLID
 
ROAD DOG said:
Should we be drinking grapefruit juice with any oral,like clomid and nolva?Or just steroids?

use it whenever you want to INCREASE the absorption rate of that particular ORAL drug (AS/clomid/Proviron--any of them!)

I would definitely at least them when using AS and it wouldn't be a bad idea to take with others as well.
 
Iwan2bsolid2 said:
bump- I've heard about downing some grapefruit juice with orals but never knew why- excellent post! DO I SMELL KARMA IN THE AIR? >YUP. :p

SOLID

What's up Solid-----you're a f'in riot bro:D
 
MuscularWarrier said:
I dont use ROIDS yet based on advise I receved in this here forum but I do take Myoplex. Is it going to be better if I take Myoplex with Grapefurit Juice or OJ or something?

Muscular Warrior

OK...this has gone too far...who are you? What board member are you? This has got to be a fucking joke at this point...
 
DR and The Machine,

Thanks bros.

For less than $15, I may give this supp a try.

Although, I now find myself addicted to Grapefruit Juice, adding this along with the GFJ cannot hurt :p

Pject
 
Pject: I don't think you'l need the supllement discussed here if you are already taking grapefruit juice with your orals. The reason for taking the supplement would be more focussed at those who aren't interested in drinking 4-8 ounces of grapefruit juice EVERY time they tske orals (could be d/t carbs in it, or inconvenience, etc...).
 
muscle warrior

good question. i did some research and spoke to bill phillips personally he told me to tell you, you should drink a gallon of grapefruit juice after your myoplex so you could get better results .
 
I'm probably a bit behind on this one...

But the study mentions a chart of alleged drug levels following grapefruit juice intake....that was supposed to be attached at the bottom.

VJ is it anywhere to be found...i'd like to check it out.

Great post, worthy of yet another bump.
 
drveejay11 said:


From what I've been reading 2-4 ounces with your oral will do the job quite nicely.

I am trying to loacate a product called "Narginin" which is the extract in tablet form. When I do, I will post it here.

We got that stuff at my GNC i work at. you figure it's better to take the tablet form of the concentrate/extract? i would hate to down all that shitty ass grapefruit juice. not to mention the calories. i suppose taking the GF tab a short time before downing the d-bol tab would work. i was going to get some GF juice, but i'll stop by work and pick up the GFJ concentrate or the narginin (i think we have both) if it works just as well or better.
 
Although I told you where to get the naringin product, remember at the time I also advised against it in favor of whole grapefruit juice or extract. They don't know exactly which compound inhibits the P450 enzyme/CYP3A4 isomer, so you are better to take the juice/extract.

Studies that I have read say that ingestion of one 8oz double-strength/16oz regular strength with a compound, or three 8 oz glasses throughout the day (for a constant increased environment) will do the trick. One study I have read makes the supposition that grapefruit extract would work the same way, although it didn't actually test the theory.

However, don't forget, it will also delay/block absorption of certain classes of compounds that are sensitive to increased p-glycoprotein (a side-effect of grapefruit ingestion). So be careful if you are on other pharms/herbs.

Here's a tip: in addition to getting 100% grapefruit juice, get the bitterest brand you can buy; naringin/naringenin (which may be entirely or partly responsible for the effect we are looking at) has a very bitter taste -- many producers use enzymes to destroy the naringin/naringenin content in grapefruit juice to make it more palatable to the consumer.

====
MORE

Interaction between drugs and grapefruit juice results in an increase in the oral bioavailability of drugs. For instance, the consumption of grapefruit juice led to a marked reduction of CYP3A4 activity in the small intestine and was associated with a five times increase in felodipine Cmax and tripled mean area under the curve (AUC) [3 and references therein]. However, the active components responsible for in vivo inhibition of CYP3A4 activity have yet to be fully determined. The predominant flavonoid in grapefruit juice is naringin and is likely to be one of the components in grapefruit that affects drug metabolism. In vitro studies reveal that flavonoids can inhibit microsomal oxidation of felodipine as well as nifedipine (12,13). However, naringin appears to be a weak inhibitor of microsomal felodipine oxidation and its aglycone, naringenin, may be a much more potent inhibitor (12). An in vivo study has demonstrated that the increase in felodipine AUC by naringin solution was much less than that observed with grapefruit juice, indicating that other factors were important (14). Further investigation using a naringin capsule formulation resulted in no change in mean or individual nisoldipine pharmacokinetics compared with water (15). A similar phenomenon occurs with quercetin, which is an inhibitor of CYP3A4. No in vivo inhibition of CYP3A4 mediated metabolism of nifedipine is produced after ingestion of a high dose of quercetin (16).

Recent studies have shown that in addition to flavonoids, other compounds in grapefruit juice might be involved in the drug interaction. A furanocoumarin, 6',7'-dihydroxybergamottin was currently found to be a potent inhibitor of CYP3A4 in liver microsomes (17). Several components of grapefruit juice were isolated from extracts with ethyl acetate and found to be inhibitors of human liver microsomal CYP3A4. These compounds were identified as furanocoumarin derivatives (18). Later, analysis of ethyl acetate extracts from grapefruit juice revealed the presence of several furanocoumarins of which bergamottin, the parent compound of 6',7'-dihydroxybergamottin, is the major one and was found to be a mechanism-based inactivator of CYP3A4 in human liver microsomes (19). Other components of grapefruit juice may also contribute to the interaction with CYP3A4. The other non-flavonoid components found in grapefruit juice such as limonin and obacunone, a triterpene-derived product, also reduced microsomal testosterone 6b-hydroxylation in human liver (18). ((What does this mean?))


12.

Guengerich, F.P. and Kim, D.H.,_ In vitro inhibition of dihydropyridine oxidation and aflatoxin B1 activation in human liver microsomes by naringenin and other flavonoids. Carcinogenesis, 11: 2275-2279, 1990.
13.

Miniscalco, A., Lundahl, J., Regårdh, C.G., Edgar, B. and Eriksson, U.G.,_ Inhibition of dihydropyridine metabolism in rat and human liver microsomes by flavonoids found in grapefruit juice. J Pharmacol Exp Ther, 261:1195-1199, 1992.
14.

Bailey, D.G., Arnold, J.M.O., Munoz, C. and Spence, J.D., Grapefruit juice-felodipine interaction: mechanism, predictability, and effect of naringin. Clin Pharmacol Ther, 53:637-642, 1993.
15.

Bailey, D.G., Arnold, J.M.O., Strong, H.A., Munoz, C. and Spence, J.D.,_ Effect of grapefruit juice and naringin on nisoldipine pharmacokinetics. Clin Pharmacol Ther, 54:589-594, 1993.
16.

Rashid, J., Mckinstry, C., Renwick, A.G., Dirnhuber, M., Waller, D.G. and George, C.F.,_ Quercetin, an in vitro inhibitor of CYP3A4, does not contribute to the interaction between nifedipine and grapefruit juice. Br J Clin Pharmacol, 36:460-463, 1993.
17.

Edwards, D.J., Bellevue, F.H. and Woster, P.M., Identification of 6',7'-dihydroxybergamottin, a cytochrome P450 inhibitor in grapefruit juice. Drug Metab Dispos, 24:128-129, 1996.
18.

Fukuda, K., Ohta, T. and Yamazoe, Y., Grapefruit component interacting with rat and human P450 CYP3A: possible involvement of non-flavonoid components in drug interaction. Biol Pharm Bull, 20: 560-564, 1997.
 
Re: More on this.....

drveejay11 said:
Examples of drugs reported to interact are listed in the table below. Since many more drugs are likely to interact, it is important to ask your doctor or pharmacist if you drink grapefruit juice and are taking any medications.


:p
VJ
To clarify,
The aforementioned table is not there.

Do you have it handy?
 
THeMaCHinE said:
The other non-flavonoid components found in grapefruit juice such as limonin and obacunone, a triterpene-derived product, also reduced microsomal testosterone 6b-hydroxylation in human liver (18). ((What does this mean?))

Still want to know what this means in practical terms...
 
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