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does ephedra lower blood sugar the way caffiene does?
- Thread starter georgie24
- Start date
VictorBR
New member
wasup bro
Ephedra can in fact INCREASE blood sugar .
http://sportsmedicine.about.com/cs/nutrition/a/aa020502a.htm?iam=dpile_100
Victor
Ephedra can in fact INCREASE blood sugar .
http://sportsmedicine.about.com/cs/nutrition/a/aa020502a.htm?iam=dpile_100
Victor
You can search www.pubmed.com for "caffeine insulin resistance"
There are quite a few studies on caffeine and insulin resistance
There are quite a few studies on caffeine and insulin resistance
Guys.
STOP SAYING CAFFEINE CAUSES HYPOGLYCEMIA - BECAUSE IT DOES THE OPPOSITE.
I already TOLD YOU what to do - go to www.pubmed.com, search for "caffeine insulin resistance". There are MANY studies showing that caffeine causes short term insulin resistance, which boosts blood glucose levels, which is *hyper* glycemia, not the opposite.
K THANKS
STOP SAYING CAFFEINE CAUSES HYPOGLYCEMIA - BECAUSE IT DOES THE OPPOSITE.
I already TOLD YOU what to do - go to www.pubmed.com, search for "caffeine insulin resistance". There are MANY studies showing that caffeine causes short term insulin resistance, which boosts blood glucose levels, which is *hyper* glycemia, not the opposite.
K THANKS
You are quite simply wrong.poantrex said:
Yes,caffeine may cause insulin resistance.But what happens when you get IR?The body compensates by ramping up insulin secretion!
And it is well known that caffeine increase insulin secretion(may not even be due to the IR)
Ever wonder why some people get hypo on AAS or even GH when these cause IR?!
With caffeine having a half life up to 12 hours, it won't cause immediate hypoglycemia. If i'm not mistaken, this will only happen to insulin dependant diabetics (type 1, uncommon) and not people with normal glucose tolerance, or even those who are insulin resistant.
I've also measured my BG after downing an expresso, and I noticed consistently higher Blood glucose levels for hours afterward. NOT lower. I can't see caffeine causing hypoglycemia, since being hypo can cause unconciousness and death...gimme a break. BUT IF YOU CAN prove otherwise with a peer-reviered study, i'll welcome it.
I've also measured my BG after downing an expresso, and I noticed consistently higher Blood glucose levels for hours afterward. NOT lower. I can't see caffeine causing hypoglycemia, since being hypo can cause unconciousness and death...gimme a break. BUT IF YOU CAN prove otherwise with a peer-reviered study, i'll welcome it.
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junk
New member
All I know is that I've noticed many times lately that if I consume about 200-300 of caffeine after about 35-45 min I start feeling very lathergic, the opposite of what caffeine should be doing in most places I've read. I though it was something to do with my CNS being burned-out but I also consume about 10-13g of L-Tyrosine a day yet still the caffeine doesn't do me good. Last time I consumed it about 45min before workout and was just about to head to the gym and I gave up and headed home from work cause I felt I would get a shitty workout anyway.
posthuman said:
Do you understand insulin resistance fully? Yes, Insulin production is increased while IR. The pitutary constantly "polls" the bloodstream to see what the blood glucose level is, and when it hits a certain level it will produce insulin to distribute the glucose for other bodily functions. Problem is when IR, cells are resistant to insulin-mediated glucose uptake, you have a feedback loop that results in prolonged hyperglycemia *and* hyperinsulinia. The insulin cannot do anything with the glucose that is present because your cells intake of BG is inhibited.
What the fuck are you talking about AAS and GH causing hypoglycemia? You REALY don't know what you're talking about. I can produce about 20 studies from pubmed showing that GH causes hyperglycemia, even 40ng/dl above normal. AAS also trash insulin sensitivity, as well.
Moral...if you don't know what you're talking about, don't bother replying K THX
True, Gh does cause HYPERglycemia, NOT HYPO. I should know because I take the stuff. But anyways! Ok! WTF! WTF! WTF!!!!! I'm fuckng confused now for real! I thought caffeine was to speed you up! Wake you up and give you energy? But instead it makes you sleepy? Like Clen? So what about a ECA or ECY stack?
1. Caffeine increases FFA breakdown through an increase in c-Amp levels(Cyclic Adenosine Monophosphate)
2. It basically spares muscle glycogen in favor of an increase in FFA breakdown.
3. Caffeine IMO only raises blood sugar only when you have liver glycogen. Your liver basically dumps its glycogen(Glucose + potassium + water) into your bloodstream. This increases blood glucose levels.
4. Caffeine can cause REBOUND hypoglycaemia. But this largely depends on your insulin sensitivity. I never have, (I did use a BG monitor) but I have seen people who do.
And there is a difference between the caffeine in Coffee (No ergogenic effect seen) and that of Caffeine anhydrous tablets (Ergogenic effect definately seen). So if you want an added boost for your workouts/training, coffee won't cut it. You need caffeine tablets.
2. It basically spares muscle glycogen in favor of an increase in FFA breakdown.
3. Caffeine IMO only raises blood sugar only when you have liver glycogen. Your liver basically dumps its glycogen(Glucose + potassium + water) into your bloodstream. This increases blood glucose levels.
4. Caffeine can cause REBOUND hypoglycaemia. But this largely depends on your insulin sensitivity. I never have, (I did use a BG monitor) but I have seen people who do.
And there is a difference between the caffeine in Coffee (No ergogenic effect seen) and that of Caffeine anhydrous tablets (Ergogenic effect definately seen). So if you want an added boost for your workouts/training, coffee won't cut it. You need caffeine tablets.
Carth said:
It does speed you up. But don't you realize that blood glucose doesn't always correspond with your perceived energy level? Epehdrine, clenbuterol and pretty much all sympathomimietics increase insulin resistance and *raise* blood glucose. There are SO MANY studies documenting this, but fuck. If you want to hang on fonz' dick and take his word as gospel, so be it.
U
Ulcasterdropout
Guest
Same thing has happened to me. I can get light headed while downing stupid amounts of coffee while on low carbs...georgie24 said:
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I'm fucking confused here as hell! So bottom line, when I'm on a low carb diet, I shouldn't take a EC, ECA, ECY or ECAY stack? Then what do I take to give me a boost to go the gym at 5am everyday then? I have noticed that when I take my usual ECY stack, that lately I haven't been able to go as heavy as I used to in the gym. I'm up and awake! But not very strong anymore. And when I get out of the gym, which is usually in 1 hour, I have to stay in my car for like 20 minutes taking a nap! I get so damn sleepy! So what? Only take thermos like Clen, Ephedrine, Caffeine, yohimbine etc etc while consuming lots of carbs???? Preferably on a bulking cycle? Avoid taking these drugs while on a low carb diet??? This shit doesn't make any sense at all!
Carth said:
You can take ephedrine on whatever diet you want, because it increases the levels of several adrenal hormones that are integral to lipolysis - despite increasing insulin resistance. Ephedrine IR is usually short term unless you really, really abuse it for long periods of time...my opinion is that thermos should be cycled just like gear - and not used year round.
So use thermos like a cycle of gear. That way it do it it's true duty? Not abuse it for long time otherwise, it won't do what it's supposed to? It will actually work in reverse? Is this what your saying?
Carth said:
Nah, just not good for your health. It will cause noradrenaline and dopamine receptor downgrade in the brain, which leads to a constant sluggish feeling always after ceasing use... which for people with addictive personalities means....up the dose and continue using it.
But if you're trying to lose weight there's no real danger as long as you're not using it too long - despite the IR.
Poantrex,I'll admit I jumped the gun on the issue.Yes,I have read alot of pubmed studies on caffeine and IR and,sure,it does cause IR and elevated insulin.I assumed that the hypoglycemia some experience was due to the elevated insulin.
I personally have had severe hypo episodes on Caffeine (also measure with a glucometer).
Do you agree that insulin resistant people often suffer from hypoglycemic episodes?I have heard doctors say that sugar crashes are a sign that you might develop diabetes unless you change your diet/lifestyle - I assume it's because too much insulin is secreted which causes IR.
Regarding steroids:they do cause hypoglycemic episodes in some people.For example Winstrol often does this.I have heard of people getting hypo even on GH - I assumed this was due to the increased insulin levels it causes.
I want to know more about this....
I personally have had severe hypo episodes on Caffeine (also measure with a glucometer).
Do you agree that insulin resistant people often suffer from hypoglycemic episodes?I have heard doctors say that sugar crashes are a sign that you might develop diabetes unless you change your diet/lifestyle - I assume it's because too much insulin is secreted which causes IR.
Regarding steroids:they do cause hypoglycemic episodes in some people.For example Winstrol often does this.I have heard of people getting hypo even on GH - I assumed this was due to the increased insulin levels it causes.
I want to know more about this....
posthuman said:
As I explained earlier, People with insulin resistance suffer from a disorder that causes adipose and muscle cells to not accept glucose intake properly - when this happens after eating for example, your blood glucose will be elevated from the food intake. Then insulin will be produced by the pancreas to distribute the blood glucose, but it can't be disposed efficiently because muscle/adipose cells are resistant to it.
So basically, you have a bunch of glucose floating around in the bloodstream that insulin cannot get rid of, since the cells aren't efficient at absorbing it. It is not possible to become hypo from being insulin resistant.
No, but you can be hyperglycemic.
But isn't being IR a matter of degree?I mean,there are some obese people who for sure are somewhat insulin resistant who suffer from blood sugar swings and,yes,frequently go hypo,no?If a bodybuilder is somewhat insulin resistant from stimulants,AAS,GH and excess food (not just carbs cause IR but all macronutrients consumed to excess can cause it)- does that mean they cannot go hypo ever?Doesn't make sense to me.poantrex said:
Like I said earlier,Docs warn that going hypo frequently is a sign of developing IR.It's not like you go from being insulin sensitive one day and the,BAM,you are insulin resistant and constantly hyperglycemic.You can maintain normal blood glucose while being insulin resistant since the body increases insulin secretion - that's why,when suspected of IR,you also check insulin levels and not just blood glucose right?Are you sure you cannot be somewhat insulin resistant and not ever go hypo?
Hope I'm making sense,LOL
posthuman said:But isn't being IR a matter of degree?I mean,there are some obese people who for sure are somewhat insulin resistant who suffer from blood sugar swings and,yes,frequently go hypo,no?If a bodybuilder is somewhat insulin resistant from stimulants,AAS,GH and excess food (not just carbs cause IR but all macronutrients consumed to excess can cause it)- does that mean they cannot go hypo ever?Doesn't make sense to me.
Like I said earlier,Docs warn that going hypo frequently is a sign of developing IR.It's not like you go from being insulin sensitive one day and the,BAM,you are insulin resistant and constantly hyperglycemic.You can maintain normal blood glucose while being insulin resistant since the body increases insulin secretion - that's why,when suspected of IR,you also check insulin levels and not just blood glucose right?Are you sure you cannot be somewhat insulin resistant and not ever go hypo?
Hope I'm making sense,LOL
Well, you can go hypo if you starve yourself for a week. Otherwise....no I don't see it happening.
Going hypo is pretty rare anyway, unless you're using pharmaceuticals that can cause it....stimulants don't cause hypoglycemia.
poantrex said:
You're failing to comprehend what insulin resistance is.
When you take caffeine..a CNS stimulant, you increase C-AMP, which in turns mobilizes fatty acids to be burned for fuel.
Since FFA's are being burned for fuel preferrentially due to the caffeine's effects on C-aMP, incoming glucose(From food, or liver glycogen, and muscle glycogen) is not excreted or stored(Muscle cells, fat cells) at a normal rate(Due to the fact FFA's are being oxidized at an accelerated pace due to the caffeine, instead of the glucose in your blood stream), and you get moderate to high blood glucose levels.
HOWEVER, the increase in blood glucose levels peaks, and the drops. And in susceptible individuals this causes hypoglycaemia.
What caffeine does is SPARE muscle/liver glycogen in favor of fat oxidation. Hence why it's called an ergogenic aid.
It's a simple concept really.
I'd like to discuss insulin resistance some more.Like I said insulin resistance is a matter of degree,is it not?It's not like if you are starting to get IR your body is totally unable to take up carbs - especially with the increased insulin secretion.You could be moderately insulin resistant,say,in a pre-competition mode and on /stims/AAS etc. but eat some fast carbs and then go do a heavy workout and then not eat in time afterwards and your BG could really take a dive - even being moderately IR.
Very high carbs diets cause IR in sedentary individuals but they often still experience hypo episodes until their pancreas "bruns out" or the IR gets really severe right?
What is the correct definition of hypoglycemia anyway?Is it when your BG drops too fast and the body is not adjusting fast enough?
Very high carbs diets cause IR in sedentary individuals but they often still experience hypo episodes until their pancreas "bruns out" or the IR gets really severe right?
What is the correct definition of hypoglycemia anyway?Is it when your BG drops too fast and the body is not adjusting fast enough?
