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"FINAL FU !!!" its on MTV2 right now ... Scary stuff , man .
- Thread starter Djimbe
- Start date
MaGilicuti
New member
its like so made for tv
Ultimate Fighter baby ...
I caught Final Fu for the first time last week... Set a season pass on Tivo for it, but havent been able to watch a single episode ... Have to FF through it all.
I take Kung Fu, and my sparring matches are more exciting than their "fights"... When trying to watch it, I just keep asking myself, what's the point of this show.
I caught Final Fu for the first time last week... Set a season pass on Tivo for it, but havent been able to watch a single episode ... Have to FF through it all.
I take Kung Fu, and my sparring matches are more exciting than their "fights"... When trying to watch it, I just keep asking myself, what's the point of this show.
Djimbe said:
What are we to do now that the BJJ and MMA McDojos are already springing up in abundance?
MikeMartial
New member
All I can say is thank god I don't get this on regular cable where I live.
This is a case of where "ignorance is bliss"
This is a case of where "ignorance is bliss"
Ianhockey91
New member
Djimbe said:
I dont think that is the point of the show. Not to mention bjj and mt are not the only arts used in modern mma, wrestling is needed more and more now, judo has a pretty good presence ans well as san shou coming up too. You get way to defensive about TMA's, it is widely known that a lot of tma's dont really work (some do, but many dont). But your really cant deny the effectiveness of submission grappling (weather it be bjj, catch, judo, sambo etc..) or MT. The fact of the matter is...they work.
Djimbe
New member
Ian - HEY , man ! Where the HELL have you been ! I wanted to Invite you to some HUGE goings on here lately , but the number you gave me before ws no longer valid ? Anyway , were a LOT closer to Running regular classes here at the school And I was going to invite you to Sportfest and the Afterparty , not to mention there was some VERY fun goings on down in Philly this weekend (brazilian insanity) Keep in Touch , man !
I have been repeatedly Chastised about Writing Missives that are "Too Long" on this board by a couple of hte members , so I Abreviated the list for , well , the sake of Brevity . Its actualy what I call the "Seven Sacred Systems" (MT, BJJ , Wrestling , Sambo , Judo , Boxing , Kyokushin) Im not ready to stick San Shou/San Da rules fighters on that list yet . Especially since most Westerners cant tell that most of them come from Contemporary Wushu , Taiji , Xingyi , Wing Chun , Bagua , and Mantis schools . Somehow the Wushu guy is HILARIOUS when hes weatring Silks , but hes TO BE FEARED when hes wearing SHorts and Boxing Gloves ? ... OOOH , Clark Kent - TAKE OFF THOSE GLASSES - IT MAKES YOU SUUUUPER !!!! heheheh
No , thats the PREVAILING MISCONCEPTION . I can take you to two different schools of the same style , that teach the same Principles and EXACTLY the same Forms , Drills , Etc . One will have EVERYONE THERE of any rank trained to Fight , and the other I could take on all by myself in a group even though they PROBABLY have 500 students . The first school is ALWAYS Smaller , the former ALWAYS bigger , etc . Its NOT ABOUT STYLE and it NEVER HAS BEEN . Its about how hard you push your Fighters , and if youre REALISTICALLY PREPARING THEM for whats coming their way .
The easiest way to see this is in Taekwondo and Kyokushin . Did you know that their Forms are the same ? They CALL them different things , but the MOVEMENTS are the same . THere are KK Forms champions , and TKD Sparring champs - so why do most TKD ppl suck by coimparison ? Because tey only spar ONE WAY - and that dosent include the Idea that getting Knocked down or falling to the Ground is a bad Idea , and it dosent Pay to use your hands .
Now I know a TKD guy thats about 140 and can keep a 200 lb heavy Bag at a 45 Degree Angle with punches . I also know a LOT of otehrs that would break their Wrists trying that shit . WHats the difference ? Well , if you ever look at a TKD Form there are actually more hand movements than foot moves . A LOT more . Its like 70-30 hands ! So HIS Instructor looked around and said "Why are they So Important to be this preveant , but we dont USE them ? And he started to look around for training tools to Implement them , and ordered some Heavy Bags and Focus Mitts . He didnt change his Style , he didnt change the Strikes out of the Form , he didnt Switch ot Boxing Punches - none of that . He used what was IN the system and used it to its best Effect .
He does NOT produce Olympians at his school . But everyone there can Fight at least a lil bit .
My Mother and my Wife Train in Muay Thai - my WIFE by my insistance , and Ive Fought in Thailand . But there anrent any Kicks in MT that arent in any Karate System . And please dont tell me that the Thai invented Knees or Elbows , Either . Muay Thai WORKS fine , but here4 are plenty of holes in the tendencies of Thai Fighters that are readily exploited . But thats another thread ... Im trying to get a Sambo Instructor in here to teach my Grappling classes (having some Facilities Issues at the moment - its causing Delays in Opening) (I have ALWAYS trained with Boxers including and up to Tyson when he was in Phoenix , and when I lived in Arizona I trained regularly with the ASU Wrestling Team , and I train at the Lehigh Wrestling room now . and when I was a kid one of my Best Mates was a 3rd dan in Judo .
Ive trained with and against ALL of these p[pl , and I Practivce Wing Chun and Taijiquan . And Ive NEVER had anyone cross hands with me and tell me that - well , in mikes words "My Kungfu Sucks" . Ive ALWAYS been able to Strike , Grapple , and Throw at the top levels , and I use what I know , I dont Platypus because that makes for a Disjointed Fighter with Hitches and Holes in his game IMO . ANd Ive been training since I was THREE , so no , I wasnt always the biggest person in the room .
But Ive ALSO seen equally CRAP versons of ALL of the Above styles . Things that go on that are JUST AS BAD as any of those on the likes of the Final Fu . SOMEONE is LOSING all of those Wrestling Tourneys that schools like Lehigh are always WINNING , dont you know .
The reason I "Get So Defensive" is because blanket statements are for Idiots that have turned off their Brains . THere are cities in America where the "Traditional" (what does that mean anyway , any style MMA guys think sucks this week ? I mean Boxing and MT , and their Relative Traditions , are both WAAAY older than Wing Chun , Aikido , Bagua , and TKD combined !) school IS the best option for learning to Fight , and pretending that its SOOO HARD to just teach ppl what to look for in a good school is REDICULOUS oh , thats too hard , so well just say ANY old shite place is good enough if it calls itself a "Gym" in the stead of a "Dojo" ! Just so long as te STYLE is right , it dosent matter if htey hit like Wet Noodles !
School/Teacher > Style
Ianhockey91 said:
I have been repeatedly Chastised about Writing Missives that are "Too Long" on this board by a couple of hte members , so I Abreviated the list for , well , the sake of Brevity . Its actualy what I call the "Seven Sacred Systems" (MT, BJJ , Wrestling , Sambo , Judo , Boxing , Kyokushin) Im not ready to stick San Shou/San Da rules fighters on that list yet . Especially since most Westerners cant tell that most of them come from Contemporary Wushu , Taiji , Xingyi , Wing Chun , Bagua , and Mantis schools . Somehow the Wushu guy is HILARIOUS when hes weatring Silks , but hes TO BE FEARED when hes wearing SHorts and Boxing Gloves ? ... OOOH , Clark Kent - TAKE OFF THOSE GLASSES - IT MAKES YOU SUUUUPER !!!! heheheh
No , thats the PREVAILING MISCONCEPTION . I can take you to two different schools of the same style , that teach the same Principles and EXACTLY the same Forms , Drills , Etc . One will have EVERYONE THERE of any rank trained to Fight , and the other I could take on all by myself in a group even though they PROBABLY have 500 students . The first school is ALWAYS Smaller , the former ALWAYS bigger , etc . Its NOT ABOUT STYLE and it NEVER HAS BEEN . Its about how hard you push your Fighters , and if youre REALISTICALLY PREPARING THEM for whats coming their way .
The easiest way to see this is in Taekwondo and Kyokushin . Did you know that their Forms are the same ? They CALL them different things , but the MOVEMENTS are the same . THere are KK Forms champions , and TKD Sparring champs - so why do most TKD ppl suck by coimparison ? Because tey only spar ONE WAY - and that dosent include the Idea that getting Knocked down or falling to the Ground is a bad Idea , and it dosent Pay to use your hands .
Now I know a TKD guy thats about 140 and can keep a 200 lb heavy Bag at a 45 Degree Angle with punches . I also know a LOT of otehrs that would break their Wrists trying that shit . WHats the difference ? Well , if you ever look at a TKD Form there are actually more hand movements than foot moves . A LOT more . Its like 70-30 hands ! So HIS Instructor looked around and said "Why are they So Important to be this preveant , but we dont USE them ? And he started to look around for training tools to Implement them , and ordered some Heavy Bags and Focus Mitts . He didnt change his Style , he didnt change the Strikes out of the Form , he didnt Switch ot Boxing Punches - none of that . He used what was IN the system and used it to its best Effect .
He does NOT produce Olympians at his school . But everyone there can Fight at least a lil bit .
My Mother and my Wife Train in Muay Thai - my WIFE by my insistance , and Ive Fought in Thailand . But there anrent any Kicks in MT that arent in any Karate System . And please dont tell me that the Thai invented Knees or Elbows , Either . Muay Thai WORKS fine , but here4 are plenty of holes in the tendencies of Thai Fighters that are readily exploited . But thats another thread ... Im trying to get a Sambo Instructor in here to teach my Grappling classes (having some Facilities Issues at the moment - its causing Delays in Opening) (I have ALWAYS trained with Boxers including and up to Tyson when he was in Phoenix , and when I lived in Arizona I trained regularly with the ASU Wrestling Team , and I train at the Lehigh Wrestling room now . and when I was a kid one of my Best Mates was a 3rd dan in Judo .
Ive trained with and against ALL of these p[pl , and I Practivce Wing Chun and Taijiquan . And Ive NEVER had anyone cross hands with me and tell me that - well , in mikes words "My Kungfu Sucks" . Ive ALWAYS been able to Strike , Grapple , and Throw at the top levels , and I use what I know , I dont Platypus because that makes for a Disjointed Fighter with Hitches and Holes in his game IMO . ANd Ive been training since I was THREE , so no , I wasnt always the biggest person in the room .
But Ive ALSO seen equally CRAP versons of ALL of the Above styles . Things that go on that are JUST AS BAD as any of those on the likes of the Final Fu . SOMEONE is LOSING all of those Wrestling Tourneys that schools like Lehigh are always WINNING , dont you know .
The reason I "Get So Defensive" is because blanket statements are for Idiots that have turned off their Brains . THere are cities in America where the "Traditional" (what does that mean anyway , any style MMA guys think sucks this week ? I mean Boxing and MT , and their Relative Traditions , are both WAAAY older than Wing Chun , Aikido , Bagua , and TKD combined !) school IS the best option for learning to Fight , and pretending that its SOOO HARD to just teach ppl what to look for in a good school is REDICULOUS oh , thats too hard , so well just say ANY old shite place is good enough if it calls itself a "Gym" in the stead of a "Dojo" ! Just so long as te STYLE is right , it dosent matter if htey hit like Wet Noodles !
School/Teacher > Style
Ianhockey91
New member
I never said kung fu sucks, i never listed any arts that dont work i simply stated that many TMA's (which was a little broad, i should have said many cma's) arent as effective as a lot of the grappling arts and some of the striking arts that are more widely used weather it be on the street or in the ring. Theres also the issue of the athlete, some people are just naturally better than others. That being said youve got to question why the guys who are champions right now are mostly grappling (be it bjj/sambo/catch/greco) and boxing/MT guys. I dont disrespect anyones are, but the proof is in the pudding.
bloodinbloodout
New member
wow djimbe I'd like to come out and train at your school some time
Djimbe
New member
Ianhockey91 said:
Firstly , I never accused you of saying that , and actually those qestions are pretty readily answered ...
The fact is that THe guys that do well are hte guys that spend their whole lives training Full Contact . Grappling on one hand ofers more chance to do that will less risk of Injury , but there are other Exceptions like Boxing , but unfortunately anyone decent at that is getting WAY more $ Playing Punch Out ! Wrestyling is State Sponsored here and thats why a lot of Great American Fighters are Wrestlers . In Brazil Judo and BJJ are EXACTLY like Wrestling is here and in Russia . They start in Pee Wees and work their way up . 20 years of Four+ hour a day practices will make anyone a Monster ! MT is the same way , it became Popular because ppl trained in it FOREVER , and that kind of training leads to a certain Skill level .
People tend to allow Grappling Practices to go on moreso than Striking oriented ones nt ecause they work better , but because they Injure less . VERY few ppl end up practicing MA in the frt place - even LESS of those want someone to be in ACTUAL DANGER - which is why we see Pointsparring Crappy-Tappy like the Final Fu . MOST Soccermoms dont want their babies Marred . Hell , even in Legit schools where the Teacher has the GOODS , most ppl dont listen or dont Train Hard enough .
But the Facts are that there is NOTHING in Muay Thai that isnt Legal in San Shou rules . The random belief that its some kind of Panacea is crazy . Teres not hing Special about MT from an MA standpoint . They just have a Tradition of Farming Fighters from youth , thus making it look like heir "better" than most MAs . Not to mention the Issue that some Styles just fit some Rulesetds better .
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