Do estrogen and androgens compete for the same receptors?

[macrophage69alpha]

fawn,

there are significant differences between progestenic birth control and progesterone. if you want to increase progesterone levels there are several topical creams that contain progesterone USP. this is the only effective progesterone- creams that use extracts of wild yam have been shown to be completely inneffective in clinical trials.

peace

 

[fawnmarie]

Macro,

Oh, I know and agree completely!

I only suggest that someone who must use BC pills to consider the "combo pill" which contain progestin to offset the effects of all the estrogen. I do not recommend them just for progesterone supplementation.

Estrogen dominance SUCKS - and can be caused by BC pills: weight gain, acne, cellulite, mood swings. Suck as much as it does, these symptoms are usually preferable to an unwanted pregnancy. If the inclusion of progestin in the BC can help, it's worth looking into.

As for the wild yam creams - you may be right. They may not be as effective - or effective at all. The progesterone creams are wonderful and I use them myself. However, they can be too strong and are easy to overdose. This can cause mid-cycle spotting and an increase in menstrual cramps. Because of this, I generally recommend that any woman (especially under 30) try the wild cream first before upgrading to progesterone cream, unless she's had a hormone assay done and is sure she is progesterone deficient.

fawn

 

[MS]

Wyst, Fawn etc..... Because this board has a strong anabolic 'flavor' and people manipulate their own hormones quite a bit to achieve the body of their dreams, estrogen/progesterone manipulation is naturally one that women consider manipulating too. But this is one area I don't think you should play around with in a hit and miss fashion. A simple blood test can measure your levels of free progesterone and estrogen and if you're deficient you can bring your hormones up to normal levels with the help of your doctor. Now 'normal' is not always optimal for bodybuilding purposes which is why so many women use stuff like tamoxifen when they're trying to get extra lean. And they usually stop taking any hormonal BC. Although progesterone is mildly anabolic and also opposes the action of estrogen, too much progesterone is also not good for you. And listen to macrophage about the wild yam. Don't waste your money on it. If you are peri or post menopausal then make sure you have adequate estrogen, progesterone AND testosterone. Ideally the progesterone is actually progesterone and not some patentable inferior progestin pushed on you by pharmaceutical interests.

 

[cockdezl]

The endogenous steroids, testosterone, estrogen (estradiol, estriol and estrone), and progesterone, have little action on each other's respective receptors. There is, however, indirect action. Testosterone converts to DHT which interferes with estrogen activity (most likely through direct antagonism of the ER). Progesterone has a higher affinity for 5-alpha reductase, thus acting as a competitive inhibitor for testosterone to DHT conversion.

"Progesterone is a master hormone and can/will be converted to estrogen or testosterone as needed."

FAWN, while progesterone is an intermediate in the synthetic pathway for testosterone and estrogen, exogenous progesterone will not increase the levels of these hormones, but lower them. Progesterone is quickly deactivated and also suppresses the HPTA, thereby lowering LH. And MACRO is correct, the wild yam products are garbage...look for the ones with USP progesterone in them.

"Estrogen in particular inhibits fat-loss and can be considered catabolic (in the muscle sense of the word) and works against testosterone for women trying to gain muscle/lose fat."

MS, estrogen, in the presence of testosterone, is an indirect anabolic to muscle. The agricultural studies have shown this overwhelmingly...an androgen/estrogen or estrogen/progestin combination is a stronger anabolic than a single androgen. Estrogen increases insulin, GH and IGF 1 levels. In humans, puberty begins when gonadotrophins increase testosterone and estrogen, which act to elevate GH and IGF levels, thereby increasing linear and muscular growth.

Estrogens, unfortunately, tend to increase adipose tissue in the lower body (but decreases Lipoprotein Lipase activity in the abdominal region...this is why women can have abs, but still have fat lower body). But estrogens are the protective agents for the cardiovacular system...even in men. Higher testosterone levels are correlated with higher estrogen levels through aromatization, and 17-B estradiol is a potent antioxidant.

 

[fawnmarie]

MS,

Believe me - every OB/GYN I've been to for the last 16 years know less about hormone manipulation than you do. Their FIRST answer is to shove BC (estrogen) or HRT at it. And it doesn't matter if its cysts, endometriosis, fibroids, whatever.

I've been repeatedly misdiagnosed and had more estrogen shoved down my throat than a premarin mare - mostly ending up in huge weight gains (i.e - 30 pounds in 6 weeks), hypoglycemia, ovarian cysts and hormonally induced rage. If you think andro-rage is something - try estro-rage. : )

As far as tinkering with female hormone levels they are naturally and necessarily erratic and can be and ARE manipulated (by choice or nature) on a weekly basis without permanent damage. Most doctors do not bother to do any blood work before prescribing hormonal supplements or BC or HRT. And it's been my experience that I spend more time recovering from their "experiments" than my own. Shame we can't write up scripts for our own bloodwork.

Progesterone USP is a wonderful thing, and I use it myself. Like I said, it's just easy to over-do.

Fawn