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Did Barry Bonds juice for this MLB season?

Lestat

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He looks pretty swole this year, what do you guys think? I think he's still clean, not ready to take the plunge yet.
 
Lestat said:
He looks pretty swole this year, what do you guys think? I think he's still clean, not ready to take the plunge yet.



c & c alert...lol ;)
 
do you think he drank winny?
 
they can test for gh now i believe. not sure though. i don't know he said he was taking off 40lbs to help his knees out. maybe he is just bloated. i don't know though when he dressed up as paula abdul he was jacked. maybe on some type of suspension or something. who the fuck knows. he had a winny milkshake last night
 
Lestat said:
He looks pretty swole this year, what do you guys think? I think he's still clean, not ready to take the plunge yet.
Still clean?? Since when? Certainly wasnt clean before he had surgery. Dont know about this season, since I havent seen any baseball.
 
Lestat said:
He looks pretty swole this year, what do you guys think? I think he's still clean, not ready to take the plunge yet.


I dislike BB but I wish they would just let this topic die. The MLB is destroying itself by these continued accusations.
 
he's probably on cell-tech. that shit makes you huge.
 
the MLB is fucked though b/c if they really look into i bet at least 70-80% of people in the majors take somethin. Plus there was no rule that specifically said steroids were illegal in the 90s when all those records were set.
 
i heard he eats nothing but ostrich meat
 
Barry Bonds is one of the best baseball players in the history of the game, juiced or not.
 
true that...juicing won't make you hit a baseball, maybe it will help you hit it farther, but definitely won't just make you good at the sport.
 
Baseball is hand/eye coordination plain and simple. If steroids made you hit a baseball I would have taken them in highschool. :)

I hope this whole investigation blows up in Seligs face, f*cking a**hole..
 
I tried andro back when it came out and it didn't do much. No-explode and creatine pretty much did it for me. Or maybe it was the gear I was taking!

mightymouse69 said:
does andro really get you that big, I have some left over.
 
if pitchers juiced would their throwing arm be massively bigger than their other one?
 
swole said:
do you think he drank winny?

yes

swole said:
i heard he eats nothing but ostrich meat?

This is true, see www.ostrich.com for nutritional content.

swole said:
he's probably on cell-tech. that shit makes you huge.?

Definately cell-tech made a major difference in his physsique.

mightymouse69 said:
Will I get huge on creatine, and does it make your nut's shrink? my girl won't like that.

:D, yes your nutties will shrink but makes you're doodle look bigger.

mightymouse69 said:
are the baseballs juiced this year instead of the players?.

No of course not.

swole said:
if pitchers juiced would their throwing arm be massively bigger than their other one?

Not overly bigger but yes a bit. Just like your left hand is bigger than your right from looking at porn all day long. Same thing ;)
 
Barry Bonds? Isn't he the guy that got caught on the party boat shoving baseball bats up his ass as a magic trick?

I like that guy. His big head is so adorable. And he is so nice to people.
 
I believe he is using GH and probably another new undetectable steroid. The guys at BALCO aren't the only ones to ever think of making undetectables. Bonds and many other elite athletes probably have their choice of a few labs to get what they want.
 
Are you guys kidding me?

the guy is at the end of his career. No one expects him to do much of anything after his surgery on his knee. Why would he risk running more steroids for one last season when he is still being invesitgated? My answer is no. the guy is no moron and would not risk tarnishing his career anymore than he has. He is not using some Government Top Secret Steroid thats undetecable. His knee allows for him to use it as a clutch if he performs poorly this season. Bond will not take anymore because he has no need to.
 
i am what i am said:
Are you guys kidding me?

the guy is at the end of his career. No one expects him to do much of anything after his surgery on his knee. Why would he risk running more steroids for one last season when he is still being invesitgated? My answer is no. the guy is no moron and would not risk tarnishing his career anymore than he has. He is not using some Government Top Secret Steroid thats undetecable. His knee allows for him to use it as a clutch if he performs poorly this season. Bond will not take anymore because he has no need to.
He wants to prove that it wasn't steroid use that made him so great and I don't think that he would pass Aaron before his body goes out completely on him. Thus he thinks he needs more and will continue to use more for a while. The investigation is retarded and won't have any rights to really get at him. The resources are there for him and he must be looking at them like he needs them, so I got to believe that he is. Just my opinion
 
He is a great ball player regardless if he used them or not. Does anyone know how many times bonds has hit over 50 homeruns in a season? Ill tell you, it was once, when he hit the 73! This whole thing is nonsense.. It will be impossible for anyone to pinpoint exactly when and if they were taken. I heard bonds already say, he will not cooperate with an investigation. And the owner of Balco will testify also saying he never supplied bonds with any steroids.. They are fishing for something that they will never catch..
 
omg, i think im gonna puke, im tired of it, juice dosent make u a gifted athlete, no i dont think bonds will risk it again too much heat, how many of these haters in the stands have ever been in a locker room let alone a gym or playing field, not to mention the way his own teams fans are fukin with him, if iam a fan of a team i would back the players and not bash em, says a lot about the fans in san diego
 
monster2929 said:
omg, i think im gonna puke, im tired of it, juice dosent make u a gifted athlete, no i dont think bonds will risk it again too much heat, how many of these haters in the stands have ever been in a locker room let alone a gym or playing field, not to mention the way his own teams fans are fukin with him, if iam a fan of a team i would back the players and not bash em, says a lot about the fans in san diego
He's on the giants and was at petco where they've hated him before the scandal. I don't think it was a san francisco fan that threw it, but if they did than it just seems more obsurd.
 
I dont think he did this year. He looks too "thick" right now... not hard enough.

But thats just an opinion.
 
Some of you are clearly dillusional and brainwashed. I dont know how some of you try and say juice does nothing for these guys because they're so "gifted" :rolleyes:. Please.... their natural talent couldnt make them hit the ball farther, so the gear did. Therefor, the 20 or so balls that didnt make it outta the park before, (or made it close to the warning track) went into the upper deck while they were on juice. But keep lying to yourselves about how it was all their "talent" and "skill" that allowed them to hit over 50hr.
 
monster2929 said:
omg, i think im gonna puke, im tired of it, juice dosent make u a gifted athlete, no i dont think bonds will risk it again too much heat, how many of these haters in the stands have ever been in a locker room let alone a gym or playing field, not to mention the way his own teams fans are fukin with him, if iam a fan of a team i would back the players and not bash em, says a lot about the fans in san diego

:rolleyes: Theres no doubt that roids can turn an average athlete into a great athlete or a great athlete into a superstar.
 
Just got done watching ESPN earlier and it seems some fan through a syringe onto the field next too him in last nights game. He picked it up and gave it to the umpire.. Stuff like that is uncalled for..
 
i heard he takes tribulus that shit makes you huge too
 
It was some funny.....

A fan threw a syringe out on the field during their season opener. Barry was to the rescue and picked it up!!!! He also stashed it in his pocket, must be saving it for the next cycle!!!! He must be juicing!! ;)
 
swole said:
i heard he takes tribulus that shit makes you huge too


I heard he knocked up some chick and drinks her pee so he doesn't have to spend money on HCG. Cheap Bastard.
 
I also heard Bonds bought a bull and when he needs a quick fix of testosterone, he goes out back and sucks the bull off? Anyone else hear about this?
 
Anyone seen that massive syringe a fan threw on the field? Surprised he didn't keep it for his O-ring injection.
 
eat big said:
Anyone seen that massive syringe a fan threw on the field? Surprised he didn't keep it for his O-ring injection.
What ever happened to that old thread. Can someone bump it up again, it was a classic and many probably have never even heard of it. How funny would that be if it were actually Barry who started that thead too?
 
Barry Bonds doesn't use steroids. He has rickets and thats why his head is so big.
 
I heard Barry doesn't even dissolve his fina pellets. He uses that gun to shoot them in his arse.
 
Lestat said:
He looks pretty swole this year, what do you guys think? I think he's still clean, not ready to take the plunge yet.


He's clean. If he wasn't he would have failed the random drug test that MLB does every month...................
 
swole said:
he's probably on cell-tech. that shit makes you huge.
Love it. All the big dogs are using it. Will never hit tha 450lb 6%bf contest type level with out it. Ha thats some bull shit...
 
Outtlaw said:
Some of you are clearly dillusional and brainwashed. I dont know how some of you try and say juice does nothing for these guys because they're so "gifted" :rolleyes:. Please.... their natural talent couldnt make them hit the ball farther, so the gear did. Therefor, the 20 or so balls that didnt make it outta the park before, (or made it close to the warning track) went into the upper deck while they were on juice. But keep lying to yourselves about how it was all their "talent" and "skill" that allowed them to hit over 50hr.

Im not brainwashed, just telling you the facts. Maybe alot of you are brainwashed by whatever the media throws out at you. Only 1 time in bonds career that he hit over 50 homeruns, and thats when he hit the 73. He has always been a gifted athlete. If he wasnt chasing this record, this wouldnt even be an issue.

I bet if the media or someone released a book that gretzkys 92 goal season, he might have used winstrol to help him score all those goals, youd believe that too.
 
ItalianMuscle27 said:
Im not brainwashed, just telling you the facts. Maybe alot of you are brainwashed by whatever the media throws out at you. Only 1 time in bonds career that he hit over 50 homeruns, and thats when he hit the 73. He has always been a gifted athlete. If he wasnt chasing this record, this wouldnt even be an issue.

I bet if the media or someone released a book that gretzkys 92 goal season, he might have used winstrol to help him score all those goals, youd believe that too.


Why do so many people care about whether or not professional athletes are using steroids. I think it is good for the game. People are faster and stronger and hit harder.

You guys make it seem like these guys just made it to the pros and then said I'm going to take steroids. How do we know they didn't start in high school or college to up their ability? The issue is that Bonds always had an amazing hand eye coordination to hit the ball. IMO, the juice has helped his bat speed and his strength to put the ball over the fence. The reason he has only hit over 50 homeruns a few times is because everyone walks him, like 150 walks every year. The issue is also that the juice has helped spare his body the effects of getting older which is allowing him to play longer than Aaron and Ruth, thus giving him the opportunity to hit more homeruns.

I personally don't give a rats ass, but to say that steroids don't effect an athletes ability is a straight out lie.
 
how about way protein? doesn't that make you ripped?
 
i am what i am said:
Why do so many people care about whether or not professional athletes are using steroids. I think it is good for the game. People are faster and stronger and hit harder.

I personally don't give a rats ass, but to say that steroids don't effect an athletes ability is a straight out lie.[/QUOTE]

These guys are role models of kids trying to make it to the big leagues. Though people encourage the effects steroids can have, bigger stronger faster players, they do so with the expectations that these great improvements over those a few decades ago without steroids. It's not possible to improve naturally at the rate of expectation.

They do effect but don't make or break the abilities of an athlete. It's merely improvement not the whole thing.
 
i am what i am said:
I personally don't give a rats ass, but to say that steroids don't effect an athletes ability is a straight out lie.
Exactly!!

mrp3652 said:
They do effect but don't make or break the abilities of an athlete. It's merely improvement not the whole thing.
No one ever said it was the "whole thing." But to try to sell the idea that steroids dont do jack for baseball players (which is what some of you are insinuating) is a flat out lie.

ItalianMuscle27 said:
Im not brainwashed, just telling you the facts. Maybe alot of you are brainwashed by whatever the media throws out at you. Only 1 time in bonds career that he hit over 50 homeruns, and thats when he hit the 73. He has always been a gifted athlete. If he wasnt chasing this record, this wouldnt even be an issue.
BARRY BONDS was pretty much a 30-40 hr hitter his entire career until about 1995-96. And ever since 2000, after 14yrs of being in the majors, he hasnt hit less than 45 hr in a single season. Not to mention the 73 or whatever the number was that he hit. So you tell me whats going on.... Let me guess, his hand eye coordination just miraculously improved with age :rolleyes:.

Believe what you want to believe. Everyone knows Barry Bonds juiced, and everyone knows that it had a positive effect on his hitting.
 
Outtlaw said:
Exactly!!


No one ever said it was the "whole thing." But to try to sell the idea that steroids dont do jack for baseball players (which is what some of you are insinuating) is a flat out lie.


BARRY BONDS was pretty much a 30-40 hr hitter his entire career until about 1995-96. And ever since 2000, after 14yrs of being in the majors, he hasnt hit less than 45 hr in a single season. Not to mention the 73 or whatever the number was that he hit. So you tell me whats going on.... Let me guess, his hand eye coordination just miraculously improved with age :rolleyes:.

Believe what you want to believe. Everyone knows Barry Bonds juiced, and everyone knows that it had a positive effect on his hitting.

So I suppose Alex Rodriguez is juicing too then eh? He consistantly hits 40+ homers a season and even had 2 or 3 50+ seasons.. What about griffey jr? Juicing too? Athletes do get better with age, not all but some do.

Why only go back till the year 2000 for his stats? If you believe the rumors, they say he started juicing starting in 98. MMMmm, strange because he hit 37 in 98, and 34 in 99. What did he get some miracle steroid in the next 5 years of his career to improve his game that much? Give me a break.. :rolleyes:

Everyone knows barry bonds juiced? lmao.. He has denied all rumors, passed all drug tests..There is no proof!
 
ItalianMuscle27 said:
Everyone knows barry bonds juiced? lmao.. He has denied all rumors, passed all drug tests..There is no proof!
Anyone can pass a drug test. Athletes do it all the time. All a drug test proves is that there wasnt an illegal amount of substance present in the persons system at the given time of the test. That leaves a lot of opportunity to be "on." And as far as I know, baseball only started testing its players within the last year or so. That leaves a lot of juicing opportunity for people like Barry Bonds.
 
mrp3652 said:
i am what i am said:
Why do so many people care about whether or not professional athletes are using steroids. I think it is good for the game. People are faster and stronger and hit harder.

I personally don't give a rats ass, but to say that steroids don't effect an athletes ability is a straight out lie.[/QUOTE]

These guys are role models of kids trying to make it to the big leagues. Though people encourage the effects steroids can have, bigger stronger faster players, they do so with the expectations that these great improvements over those a few decades ago without steroids. It's not possible to improve naturally at the rate of expectation.

They do effect but don't make or break the abilities of an athlete. It's merely improvement not the whole thing.




Now ask yourself, am I going to be a daddy one day? Aren't you going to be a role model, whether its to your kids or to your neighbors kids? Do you have a younger brother or sister that looks up to you? Why is it alright for the average joe to do steroids but not an athlete? Don't you think you play a more significant role in your families life than some athlete?

True, most professionals already have unreal talents, and yes, it usually won't make or break an athlete, but it can make you go from mediokore to all star. Everybody wants to root for the guy smashing the ball out of the park, not the guy that gets consistent singles.
 
i am what i am said:
Now ask yourself, am I going to be a daddy one day? Aren't you going to be a role model, whether its to your kids or to your neighbors kids? Do you have a younger brother or sister that looks up to you? Why is it alright for the average joe to do steroids but not an athlete? Don't you think you play a more significant role in your families life than some athlete?

True, most professionals already have unreal talents, and yes, it usually won't make or break an athlete, but it can make you go from mediokore to all star. Everybody wants to root for the guy smashing the ball out of the park, not the guy that gets consistent singles.

An average joe isn't as fluencial to the aspiring athlete as the pro athlete. My kid would get influenced more by me because I would be there, but this is America and that isn't the case most everywhere. If everyone was able to regulate their children there wouldn't be as much of an issue.
 
anyone catch him on bonds on bonds.. people take shit too far.. sending him late letters that they are gonna kill him.. beyond pathetic..
 
I just heard Reggie Bush ran a 4.33, 40 yard dash and benched 225 24x. Must be winstrol and suspension and some nolvadex. No possible way he can be that gifted without using steroids..
 
ItalianMuscle27 said:
I just heard Reggie Bush ran a 4.33, 40 yard dash and benched 225 24x. Must be winstrol and suspension and some nolvadex. No possible way he can be that gifted without using steroids..
Are you joking or not? This seems very possible for the dedicated and gifted athlete.
 
mrp3652 said:
Are you joking or not? This seems very possible for the dedicated and gifted athlete.


Im serious about the stats, just kidding about the juice. Im just trying to make a point to everyone to realize what nonsense all this juice talk is with barry bonds.
 
ItalianMuscle27 said:
Im serious about the stats, just kidding about the juice. Im just trying to make a point to everyone to realize what nonsense all this juice talk is with barry bonds.
Ok, though those #s could have been 1 second less and twenty more reps if he juiced. :p
 
ItalianMuscle27 said:
Im serious about the stats, just kidding about the juice. Im just trying to make a point to everyone to realize what nonsense all this juice talk is with barry bonds.
No one ever questioned Bonds' talent. He was an allstar ever since he was with the Pirates years ago. But people arent stupid. Anyone with half a brain could tell Bonds was on something. Now if it makes you feel better to believe that Bonds has always been a "natural" athlete, and all these acusations are just negative "media hype"... then go right ahead. You're only lying to yourself. The rest of us know the reality.
 
Outtlaw said:
No one ever questioned Bonds' talent. He was an allstar ever since he was with the Pirates years ago. But people arent stupid. Anyone with half a brain could tell Bonds was on something. Now if it makes you feel better to believe that Bonds has always been a "natural" athlete, and all these acusations are just negative "media hype"... then go right ahead. You're only lying to yourself. The rest of us know the reality.

If bonds wasnt chasing the homerun record, or put up 73 homeruns in a season, you and everyone else wouldnt even give it a second thought if he was using steroids, it wouldnt be an issue. Could bonds have used? Sure anything is possible, but until there is proof, why assume or accuse the man of anything.

Now Canseco looks like he is on something. Looking at R. Palimero, did he look like he was on them too? Not to my eyes, but he tested positive for stanozolol. In all reality, you cant just look at someone and say he is using. I got accused of using steroids for years, but wasnt on anything.. Just eating and supplements, thats it.. All the stuff I am on now, I still couldnt hit a ball or homerun..
 
ItalianMuscle27 said:
If bonds wasnt chasing the homerun record, or put up 73 homeruns in a season, you and everyone else wouldnt even give it a second thought if he was using steroids, it wouldnt be an issue. Could bonds have used? Sure anything is possible, but until there is proof, why assume or accuse the man of anything.

Now Canseco looks like he is on something. Looking at R. Palimero, did he look like he was on them too? Not to my eyes, but he tested positive for stanozolol. In all reality, you cant just look at someone and say he is using. I got accused of using steroids for years, but wasnt on anything.. Just eating and supplements, thats it.. All the stuff I am on now, I still couldnt hit a ball or homerun..


To Outlaws defense, are you kidding? Do you know how the Barry Bonds Scandal came about? No one was investigating him because of the homerun record. It all started with a track coach who gave the feds a sample to be able to identify the substances that Balco Labs was producing. The government then went to Balco and got the names of the athletes that were using. Low and behold, Barry Bonds was on that list. No one checked MarkMcGwire or Sammy Sosa for steroids when they were going for the homerun record, and they didn't check Barry.

So to say that no one would be investigating Barry if he wasn't chasing the homerun record is false. If Balco Labs didn't go down, no one would even consider him using steroids.

And how could you sit there and say that Bonds didn't use steroids? The guy admitted to a grand jury that he applied the cream and took the liquid unknowingly. Right there it tells you that he is taking steroids, whether intentional or not. Plus, tell me why he isn't suing those two guys that published the books about him using steroids for slander if it wasn't true? The proof is there, open your eyes.

Of course you can't hit a homerun. You never had the natural talent that these professional athletes had. Now give a professional athlete steroids, and he becomes an all star.
 
i am what i am said:
To Outlaws defense, are you kidding? Do you know how the Barry Bonds Scandal came about? No one was investigating him because of the homerun record. It all started with a track coach who gave the feds a sample to be able to identify the substances that Balco Labs was producing. The government then went to Balco and got the names of the athletes that were using. Low and behold, Barry Bonds was on that list. No one checked MarkMcGwire or Sammy Sosa for steroids when they were going for the homerun record, and they didn't check Barry.

So to say that no one would be investigating Barry if he wasn't chasing the homerun record is false. If Balco Labs didn't go down, no one would even consider him using steroids.

And how could you sit there and say that Bonds didn't use steroids? The guy admitted to a grand jury that he applied the cream and took the liquid unknowingly. Right there it tells you that he is taking steroids, whether intentional or not. Plus, tell me why he isn't suing those two guys that published the books about him using steroids for slander if it wasn't true? The proof is there, open your eyes.

Of course you can't hit a homerun. You never had the natural talent that these professional athletes had. Now give a professional athlete steroids, and he becomes an all star.

And the owner of balco who just got released from prison, already said, he did not give bonds any steroids, and we will testify to that..

Give an pro athlete steroids and he becomes an all star? lmao.. Bonds was an all star before all these allegations. I think there are 12 current players who tested postive for steroids, and they were not all stars. So to say steroids makes an athlete an all star is far fetched. They havent made me an all star, and not you either..
 
ItalianMuscle27 said:
And the owner of balco who just got released from prison, already said, he did not give bonds any steroids, and we will testify to that..

Give an pro athlete steroids and he becomes an all star? lmao.. Bonds was an all star before all these allegations. I think there are 12 current players who tested postive for steroids, and they were not all stars. So to say steroids makes an athlete an all star is far fetched. They havent made me an all star, and not you either..


Right. He gave the stuff to the trainer, so technically, he didn't get it directly from Balco. Mark McGwire, Sammy Sosa, Barry Bonds, Curt Schilling, Rafeal Palmero, Jason Giambi. All these men were implicated, are they not all star material?
 
ItalianMuscle27 said:
If bonds wasnt chasing the homerun record, or put up 73 homeruns in a season, you and everyone else wouldnt even give it a second thought if he was using steroids, it wouldnt be an issue. Could bonds have used? Sure anything is possible, but until there is proof, why assume or accuse the man of anything.
Your right, it’s not an issue because it was never outside the rules of baseball to use gear. But Bonds DID use steroids. And I think he knowingly used them, despite whatever genius cover story he comes up with to try and save his own ass. If I was in his position I might be doing the same thing. He has a lot to lose by telling the truth… you see what happened to Palmero.


ItalianMuscle27 said:
Give an pro athlete steroids and he becomes an all star? lmao.. Bonds was an all star before all these allegations. I think there are 12 current players who tested postive for steroids, and they were not all stars. So to say steroids makes an athlete an all star is far fetched. They havent made me an all star, and not you either..
They can make you bigger and/or stronger. Both of which can have huge positive impacts on professional athletes. You should know this.
 
i am what i am said:
Right. He gave the stuff to the trainer, so technically, he didn't get it directly from Balco. Mark McGwire, Sammy Sosa, Barry Bonds, Curt Schilling, Rafeal Palmero, Jason Giambi. All these men were implicated, are they not all star material?

Not those all stars, there are I think 12 current players who just recently over the last few months tested positive, and to my knowledge they were just normal guys, not the superstars. I am looking for the report online, when I find it, Ill post the players names..
 
Outtlaw said:
Your right, it’s not an issue because it was never outside the rules of baseball to use gear. But Bonds DID use steroids. And I think he knowingly used them, despite whatever genius cover story he comes up with to try and save his own ass. If I was in his position I might be doing the same thing. He has a lot to lose by telling the truth… you see what happened to Palmero.



They can make you bigger and/or stronger. Both of which can have huge positive impacts on professional athletes. You should know this.


Im not denying they can make you bigger and stronger, but to say steroids are what made him hit homeruns is ridiculous. You have to be able to make contact with the baseball first before you can even do this.. Steroids dont improve your hand/eye coordination, at least to my knowledge they dont..
 
ItalianMuscle27 said:
Im not denying they can make you bigger and stronger, but to say steroids are what made him hit homeruns is ridiculous. You have to be able to make contact with the baseball first before you can even do this.. Steroids dont improve your hand/eye coordination, at least to my knowledge they dont..
I never said they made him hit homeruns. I said that by making the player bigger and stronger, it allows him to hit the ball farther. Therefore, the balls he couldnt drive outta the park before now fly into the upper deck.

Naturally, if you didnt have the hand/eye coordination to hit the ball to begin with, all the steroids would do for you is just make you strike out with that much more force. You might bring a whole new name to going down swinging, lol ;) . But if you ever got lucky and connected with the ball.... see Ya!!
 
Outtlaw said:
Some of you are clearly dillusional and brainwashed. I dont know how some of you try and say juice does nothing for these guys because they're so "gifted" :rolleyes:. Please.... their natural talent couldnt make them hit the ball farther, so the gear did. Therefor, the 20 or so balls that didnt make it outta the park before, (or made it close to the warning track) went into the upper deck while they were on juice. But keep lying to yourselves about how it was all their "talent" and "skill" that allowed them to hit over 50hr.



That is right on target this fuckers hit the ball harder cause they are on some
shit. end of story :evil:
 
i am what i am said:
I heard Barry doesn't even dissolve his fina pellets. He uses that gun to shoot them in his arse.


lmmfao :FRlol: and dont forget all the cell tech products like nortesten i once took it and gained 15 lbs
 
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