Drug use..

[Twitched]

I don't hear much on drug use around these parts.. yet I have a distinct feeling that drug use must be pretty popular with PLing..

I'm kind of an "expert" on steroids (I was a nerdy mathematics genius before I started building, now I'm a nerd with a 19 inch neck )..yet I havn't used since I switched to PLing from BBing.. I know 500mg of Testoviron + 75mg/day of fina would do wonders for my strength.. but.. I don't know.. maybe PLers dont use drugs.. maybe it's too dangerous when doing ME work..


So.. spill it guys .. If you aren't comfortable, that's okay.. I am just curious.. what is the status quo..the pro bbing status quo is GH, Testosterone, Insulin. The trio of mass. No one is competitive without that trio on the pro level..


Whats the deal in the PLing circuit?

 

[benchmonster]

These kinds of threads are not usually well responded to. We are competitive athletes, and even though we go by handles, many of us are known to each other, and have been featured in PLUSA, and other mags, therefore, it is tough to get a frank discussion regarding juice.

Some orgs test for juice, some do not. But for the reasons mentioned above and others it is tough to get a frank juice discussion going here.

With that said, powerlifters don't mess with insulin, growth hormone, and that sort of thing too much. Most who use, go with test and deca, and fina. Those well heeled might go for anavar, but nobody I know personally go with much other than test, deca and fina.

I cannot tell you about the amounts every single powerlifters use, but in my experience, they use far far less than bodybuilders.

We are trying to get as strong as possible, and are not generally trying to go for hypertrophy. I know if I can gain a hundred pounds on my bench, and not gain a pound of bodyweight, then I would be happier than if I gained a lot on my bench but my bodyweight went way up too.

Hope this helps, and don't expect too much out of this thread.

B.

 

[Thaibox]

I'm certainly not in the pro loop, but for me was the exact thing that you said. I've done several cycles, and the greatest strength response I've ever had was 500Testoviron...75Fina/day(comp-th)....400Primo. Unfortunately I failed to use logic and my I jacked my shoulder half way through my cycle. I benched 405 easily with a pause before it happened, but right now I can't even do 135. Lesson learned the hard(read: "stupid") way.

 

[Twitched]

Thanks for responding..


I understand the situation...I might underestimate the level of "real world aquantance" you guys have amoung one another..

 

[Screwball]

Steroids in powerlifting. Noooo, it can't be.



Yes, steroid use is prevelant in powerlifting. Strength is the main focus with muscle mass and weight loss being secondary.

 

[Arioch]

I started back in the old days, as in before the anabolic steroid control act days. I have no problem discussing things I did before then. Now may be a different story.

However, my first cycle was good, ole' fashioned finaject, the kind you cannot get anymore. 50mg/day. Six week cycle. Kept everything I gained, both strength and size, as size was not an issue at the time.

Most powerlifters in general do not cycle as heavy as bodybuilders simply because this will put the tendons and ligaments at risk. It can take the tendons and ligaments four times as long to strength as it can the muscle tissue, secondary to AAS use.

I agree with the test, deca, and fina. If you do not grow off of some combination of those, you are dead. Deca is often run with fina to protect the joints, as I am sure you know.

In case you are wondering, my heaviest cycle pre-AAS act was fina at 100mg/day and 500mg/test/week. Actually tried halo at this time, but after two days it made me a complete psycho, even moreso than normal.

 

[Twitched]

I wrote this thread a while back for the anabolics board and I wanted to share it with you guys since anavar is really a great mild drug for this sport.. virtually a suppliment as far as I am concerned.. safer then baby food..



Well here it is, hopefully someone will find it informative, even if they are silent .


FAQ



Is oxandrolone an effective bridge?

See "Does anavar supress your HPTA".

What is the highest recommended dose for bodybuilding purposes?

From my research, the consensus is that anything over 80mg shows extreme diminishing returns.

Does oxandrolone supress your HPTA (natural testosterone production)?

Yes. Research shows as little as 2.5mg can supress in some folks. As far as the effects of this lowered test production, at 40mg a day, I would say that it's pretty much split evenly. Half of people will attest to loss of sex drive and testicular shrinkage late cycle, while about half attest that they retained sexual drive without any shrinkage. Bridging users be forewarned.

Reference: (Effect of low dose oxandrolone and testosterone treatment on the pituitary-testicular and GH axes in boys with constitutional delay of growth and puberty. Crowne EC, Wallace WH, Moore C, Mitchell R, Robertson WH, Holly JM, Shalet SM. )

Is clomid needed post cycle?

Yes. This should be apparent from the above question. You may find that 50mg/day for two weeks is enough however.

Oxandrolone and liver damage. What's the deal?

There is room for serious debate here. Oxandroline is 17-alpha-alkylated, so it's starting off on a bad foot. Oxandrolone has shown to cause liver values to sway outside of the "normal zone" for some posters (which may or may not indicate liver toxicity, this is debatable), however, the insert also states that oxandrolone can alter blood test results. I would treat this drug as liver toxic, supplimenting with a lot of ALA, Liver Detox, etc. However, this drug has also been used at 80mg/day to treat (and reverse!) liver damage in alcohol abusers. Hard to say what this means. My advice is to play it safe and treat it like any other 17aa oral.

Reference: (1: Am J Gastroenterol 1991 Sep;86(9):1200-8, A randomized, controlled trial of treatment of alcoholic hepatitis with parenteral nutrition and oxandrolone. I. Short-term effects on liver function. Bonkovsky HL, Fiellin DA, Smith GS, Slaker DP, Simon D, Galambos JT.)


Cholesterol? Heart attack time?

User experience seems to point to the fact that prolonged use does bring your good cholesterol down and your bad cholesterol up. Take your flax seed oil.

"Also, because oral steroids can decrease the "good" HDL cholesterol and increase the "bad" LDL cholesterol, oral steroids can increase the risk of cardiovascular disease (CVD). If you use oral anabolic steroids consider taking 400 to 800 IU of Vitamin E, and 1,000 to 2,000 mg. of Vitamin C with each meal. These vitamin antioxidants help to protect cholesterol from the oxidation that is associated with CVD."

(Oxandrin May Cause Liver Toxicity, by Michael Mooney (Original article in issue #7, October, 1998. Updated July, 2001)

Will grapefruit speed absorbtion?

Naringen present in grapefruit juice has shown to increase absorbtion of 17 alpha-ethinylestradiol (EE2), however, it is pure speculation as to its effects are similar in 17-alpha-alkylated substances. Hey, it cant hurt!

(Can grapefruit juice influence ethinylestradiol bioavailability? Author: Weber A; J¨ager R; B¨orner A; Klinger G; Vollanth R; Matthey K; Balogh A)


What about the different brands of Oxandrolone floating around? What to choose?

IP "10mg tabs" Street price: ~$.40/"10mg"

This product must be chewed says the "manufacturer". This product is underdosed, and of dubious purity and consistency. Lab results on a test done on another board showed the pills to contain a little over 4mg of oxandrolone.

BTG/SPA 2.5mg tabs. Street price: 1-2$ per pill.

Exceptional results can be obtained with this product using signifigantly lower doses (e.g. 25mg instead of 40mg). This can probobly be attributed to greater absorbtion via proprietary "delivery systems". Outstanding product if you can afford it.

Spanish Generic 10mg caps. Street price: $1/cap.

Nothing but positive feedback so far. Tested within pharm. margin of error (+-10%). Here are the results. These are great if you can still get them.

Percentage OX: 4.42%
Percentage moisture: 2.1%

Total OX content: 9.55mg

(Credit goes to Fonz.)

Ttokkyo Labs. 5mg tabs. Street price: around 1.50 each.

Consistent, well dosed product. Does not seem to have the absorbtion or potency of the BTG/SPA product. Because of the extreme cost, I would never choose this over BTG or SPA except for availability issues.

Side effects?

Common side effects you should be prepared for: Appetite loss, stomach discomfort, increase skin "grease". I personally suffered extreme loss of appetite, but no stomach discomfort. Appetite came back in 1 week.

Rarer side effects: acne

Overall, this is an extremely mild drug. You should experience virtually no side effects. Those you do experience will diminish over time.

As ulter once said "safer then baby food".

How long before it kicks in?

Individual thing. Varies on product line as well. BTG hits quickest, IP slowest if at all.

I noticed vascularity and hardness within 2-3 days with generics, and strength in 2.5 weeks. Huck saw strength in 3 days on BTG. Wait about 3 weeks for the full effect before you get dissapointed.

Vascularity and hardness will come quick, it's very nice. I had spiderweb viens on my pecs that I've never seen before in just 3 days on Ox.

What is this drug used for?

Involuntary weight loss. HIV, AIDS, burns etc. Liver treatment in severe alcohol induced liver damage.

What is the halflife of Ox?

~9 hours.

When should ox be dosed?

There is two camps.

Camp 1: Take it all in the morning. The rationale is that your blood concentrations will 'fall off' by the time you go to bed, which will limit HPTA impact during this crucial "recentering" time for your body.

Camp 2: Spread it out evenly through the day. This will keep blood concentrations steady. Plus, don't we want that nice anabolic substance in our veins during our growth at night?

My comments: With a halflife of 9 hours, this issue is virtually meaningless. The ideas used in "camp 1" apply well when you have a substance with a 3 hour halflife (dbol), (e.g. if 30mg of dbol is taken at 9am, only about 1 miligram is left in your bloodstream by bedtime. great.) I don't think things pan out so well with a 9 hour halflife drug. If 40mg is taken at 9am, at bedtime you will have approximately 10mg or more in your bloodstream. You would have about 15 at bedtime if you took it 4 times evenly through the day. I don't think you are giving your body any dropoff at night anyway.

Conclusion: Take it whenever you want. Choose the camp you agree with and do it, things will work out.


What gains can I expect?

Individual question. I've heard of folks with no gain in lbm, I've heard of a 15lb gain. It all depends on your diet, brand, etc. However, don't expect this to pack 3 times the punch of a sust/dbol cycle because it costs 3 times as much. .

This question is actually pretty silly, so I won't delve into it.
You CAN expect hardness and vascularity.

How about doses for women?

Go scope out the Womens discussion. However, from the grape vine I've heard of dosages starting at 2.5mg/day ramping up to 10mg/day. I wouldn't recommend more. I know little about anabolics in women though. Don't use anything but BTG/SPA. The cost is so small with female dosages and the damage done to a women's body from counterfiets is far too great. Overmore, you can't dose small amounts accurately with 10mg caps/tabs.


How long is a typical Oxandrolone cycle?

Most tend to agree longer is better with Ox. 6 weeks seems to be the minimum, while 10 weeks is recommended and common. Over 10 weeks might be stressful on the ole' liver.

Twitched

 

[b fold the truth]

From what I understand about a lot of top powerlifters...most of them stay on something year round. They consider being "off" as only bein on Deca or something. At about 12-16 weeks out they begin with high doses of androgens (test, dbol, adrol, etc...) and others like halo and fina.

Of course, this is not the given for everyone but a few of my friends who are near the top use this method.

I do believe that with strength training, most use a very mild amount compared to bodybuilding (the real bodybuilders that is) and strength is not developed in 12-16 weeks. Strength is developed over time, as is technique.

Just a few thoughts of my own...

B True

 

[Stapled to the Floor]

I own 2 old plain label cans of Joe Weider Dynamic Muscle Builder circa 1970's....I have been saving them for when I really want to get jacked!!!!!!!