Does The Testosterone Increase From Clomiphene/Tamox Cause The Same Hair Loss As AAS?

[mickey224]

If the point of most AAS is to raise testosterone, then won't Clomiphene (Clomid) have the same effect on hair as many AAS?

I was thinking of using Clomid or Tamoxifen long term for libido, but I need to know if I need to take finasteride and minoxidil to counteract the side effects of the resulting testosterone increase.

 

[Jack steel]

This is not a great idea bro. I recommend hcg and an AI. Tamoxifen can kill sex drive too from what I've heard. Also AAS doesn't boost testosterone, it replaces it. I'd suggest hcg and forma stanzol perhaps

 

[mickey224]

Re: Does The Testosterone Increase From Clomiphene/Tamox Cause The Same Hair Loss As

This is not a great idea bro. I recommend hcg and an AI. Tamoxifen can kill sex drive too from what I've heard. Also AAS doesn't boost testosterone, it replaces it. I'd suggest hcg and forma stanzol perhaps

I was just using tamoxifen as an example. I was going to use clomiphene. That being said, you didn't really answer my question.

I'm making the assumption here that the testosterone increased by clomiphene as the same muscle building effects as testosterone taken by injection. Is that incorrect?

 

[Mason Kray]

Hair loss is not one of the listed side effects of Clomid use. I've put an article below about Clomid which will give you more information on it.


Clomid Male Infertility Treatments – What You Need to Know

What are Clomid male infertility treatments? Anyone who is navigating the road of infertility probably recognizes Clomid as a treatment for women who have a difficulty ovulating. But the fact is that this unlikely treatment is also common for men who have infertility related to sperm quality and motility. Here’s your guide to Clomid for men:

Clomid makes more swimmers.

Low sperm count is a common cause of male infertility. In fact, there is a laundry list of reasons a man might have fewer swimmers than normal: injury to the testicles, hormonal problems, medications, smoking, and alcohol abuse, just to name a few. Men who’ve had vasectomy reversals may also experience low sperm counts.

Some reproductive specialists prescribe an oral medication called Clomid, also known as Clomiphene Citrate, to stimulate the pituitary gland to increase production of the hormones that manufacture testosterone.

Clomid makes swimmers stronger.

Even if a man has a normal sperm count, he might still have fertility issues if the sperm have what doctors call poor motility, or a reduced ability to travel to the egg. Medications, alcohol abuse, nutritional deficiencies, hormone issues, and genetic defects are some of the known culprits.

Fertility experts believe Clomid can boost the ability of sperm to complete their journey from ejaculation to fertilization.

The 411 on Clomid treatments for men.

Clomid male infertility treatments involve taking a pill once a day for about 3 to 6 months. If it’s being used to boost sperm production, the goal will be to reach 20 million or more happily-moving swimmers per ejaculation. Conventional medical thought is that if Clomid doesn’t stimulate sperm production within a few months, it is probably not the right treatment for that patient.

Once you start taking Clomid, your doctor will order regular semen analysis to find out if the drug is effective. Some health care professionals may also order testosterone tests to see if this vital fertility hormone is being stimulated.

Like many medical options, Clomid can cause side effects including temporary blurred vision, weight gain, or breast tenderness. There’s another possible side effect that can be rather embarrassing for men: breast enlargement. Talk to your doctor about the potential for all Clomid side effects.

Does Clomid for men work?

Overall, the success rate for treating male infertility with drugs is lower than the success rate for women. For example, experts expect about 20-25% of men on fertility drugs to fertilize their partner. One study found that a combination of Clomid male infertility treatments and the antioxidant vitamin E boosted sperm count and mobility. And, ultimately, 37% of the partners of the men who took the combination became pregnant, while only 13% of partners with men taking a placebo became pregnant.

Ultimately, the only way to know for sure if Clomid is your fertility solution is to talk to a reproductive specialist. Clomid male infertility treatments may be just what your body needs to start down the path toward conception.

 

[doublebicep]

Re: Does The Testosterone Increase From Clomiphene/Tamox Cause The Same Hair Loss As

Mickey224 - You are correct. Natural test has the same impact on your hair as injectable, oral or transdermal test if you have the MPB gene. It coverts to DHT which causes hairless through a process of miniaturization. Clomid does cause hair loss.

 

[mickey224]

Re: Does The Testosterone Increase From Clomiphene/Tamox Cause The Same Hair Loss As

Hair loss is not one of the listed side effects of Clomid use. I've put an article below about Clomid which will give you more information on it.

Actually- this is only about fertility. I'm curious about using Clomid long-term for increasing testosterone for:

1. muscle building effects
2. libido and erectile dysfunction

 

[El Hefe]

Clomid will raise test levels, but nowhere near the level of an AAS/Test cycle. So their effect on your hairline would not be the same.

 

[mickey224]

Re: Does The Testosterone Increase From Clomiphene/Tamox Cause The Same Hair Loss As

Clomid will raise test levels, but nowhere near the level of an AAS/Test cycle.

Do you have sources that can offer a comparison?

 

[Jbranken]

Re: Does The Testosterone Increase From Clomiphene/Tamox Cause The Same Hair Loss As

I was just using tamoxifen as an example. I was going to use clomiphene. That being said, you didn't really answer my question.

I'm making the assumption here that the testosterone increased by clomiphene as the same muscle building effects as testosterone taken by injection. Is that incorrect?

The raise in test from clomid will only be temporary and wont be anywhere near the levels achieved on cycle so don't expect "muscle building effects".

A raise in dht whether its from endogenous or exogenous elevations could speed up the hair loss process in those prone to mpb. Of course if the elevation is endogenous then the rapidness of hair loss won't be nearly as dramatic because you can't naturally reach the levels that are achievable with exogenous hormones.

 

[mickey224]

Re: Does The Testosterone Increase From Clomiphene/Tamox Cause The Same Hair Loss As

The raise in test from clomid will only be temporary and wont be anywhere near the levels achieved on cycle so don't expect "muscle building effects".

A raise in dht whether its from endogenous or exogenous elevations could speed up the hair loss process in those prone to mpb. Of course if the elevation is endogenous then the rapidness of hair loss won't be nearly as dramatic because you can't naturally reach the levels that are achievable with exogenous hormones.

Can you refer to any numbers that show the test obtained by high-dose clomiphene compared to 200mg injections test/week?

(Damn and I just bought 90 days of clomiphene while I was in Mexico!)

 

[Jbranken]

Re: Does The Testosterone Increase From Clomiphene/Tamox Cause The Same Hair Loss As

I don't have any studies but I can give you an accurate example. If clomid was successfully elevating your test levels within normal range, your total test could be somewhere in the 400-800 range (dependent upon person/age). These days, 700+ is the higher end and youd be lucky to sit in that range. 200mg of test is a little more than a normal TRT dose and I don't have an exact number for you but I've seen a guy on 100mg test EW get into the 1500-1600 range. It depends on the person but there's just no comparison if you're talking about ability to build muscle.

 

[Makaveli Tha Don]

Re: Does The Testosterone Increase From Clomiphene/Tamox Cause The Same Hair Loss As

ag guys has legit clomid and other ancillaries if anyone is wondering about where to find legit chems.

 

[Mason Kray]

Actually- this is only about fertility. I'm curious about using Clomid long-term for increasing testosterone for:

1. muscle building effects
2. libido and erectile dysfunction

The article explains what Clomid does and how it does it. In doing so it answers your questions. It works on the pituitary gland causing it to release the hormones that cause test production. Therefore in healthy males this would cause a raise in test levels. The actual amount of the rise would be dose and individual specific. As for libido and erectile disfunction. If these issues are as a result of low test then yes, Clomid use would have a positive effect on it.

 

[Nelson Montana]

Re: Does The Testosterone Increase From Clomiphene/Tamox Cause The Same Hair Loss As

Using nolvadex to increase libido is like smoking to improve endurance.

 

[doublebicep]

Re: Does The Testosterone Increase From Clomiphene/Tamox Cause The Same Hair Loss As

Deleted

 

[ceo]

Lol..nolva sucks period. Kills your libido and is heptoxic.

Funny. It never killed my libido, nor my liver. Clod sides were always worse for me than nolva sides. I never got sides from nolva.

But then I've actually had a lot of experience with both clomid and nolva so what would I know? Better to just keep listening to people who listened to people who posted some stuff some other bros were posting.

 

[Nelson Montana]

Re: Does The Testosterone Increase From Clomiphene/Tamox Cause The Same Hair Loss As

Funny. It never killed my libido, nor my liver. Clod sides were always worse for me than nolva sides. I never got sides from nolva.

But then I've actually had a lot of experience with both clomid and nolva so what would I know? Better to just keep listening to people who listened to people who posted some stuff some other bros were posting.

I've had experience with both and both killed my libido. In fact,m the "feeling" was very similar to me. Not surprising since the molecular structure is very similar.

Clomid soemtimes raises T , sometimes it doesn't sometimes it lowers estrogen, sometimes it raises it. That's the bitch of clomid. But even if it raises your T it doesn't keep it raised for long. ANd there can be a backlash of cortisol to boot. So, it's a pretty worthless drug, IMO.

 

[ceo]

Re: Does The Testosterone Increase From Clomiphene/Tamox Cause The Same Hair Loss As

OP, not sure why you would try to use clomid or tamox to boost test. If you can't or don't want to, or don't need to use Testosterone, then just use a natty test booster like Test Infusion from mrsupps, or some of the others our sponsors offer?

 

[ceo]

Re: Does The Testosterone Increase From Clomiphene/Tamox Cause The Same Hair Loss As

I've had experience with both and both killed my libido. In fact,m the "feeling" was very similar to me. Not surprising since the molecular structure is very similar.

Clomid soemtimes raises T , sometimes it doesn't sometimes it lowers estrogen, sometimes it raises it. That's the bitch of clomid. But even if it raises your T it doesn't keep it raised for long. ANd there can be a backlash of cortisol to boot. So, it's a pretty worthless drug, IMO.

I know you've had experience with them, and hey, not every drug works for everybody, and if they do they don't always work the same even though they may be structurally similar or have the same MOA. And sides may vary from person to person on the same drug, and one drug of the same class may give one person terrible sides while another drug (same class, same MOA) may give that same person no sides.

Side effects listed by drug mfg's are only possible sides, not guaranteed sides. And those sides are usually only found in a very small percentage of pt's. If those sides were guaranteed and did not outweigh the benefits of the drug (as people here seem to say) then the FDA wouldn't have approved the drug(s) in the first place. But hell, a n00b wouldn't know that from reading what people here are always posting. And most of them have little to no experience, and say stuff like "I've heard that XYZ can do ABC." They may look at a post of yours saying this drug is horrible and repost that. While you say it's horrible and you had awful sides and you can't see any reason for it and it's worthless, I would disagree and thousands if not millions of other BBers and female cancer patients might also disagree.

But at least you have had experience with both drugs and stated your opinion based on those experiences.

 

[Nelson Montana]

Re: Does The Testosterone Increase From Clomiphene/Tamox Cause The Same Hair Loss As

I know you've had experience with them, and hey, not every drug works for everybody, and if they do they don't always work the same even though they may be structurally similar or have the same MOA. And sides may vary from person to person on the same drug, and one drug of the same class may give one person terrible sides while another drug (same class, same MOA) may give that same person no sides.

Side effects listed by drug mfg's are only possible sides, not guaranteed sides. And those sides are usually only found in a very small percentage of pt's. If those sides were guaranteed and did not outweigh the benefits of the drug (as people here seem to say) then the FDA wouldn't have approved the drug(s) in the first place. But hell, a n00b wouldn't know that from reading what people here are always posting. And most of them have little to no experience, and say stuff like "I've heard that XYZ can do ABC." They may look at a post of yours saying this drug is horrible and repost that. While you say it's horrible and you had awful sides and you can't see any reason for it and it's worthless, I would disagree and thousands if not millions of other BBers and female cancer patients might also disagree.

But at least you have had experience with both drugs and stated your opinion based on those experiences.

True. But Clomid was never approved for recovery of the HPTA.

Of course, everyone reacts differently but a LOT of people get nasty sides from clomid and the benefits are dubious. So I can't in good conscience recommend it. Thousands of other bodybuilders might disagree but there have been thousands of things thousands of bodybuilders have been wrong about.

Dan Duchaine was the guy who came up with Nolvadex for treatment of gyno (no one thought of using it before him) and even HE admitted late in life that it was a shitty drug. But guys used it after a cycle to prevent estro spikes. It then then became thought of as a drug to restore HPTA , even though it does no such thing.

So you see how these things get started. It's like you said -- people just parrot what somebody supposedly more knowledgable said. So has been the case with the effectivness of clomid and nolva. It isn't just that I had a bad experience.

CLomid can work in some cases, but there are alternatives to it. That's why I feel there's no need for it.

 

[doublebicep]

Re: Does The Testosterone Increase From Clomiphene/Tamox Cause The Same Hair Loss As

Funny. It never killed my libido, nor my liver. Clod sides were always worse for me than nolva sides. I never got sides from nolva.

But then I've actually had a lot of experience with both clomid and nolva so what would I know? Better to just keep listening to people who listened to people who posted some stuff some other bros were posting.

I have experience with both as well. Clomid as part of PCT works well for me. Nolva kills my libido and blood work showed high liver values when I used it so I researched it's toxicity. I should have clearly stated my comments were based upon my experience.

I deleted my post. Apologies if I offended anyone.

 

[UA_Iron]

Re: Does The Testosterone Increase From Clomiphene/Tamox Cause The Same Hair Loss As

Clomid makes me emotional and puts my head in a daze. Nolva was always very inert feeling. I can't comment on which is more effective.

It's for these reasons alone that clomid fell out of favor to nolva a few years back. Lately it's swung back the other way.

 

[ceo]

Re: Does The Testosterone Increase From Clomiphene/Tamox Cause The Same Hair Loss As

I have experience with both as well. Clomid as part of PCT works well for me. Nolva kills my libido and blood work showed high liver values when I used it so I researched it's toxicity. I should have clearly stated my comments were based upon my experience.

I deleted my post. Apologies if I offended anyone.

I'm not offended bro. It wasn't your post I was referring to about people without experience telling others how bad nolva is. It's the countless posts you can find all over the board of bros who have never used a drug who tell others how awful it is.

 

[ceo]

Re: Does The Testosterone Increase From Clomiphene/Tamox Cause The Same Hair Loss As

Clomid makes me emotional and puts my head in a daze. Nolva was always very inert feeling. I can't comment on which is more effective.

It's for these reasons alone that clomid fell out of favor to nolva a few years back. Lately it's swung back the other way.

Yep. A few years back Clomid was the bad guy and nolva was the go to SERM. Most people were having more sides from clomid (including me) and nolva was in favor.

Clomid still produces sides for me. Last time I took it was probably 6 years ago. I have a script from my doc for nolva along with my TRT, in case I get gyno. I can't get him to script me an AI yet.

 

[Nelson Montana]

Re: Does The Testosterone Increase From Clomiphene/Tamox Cause The Same Hair Loss As

Yep. A few years back Clomid was the bad guy and nolva was the go to SERM. Most people were having more sides from clomid (including me) and nolva was in favor.

Clomid still produces sides for me. Last time I took it was probably 6 years ago. I have a script from my doc for nolva along with my TRT, in case I get gyno. I can't get him to script me an AI yet.

Docs are reluctant to script AI's because they don;t have any experience with the effects on men. WE know how much we need and why but it's not something you learn in medical school. The best bet is to talk about it with a doc but not come off like you know too much. Ask questions and make it out like he was the one who thought of it. : )

 

[ceo]

Re: Does The Testosterone Increase From Clomiphene/Tamox Cause The Same Hair Loss As

trust me, I've tried! I am going to bring it up again next time I see him. He's very cautious when scripting for off label when there's little to no research on potential long term sides. Rightly so, it's his ass on the line.

 

[FlexManning]

Re: Does The Testosterone Increase From Clomiphene/Tamox Cause The Same Hair Loss As

Clomid may have a short term effect as far as raising test levels but the long and short of it is this: because of feedback loops that it messes with the net effect is basically zero. With the exception of PCT I'm not aware of any study anywhere that indicates clomid builds muscle on its own.

 

[UA_Iron]

Re: Does The Testosterone Increase From Clomiphene/Tamox Cause The Same Hair Loss As

trust me, I've tried! I am going to bring it up again next time I see him. He's very cautious when scripting for off label when there's little to no research on potential long term sides. Rightly so, it's his ass on the line.

I thought arimidex was a very commonly prescribed AI for TRT. I thought it was accepted practice too?

A doc out here in phx will prescribe even letrozole if you need it.

 

[ceo]

Re: Does The Testosterone Increase From Clomiphene/Tamox Cause The Same Hair Loss As

I thought arimidex was a very commonly prescribed AI for TRT. I thought it was accepted practice too?

A doc out here in phx will prescribe even letrozole if you need it.

I get my TRT from my endo though, not some HRT clinic. Those guys will write just about anything you want, and you pay. My Test is covered 100% by my insurance.

 

[stephanic]

Re: Does The Testosterone Increase From Clomiphene/Tamox Cause The Same Hair Loss As

Clomid is used for treating female infertility and for certain conditions as determined by your doctor. Clomid is an ovulatory stimulant. It works by helping to produce more hormones that cause your ovaries to release.
Store Clomid at room temperature, between 59 and 86 degrees F (15 and 30 degrees C). Store away from heat, moisture, and light. Do not store in the bathroom. Keep Clomid out of the reach of children and away from pets.

 

[daveymoore1]

I was on Chlomid for 6 months. Went from 200s T levels to 640s. Felt great and has way better energy, libido, and lifted more. Last month or so though started experience RAPID hair loss - all through top of head and back. Never had anything like this before. My doc says with 95% certainty chlomid use was the reason. Now I am freaked out and trying to figure out how to address the hair loss. Obviously I stopped the Chlomid and if my urologist would have been clearer about this side effect I never would have taken it in the first place. Most docs are simply not thorough enough.

 

[mickey224]

I was on Chlomid for 6 months. Went from 200s T levels to 640s. Felt great and has way better energy, libido, and lifted more. Last month or so though started experience RAPID hair loss - all through top of head and back. Never had anything like this before. My doc says with 95% certainty chlomid use was the reason. Now I am freaked out and trying to figure out how to address the hair loss. Obviously I stopped the Chlomid and if my urologist would have been clearer about this side effect I never would have taken it in the first place. Most docs are simply not thorough enough.

I'd like to see some educated comments about this. I had crazy hair loss on my temples that started when I tried a course of test 100 for four months (3 years ago), and then continued on Clomid. The hair loss at my temples continued (albeit much slower) for the next two years, until now.