Deca vs. oxandrolone vs.Test-E on bodyfat composition...

[wilson6]

MEDLINE Identifier Number 93232136 (PubMed Unique ID: 8473383)

Author
Deyssig R; Weissel M

Institution Third Medical University Clinic, Vienna, Austria.

Title
Ingestion of androgenic-anabolic steroids induces mild thyroidal impairment in male body builders.

Appears In
JOURNAL OF CLINICAL ENDOCRINOLOGY AND METABOLISM. vol. 76, no. 4 (1993 Apr): 1069-71.

Journal Info Abbreviation: J Clin Endocrinol Metab. Journal Subset: AIM. IM.. Country of Publication: UNITED STATES.

Abstract
Self-administration of very high doses of androgenic anabolic steroids is common use in power athletes because of their favorable effect on performance. Since androgenic steroids decrease serum T4-binding globulin (TBG) concentrations dramatically, we were interested in the effects of this procedure on thyroid function: we performed TRH tests (200 micrograms Relefact, i.v.), with blood withdrawal before and for 180 min after injection, for determination, using RIA kits, of serum concentrations of total and free T4, total T3, TSH, and TBG in 13 young (20-29 yr old) male body builders with clinically normal thyroid glands, who were all in the same state of training. Five of these athletes admitted taking androgenic anabolic steroids at an average total dose of 1.2 g/week for at least 6 weeks before the tests. TBG, total T4, and total T3 were significantly (P < 0.001) decreased, whereas basal TSH and free T4 were not significantly different from the values of the other 8 without androgenic steroids. The maximum TSH increase after TRH administration (mean +/- SE, 16 -/+ 6 vs. 9 -/+ 4 mU/L; P < 0.05) was relatively increased, whereas the T3 response to TRH (0.61 -/+ 0.10 vs. 1.13 -/+ 0.13 nmol/L; P < 0.05) was relatively decreased in the group receiving androgens. The 5 patients taking androgens had significantly greater weight (114 vs. 90 kg; P < 0.01) and higher total cholesterol levels (6.3 -/+ 1.3 vs. 3.8 -/+ 0.3 mmol/L; P < 0.05) together with very low high density lipoprotein cholesterol levels (0.20 -/+ 0.03 vs. 1.03 -/+ 0.10; P < 0.001) than the controls. PRL levels were normal and similar in both groups. We conclude from our results that high dose androgenic anabolic steroid administration leads to a relative impairment (within the normal range) of thyroid function. Whether this is due to a direct thyroid hormone release (or synthesis?)-blocking effect of these steroids needs further investigation.

W6

 

[wilson6]

Can't remember the dose of T3 they used, but it was enough to induce a hyperthyroid state.

MEDLINE Identifier Number 97216222 (PubMed Unique ID: 9062479)

Author
Lovejoy JC; Smith SR; Bray GA; DeLany JP; Rood JC; Gouvier D; Windhauser M; Ryan DH; Macchiavelli R; Tulley R

Institution Pennington Biomedical Research Center, Louisiana State University, Baton Rouge 70808, USA. [email protected]
Title

A paradigm of experimentally induced mild hyperthyroidism: effects on nitrogen balance, body composition, and energy expenditure in healthy young men.

Appears In
JOURNAL OF CLINICAL ENDOCRINOLOGY AND METABOLISM. vol. 82, no. 3 (1997 Mar): 765-70.
Journal Info Abbreviation: J Clin Endocrinol Metab. Journal Subset: AIM. IM.. Country of Publication: UNITED STATES.

Abstract
Although T3 exerts major regulatory actions in both animals and humans, most clinical studies of T3 administration have been relatively short term. The present study examined the effects of more than 2 months (63 days) of low dose T3 treatment on nitrogen balance, body composition, 24-h energy expenditure (EE), and protein turnover in seven healthy men studied at an in-patient metabolic unit. Subjects were also randomly assigned to either high or low fat diets to determine the effects of diet composition. T3 treatment produced significant losses in both lean mass (1.5 +/- 0.3 kg) and fat mass (2.7 +/- 0.4 kg) by 6 weeks, with similar reductions in both at 9 weeks. The high fat diet somewhat attenuated the loss of body fat. Nitrogen balance was significantly negative for the first 3 weeks of T3 treatment, but tended to return to baseline thereafter. There were no significant effects of treatment on protein turnover at 9 weeks, although there was a slight increase in leucine oxidation (P = 0.07). Despite the apparent adaptation in nitrogen balance, total 24-h EE and sleeping EE were significantly increased at 9 weeks. We conclude that although healthy men are able to adapt to mild hyperthyroidism in terms of nitrogen balance, they exhibit significant and persistent changes in fat and fat-free mass as well as energy balance.

W6

 

[wilson6]

MEDLINE Identifier Number 78254508 (PubMed Unique ID: 686169)

Author
Flaim KE; Li JB; Jefferson LS

Title
Effects of thyroxine on protein turnover in rat skeletal muscle.

Appears In
AMERICAN JOURNAL OF PHYSIOLOGY. vol. 235, no. 2 (1978 Aug): E231-6.

Journal Info Abbreviation: Am J Physiol. Journal Subset: IM.. Country of Publication: UNITED STATES.

Abstract
The effects of thyroxine (T4) on protein turnover in skeletal muscle were studied using normal, thyroidectomized (thyrex), and hypophysectomized (hypox) rats. Thyrex rats had a depressed growth rate that was accompanied by 50% reductions in the level of RNA and the rate of protein synthesis in gastrocnemius muscle, as determined in the perfused hemicorpus. Protein synthetic efficiency (protein synthesis per unit RNA) was decreased by 18%. Daily treatment of thyrex rats with T4 at different dose levels for up to 16 days led to improved growth rates, elevated RNA concentrations, and increased protein synthesis rates. The primary effect of T4 was to increase the protein synthetic capacity of muscle. Protein degradation, determined in the perfused hemicorpus, and activity of a lysosomal protease, determined in unperfused muscle, were reduced in the thyrex condition. Treatment of thyrex rats with T4 increased protein degradative rates, but not protease activity. Hypox rats, which also exhibited depressed skeletal muscle protein synthesis, responded to T4 and combined T4 and growth hormone with marked improvements in protein synthesis.

 

[wilson6]

MEDLINE Identifier Number 85007381 (PubMed Unique ID: 6207197)

Author
Hasselgren PO; Adlerberth A; Angeras U; Stenstrom G

Title
Protein metabolism in skeletal muscle tissue from hyperthyroid patients after preoperative treatment with antithyroid drug or selective beta-blocking agent. Results from a prospective, randomized study.

Appears In
JOURNAL OF CLINICAL ENDOCRINOLOGY AND METABOLISM. vol. 59, no. 5 (1984 Nov): 835-9.

Journal Info Abbreviation: J Clin Endocrinol Metab. Journal Subset: AIM. IM.. Country of Publication: UNITED STATES.

Abstract
Protein metabolism in skeletal muscle tissue was studied in three groups of patients undergoing thyroid surgery: group I (n = 8), hyperthyroid patients preoperatively treated with an antithyroid drug and T4; group II (n = 8), hyperthyroid patients preoperatively treated with the beta 1-selective adrenoreceptor blocking agent metoprolol; group III (n = 5), euthyroid patients operated on for nodular goiter or adenoma. The study was prospective and hyperthyroid patients were randomly allocated to one of the two preoperative regimens. During operation a biopsy was taken from the sternohyoid muscle and rates of protein synthesis and degradation were measured in incubated muscle tissue. Clinical improvement was equal in the two groups of hyperthyroid patients during preoperative treatment but serum T3 concentrations remained elevated in patients treated with metoprolol. Thus, these patients were biochemically hyperthyroid at the time of operation. The rate of protein degradation was significantly higher in hyperthyroid patients treated with metoprolol than in patients of groups I and III. A significant positive correlation was found between serum T3 and rate of protein degradation in skeletal muscle. Protein synthesis rates were similar in the three groups of patients. This study demonstrated for the first time increased proteolysis in skeletal muscle tissue from patients with high serum T3 concentrations. The results indicate that changes of skeletal muscle protein metabolism in hyperthyroid patients are not normalized by beta 1-blockade despite the fact that this treatment effectively controlled symptoms and signs of hyperthyroidism.

W6

 

[wilson6]

Bottom line

Low thyroid status impairs metabolism, cognitive function, somatic growth and skeletal muscle protein synthesis. That is why it is so important to taper off thyroid slowly.

Elevated thyroid levels (above normal limits) do not enhance protein synthesis but increase proteolysis (protein breakdown). However this effect appears to be temporary when a mild hyperthyroid state is induced by taking T3. In contrast, the effects of increased metabolic rate persist.

W6

 

[Gambler]

Would this study suggest that it would be beneficial tp add t-3 to an anavar cycle?

 

[wilson6]

I think there is more to the anavar T3/T4 issue than meets the eye.

Just because there is a change in T4 and T3 uptake (most oral androgens will cause a decrease in T4 and increase in T3 uptake; just the opposite of the oral estrogens) doesn't mean that there will be a change in metabolism. In fact, FTI = T4 x T3 uptake, so as long as the sum of the two doesn't change, that usually indicates no overall change.

Most people (male or female) that I've talked to over the years that have used anavar have had no problem getting razor lean with diet alone (no T3) + anavar so I question whether this actually represents a mild hypothyroid state. There are many other factors (receptor density, etc.) that may be involved as well. So, mild impairment in lab values may have little physiological effect.

I have to find that Int J Obesity paper in my files. The abstract states that both T4 and T3 uptake decrease, that shouldn't be.

W6

 

[Hugh Gellatts]

"I've talked to over the years that have used anavar have had no problem getting razor lean with diet alone (no T3) + anavar so I question whether this actually represents a mild hypothyroid state."


interesting...i actually get a "positive-rebound" whenever I stop T-3. For about two weeks I lose bodyfat at an accelerated pace, one that is faster than when I am on the T-3. It really is a very dramatic change.

 

[Andy13]

Re: Bottom line

Low thyroid status impairs metabolism, cognitive function, somatic growth and skeletal muscle protein synthesis. That is why it is so important to taper off thyroid slowly.

Elevated thyroid levels (above normal limits) do not enhance protein synthesis but increase proteolysis (protein breakdown). However this effect appears to be temporary when a mild hyperthyroid state is induced by taking T3. In contrast, the effects of increased metabolic rate persist.

W6

Where has this guy been? I like this guy!

Yup.. Every study I have EVER read indicates that t3 increases protein synthesis... BUT NOT AS MUCH AS IT DOES PROTEIN DEGREDATION.

The myth, "taking t3 while on a cycle to increase protein synthesis" has to be one of my all-time most hated myths.. And it won't go away.

Now where did Fonz go?

Andy

 

[wilson6]

I do have a clue about alot of this stuff, but post mostly on the women's board.

W6