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Well....rats think so.
Chronic nandrolone administration induces dysfunction of the reward pathway in rats
Chronic nandrolone administration induces dysfunction of the reward pathway in rats
Deca Sucks
- Thread starter Nelson Montana
- Start date
its controversial but I will say it.. if you cycle steroids don't mess with deca, pick NPP instead if you want to go the nandrolone route, or hell go with tren instead.
'deca' takes a while to recover from. its a long and stubborn ester. a lot of the old timers I talk to love 'deca' and took a lot of it back in the 90's but then again they are all on HRT for life in their 50's today.. connection? or coincidence?
a lot of newbs want to mess with deca because it has a reputation online for being a great bulker, this is a mistake. but also the name "DECA" sounds like you are punching someone out, so its a catchy term I guess.
'deca' takes a while to recover from. its a long and stubborn ester. a lot of the old timers I talk to love 'deca' and took a lot of it back in the 90's but then again they are all on HRT for life in their 50's today.. connection? or coincidence?
a lot of newbs want to mess with deca because it has a reputation online for being a great bulker, this is a mistake. but also the name "DECA" sounds like you are punching someone out, so its a catchy term I guess.
Deca is the one AAS that I really hated. That "bulk" is just bloat. And of course, it's a dick killer. Horrible stuff IMO. There are so many better choices.
C0LUMB0
Moderator
Nelson ,Steve is calling you an old fart....dont take that shit from this young punk !
Seriously tho, i have to agree that deca has never ceased to disappoint me.
i have ran it plenty of times and at doses upto 800mg, i have never used npp because i EOD injects very appealing...i might give it a dance in the near future.
beastreality
New member
I wouldn't touch the stuff, my dick is too important to be impotent.
Deca wasn't all that popular with the old timers. It was used because there wasn't much else! And it was thought to be a better alternative, since it wasn't androgen based they though it caused less suppression and no aromatization. Man, were they ever wrong!
Most of the guys I've spoke to from that time used dbol. People think they used test but that too was very rare. Dave Draper used just Winny. Sergio Oliva didn't like winny because it made him TOO vascular. lol.
Most of the guys I've spoke to from that time used dbol. People think they used test but that too was very rare. Dave Draper used just Winny. Sergio Oliva didn't like winny because it made him TOO vascular. lol.
thedarkhalf
New member
Good to know. I've never really planned on using deca, but had planned on using NPP
Would it be safe to say that one should be regularly using 5-HTP when using Deca/NPP to help combat the serotonin loss? Anything else that could be added to help prevent what they were speaking about in the study?
Would it be safe to say that one should be regularly using 5-HTP when using Deca/NPP to help combat the serotonin loss? Anything else that could be added to help prevent what they were speaking about in the study?
I have no idea.. maybe because it would no longer be called 'deca' so it wouldn't sell?
really the decaonate ester and the E ester are not that far apart anyway.
bonacris
Banned
Try telling someone your test blend contains test decanoate and they give you weird look and tell you that you mean deca and test blend.. I just drop the subject then
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exactly that's why I don't talk steroids with anyone outside of the boards. I can't stand ignorance
So true Steve. I'm 50 and started body building in the early 80's. I trained with Andy Lodi, one of the original owners of American muscle clothing line and then they had a short lived TV show on ESPN. My first cycle was the most popular cycle at the time, Deca and Dbol. Weight went from 180 to 207. Strength thru the roof. But also a ton of bloat and moon face.
IMO, we all used it back then because that combination just flat out worked for strength and weight gain. I was also fortunate to never have side effects. PCT back then was HCG and novaldex.
I started TRT last year by choice. I was clean from my 30's and 40's and had 2 daughters in that span. I wouldn't advocate what I did then now. But I can honestly say I had fun and there were no issues.
IMO, we all used it back then because that combination just flat out worked for strength and weight gain. I was also fortunate to never have side effects. PCT back then was HCG and novaldex.
I started TRT last year by choice. I was clean from my 30's and 40's and had 2 daughters in that span. I wouldn't advocate what I did then now. But I can honestly say I had fun and there were no issues.
Reps For Jesus
Banned
I love Deca, never had a problem with it.
C0LUMB0
Moderator
lol , thats exactly what 99% of the retards in my gym would say.
The same type of prick will tell you he takes "dballs"
are you on HRT today?
Reps For Jesus
Banned
the problem is it takes 3-6 months to recover from deca so if you aren't on HRT I don't see the point of using it and taking that much time between cycles.
and don't tell me you recovered either, we both know you didn't fully recover but you just jumped back on the juice prematurely. if you ran a SERM for pct your numbers were manipulated because of the SERM, had you come off your body would of been still suppressed.
guys PM me all the time who ran 20 week cycles and 4 week pct's and then stop their pct and 3 weeks later their bloodwork their T levels are 80 and they wonder what happened.
I tell them they need to run a much longer pct and come off for much longer than 4 weeks and they get pissed
then they jump back on the roids.. then a couple years later they quit the game and then come back to me and cry how they have no libido and their muscle is gone. if you are going to go on for 20 weeks, come off for 4.. you might as well just stay on cause you never came off to begin with!
Reps For Jesus
Banned
I actually do about 1 cycle in a 52 week time span, if that. And my last bloods showed test levels in the 900's months after I discontinued use of any type of serm. So sounds like pretty solid recovery to me.
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yeah that would make sense.
it would be hard though to squeeze in lets say 3 good cycles a year with deca is my point.
Reps For Jesus
Banned
It's not the ester that is the problem, it is nandrolone itself. Whether it is Deca or npp.. It lingers in the system
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Reps For Jesus
Banned
If it was based on the ester, then something like EQ would the hardest thing to recover from
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I had a deca log on here years ago that was so constroversial that it was deleted lol.. I did bloodwork from start to finish.
my T levels sat in the double digits for 3 months then finally started moving up slowly. lets remember even a small amount of lingering ester in the body (it doesn't have to be enough to do anything for you) is gonna suppress
once things started going though they jumped nicely.. so its all about patience trying to recover.
you can't run a 4 week pct after deca and expect yourself to recover from that.. I recommend a 10 week pct and I recommend 3-6 months off
oh and in the log I made gains during my pct.. want to know why? because I was STILL ON!!! I was stacking sustanon with the deca and both have long esters. so a lot of people would be fooled in that situation thinking they were recovered when they really weren't. happens all the time.
Deca has a half-life of 11 days which is pretty hefty. Compare that with test cypionate which has a half-life of 4.5 days.
Plus it's a progestin, which seems to slam the HPTA (Tren does too).
my theory is deca throws off your hormones like no other and keeps it thrown off. and confuses the shit out of your body, add to that like what everyone has said its got a strong half life and its a recipe for a long recovery.
guys who fail to run an AI on deca are going to have major problems most likely.. one extreme Is you will need to be fitted for a new bra and your estrogen will be in the triple digits. while others get away with doing everything wrong and are fine. its so fair
guys who fail to run an AI on deca are going to have major problems most likely.. one extreme Is you will need to be fitted for a new bra and your estrogen will be in the triple digits. while others get away with doing everything wrong and are fine. its so fair
Deca is a horrible choice for those on TRT. It's essentially an ANTI-androgen!
wow wasn't aware of that at all... I guess if you have hypersexuality it would be perfect then lol.
but I think he is saying to cycle with it and not use it for actual TRT, this way you could come off without having to worry about revcovery.
But it would interfere with the TRT treatment. So again, horrible choice. Some Primo and extra test would make a nice cycle within HRT treatment without too much disruption.
Deca was designed to not have androgenic properties, going with the belief that they were the one's that caused the negative side effects. Primo succeeded with that premise by making a drug that was far more anabolic than testosterone but with less androgenic capabilites. Deca attempted it by negating the androgenic properties which, as we all know, causes all the anti androgenic side effects -- los of libido, weaker erectile function, bloat, gyno, etc. It is still used to treat osteoporosis -- probably because of the estrogenic and progestrogenic effects.
you are one smart cookie .. good post
Test Cypionate has a half-life of 8 days.
Test Enanthate has a half-life of 4.5 days.
I had one reference that showed test enanthate and test cyp both had half-live's of 4.5 days:
Medibolics
But I find more references for your 8-day figure; including the drugs.com profile. So we'll go with yours.
Shall I pull the product literature insert from any of the 4 different brands of test cyp I have on hand (Watson, Pfizer, Paddock, Sandoz) and snap a pic?
MaxxReps
New member
Regardless of halflives, the largest component of sust is a decanoate and I've never heard it shuts you down for up to 6 months so the ester must only be a (smaller) part of the equation.
Is it the fact that it is a 19nor? Is tren as suppressive for as long, or is just a nandralone thing?
I was thinking of a shorter cycle with NPP but am now starting to wonder.. I am only really interested in putting on maximum lean mass wet/dry doesn't matter.
Is it the fact that it is a 19nor? Is tren as suppressive for as long, or is just a nandralone thing?
I was thinking of a shorter cycle with NPP but am now starting to wonder.. I am only really interested in putting on maximum lean mass wet/dry doesn't matter.
True, but just going on test would not necessarily negate the prog sides -- which tend to last and disrupt the overall hormonal balance that HRT is essentially correcting.
bonacris
Banned
This is really just me thinking out loud but for example say the guy was on trt at 200mg a week then does a blast of 500mg rest with 500mg deca and takes his AI and caber/ prami would deca be more suited to him because after the blast is over he would be straight away back on 200mg a week
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Reps For Jesus
Banned
So all these people copy and pasting what other people say.. telling people run Test lower than Deca would be.. WRONG. Thinking that caber or prami would help with all the libido issues.
sundevil04
New member
Does the same go for NPP as far as the long recovery time?
Reps For Jesus
Banned
Yes
The recovery has nothing to do with the ester length. It has to do with the compound. Nandralone, whether it is Deca, or NPP.. lingers in your system for a long time. Deca is in your system for up to 18 months, and NPP is for up to 12 months. The next longest is 5 months, which is D-Bol, which is an oral.
bonacris
Banned
I only speak from my own experience. I keep test low with tren and a little bit lower than deca. Never had libido issues
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Use letro and prami to blast it
EQ is long too.
Fuck Deca. I think Deca is the only thing that messed with my body... I wasn't depressed but I felt lethargic more than any other compound.
I am wondering the same thing. Also, I've read that NPP's suppression is identical to deca.
Reps For Jesus
Banned
EQ is about 5 months. I go back to the fact that if it was about ester length and not compound, then EQ would be longer than DECA.
Nandrolone shuts you down hard and fast, then it lingers in your system for a long time.. so from the beginning to the end, it is not ideal for recovery. But it can be done.
I just see zero point to deca... Other than joint lubrication.
C0LUMB0
Moderator
northernknight
New member
^^^ Yeah, me too.
Some just respond to 19nors a lot better than others. On the other hand I cannot stand EQ, and yet some love it.
So, essentially IMO everyone should just experiment enough to find out what works best for them. That's the approach I took when I started to use PEDs. IE. At first I ran very short cycles, or just used a single vial/amp of new compounds to try them out and see how I respond. So now I can now base almost everything that I run to some past experience with the compound, or at least some very similar compound. Works great for me.
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I responded better to tren than deca. But you are100% right; different strokes for different folks. EQ gibes me better all around results than anything. I get endurance, strength, size, cuts and well-being.
It's never just about ester length regardless. Half-life is determined by the ratio of oil solubility to water solubility and ester length (oil solubility) is only half the equation.
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Whats up. I'm new to the site but I've been lifting for a while and not really getting the results that I desire. I could really use a few pointers on how to start my first cycle. I recently purchased Anadrol 50 and test. My stats are 28 y/o 6'2 180 pounds 12%bf. Any tips will help hope you don't mind my messaging you.
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jackedoff123
New member
^^^ Same here. Ive tried just about ever aas under the sun and still, as many cycles as ive ran, the most tried and true cycle for mass (for me) is the simple test/deca combo. My body has always responded well to 19nors. I do very well with test/tren, i get huge and defined as hard as hell with lots of vascularity.
On deca/test, i seem to make the most gains in mass, and they are relatively lean (with aromasin of course). I like to run my deca at 500mg/wk and test at 750/wk.
on a side note, the ONLY compound i absolutely can not run is EQ. It gives me insane bp, hematocrit goes through the roof, head aches like a mofo, very lethargic, and worst of all, its the only compound that gives me horrible anxiety. Ive never experienced that with any other compound. all that on even low doses of eq. of course with moderate doses of test always being ran along side it. ive given eq 4 tries in my day, wondering each time if maybe other factors were envolved in the side, but no matter what way i ran it i always get the same sides.
deca for me, always delivers great gains, recovery seems to go fine and the effects on my joints are always a plus. strength is positivly effected and my over all well being is always good while running it. So i guess everyone just reacts differently. im a lucky one i guess.
just a lil heads up for people that want to give it another go..... I find that running prov at just 25mg a day while you run your deca always made the cycle much more rich and satisfying. Gains were more lean and hard and made libido that much better. I tend to run at least 25mg of prov on every cycle tho only because its a great compound and vastly under rated.
anyways, hope that could help some of you out. i recommend giving a moderate dose test/deca and a lil prov and aromasin a shot. i really dont see how anyone can hate deca, but like a lot of you have said, it varies from person to person.
