First Cycle - Test Prop and Anavar

[ace_]

Stats - 6'4 197lbs 9-10% bodyfat
Lifting for nearly 4 years
21 years old
No previous cycles, but have done 5 test booster cycles
(If you are going to post "don't do cycles so young" or "only do test your first cycle", save it.)

Doing:
Test Prop 100mg EoD for 60 days
Anavar 50mg ED for either 40 or 60 days

PCT
Clomid/Nolva

Goal: gain 10-20lbs while staying lean and/or getting leaner. I also like anavar for it's "hardening effect", drying effect, and vascularity effects.

1. Should I run the anavar for 40 or 60 days? If I only run it for 40 days, do I run it days 20-60 or 1-40?
2. Is hcg necessary for this cycle since it's only 8 weeks?
3. What side effects should I expect? I'm prone to acne and hair loss runs in the family. My hairline is already starting to recede on the front left and right sides.

 

[ALIN]

Sounds like you have made up your mind. Keep us posted how you do.

 

[ace_]

I may actually swap out the Anavar 50mg ED for Tren A 50mg EoD. I know that Tren is pretty much an absolute no-no for a first cycle, but I figure taking it at a low dose and then bumping it out to every other day should be tolerable. If I DO get bad sides from it then I can always drop it since it's the acetate ester. At 50mg EoD I highly doubt any sides I get will be so unbearably bad that I wouldn't be able to put up with them for another 48hrs if I decide to stop taking it.

I am changing sources and the one I'm going to get it from now (an online source who has great reviews) sells his stuff for about 1/3 the price of what I'd be getting locally. I'd also get it faster. The online source doesn't have anavar so Tren will do.

I will ask though, is Tren A 50mg EoD too small of a dose? This stuff is recommended at 50-150mg ED and I'll be taking it at 50mg EoD. Will I make any decent gains from 50mg EoD?

 

[jelet]

whats going bro. like i told you before. stick to test prop/var and you wont be disappointing.

 

[joeblow12345]

The sides from tren can absolutely be unbearable. That said if you can't get var then just go with prop and a solid ph like helladrol. Hella is very strong so make sure you take some n2guard with it and your good. Keep the test p at 50-75 mg day.

 

[bonacris]

If your gonna do tren then sort out your pct.. nolva and tren will result in a nice set of tits.. do some more research..
If you are prone to acne and hairloss steroids can make it worse...

You make no mention of liver support, progesterone control or estrogen control which makes me think you have no clue what your doing

Personally I think your too small to be thinking about ASS.. at 6'4 you should be well over 200lbs but your young and want things now so I'm just going to tell you to sort out your pct before your fuck yourself up for good

Sent from my HTC Sensation XL with Beats Audio X315e using EliteFitness

 

[UA_Iron]

Test prop will make you break out worse than anything you've ever used before. Ever get pimples inside your ears? If you run tren you're gonna look like a giant red-faced pimple monster

With var no liver support is needed. Run HCG if you run Tren, and think about liver support.

You're pretty thin at that height, as you get older you'll be able to put mass on easier when your metabolism slows down. Look at your diet, you're not eating enough...

 

[EZ_E]

Welcome to EF....

Your comment saying "save it" doesn't fly on this board......

 

[infraredline]

Stats - 6'4 197lbs 9-10% bodyfat
Lifting for nearly 4 years
21 years old
No previous cycles, but have done 5 test booster cycles
(If you are going to post "don't do cycles so young" or "only do test your first cycle", save it.)

Doing:
Test Prop 100mg EoD for 60 days
Anavar 50mg ED for either 40 or 60 days

PCT
Clomid/Nolva

Goal: gain 10-20lbs while staying lean and/or getting leaner. I also like anavar for it's "hardening effect", drying effect, and vascularity effects.

1. Should I run the anavar for 40 or 60 days? If I only run it for 40 days, do I run it days 20-60 or 1-40?
2. Is hcg necessary for this cycle since it's only 8 weeks?
3. What side effects should I expect? I'm prone to acne and hair loss runs in the family. My hairline is already starting to recede on the front left and right sides.

You are an idiot bro haha I hope you realize you have screwed yourself out of any help from anyone on this site by having that cocky attitude

Fortunately for you I may be the only one left willing to give you advice since you have probably pissed off everyone else

1) your pct sucks
2) Tren is a terrible idea for a first cycle
3) you don't weigh enough to be cycling yet (I weigh as much as you at the same bodyfat and I'm 5,5" and the only thing I've ever used is ostarine)
4) if you ever decide to post on this board again I would highly advise a different approach and ask for advice, not "I'm doing it regardless" and actually be open for critique
5) it's obvious you have not done any reading on this site about pct or anything for that matter and I advise you do so

If you are hell bent on cycling then so be it but I would advise you wait a little longer and put on some more weight

My advice would be do an 8 week run of ostarine, this is how it would be done

Week 1: 30mg ed
Week 2-8: 15mg ed

This is what I found worked for me and I put on 10lbs with it, also this is the way russianstar (Dr. Philip Filmanov) recommends it

Another common cycle that seems to work well for the users here is as follows:

1-8 25mg ed

The pct for both of the above cycles is

9-13 post cycle unleashed combo or forged post cycle

I advise you to be more open and take this advice

 

[ace_]

If your gonna do tren then sort out your pct.. nolva and tren will result in a nice set of tits.. do some more research..
If you are prone to acne and hairloss steroids can make it worse...

You make no mention of liver support, progesterone control or estrogen control which makes me think you have no clue what your doing

Personally I think your too small to be thinking about ASS.. at 6'4 you should be well over 200lbs but your young and want things now so I'm just going to tell you to sort out your pct before your fuck yourself up for good

Sent from my HTC Sensation XL with Beats Audio X315e using EliteFitness

Nolva with Tren will result in tits, yeah. Nolva as a PCT after tren is fine.

Why would I need liver support with Tren? I have never heard of that in any of the research I've done. I even just googled it and there's no mention of needing liver support with tren.

I have Arimadex on hand for estrogen control, if needed. I'll also be taking hcg the last 4 weeks prior to starting the PCT. I have clomid and nolva for PCT but plan on swapping out the clomid for torem. However, I still have clomid incase I can't get torem. And let's not forget this is 50mg EoD of tren ace, which is the smallest dose I can find any threads of anyone ever doing.

I am prone to acne, although it's not that bad anymore. And I have a family history of hairloss. Are the sides of tren really going to be THAT bad with only 25mg ED or 50mg EoD? I find it hard to believe that a small dose of tren is going to turn my into a pimple faced monster. That being said, I plan on injecting ED to keep blood levels stable, so that should help reduce side effects slightly anyway.

My reasoning for wanting to do a more advanced cycle as my first is because after this cycle I won't be able to cycle again for over a year and want to make gains while I can. As far as the test prop goes, that is universally accepted as a good cycle for beginners. I don't understand why adding a small dose of tren takes that from acceptable to intolerable. From what I've researched, most tren users take anywhere from 50mg ED to 150mg ED. Sitting here at 25mg ED doesn't seem like much and as I said I can always just stop taking the tren if side effects get bad.

and I don't think I'm too small to start using. I do not understand how my weight is so light, but I'm pretty big as far as natty lifters go and am pretty strong as well. I weighed 213 last fall but lost a lot of weight because I got sick. I've gained all my strength back and am even stronger than I was last fall. But I haven't gained the weight back. Weight is just a number anyway. I have less bodyfat than last fall and am stronger, while being lighter.

Incline DB Bench - 110s for 8 full ROM
Squat - 315x1
DL - 405 x 1

picture:

 

[bonacris]

Do what you want.. I'll see your thread in a few months asking how to stop your nipples from lactating..

Liver supports esp n2guard aid in stopping bp issues, acne etc

But ignore all our advice seen as you know best

Sent from my HTC Sensation XL with Beats Audio X315e using EliteFitness

 

[ace_]

Test prop will make you break out worse than anything you've ever used before. Ever get pimples inside your ears? If you run tren you're gonna look like a giant red-faced pimple monster

With var no liver support is needed. Run HCG if you run Tren, and think about liver support.

You're pretty thin at that height, as you get older you'll be able to put mass on easier when your metabolism slows down. Look at your diet, you're not eating enough...

I've been eating 3600-4000 calories per day for the last 4-5 weeks. Before that I wasn't tracking but was eating quite a bit. Carbs/Protein/Fat = 50/30/20

 

[ace_]

Do what you want.. I'll see your thread in a few months asking how to stop your nipples from lactating..

Liver supports esp n2guard aid in stopping bp issues, acne etc

But ignore all our advice seen as you know best

Sent from my HTC Sensation XL with Beats Audio X315e using EliteFitness

If you're just going to passive aggressively try to tell me I need something without explaining why, then of course I'm not going to listen to you. Especially since a quick google search doesn't back you up.

That being said, I would be more than happy to listen to you if you'd explain why. I came to this forum for help with the cycle. The disclaimer in the OP was that I didn't want people telling me I was too young or that tren was a bad idea. As far as any other advice goes, I'm all ears.

 

[bonacris]

I'll make it very simple for you.. I think doing a cycle is a terrible idea

Your too young

Too small.

Multiple compounds on 1st cycle

Tren on 1st cycle

Nolva and tren together

Clomid and nolva together fucking old school..

Thinking that a small dose is ok. Tren will shut you down hard regardless of dose

Get advice, ignore it and think you know better.

Shitty attitidue-IMO this equals immaturity


Sent from my HTC Sensation XL with Beats Audio X315e using EliteFitness

 

[infraredline]

If you're just going to passive aggressively try to tell me I need something without explaining why, then of course I'm not going to listen to you. Especially since a quick google search doesn't back you up.

That being said, I would be more than happy to listen to you if you'd explain why. I came to this forum for help with the cycle. The disclaimer in the OP was that I didn't want people telling me I was too young or that tren was a bad idea. As far as any other advice goes, I'm all ears.

I gave you advice in my above post and I even explained exactly what was wrong, you obviously ignored my post so I will post it again

You are an idiot bro haha I hope you realize you have screwed yourself out of any help from anyone on this site by having that cocky attitude

Fortunately for you I may be the only one left willing to give you advice since you have probably pissed off everyone else

1) your pct sucks
2) Tren is a terrible idea for a first cycle or in general for that matter
3) you don't weigh enough to be cycling yet (I weigh as much as you at the same bodyfat and I'm 5,5" and the only thing I've ever used is ostarine)
4) if you ever decide to post on this board again I would highly advise a different approach and ask for advice, not "I'm doing it regardless" and actually be open for critique
5) it's obvious you have not done any reading on this site about pct or anything for that matter and I advise you do so

If you are hell bent on cycling then so be it but I would advise you wait a little longer and put on some more weight

My advice would be do an 8 week run of ostarine, this is how it would be done

Week 1: 30mg ed
Week 2-8: 15mg ed

This is what I found worked for me and I put on 10lbs with it, also this is the way russianstar (Dr. Philip Filmanov) recommends it

Another common cycle that seems to work well for the users here is as follows:

1-8 25mg ed

The pct for both of the above cycles is

9-13 post cycle unleashed combo or forged post cycle

I advise you to be more open and take this advice

 

[joeblow12345]

Ok I've kinda gotten the jist of all the different opinions going on and I will explain them for you. I've ran tren many times and in currently running 700 mg of it weekly. So I'm basing my opinions on real personal experience. Like I said earlier if you don't run the ratios correctly you will be fucking miserable on tren. The night sweats are gonna happen regardless. So you need to have extra pillows, t shirts, and blankets etc to swap out throughout the night. Don't worry you will wake up frequently so you won't forget to change them when your soaked. I suggest turning the ac on high and putting a fan directly beside the bed. Other then the inconvenience you feel pretty rested even with broken sleep. Sometimes you also get terrible heartburn. It doesn't matter what you eat it will happen. The n2guard seems to really help with this. It also drastically reduces bp which will skyrocket. On 700 mg tren my bp is damn near perfect. I also have to mention if you don't control the bp, you get these awful headaches that feel like someone hit you in the head with a fucking sledge hammer. Tren is also notorious for causing limp dick just like any other nandrolone. This happens when estrogen gets too high and causes prolactin to raise. This can be negated by keeping test dose low and using an ai to control estrogen. Now if you choose to use a higher dose of test then its more difficult to control the estrogen and prolactin spikes. So you will need something to lower prolactin. Caber works the best but prami, bromo, and a few supps can also help but not as well. Caber is also very expensive and often faked. You also have to take into account that with a high test dose all the side effects are heightened drastically. While you may not need liver protection for tren you will absolutely need it for that cocktail of serms in pct. They are extremely harsh on your liver and carry a host of sides themselves. And don't assume that just because your using a low dose of tren that the sides aren't present. 200 mg tren will wreak havoc on your body and strain your lipids. Now there's a great chance that you could run tren successfully your first cycle. But if you get into trouble you don't have any experience to know what to do. Test is very easy to deal with and the only real concern is managing estrogen. Tren is a whole different ball game, and requires experience to fix problems that will happen. You don't even know how your body will respond to test, let alone one of the Strongest steroids known to man. Be smart here bro you have your whole life to play with tren. Learn to crawl before you walk and run.

 

[ace_]

Ok I've kinda gotten the jist of all the different opinions going on and I will explain them for you. I've ran tren many times and in currently running 700 mg of it weekly. So I'm basing my opinions on real personal experience. Like I said earlier if you don't run the ratios correctly you will be fucking miserable on tren. The night sweats are gonna happen regardless. So you need to have extra pillows, t shirts, and blankets etc to swap out throughout the night. Don't worry you will wake up frequently so you won't forget to change them when your soaked. I suggest turning the ac on high and putting a fan directly beside the bed. Other then the inconvenience you feel pretty rested even with broken sleep. Sometimes you also get terrible heartburn. It doesn't matter what you eat it will happen. The n2guard seems to really help with this. It also drastically reduces bp which will skyrocket. On 700 mg tren my bp is damn near perfect. I also have to mention if you don't control the bp, you get these awful headaches that feel like someone hit you in the head with a fucking sledge hammer. Tren is also notorious for causing limp dick just like any other nandrolone. This happens when estrogen gets too high and causes prolactin to raise. This can be negated by keeping test dose low and using an ai to control estrogen. Now if you choose to use a higher dose of test then its more difficult to control the estrogen and prolactin spikes. So you will need something to lower prolactin. Caber works the best but prami, bromo, and a few supps can also help but not as well. Caber is also very expensive and often faked. You also have to take into account that with a high test dose all the side effects are heightened drastically. While you may not need liver protection for tren you will absolutely need it for that cocktail of serms in pct. They are extremely harsh on your liver and carry a host of sides themselves. And don't assume that just because your using a low dose of tren that the sides aren't present. 200 mg tren will wreak havoc on your body and strain your lipids. Now there's a great chance that you could run tren successfully your first cycle. But if you get into trouble you don't have any experience to know what to do. Test is very easy to deal with and the only real concern is managing estrogen. Tren is a whole different ball game, and requires experience to fix problems that will happen. You don't even know how your body will respond to test, let alone one of the Strongest steroids known to man. Be smart here bro you have your whole life to play with tren. Learn to crawl before you walk and run.

Okay, so if I do a test prop only cycle what should the dosage be and what gains can I expect to make from the cycle?

Current pic from today, I find it hard to believe that this is too small to cycle (directed at the people saying this):

 

[joeblow12345]

Okay, so if I do a test prop only cycle what should the dosage be and what gains can I expect to make from the cycle?

Current pic from today, I find it hard to believe that this is too small to cycle (directed at the people saying this):

Your actually in pretty good shape. Your light for your height but you obviously have a decent amount of muscle. I feel your in a good position to run a cycle. If you want to run the var I think its a good idea. For test prop here is what I'd do.

1-10 test prop 100 mg eod
4-12 var 60 mg day( optional)
4-12 n2guard
1-12 adex 0.5 mg as needed( e3 or eod)
6-10 hcgenerate
10-12 hcg 500 ius twice a week

Pct 12-16
Clomid 25 mg day
Forged methyl
Forma
Igf lr3 50 mcg day( optional)

16-20 bridge and dspark

 

[ace_]

Your actually in pretty good shape. Your light for your height but you obviously have a decent amount of muscle. I feel your in a good position to run a cycle. If you want to run the var I think its a good idea. For test prop here is what I'd do.

1-10 test prop 100 mg eod
4-12 var 60 mg day( optional)
4-12 n2guard
1-12 adex 0.5 mg as needed( e3 or eod)
6-10 hcgenerate
10-12 hcg 500 ius twice a week

Pct 12-16
Clomid 25 mg day
Forged methyl
Forma
Igf lr3 50 mcg day( optional)

16-20 bridge and dspark

Thank you. I really do not understand how I'm so light either. People always think I'm 20+lbs heavier than I really am. I'd say that I must have featherweight bones but I've surprisingly never broken a bone in my life so who knows.

Anyways, I would love to take var but I don't really have access to it. The source I'm getting everything from doesn't have anavar. I have the option to get this cycle from a local source, and he can get or make anavar, but he's selling shit for like 3x the price. I wouldn't be able to get it for 2+ weeks and it's expensive as fuark.

If I got everything from the source I'm planning on getting it from, I could then place an order from the local source and get anavar a few weeks into the cycle and run it for the last 40 days of the cycle (but at 50mg ED). But it's so expensive that I don't know if I want to, and I'm not sure if it would make any difference if I just run it for the last 40 days of the cycle. What do you think about that?

edit - I could get 2000mg of Anavar for an expensive price. So if I run it 50mg ED I could run it the last 40 days of the cycle. Or I could run it 60mg/day for the last 33 days of the cycle. Is it even worth getting it?

 

[joeblow12345]

The reason I see you as light is your about 8 inches taller then me and 30lbs lighter. If u was your height I'd be trying to push 300+. Some people just aren't very heavy. Your definitely muscular and lean so its not like your a bag of bones or anything.

 

[rustilldown]

Smart move on adjusting your attitude. Now take some advice from someone who had been in your shoes. Tren can be a monster If not used correctly or if not understood how to control sides. Imagine waking up 5 times a night to piss, completely drenched, I mean soaked and shivering ; and thinking you wife / gf is conspiring with every man behind your back . You are indeed in good shape, and I won't say don't run a cycle because I was 21 once and in good shape and I didn't listen to that advice either. But do listen to this . Just run test. If you can't get anavar look into helladrol from mr supps it's a surprisingly very good oral. Or get winstrol for the last 4-6 weeks if your really hell bent on an oral. Test prop and winstrol if run correctly will result in significant strength gains . Save your tren runs for later in life when your more mature. And stop being a 21 year old deuch. You won't get far here on this site acting like that. Trust me. Control estrogen, eat clean and lift with intensity and you can expect big gains. Even on just 100 mg test prop EOD. Don't over complicate it . How will you ever know what's causing your side effects if your running a few compounds at once eh ?

 

[ace_]

Smart move on adjusting your attitude. Now take some advice from someone who had been in your shoes. Tren can be a monster If not used correctly or if not understood how to control sides. Imagine waking up 5 times a night to piss, completely drenched, I mean soaked and shivering ; and thinking you wife / gf is conspiring with every man behind your back . You are indeed in good shape, and I won't say don't run a cycle because I was 21 once and in good shape and I didn't listen to that advice either. But do listen to this . Just run test. If you can't get anavar look into helladrol from mr supps it's a surprisingly very good oral. Or get winstrol for the last 4-6 weeks if your really hell bent on an oral. Test prop and winstrol if run correctly will result in significant strength gains . Save your tren runs for later in life when your more mature. And stop being a 21 year old deuch. You won't get far here on this site acting like that. Trust me. Control estrogen, eat clean and lift with intensity and you can expect big gains. Even on just 100 mg test prop EOD. Don't over complicate it . How will you ever know what's causing your side effects if your running a few compounds at once eh ?

Helladrol is a prohormone, correct? I've never even considered taking a prohormone. I've always thought of them as half the gains of steroids with just as many sides. Also aren't they terrible for your liver?

How much of a difference will it make if I stack it with test prop? Also aren't prohormones usually one month cycles? Would I take it towards the end of my test prop cycle or towards the start?

 

[rustilldown]

Helladrol is a prohormone, correct? I've never even considered taking a prohormone. I've always thought of them as half the gains of steroids with just as many sides. Also aren't they terrible for your liver?

How much of a difference will it make if I stack it with test prop? Also aren't prohormones usually one month cycles? Would I take it towards the end of my test prop cycle or towards the start?

The last 6 weeks. And call helladrol what you want,
It's a powerful steroid . With minimum sides. I had better gains with it than anavar and I love anavar

 

[joeblow12345]

The last 6 weeks. And call helladrol what you want,
It's a powerful steroid . With minimum sides. I had better gains with it than anavar and I love anavar

Ya hella is definitely no bitch that's for sure. Some of those Superdrol clones and the original Superdrol were too much for a lot of people. Some of those ph's are no fucking joke and hella is one of them. They will absolutely yield great gains. Plus they are a lot cheaper.

 

[EZ_E]

Your actually in pretty good shape. Your light for your height but you obviously have a decent amount of muscle. I feel your in a good position to run a cycle. If you want to run the var I think its a good idea. For test prop here is what I'd do.

1-10 test prop 100 mg eod
4-12 var 60 mg day( optional)
4-12 n2guard
1-12 adex 0.5 mg as needed( e3 or eod)
6-10 hcgenerate
10-12 hcg 500 ius twice a week

Pct 12-16
Clomid 25 mg day
Forged methyl
Forma
Igf lr3 50 mcg day( optional)

+1...this is solid....

OP, you have a great base...be smart about juice and you'll go far