Drums of War bangin' for Iran?

[Forge]

So, will everything change for the better when Bush is replaced in Jan 09?

Things will not change for the better. It does not matter whether a Republican or a Democrat is voted in, Bush has put our country into an impossible situation that will be uncomfortable to fix.

If we stay, we stretch our military and economy to the point of collapse for a loosely defined goal of ”victory”. Staying puts our country at great risk and leaves us vulnerable, not to mention paralyzed to react to any true threats that may arise. This course breeds US hatred and would (or has) increase terrorist activity levels against our country. We enable the very enemy we are hunting. Cheney himself predicted this very scenario over fifteen years ago as the result of a possible US occupation in the Middle East.

Pulling out allows our country to recover but leaves Iraq (and the entire region) in a state of chaos that will have unfavorable repercussions to the world for decades. We doom the Iraqi people to decades of poverty and fear. Hatred for the US escalates to never before seen levels worldwide, ensuring that we are a prime terrorist target for many years to come.

There is no pretty way out of this. We can’t win the war without becoming that which we fight, and giving up allows our enemies to recover and regroup against us with renewed vigor. Whatever happens next, the fallout from this war will be legendary. But not in a good way for the American people.


Nothing is going to get better, LH. We are past that point already.

 

[patsfan1379]

pwned by spellbinder

 

[Mavafanculo]

Things will not change for the better. It does not matter whether a Republican or a Democrat is voted in, Bush has put our country into an impossible situation that will be uncomfortable to fix.

If we stay, we stretch our military and economy to the point of collapse for a loosely defined goal of ”victory”. Staying puts our country at great risk and leaves us vulnerable, not to mention paralyzed to react to any true threats that may arise. This course breeds US hatred and would (or has) increase terrorist activity levels against our country. We enable the very enemy we are hunting. Cheney himself predicted this very scenario over fifteen years ago as the result of a possible US occupation in the Middle East.

Pulling out allows our country to recover but leaves Iraq (and the entire region) in a state of chaos that will have unfavorable repercussions to the world for decades. We doom the Iraqi people to decades of poverty and fear. Hatred for the US escalates to never before seen levels worldwide, ensuring that we are a prime terrorist target for many years to come.

There is no pretty way out of this. We can’t win the war without becoming that which we fight, and giving up allows our enemies to recover and regroup against us with renewed vigor. Whatever happens next, the fallout from this war will be legendary. But not in a good way for the American people.


Nothing is going to get better, lh - leutenizing hormone - - leutenizing hormone - . We are past that point already.

Eisenhower, a Repub, warned about the Military-Industrial Complex in his exit speech.

By design or incompetence, the Bushies have succeeded in gauranteeing an "enemy" for us to fight into the next century. They elevated a street gang into a Movement.

They made a mess of a region into a clusterfuck of a region. Everything they touched turned to shit. All the work of previous administrations, repub and dem, wasted.

-

 

[patsfan1379]

George W. Bush is the Anti-Christ.

 

[redsamurai]

longhorn...........what is "victory"?? What do you define as that?

 

[Longhorn85]

You guys represent the worst of the "doom and gloom" crowd.

Victory for the US in this situation could equal:

1) Stabilization of duly elected govt in Iraq, containment of terrorist activity by the Iraqi govt with support from the US including a permanent presence of troops (about 10% of what we have there now).

2) Iraqi oil flowing and generating profits, some of which go to fund our presence there. Developed Iraqi economy and employment.

3) Permanent US military presence in the heart of the middle east, with a continuous improvement of facilities and security for our guys.

4) Iran kept in check with forces ready to pounce, if necessary.

5) Builiding of a coalition of US-friendly nations in the region with combined military cooperation and training (Jordan, Egypt, Kuwait, Iraq, Lebanon).

 

[AAP]

You guys represent the worst of the "doom and gloom" crowd.

sorry if REALITY has a way of being inconvenient to your arguements.

Victory for the US in this situation could equal:

1) Stabilization of duly elected govt in Iraq, containment of terrorist activity by the Iraqi govt with support from the US including a permanent presence of troops (about 10% of what we have there now).

so you want us to never come home. sort of defeats all the talk of bushie begging for a surge if you say all that is needed is 10%. oh yeah, Iraqi terrorists (who were they again) were contained prior to our arrival.... by... Saddam. Gasp!

2) Iraqi oil flowing and generating profits, some of which go to fund our presence there. Developed Iraqi economy and employment.

So this is indeed a war for oil. Thanks, we all knew that. This next American soldier death brought to you by Halliburtoonny... stay tuned

3) Permanent US military presence in the heart of the middle east, with a continuous improvement of facilities and security for our guys.

for what purpose? to encourage the increase of violence against U.S.. To increase the amount of terrorists in the region? Sorry, you have nothing to prove this benefits America at all here.

4) Iran kept in check with forces ready to pounce, if necessary.

Sort of like Saddam did? Funny thing that it is... Iraq was not destablized, not terrorist infested, no in chaos like it is now when he was in charge....

5) Builiding of a coalition of US-friendly nations in the region with combined military cooperation and training (Jordan, Egypt, Kuwait, Iraq, Lebanon).

Yeah, those backass countries are really going to like being the U.S. lackeys and lapdogs. That is brilliant. Worked great so far huh?

There is no victory. To continue to grasp this delusion and bleat about it only shows the desperate fevor that you still cling to Bushies rhetoric bullshit. I guess you fell for that the Vietnam/Iraq speech he just gave too huh?

 

[Longhorn85]

1) so you want us to never come home.

2) So this is indeed a war for oil.

3) for what purpose?

4) Sort of like Saddam did?

5) Yeah, those backass countries are really going to like being the U.S. lackeys and lapdogs.

1) We have had forces in Europe since the 1940s and in Korea since the 1950s. Freedom ain't free.

2) We can have taxpayers subsidize if you prefer. Write your check now.

3) To impose our national will in that vital region of the world

4) Yeah, just like that, except no assasination attempts on US Presidents and funding of terrorists in the West Bank.

5) Jordan and Kuwait are already in cooperation. I just want to add a few more.

 

[AAP]

1) We have had forces in Europe since the 1940s and in Korea since the 1950s. Freedom ain't free.

Remind me again when the last US soldier died in Korea? When has their insurgency attacked us there?

2) We can have taxpayers subsidize if you prefer. Write your check now.

Again, dodge the question. Is it or is it not about oil?

3) To impose our national will in that vital region of the world

Yep, that certaily worked good so far. Worked great for Vietnam too didn't it?

4) Yeah, just like that, except no assasination attempts on US Presidents and funding of terrorists in the West Bank.

Yeah... and no Iranian threat while he was there, lower gas prices, no chaos, etc.. etc... etc... good trade off huh?

5) Jordan and Kuwait are already in cooperation. I just want to add a few more.

You are living a pipedream fantasy that will never come true.

 

[Longhorn85]

Remind me again when the last US soldier died in Korea?

Death and injuries occur in Korea today, during accidents as a result of combat training. This happens wherever the Army is, and it accounts for many deaths in Iraq. It is a dangerous business.

The combat stopped in Korea in 1954 but Soldiers continue to train and defend. Same in Europe and I expect the same for Iraq.