Deca on a first cycle

[macnificent]

Before you flame me, I'm not even considering running gear for at least another year when I turn 30. I've been lifting since 14 and training hard and smart for the last 7 year's. I'm also an ACSM certified personal trainer, I'm already pretty strong and jacked (bench 355, squat 465, dead 515); I'm trying to go to the next level now. I'm 5'11" 205 lbs and about 12% bodyfat. I'm also a type 1 diabetic (well controlled for the last 4 years)

I've been researching AAS profiles, cycles and PCTs for quite some time and the overwhelming opinion is test only cycles are appropriate for first cycles. Then I read Anabolics 2012 and the author who seems very knowledgeable actually recommended a beginner cycle of deca durabolin and dianabol (no test at all!) I was flabbergasted as deca to my understanding completely shuts test production down and leads to limp dick, lethargy and submaximal strength in the absence of test. I've also seen other sites and forums suggest kick starting a cycle w dianabol. But from what I've read, test and dianabol together is one of the most side effect heavy cycles you could run.
Some one square me away please. I'm thinking when I start I'd like to keep test e dosages low say about 300/week and stack w deca @ 300/week,in the late fall and winter for about a 12-14 week bulk cycle, take some hcg and caber for cycle support w nolva or Clomid on deck, and run a 4 week pct . Then come spring I'd run test e and tren ace for about 8-10 weeks to cut and harden up. Same cycle support and pct as mentioned above.

Am I being over zealous? Does this seem legit? Keep it real, thanks a lot.

 

[bonacris]

Hey man welcome to the boards. You have done some good research but you need to do a little more as regards pct.. deca for a 1st cycle is not recommended just because it can cause some unusual progesterone related side effects, plus the deca ester is incredibly ling so deca does be out of your system for months.. I read somewhere it can still be detected 18months after you cycle.. my very 1st cycle was test deca and dbol.. I gained about 40lbs of water and pretty much list it all.. my pct was Clomid and nolva..

Also nolva with a 19nor such a deca do not mix.. nolva is for estrogen but causes an up regulation of progesterone receptors so there fore your deca side effects can be exacerbated..

I have run test e and dbol and loved the cycle. Mild side effects such as a few spots but I've had spots since I was a teen even had to take antibiotics for it so I'm prone.. if you use aromasin as you ai then estrogen issues won't affect you

Ultimately the decision is your but I personally won't touch deca again as there are much better options

Also tren is a 19nor aswell so nolva is a no go with that aswell.. tren is a long way down the line as it is the harshest steroid.. I haven't run it but I've done my research.. stick to test e and dbol for your 1st cycle and then maybe add something to your next if you like but tren is another beast

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[stevesmi]

what you do is up to you.

but I won't recommend deca to a first time user because its a complex AAS and during the process of cycle and pct things can happen which you won't know what to do .. gyno, limp dick, progesterone problems, etc etc. .. now you can ignore that and run it and learn on your own its totally up to you. i really think deca for a first cycle is counter productive

the guy who wrote that anabolics 2012 is on HRT for life. so be careful who you take advice from. if you want to go on HRT too then follow his advice and have at it. but if you want to cycle for years and preserve your HPTA ie: your nuts.. then listen to guys like me and others on here that actually CYCLE. this guy you are taking advice from is CEO at HRT.Rx.com, a nationwide network of HRT/Anti-Aging Physicians. it even says that on the amazon page!! lol. my question is if he is so smart why is he on HRT or why does he push HRT in his practice? so much for his 'studies'

that is great though you are researching and kudos to you. remember your first few cycles you are gonna learn the ABC's and must learn from your trials and errors. there are guys who have been juicing, fishing, playing poker etc etc for years and years and are still clueless. and i've read excerpts of this book and frankly his perspective is from a doctors view, not from a true gym rats view.

 

[macnificent]

Thanks for the feedback. I had no idea that guy completely shut himself down and is an HRT advocate. Deca is off my list. However, I'm a little worried about orals bc of hepatoxicity. Are there any other injectables that go well w test and limit estrogenic sides? I know that tren is a beast, that's why its struck my ire to a large degree.

 

[bonacris]

Get liver support in the form of N2guard.. it will keep blood pressure down, keep the liver and kidneys healthy.. we only recommend running morals for 4weeks to kick start the cycle.. I love test e and dbol cycle.. the gains are some what wet but I generally feel awesome while on cycle..

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[stevesmi]

it is hard to kill your liver. look at all the alcoholics out there. as long as you stick to orals for a few weeks and don't go crazy i don't see a problem.

also a lot of your concerns with organs can be solved by simply running blood tests frequently.

as far as what injectables you can stack. you can stack whatever you want. there are plenty to choose from. you are gonna want to experiment with them and keep changing them up anyway. don't ask me why but running the same cycle over and over gets boring.

 

[Xandoz]

No NEVER run a cycle without testosterone, you NEED to have testosterone in every cycle if you are a male. I don't see why you would run one without it if you are going to be injecting anyways?

 

[macnificent]

Wasn't my idea bro, I was thinking same as you

 

[buttbeater]

i know a friend who did something like 500-1000mg of deca as a first cycle as a teeneager........he ended up huge, then he shrunk, then he had gyno surgery and had a hard time getting an erection at 17!!!!!!!! don't touch it. test, or test and dbol at small doses are good, keep it under 500mg for the test!

 

[dvoted]

No NEVER run a cycle without testosterone, you NEED to have testosterone in every cycle if you are a male. I don't see why you would run one without it if you are going to be injecting anyways?

This is simply untrue, yes it will be beneficial, but theres guys on this forum that run tren only cycles. None the less its a debateable topic. You do, however, need the proper ancilaries.