Fat but not eating enough........help!!!!

[2tickets]

Hi

I am.in the.ultimate quandry.......following my absenteeism from the gym following 2operations on my hand i am now in the unenviable position having start training again where i am not eating enough calories to build muscle yet i am carrying too much bodyfat @24%.

I want to start a ckd diet but even calculating a total daily calorie amount based on needing to lose weight it still means i will.be eating more than i am.now which will surely prevent me.from losing the excess fat and i dont want to resort to cardio unless.i really need to.as.i often lose.lean weight also when i do.........

Could.do with some advice please as at the.moment it seems like.i am.going to.have to get fatter if i want to add leanmass before i can start losing the excess weight

Thank you.........have never been in this position before and really unsure what to do......

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[weight-kg]

Lets begin at looking at your bodyfat levels, sorry to say this but 24% body fat is a bit high. I understand you want to gain lean muscle mass, but that means you have to be in a caloric surplus which will increase your body fat. some advice l would offer you is to lose that excess fat to around 12-14% bf, l know its easier said than done but you can try HIIT (High Intensity Interval Training) as there is a lot of evidence showing that its one of the most efficient methods of losing body fat.

I cant post any links yet on any articles on HIIT but you can find out yourself with a google search. If you lose the fat then gaining muscle will be so much easier because the nutrients from your food will be directed to muscle tissue. I hope this helps, good luck.

 

[2tickets]

Lets begin at looking at your bodyfat levels, sorry to say this but 24% body fat is a bit high. I understand you want to gain lean muscle mass, but that means you have to be in a caloric surplus which will increase your body fat. some advice l would offer you is to lose that excess fat to around 12-14% bf, l know its easier said than done but you can try HIIT (High Intensity Interval Training) as there is a lot of evidence showing that its one of the most efficient methods of losing body fat.

I cant post any links yet on any articles on HIIT but you can find out yourself with a google search. If you lose the fat then gaining muscle will be so much easier because the nutrients from your food will be directed to muscle tissue. I hope this helps, good luck.[/QUOTE

Should i still run a ckd style.diet? I dont mind going hiit or cardiac but Im paranoid about losing too much lean weight........are there any.good supps out there that can assist?

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[WolfpackAlpha]

It really depends on how you're doing your ratios. BMR - 10% is your optimal caloric zone for fat loss, with CKD ratios (65% fat/30% protein/under 5%carbs). Most guys are eating too little, that's why they get fatter and fatter. The body works in interesting ways, the less you eat - the slower your metabolic rate.

 

[2tickets]

It really depends on how you're doing your ratios. BMR - 10% is your optimal caloric zone for fat loss, with CKD ratios (65% fat/30% protein/under 5%carbs). Most guys are eating too little, that's why they get fatter and fatter. The body works in interesting ways, the less you eat - the slower your metabolic rate.

Looking at my diet i am eating too much protein and nowhere near enough fat.........

Based on my bmr if i drop my protein intake to 30% that gives me less than 1g per lb of bodyweight. Should i be sticking to 1g per lb as a minimum re protein?

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[WolfpackAlpha]

Looking at my diet i am eating too much protein and nowhere near enough fat.........

Based on my bmr if i drop my protein intake to 30% that gives me less than 1g per lb of bodyweight. Should i be sticking to 1g per lb as a minimum re protein?

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CKD, ketosis, is protein sparing. You don't need as much protein when your body is not using it for fuel (aka using protein for energy), now your body will use fat for energy.

 

[NegroPops]

24% body fat isn't the greatest.. but its not that bad. From what you have said it seems you have good knowledge of dieting and working out. I'll assume you have a good base under neither the layer of unwanted fat. This will make it easier to cut fat down. Unfortunately, it is almost impossible to build muscle without a surplus of calories. You have been working out for awhile (assuming) so you are already passed the shock phase that can make this possible. The only other ways to do this are doing a steroid cycle, or manipulating your carb intake. In this case.. I think carb manipulating is your best bet to achieve your goals. This isn't hard by any means. All you do is cycle your carb intake, having high, medium, and low/no carb days. Then, when you are consuming those carbs, you are only eating them when your body most needs then. Breakfast and Post Workout are the best times. I think it works best to have your higher and moderate carb days on days you hit larger muscle groups in the gym.. then have the lower and no carb days on off days. Eating this way takes a bit for the results to happen, but it will cause a change in your body composition instead of just weight loss.

And I am with you on the cardio.. I fucking hate doing it. Anytime I step foot on a treadmill.. it's like I can just feel the muscle wasting away. I think when you have decreased calories, it is important not over due the cardio. Let your diet and weight training do most of the work, then add in some light cardio a few days a week. Either after hitting the weights or in the morning on an empty stomach. It is proven that this is the most effective way to cut body fat efficiently.

Finally, there are a few supplements you can take to try to help the process of gaining muscle, while losing fat. First, I would try to keep your protein consumption up, at least 1 g per pound of body weight YOU WANT TO BE. BCAAs are essential for someone that is dieting. They provide the raw materials for your muscles without the calories. You cannot have too many. I would consume them between meals, and pre/intra/post workout. Second, I would look into HMB, this is a nutrition partishener.. it will help you get the very most out of everything you eat. So it can do more, with less.

 

[WolfpackAlpha]

24% body fat isn't the greatest.. but its not that bad. From what you have said it seems you have good knowledge of dieting and working out. I'll assume you have a good base under neither the layer of unwanted fat. This will make it easier to cut fat down. Unfortunately, it is almost impossible to build muscle without a surplus of calories. You have been working out for awhile (assuming) so you are already passed the shock phase that can make this possible. The only other ways to do this are doing a steroid cycle, or manipulating your carb intake. In this case.. I think carb manipulating is your best bet to achieve your goals. This isn't hard by any means. All you do is cycle your carb intake, having high, medium, and low/no carb days. Then, when you are consuming those carbs, you are only eating them when your body most needs then. Breakfast and Post Workout are the best times. I think it works best to have your higher and moderate carb days on days you hit larger muscle groups in the gym.. then have the lower and no carb days on off days. Eating this way takes a bit for the results to happen, but it will cause a change in your body composition instead of just weight loss.

Carb cycling is a terrible idea. You'll always be stuck in the middle, not getting into ketosis and not staying out of it per-se. Your body is going to suffer and you will not make a metabolic shift to fat burning. As a result, your body will use protein for energy not fat; what is your muscle tissue made out of? protein. If don't improperly, low-carbs without ketosis can backfire, especially when bad usage advice is given.

The only way to properly run a low carb diet is via the ketogenic route, with specifically planned time-on and time-off periods.

 

[NegroPops]

LOL

I am beginning to think that you really have no idea what you are talking about.

 

[WolfpackAlpha]

LOL

I am beginning to think that you really have no idea what you are talking about.

You need to read up about bodyopus first before talking. If you're just telling people to spike their insulin and lower their growth hormone levels without a real plan, think again, that's a horrible idea.

 

[NegroPops]

I have read up on them, I know what they are, and I disagree with them. I don't think putting your body in a state of ketosis is a good thing at all. Will it burn fat..? Yes, but it also has to use our protein and amino acids for fuel for the brain, which takes those away from going to our muscles. I do not see how having your body in a state of starvation promotes any type of anabolic activity, sorry.

 

[WolfpackAlpha]

I have read up on them, I know what they are, and I disagree with them. I don't think putting your body in a state of ketosis is a good thing at all.

You can disagree all you want, but you can't disagree with science and results.

Will it burn fat..? Yes, but it also has to use our protein and amino acids for fuel for the brain, which takes those away from going to our muscles.

You clearly don't understand ketosis, as you're claiming it uses amino acids for fuel, are you kidding? First of all, a ketogenic state is a metabolic shift where you are using triglycerides and free fatty acids for fuel (ketone form); meaning, you are using fat for energy. Ketosis is protein sparing (again something you don't know), so it helps you preserve muscle tissue while burning bodyfat. In addition, you seem to no understand CKD, bodyopus or even evolutionary/TKD principles which use supercompensation; thus, there are phases for refeeds which turn a body highly anabolic without the use of steroids.

Again, do some research before putting out false data.

I do not see how having your body in a state of starvation promotes any type of anabolic activity, sorry.

Yet again, you're ignorant on the topic. High carb diets spike insulin and lower growth hormone levels; combine them with caloric deficits and your body will start using protein (your muscles) for energy along with depleting leptin levels - this spells disaster.

 

[gjohnson5]

Well I guess I need to rered bodyopus again.
I have never been a fan of ketogenic diets because what negropops explains is exactly what happens to me.
The roles of Leucine, valine and isoleucine (more so valine and isoleucine) is that they are used muscles for fuel in the absence of carbohydrates. The way you stop that is be eating carbs. Going low carb simply reduces my performance since my muscles are mostly type II and are looking for glycogen as a fuel source. Going on a low carb diet does not automatically switch PPAR into a fat only burning state. Infact I think that is misinformation if bodyopus has stated without evidence that anyone despite genetics can simply cut the carbs out of thier diet and the body will automatically switch to a fat only burning state. I disagree. The body will still be looking for carb sources for for use of type II muscle fiber. Eliminating carbs does mean amino acids get oxidized for fuel.

 

[WolfpackAlpha]

Well I guess I need to rered bodyopus again.
I have never been a fan of ketogenic diets because what negropops explains is exactly what happens to me.
The roles of Leucine, valine and isoleucine (more so valine and isoleucine) is that they are used muscles for fuel in the absence of carbohydrates. The way you stop that is be eating carbs. Going low carb simply reduces my performance since my muscles are mostly type II and are looking for glycogen as a fuel source. Going on a low carb diet does not automatically switch PPAR into a fat only burning state. Infact I think that is misinformation if bodyopus has stated without evidence that anyone despite genetics can simply cut the carbs out of thier diet and the body will automatically switch to a fat only burning state. I disagree. The body will still be looking for carb sources for for use of type II muscle fiber. Eliminating carbs does mean amino acids get oxidized for fuel.

If you're looking for high intensity performance (ex: a lot of intense cardio), you might have to run a modified TKD and Bodyopus - an anabolic/evo hybrid; timing the carbs and supercompensation around your high intensity cardio (or whatever it may be).

Ketogenic states are discussed in a myriad of scientific journals and medical publications - none of this is your or my view; this is medical fact. While, in theory, you can lower your carbs and hope ketosis comes; in reality, it's best to follow a higher fat diet which allows for a faster metabolic switch.

Over half the dieters who start any ketogenic diet, don't finish it because the first 2 weeks are terrible (it's much easier after the 2 when the metabolic shift happens). At the same time, most guys are not running ketogenic variations correctly; therefore, they suffer badly. They think they "low carb" and get into ketosis automatically, that's not true at all - you need to run a proper anabolic or bodyopus diet to get into ketosis fast. The use of high protein during a low carb diet will prevent ketosis because the body easily utilizes protein at a 58% rate. (ref below)

Jungas RL et. al. Quantitative analysis of amino acid oxidation and related gluconeogenesis in humans. Physiological Reviews (1992) 72: 419-448

 

[2tickets]

If you're looking for high intensity performance (ex: a lot of intense cardio), you might have to run a modified TKD and Bodyopus - an anabolic/evo hybrid; timing the carbs and supercompensation around your high intensity cardio (or whatever it may be).

Ketogenic states are discussed in a myriad of scientific journals and medical publications - none of this is your or my view; this is medical fact. While, in theory, you can lower your carbs and hope ketosis comes; in reality, it's best to follow a higher fat diet which allows for a faster metabolic switch.

Over half the dieters who start any ketogenic diet, don't finish it because the first 2 weeks are terrible (it's much easier after the 2 when the metabolic shift happens). At the same time, most guys are not running ketogenic variations correctly; therefore, they suffer badly. They think they "low carb" and get into ketosis automatically, that's not true at all - you need to run a proper anabolic or bodyopus diet to get into ketosis fast. The use of high protein during a low carb diet will prevent ketosis because the body easily utilizes protein at a 58% rate. (ref below)

Jungas RL et. al. Quantitative analysis of amino acid oxidation and related gluconeogenesis in humans. Physiological Reviews (1992) 72: 419-448

HELP!!! Im currently switching over to a ketogenic.diet........Ive calculated my maintenance bmr knocked off 500cal and switched my ratios around (35% pro 63% fat 2% carb)........but although i look leaner the fat scales seem to suggest i am getting fatter i.e. The % on the scales has increased!!!!

Should i further reduce my overall calories by 500and/or reduce the fat content of my diet further still???

Your advice would be greatly appreciated?!!!!!!!!

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[NegroPops]

you are carb depleted so you are going to appear flat/smaller in the mirror.

 

[gjohnson5]

HELP!!! Im currently switching over to a ketogenic.diet........Ive calculated my maintenance bmr knocked off 500cal and switched my ratios around (35% pro 63% fat 2% carb)........but although i look leaner the fat scales seem to suggest i am getting fatter i.e. The % on the scales has increased!!!!

Should i further reduce my overall calories by 500and/or reduce the fat content of my diet further still???

Your advice would be greatly appreciated?!!!!!!!!

Sent from my GT-I9100 using EliteFitness

Some people's body are predisposed to using anaerobic glycolsis for energy. Removing the carbs from the diet does not eliminate the muscles use of anaerobic glycolsis (oxidation of glucose or glycogen for ATP production) for energy , nor does it switch PPAR (especially PPAR Alpha and PPAR Gamma) into a fat only burning mode. You could decrease fat content and increase protein content in your diet. Expect the amino acids from the protein to be oxidized for fuel (gluconeogenesis) in replacement for carbs.

 

[WolfpackAlpha]

HELP!!! Im currently switching over to a ketogenic.diet........Ive calculated my maintenance bmr knocked off 500cal and switched my ratios around (35% pro 63% fat 2% carb)........but although i look leaner the fat scales seem to suggest i am getting fatter i.e. The % on the scales has increased!!!!

Should i further reduce my overall calories by 500and/or reduce the fat content of my diet further still???

Your advice would be greatly appreciated?!!!!!!!!

Sent from my GT-I9100 using EliteFitness

A few things. First , how did you calculate your caloric intake, you need to look at BMR (weight x 12) - 10%. Simple formula would be: Weight x 12 x 0.90 = daily calories
Don't just knock off a flat # like 500 without doing the numbers.

Second, you have nothing to worry about, If you're using a measuring scale like Tanita, the readings are often false. Tanita scales show the impact of dehydration on weight; as, in general, fat % increase when you're dehydrated and drop when you're hydrated. I suggest you stay away from any scales for at least the first 4 weeks of the diet.

Third, increase your liquid intake (water) and psyllium husk. In addition, take it easy on this diet - CKDs are very fluid and require patience and personal attention to detail. Keep working hard at it, don't stress a lot and follow your game-plan. In the end, you'll get all the results you want and more.