ESTROGEN(premarin) and Test in a female??Help?

[ArizonaFeeds]

My wife has been on 125 mg of test a week for 6 weeks due to previously recorded low test levels, and as a performance enhancer Also the libido enhancement has been incredible. She has felt very good and is losing BF and gaining very good muscle tone. She is now taking premarin which is.3 mg of some form of estrogen( as per the Dr. for meno). How will this effect her in regards to all the benefits of the test increase that I described? will the libido change. I know, when she was on estrogen alone before it went up very much too. Will the losses in BF slow? Hopefully someone can give us some good info. Are there any conflicts here?

ANy thoughts are welcome and hopefully a good doc or qualified individual has some god advice? Her Dr. Is not aware of her test usage.

 

[MS]

"Her Dr. Is not aware of her test usage."

Hmph, bad idea. I would venture to guess that the aromatization from 125mg test per week alone would increase her natural estrogen production quite nicely. Why was the Premarin prescribed in the first place? Menopausal symptoms? What kind? I don't feel the progestins in Premarin are entirely 'safe' or effective to begin with, and the estrogen may be too high if she's on a test cycle. Too much estrogen=increased SHBG and possibly reduced bodyfat loss. Basically if test AND estrogen are high, it may mimic endocrine diseases such as PCOS which leads to insulin resistance and weight gain or difficulties with fat loss. But I'm just speculating here. With any luck, Wilson6 will add his 2 cents.

 

[NubianBeauty]

MS what, if any anti-e do you suggest women use while using Test? Nolvadex?

 

[MS]

If you check out Wilson6's recent thread you'll see why the answer may be "don't bother with anti-Es on a test cycle". That is really a different situation to this thread though, where the question is about adding in EXTRA estrogen while on a test cycle.

Of course, if you're male and suffering from gyno, then the anti-Es may be essential.

Here's some more food for thought (cut-n-paste from an old EF thread on this topic):

I assumed (maybe incorrectly) that the question was aked with regard to fatloss rather than mass gain. In either case womens
hormones, just like mens, are subject to pretty sensitive feedback machanisms to ensure that hormonal balance is maintained. Many
obese women have high circulating estrogen levels due to aromitization of test and androstendione. They often also have higher test
levels. This is undeniable. However high levels of peripherally produced estrogen merely act to supress ovarian production so that
overall estrogen balance is more or less maintained. This is one of the reason that obesity causes infertility in women. Giving a drug
like Arimidex will reduce peripheral aromitization but lead to increased ovarian estrogen production to maintain balance. Increases in
test levels will be transient as most of this test is produced by the ovaries and is also subject to feedback inhibition, especially when
ovarian estrogen levels return to normal. If you really, really want to kill estrogen production in an otherwise healthy adult female
you will need to give her a luteinising hormone-releasing hormone (LH-RH) analogue such as Triptorelin. But before you consider any
of these drugs you should read some of the literature (and I don't mean the stuff you find in BB chat rooms) and decide for yourself if
it even makes sense at any level to inhibit peripheral aromatase activity in a female:

Obes Res 2002 Feb;10(2):115-21

The lean woman.

OBJECTIVE: In the current obesity epidemic, the ability to remain lean is beginning to be uncommon. Therefore, it was considered of
interest to characterize such subjects.
RESEARCH METHODS AND PROCEDURES: From a population of premenopausal women (n = 270), all 40 years of age, those with a
similar body mass index (BMI) as women at the age of 21 years, born the same year were selected among nonsmokers and
compared with the remaining (non-lean) nonsmoking women.
RESULTS: Lean women showed, as expected, low waist-to-hip circumference ratio and abdominal sagittal diameter as well as absence
of other disease risk factors. COMPARED WITH THE REMAINING (NON-LEAN) WOMEN, 17 BETA-ESTRADIOL WAS HIGH AND
ANDROGENS WERE LOW, whereas insulin-like growth factor I and thyroid hormones showed no differences. Dihydroepiandrosterone
sulfate was lower, whereas cortisol, measured in saliva repeatedly over a day, and adrenocorticotropin hormone were not different.
Results from questionnaires indicated higher education and socioeconomic status, frequent sports activities, and better psychosocial
adaptation and psychological health. A tetranucleotide repeat polymorphism in the fourth [corrected] intron of the aromatase P450
gene was longer among the lean (187 base pairs) than the rest of the women. Women with opposite phylogenetic characteristic have
a short microsatellite (168 base pairs) in this gene locus.
DISCUSSION: Lean, nonsmoking women enjoy an excellent health in not only anthropometric and metabolic factors, but also in
neuroendocrine, endocrine, and psychological variables. THE ENDOCRINE MEASUREMENTS (OF LEAN WOMEN) SUGGEST A
WELL-FUNCTIONING AROMATASE ENZYME, which in turn might have a genetic background, contributing to health. THE AROMATASE
GENE MIGHT BE IMPORTANT FOR REGULATION OF A LEAN PHENOTYPE.

 

[ArizonaFeeds]

THAT IS ALL GREEK TO US BUT!!!

yes, the point was increased, fat loss, increased muscle tone and over all feeling of well being, increased libido. She had been previously tested and found to be low in both test and Dhea. SO since I was on test, she wanted to try it and see if it cured her malaise and helped her get a little closer to where she wants to be physically. She is very muscular. wide lats, tiny waist, her main area of cencern is her hips and butt. She has been hitting the wieghts and has really added muscle. she has been doing some cardio. What I would consider light. 1 to 2 miles walking on the treadmill 4-5 times a week. She says it is a good pace and she feels it however. She weighed herself at 170 today at 5'5 but she is very muscular from gymnastics and the like all through growing up. However, it is more than she has ever wieghed and is very unhappy with it. Sh has added a lot of muscle and to look at her, has lost a lot of fat, although she won't agree. I think her weight gain is a lot of water, and muscle. The shoulder to waist to hips ratio is great but she is hung up on the weight. she has started on clen today. Her other idea is that she just wont eat. I told her what a bad idea that is and it accomplishes just the opposite of her goals. I think with some harder cardio and the increased muscle effecting her metabolism she will be very happy. She was using sustenon for test and should not really retain much water on it. Should I just taker her off the test? She does feel better and has no sides, other than a little clitoral enlargmnent which I think she enjos a bit. Her libido is through the roof and we both are enjoying that.

 

[ArizonaFeeds]

the dr.

also has her on meds to lower her thyroid levels for a long time now, due to an enlarged thyroid.

 

[THeMaCHinE]

Seems like multiple-ester test would be pretty unpredictable in a woman. Perhaps a single-ester test would be better in terms of monitoring dosage and side-effects. A shorter-acting ester would clear the system faster if side-effects did occur ...

Also, if test acts the same way in women as men, she will be holding a significant amount of weight from fluid retention ...

 

[wilson6]

125 mg a week is what they give F- M trannys and that keeps their E levels within normal levels for a female. No need for more estrogen with that dose of T.

My suggestion would be to have her E levels measured about 3 days after a shot of T and see where they are at. If they are within normal limits for an early follicular phase menstruating female, then don't add more E.

Having said that, at 125 mg of T per week, it won't be long until some of the more virilizing sides kick in.

W6

 

[ArizonaFeeds]

Thanks wilson

we are lowering the dosage. what do you suggest? going more to every two weeks or keeping it at one week and dropping it significantly? to say, by another third or more? I don't want her to have any masculinizing sides, I just want her to see the results she is after. Sus is all taht we have at teh moment. And tren. I thogught about a very low dose of tren for its highly lypolitic effect. It RIped me way up and fast. I can't hardly gain weight on the stuff. BUt good muscle while losing fat at a furios rate. I know trenis kind of taboo for women but I also know women on here that use it. Like they say most women would have never even admitted to using test in the past. If one could design a good cutting cycle/workout high in cardio and on clen what might someone suggets? I know they love winny but cant get it here. Incidentally we are right ON the border too, yet still the selections are lilmited where we are at.

 

[ArizonaFeeds]

not to get too personal but

if it is relevant she had a full hystorectomy and is runnning on one ovary. They had her on the estrogen to try and thicken up her uterin wall and fix the problem to avoid the surgery. This was over a year ago. I know it all boils down to good habits for her to get what she wants. I was just trying to help her achieve it a little more quickly so she will see results and feel even more motivated. But the test made her pile the muscle on. If she ripped up she would clean up with her build I will tell you, her wide lats, tiny waist, great delts. I have bben involved or at least follwed BB since 1983. She has a build and porportions that most competitive women would kill to have started out with.