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Dosing,... against the rules(I broke them!)

H

hard2handle

New member
You know what? I'm really sick of all the flaming, it's supposed to be against the rules.

I have what I would call outstanding results, (50 lbs in 5 years). I get props everywhere I go. You know the sad thing though? I can't tell you how I did it, at least not here, cause a handful of assholes will rip the thread to pieces, cause I don't follow the same regergitated protocol that they said was right.

Honestly, I'm very unconventional. I agree with alot of things as stated around here, but I disagree with alot too. If I went into specifics I would get reemed.

You know, I guess my only option is to write a book. On that note, that's why I like Nelson. I don't always like, or agree with his comments, but he's progressive and fresh. And he isn't afraid to say something that he knows people will attack him for.

I like the opportunity to discuss things here, with an open mind, and good reasoning. But it seems like when a few popular people agree on something, then it becomes gospel.

I URGE the mods to strictly inforce the NO FLAMING rule. I for one, am tired of it.

I just had the best cycle of my life, and it was WAAAYYY! off of protocol. But I'm afraid to post cause I don't want all the grief.
 
yeah, bro post the way off protocol.
i think aslong as you made solid gains and you felt good.
you must have done something right.
 
if ur about outrageous cycles lets see them!

big travis had some serious cycles i havent seen many on here who ran more then him...course he neer comes round here anymore
 
hard2handle said:
You know what? I'm really sick of all the flaming, it's supposed to be against the rules.

I have what I would call outstanding results, (50 lbs in 5 years). I get props everywhere I go. You know the sad thing though? I can't tell you how I did it, at least not here, cause a handful of assholes will rip the thread to pieces, cause I don't follow the same regergitated protocol that they said was right.

Honestly, I'm very unconventional. I agree with alot of things as stated around here, but I disagree with alot too. If I went into specifics I would get reemed.

You know, I guess my only option is to write a book. On that note, that's why I like Nelson. I don't always like, or agree with his comments, but he's progressive and fresh. And he isn't afraid to say something that he knows people will attack him for.

I like the opportunity to discuss things here, with an open mind, and good reasoning. But it seems like when a few popular people agree on something, then it becomes gospel.

I URGE the mods to strictly inforce the NO FLAMING rule. I for one, am tired of it.

I just had the best cycle of my life, and it was WAAAYYY! off of protocol. But I'm afraid to post cause I don't want all the grief.
Click to expand...


tell us ur story i wanna know how u did it because it obviously worked right....i dont agree with alot of stuff i read on here either or do things the right way all the by any means
 
I am open minded and am always looking for new, or better ways to train. I get bored doing the same routine week after week at the gym. I am all for changing it up.
 
Dude, it's the internet. People are always going to disagree.

However, in this day and age where steroids are getting pretty mainstream and easy to come by -- especially bathtub crap -- harm prevention is getting more and more important. If newbies see people doing 4g/week cycles, that's what they're going to think is normal and healthy.

You need to be able to differentiate "flaming" from "constructive criticism". I see way to many people cry FLAME! whenever someone disagrees. That is not a flame.

I'll also pose the question: Where is the line drawn between steroid use and steroid abuse?
 
post it up man, if everyone knows you're not a newb, and you're not pressing your opinion on people, then the good bros hear will welcome a different point of view. If they don't like, you'll hear it, but who cares, cause when it comes to this game its all about what works for you
 
hard2handle said:
You know what? I'm really sick of all the flaming, it's supposed to be against the rules.

I have what I would call outstanding results, (50 lbs in 5 years). I get props everywhere I go. You know the sad thing though? I can't tell you how I did it, at least not here, cause a handful of assholes will rip the thread to pieces, cause I don't follow the same regergitated protocol that they said was right.

Honestly, I'm very unconventional. I agree with alot of things as stated around here, but I disagree with alot too. If I went into specifics I would get reemed.

You know, I guess my only option is to write a book. On that note, that's why I like Nelson. I don't always like, or agree with his comments, but he's progressive and fresh. And he isn't afraid to say something that he knows people will attack him for.

I like the opportunity to discuss things here, with an open mind, and good reasoning. But it seems like when a few popular people agree on something, then it becomes gospel.

I URGE the mods to strictly inforce the NO FLAMING rule. I for one, am tired of it.

I just had the best cycle of my life, and it was WAAAYYY! off of protocol. But I'm afraid to post cause I don't want all the grief.
Click to expand...


Dude why do you care if you get flamed. Why worry about some idiots on an Internet site you wil most likely never meet.

You might help just ONE person and that will make all the flaming worth it.

Tell us what you did bro'
 
Personally I dont care how you got to where you are. Im sure most of us have our own ideas on what works and what doesnt
 
I think it shows a lack of courage. So what if someone doesn't agree with you. Is your ego so fragile that it can't stand a little heat from someone you don't give a shit about???

I don't break rules I make them.
 
samoth said:
Dude, it's the internet. People are always going to disagree.

However, in this day and age where steroids are getting pretty mainstream and easy to come by -- especially bathtub crap -- harm prevention is getting more and more important. If newbies see people doing 4g/week cycles, that's what they're going to think is normal and healthy.

You need to be able to differentiate "flaming" from "constructive criticism". I see way to many people cry FLAME! whenever someone disagrees. That is not a flame.

I'll also pose the question: Where is the line drawn between steroid use and steroid abuse?
Click to expand...

Agreed samoth with all points!!

however I also have to agree with the original point too!! there's alot of flaming that goes on... that is just not necessary and alot of those "newbies" you refer to are the ones getting the flaming!! I saw some 18 year old kid post yesterday... and then he got called a tool (if I remeber correctly) if he decides to juice... now do you think he really took those words to heart... or do you think he just thought "fuck off" and went with the guy who said go ahead an go for it... you close people's ears when you come out attacking them... and constuctive critisism is in high demand here!! as I've seen alot of name calling here that is just down right childish... not too mention just makes the board look ridiculous and unprofessional!! and I for one wouldn't miss that should it disappear!! but please don't get me wrong... I'm all for other points of view, makes for good discussion... as long as that's what we get and don't suddenly regress to children because it's a discussion forum via internet... and "discussions" degenerate into school yard banter, the only thing I've yet to miss is in some threads is "my dad could kick your dad's ass!!" I've already seen 'my country could kick your countries ass' a long hi-jacked thread not too long ago!! anyways that's it!! :)
 
Post up... I hope that I am not getting sucked in to an ad for a new product that you are selling ! LOL Share your thoughts. I will Plat-bomb all flamers for you!
 
u are a crybaby and your cycle method sucks ass only a fkn stupid mofo would do somethin like that

now post it up beeetch
 
I should be on my way to work and Im sitting here trying to find this guys unconventional cycle method (and smoking a fat ass joint). Post it up sister. We all want to see..
 
Pikaberdot said:
I want my minute and thirty seconds back.
Click to expand...

I agree. Now you have to post it. It's like telling someone that you have a secret, but then won't tell them what it is. The other thing bro is that it's the internet, it's not like words are going to come through the screen and attack you. So on that note........
 
Papa Lion seems to be only one who got my point.

I've been carving my own course for years, I'm not worried that people won't like me. I'm here cause I want to help. I heard a newb repeatedly called 'fucking retarded' and that is what pissed me off. I have never been flamed and don't mind if it happens.

Or the kid who asked if God cares, he was ripped a new one. There is no gray here, that is flaming, and is supposed to be against the rules.

I have no trouble going to another forum, where they have a genuine no flaming rule, but honestly I don't want to. There are alot of people here I like, and I picked this forum because you could talk about anything and get objective opinions. If those days are gone, then I will move on.

What we do, by definition is outside the box.(I mean bbing). We all look for ways to get the edge. I feel one of my strengths is a positive attitude. It's hard everyday to be energized and driven, but we find a way. And I find comfort in sharing that passion with other bros. But when the name calling and put downs start, that creates another mental hurdle to jump over.

Big Joe- thank you for driving my point home. Clearly my problem is lack of courage.

This is not about me feeling safe posting my program, i'm confident with my results. This is about ef being an enviornment where people can learn.(something new)

Papa Lion said:
Agreed samoth with all points!!

however I also have to agree with the original point too!! there's alot of flaming that goes on... that is just not necessary and alot of those "newbies" you refer to are the ones getting the flaming!! I saw some 18 year old kid post yesterday... and then he got called a tool (if I remeber correctly) if he decides to juice... now do you think he really took those words to heart... or do you think he just thought "fuck off" and went with the guy who said go ahead an go for it... you close people's ears when you come out attacking them... and constuctive critisism is in high demand here!! as I've seen alot of name calling here that is just down right childish... not too mention just makes the board look ridiculous and unprofessional!! and I for one wouldn't miss that should it disappear!! but please don't get me wrong... I'm all for other points of view, makes for good discussion... as long as that's what we get and don't suddenly regress to children because it's a discussion forum via internet... and "discussions" degenerate into school yard banter, the only thing I've yet to miss is in some threads is "my dad could kick your dad's ass!!" I've already seen 'my country could kick your countries ass' a long hi-jacked thread not too long ago!! anyways that's it!! :)
Click to expand...
 
hard2handle said:
Papa Lion seems to be only one who got my point.

I've been carving my own course for years, I'm not worried that people won't like me. I'm here cause I want to help. I heard a newb repeatedly called 'fucking retarded' and that is what pissed me off. I have never been flamed and don't mind if it happens.

Or the kid who asked if God cares, he was ripped a new one. There is no gray here, that is flaming, and is supposed to be against the rules.

I have no trouble going to another forum, where they have a genuine no flaming rule, but honestly I don't want to. There are alot of people here I like, and I picked this forum because you could talk about anything and get objective opinions. If those days are gone, then I will move on.

What we do, by definition is outside the box.(I mean bbing). We all look for ways to get the edge. I feel one of my strengths is a positive attitude. It's hard everyday to be energized and driven, but we find a way. And I find comfort in sharing that passion with other bros. But when the name calling and put downs start, that creates another mental hurdle to jump over.

Big Joe- thank you for driving my point home. Clearly my problem is lack of courage.

This is not about me feeling safe posting my program, i'm confident with my results. This is about ef being an enviornment where people can learn.(something new)
Click to expand...

Yo dude, if you took a gram a day, who cares? As it stands you're more likely to get criticism for being coy and provocative.

Sure, there will always be flames. It's the internet. But I think this site, in general, is pretty good and whenever someone is unfair, he's usually called on it.

Advice is something else. If you recommended 4 grams a day to newbies, I'D sure as hell call you on it. But if you're happy with your own choices, what the difference? Maybe you're over estimating your own importance a little?
 
Ok in the spirit of giving.

All this hype got this way off course. I'm not all jacked up, in fact the opposite.

Ive done 4 cycles in my life. 2 were all oral(awesome gains)
This last cycle was my longest yet at a whopping 6 weeks.
The 50 lbs in the last 5 years was with only 2 cycles. One all oral (dbowl and win) The other (dbowl, test, mast, win)this was the most recent 6 weeker.

Ive had absolutely zero side effects, with zero PCT.
I've been off this last one for a couple weeks and I feel awesome! Raging sex drive, huge loads, and great weight retention. Sure my strength has tapered off. But I've had no trouble keeping this last 20 lbs. And I'm still leaning out.

Liver toxicity: I fast before every cycle, flush entire system. (4 day minimum)

We all hear about genetic potential, well increase your potential. What you think I did during the rest of the 5 year span when I wasn't juicing? Biking (climbing hills) push ups(increase stability) Swimming(indurance, strength) trampoline(dynamic range of motion)walking on hands, bball, etc...

I eat alot of fiber, raw fruits and veggies(prefer organic). And I avoid eating poison at all costs, like soda pop, MSG, aspartame, and so on.
You want an edge, well if you had a pop yesterday, you lost your edge today.

Always have protien shake after workout, and always take nap. (always)
I consume at least 3500 cals while off, and 5000 while on. (and I know why)

Sleep minimum of 8 hrs, prefer 9 and no more.

Eat breakfast first thing 5am, whether I'm hungry or not. I eat oatmeal, even though I hate it.

OK that's the short version, What's non conventional?
1 No PCT
2 Train to increase potential, not drug to increase.
3 Short cycles are better cycles
4 Fasting (this short term sacrifice pays big returns)
5 Only train to gain once a year(rest of year is fun exercise)
6 creatine rocks!
7 Only use gear to get over humps (I'm always growing stronger in some area)
 
Sounds to me like you've done it right. I never did a cycle over 750 mgs a week or over 6 weeks in length and have held on to more muscle than guys who've used four times the dosage for months on end for years.

(As an aside, 750 was my biggest cycle. I blew up and then deflated. What's the point? I made better gains with lower dosages and kept them and had no sides. )

The only thing I'd disagree with is the use of orals ONLY because of the liver toxiciy but I've always said that orals are more potent that injectable mg for mg. If someone wants to do an all Dianabol - methandrostenolone - cycle he's bashed but the same people recommend test for a first timer. Shit, back in the 60's and 70's Dianabol - methandrostenolone - was the ONLY thing some guys took -- for bulking, for cutting, pre-contest off season, you name it. They looked fucking awesome. No clomid. No problems.
 
st8grad said:
Might need to work on a confidence issue.
Click to expand...
Agreed, but what was so hard about giving out that information. Great stuff there, no flaming necessary and I commend you for your activities and sports outside the gym.

What are your stats? Size, age?
 
Nelson Montana said:
Sounds to me like you've done it right. I never did a cycle over 750 mgs a week or over 6 weeks in length and have held on to more muscle than guys who've used four times the dosage for months on end for years.
Click to expand...

You've used Deca, right? How do you incorporate such a long estered drug into a short cycle?


Nelson Montana said:
The only thing I'd disagree with is the use of orals ONLY because of the liver toxiciy .
Click to expand...

I would think that cholesterol, along with the length of time that it takes for cholesterol to recover, would be more important than liver toxicity? I think liver toxicity is overrated compared to what methyl drugs do to cholesterol. Thoughts?
 
Guvna said:
You've used Deca-Durabolin - nandrolone decanoate - , right? How do you incorporate such a long estered drug into a short cycle?






I would think that cholesterol, along with the length of time that it takes for cholesterol to recover, would be more important than liver toxicity? I think liver toxicity is overrated compared to what methyl drugs do to cholesterol. Thoughts?
Click to expand...

Yeah, I used Deca long before I knew better. Although it's longer acting and may be present (and detectable)to a degree for months, the effects dwindle after a couple of weeks. The metabolites are there but not to an discernable level.

Cholesterol is determined by ones genetic make up. Some people's skyrocket with orals, others not so much. Concern with liver toxicity can not be overrated IMO. It can cause irreperable damage.
 
Nelson Montana said:
Yeah, I used Deca-Durabolin - nandrolone decanoate - long before I knew better. Although it's longer acting and may be present (and detectable)to a degree for months, the effects dwindle after a couple of weeks. The metabolites are there but not to an discernable level.

Cholesterol is determined by ones genetic make up. Some people's skyrocket with orals, others not so much. Concern with liver toxicity can not be overrated IMO. It can cause irreperable damage.
Click to expand...



How would you recommend running Deca?
 
I'm no expert, but I'd be willing to bet that a 6 pack or more of beer a night is worse on your liver than 20mg d-bol a day.

Could be wrong.
 
ghettostudmuffin said:
I'm no expert, but I'd be willing to bet that a 6 pack or more of beer a night is worse on your liver than 20mg Dianabol - methandrostenolone - a day.

Could be wrong.
Click to expand...


A six pack a night is insane bro.

The would not recommedn running Deca, but if you must, at a low dose with a little test and winny.
 
hard2handle said:
Ok in the spirit of giving.

All this hype got this way off course. I'm not all jacked up, in fact the opposite.

Ive done 4 cycles in my life. 2 were all oral(awesome gains)
This last cycle was my longest yet at a whopping 6 weeks.
The 50 lbs in the last 5 years was with only 2 cycles. One all oral (dbowl and win) The other (dbowl, test, mast, win)this was the most recent 6 weeker.

Ive had absolutely zero side effects, with zero PCT - post cycle therapy - .
I've been off this last one for a couple weeks and I feel awesome! Raging sex drive, huge loads, and great weight retention. Sure my strength has tapered off. But I've had no trouble keeping this last 20 lbs. And I'm still leaning out.

Liver toxicity: I fast before every cycle, flush entire system. (4 day minimum)

We all hear about genetic potential, well increase your potential. What you think I did during the rest of the 5 year span when I wasn't juicing? Biking (climbing hills) push ups(increase stability) Swimming(indurance, strength) trampoline(dynamic range of motion)walking on hands, bball, etc...

I eat alot of fiber, raw fruits and veggies(prefer organic). And I avoid eating poison at all costs, like soda pop, MSG, aspartame, and so on.
You want an edge, well if you had a pop yesterday, you lost your edge today.

Always have protien shake after workout, and always take nap. (always)
I consume at least 3500 cals while off, and 5000 while on. (and I know why)

Sleep minimum of 8 hrs, prefer 9 and no more.

Eat breakfast first thing 5am, whether I'm hungry or not. I eat oatmeal, even though I hate it.

OK that's the short version, What's non conventional?
1 No PCT
2 Train to increase potential, not drug to increase.
3 Short cycles are better cycles
4 Fasting (this short term sacrifice pays big returns)
5 Only train to gain once a year(rest of year is fun exercise)
6 creatine rocks!
7 Only use gear to get over humps (I'm always growing stronger in some area)
Click to expand...


I don't see that as non-conventional I see it as the way they trained in the seventies. Eat lots, sleep in sun to get tan, lift heavy ( you call that Train to increase potential), no pct. Where is the breaking of rules? Hell where are the rules?

Here, hug hug kiss kiss, now is it all better?
 
just the no pct is really the only thing I would really so no to... as for the rest... to each his own!! we all know that you CAN recover without pct.... however pct in it's very design is only to SPEED recovery!! and most of us don't want the the "down" time to be any longer than absolutely necessary!! glad your cycles are rolling how you like them!!
 
Ok thanks for feed back. I have signed up for 6 months of therapy to help with my lack of confidence. When asked why I felt I needed therapy, I stated "my peers suggested I needed it, when I complained they were breaking the rules, and preying on an individuals insecurities. She said "that sounds noble" I said "don't patronize me" she said, "well, I guess they were right."
 
hard2handle said:
You know what? I'm really sick of all the flaming, it's supposed to be against the rules.

I have what I would call outstanding results, (50 lbs in 5 years). I get props everywhere I go. You know the sad thing though? I can't tell you how I did it, at least not here, cause a handful of assholes will rip the thread to pieces, cause I don't follow the same regergitated protocol that they said was right.

Honestly, I'm very unconventional. I agree with alot of things as stated around here, but I disagree with alot too. If I went into specifics I would get reemed.

You know, I guess my only option is to write a book. On that note, that's why I like Nelson. I don't always like, or agree with his comments, but he's progressive and fresh. And he isn't afraid to say something that he knows people will attack him for.

I like the opportunity to discuss things here, with an open mind, and good reasoning. But it seems like when a few popular people agree on something, then it becomes gospel.

I URGE the mods to strictly inforce the NO FLAMING rule. I for one, am tired of it.

I just had the best cycle of my life, and it was WAAAYYY! off of protocol. But I'm afraid to post cause I don't want all the grief.
Click to expand...


Did your pussy hurt when you woke up on the wrong side of the bed this morning? Or maybe your man boobs have taken over control of your mind. Really . . . just SHUT THE FUCK UP. If you don't like the "flames" then get the hell out and start your own board where you can post you bitching comments elsewhere
 
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