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Death penalty: whats your opinion ?

Death Penalty for or against

  • Yessss !!!! Texas is paradise !!!!

    Votes: 26 57.8%

  • No thanks !!!!

    Votes: 19 42.2%
  • Total voters
    45
manny78

manny78

Plat Hero
Platinum
Since many of you are from the USA, was just wondering your opinion on capital punishement. Here in Canada this was abolished in 1976 (last execution occured in 1962). Personally I dont know yet what my position on this very contreversial topic is. I know some bastards deserves to be executed but I'm also amazed to see how many people saw their verdict reversed, thats brings me a question: how many died cause they just couldn't afford to appeal from their sentence ?


:confused: :confused: :confused:
 
BigDdaGanjalist said:
Im gonna say for sake of argument: against it.

What if u get the wrong guy? It would be ok IMO if there was matching DNA.
Click to expand...

This is why it was abolished here: too many errors.
 
In some cases it is justified. I have heard many arguements for and against. Over here people like Dr. Harold Shipman - responsible for over 200 deaths which I think is even more than Timothy McVie (and they think there are still more) are definetly a good candidate. He WILL be in jail for life (TV, education, gym, etc.....)

Derick Copeland - Soho bomber (Extreme Right Activist who killed several people including a pregnant women) gets to go to Broadmore - is he mentally ill - NO he knew what the fuck he was doing. (Probably out in 15 years)

I wish these people could be tried in Texas.

However when this county did have the death penalty we made a few mistakes - Derick Bentley, Ruth Ellis are a couple that come to mind.

So, I guess I am in favour but I think that the evidence must indicate beyond reasonable doubt that the accused is guilty of the crime.

I'm not sure I would execute some of the people on death row in Texas.

Napoleon Beezly..... well I'm still indecided. You may want to look at a thread I started on this.

http://boards.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=43923
 
We haven´t had capital punishment in sweden since 1919 or something. I´m totally against it, because 2 wrongs don´t make a right. No one has the right to decide over a human life. But I think they could treat the killers with less humanity ;)

Is this double moral? If it is..... SO BE IT! :finger:

and :moon:

and :doublefi:
 
manny78 said:


This is why it was abolished here: too many errors.
Click to expand...

Yeah and i recall, here in Canada, in the past year or two about inmates (2 incidents) who've been jailed for 10-15 years being cleared of crimes through DNA. And are now trying to sue?

Imagine if they still had the death penalty. . . one of them was charged for the rape and murder of a young child?
 
Like Roadblock said, 2 wrong dont make a right! :rolleyes:

So I'm against it!

But I think that if you want to punish someone, dont give him all he need (TV, gym, etc...). Some of them live better life inside that they were outside.
 
BigDdaGanjalist said:


Yeah and i recall, here in Canada, in the past year or two about inmates (2 incidents) who've been jailed for 10-15 years being cleared of crimes through DNA. And are now trying to sue?

Imagine if they still had the death penalty. . . one of them was charged for the rape and murder of a young child?
Click to expand...

He would have been sentenced easily.....
 
Warik said:
All rapists and murderers should be put to death.

-Warik
Click to expand...

I know this thread came from the two I been arguing for the last 2 days... Contrary to popular belief, I am with Warik..... but you better be damn sure it is the right guy. I also think Child Molesters should be gutted... Rapists and Molesters should get worse than death... but we gotta be sure. This issue is not a Texas issue either.
 
i disagree

Roadblock said:
We haven´t had capital punishment in sweden since 1919 or something. I´m totally against it, because 2 wrongs don´t make a right. No one has the right to decide over a human life. But I think they could treat the killers with less humanity ;)

Is this double moral? If it is..... SO BE IT! :finger:

and :moon:

and :doublefi:
Click to expand...

if he is guilty without any doubt, he should get death penalty. Or she.

quote you again:

"No one has the right to decide over a human life"

except the murderer, he has all the rights....:confused:
 
dballer, you knew i'd show up

I can not rewrite all of the shit I have already done. Go to the "Texas Inmates Last Meals" thread.

I am a Dist. Atty. in Texas. I have put two men on death row. One has been executed the other is in the appellate process. I belive some people forfiet their lives when they commit certain acts.

The death penalty can only be given for homocide in the US. In every state the defendant must be found guilty of the offense beyond a reasonable doubt. Only a jury can do this, no political hack judges. Even after conviction, there is a sentencing stage that allows a jury to assess a life sentence. This varies some from state to state. In every state this senencing mechanism must allow the jury to consider things like IQ, motive, psycological disorders, background, etc. Not every homocide qualifies for death penalty. What does and doesn't varies from state to state. Even if the homocide is charged as a capital, the prosecutor may waive the death penalty and try the case for life (which in Texas means he will be eligible for parole in 40 years) I have done this three times.

hasta

litig8r
 
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AMAZING the lack of compassion and understanding the human race has.

Two wrongs don't make a right, and you don't fight fire with fire, especially when you don't even know what kind of fuel the flames are running off of. (i hope you know what I mean by that...Well if you don't, it means that it's easy for someone to say this and that about a certain situation when it doesn't involve them personally). If everyone's so bloodthirsty as to kill violent criminals, who undoubtedly aren't in their right mind when they do heinous crimes, why not kill everyone related to making them who they are today? Kill the parents, abusive uncles, kill the little bastards that mentally tormented the person to death in school, kill the makers of those faces of death videos...Just get it all over with if that's the case, those things and people all had a part in making that person what he/she is/was. I hear the "well it's their choice" arguement against that so often, but apparently these people who spout this crap off were never the victim of abuse or any sort of mental trauma or anything that would lead you down that psycho road, so of course they can say that..It's the easy way out of the arguement cause they just don't want to admit that no one wants to take time to help people.

Why not rehabilitate the person and help them through their already hellish life instead of just saying "oh the hell with you it's easier to just kill you and not care about how you were made to be like this, no one cares about you, fuck off and die." It's cause humans are assholes, thats why we don't bother. The lord loves a hanging, baby.

I'd love to see some of you people who talk the whole pro death sentence thing one day get tossed into a situation where you just snap and do something you wouldn't normally have done. You come home to find your wife in bed with another guy and you whack the guy in face, real hard, cause you're so enraged you can't control yourself, and it ends up killing the guy. No one is innocent, it can happen to any one of you. It happened up here where I lived last year, some guy was at a teen hockey game and he went over to the coach of the opposing team and punched him once and killed him cause he said something he didn't like or whatever. I'd like to see the tune you all sing then if something like that ever happened to you. "Oh please god no, i didn't mean it I don't know what came over me you gotta understand!" Yeah fuck off and die, no one cares.

Just goes to show you how worthless life is to people who consider themselves to be sane...Judges, juries, people out there who are pro death penalty. You're just as sick in the head as the murderers who commit the crimes. And to a very small percentage of you, one day it will all come back and somehow bite you on the ass.
 
some People are just Evil

You are nieve. You have obviously never met a truley evil person. A person who has absolutely no regard for life or property. the type of person hwo either enjoys inflicting pain on children and weaker adults or feels nothing when they do. I have just finished looking at phots of a 4 year old child thrown in front of an eighteen wheeler on an interstate while traveling 70 miles an hour. The DAD did it because the kid would not shut up. Why not, he had other kids. Lets try an rehabilitate his ass and see if he is successful with those. SOME PEOPLE DESERVE TO DIE. The problem is making sure those who do, deserve it.

hasta

litig8r
 
Well I would probably agree for 1st degree homicide, rape, robbery followed by homicide, bombing with death.... but despite the fact that this person is guilty beyond reasonnable doubt at 99% It still to see a governement taking lifes away..... humm
 
hi Burning, we continue to disagree i guess..

quote you:

"You come home to find your wife in bed with another guy and you whack the guy in face, real hard, cause you're so enraged you can't control yourself, and it ends up killing the guy"

That's not murder to the first degree. That's homicide (don't know the exact word). You hit him in anger.

So, i was definitly not refering to that.


"and you whack the guy in face". You should wack the wife in face, afterall she is screwing him or gets screwed.

"AMAZING the lack of compassion".
Especially when you are the one that gets hurt.



:confused:
 
Re: some People are just Evil

litig8r said:
You are nieve. You have obviously never met a truley evil person. A person who has absolutely no regard for life or property. the type of person hwo either enjoys inflicting pain on children and weaker adults or feels nothing when they do. I have just finished looking at phots of a 4 year old child thrown in front of an eighteen wheeler on an interstate while traveling 70 miles an hour. The DAD did it because the kid would not shut up. Why not, he had other kids. Lets try an rehabilitate his ass and see if he is successful with those. SOME PEOPLE DESERVE TO DIE. The problem is making sure those who do, deserve it.

hasta

litig8r
Click to expand...

Now your talking pal!!!!
 
You have obviously never met a truley evil person. A person who has absolutely no regard for life or property. the type of person hwo either enjoys inflicting pain on children and weaker adults or feels nothing when they do.
Click to expand...

Yeah take a look in the mirror bwahahah. Again hipocrisy to serve your own views.
 
Re: some People are just Evil

litig8r said:
You are nieve. You have obviously never met a truley evil person. A person who has absolutely no regard for life or property. the type of person hwo either enjoys inflicting pain on children and weaker adults or feels nothing when they do. SOME PEOPLE DESERVE TO DIE. The problem is making sure those who do, deserve it.

hasta

litig8r
Click to expand...


You're correct on this one. We had some bastards like that here recently. Evil persons like Paul Bernardo, Carla Omolka, 2 or 3 guys from the Hells Angels and Bandidos, these deserve to die...... Rehabilitation is something unthinkable with them.....
 
I've watched an execution. The execution of a man I put on death row. I cried the entire night afterwards. Anyone who takes this shit lightly has no business doing it. I hate it. I do not like making the decision on wheather or not to seek the death penalty but it has to be done. No matter how right it may be, it is still the hardest thing i ever have to do. When it stops making me loose sleep, It will be time to quit.

hasta

litig8r
 
Why don't we gather all......

the death row inmates and turn them over to goatslayer. That would be worse than the death sentence in any language! Later!
 
litig8rlitig8r - which county are you in ? I understand if you dont want to say. (smal world and all)


You are right. I would rather not say. Some of this shit can come back to roost. Lets just say I don't have to dial "1" to reach you.

hasta

litig8r
 
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litig8r said:
I've watched an execution. The execution of a man I put on death row. I cried the entire night afterwards. Anyone who takes this shit lightly has no business doing it. I hate it. I do not like making the decision on wheather or not to seek the death penalty but it has to be done. No matter how right it may be, it is still the hardest thing i ever have to do. When it stops making me loose sleep, It will be time to quit.

hasta

litig8r
Click to expand...

So basically what you are saying is that you, as the litigator who seeks and pushes for the death penalty is the one who should decide who should live or die? That is absurd. You can't even spell homicide correctly. I guess all you have to lose is sleep.
 
No I don't decide to execute someone nor do I do it. I decide if a NEUTRAL PANEL OF TWELVE CITIZENS selected by me and the defendant's attorney in a process that takes sometimes a month or more will get to hear the case. THEY will decide if the defendant is guilty and then if he will be executed. They have agreed with me before resulting in a death penalty and they have disagreed with me before resulting in a life sentence. That is the way it works. Checks and Balances. No individual makes the decision. As an aside, the ass wipe that I tried for capital murder that got a life sentence killed another inmate in prison but I guess that was ok.

hasta


litig8r
 
The main problem I have with this has to do with the jury system in the first place. Not all countries have the jury system in place (Sweden for example), instead the judge and supporting judges rule.

The idea with the jury system is to be judged by your peers, but the people they drag in for jury duty are rarely your peers. Many times they are complete idiots, driven by emotions rather than logic.

Also, even though some of these criminals should 'deserve' to die, shouldn't our society strive to be better by not adopting such ancient eye-for-an-eye ruling mechanisms? The legal system shouldn't be based on emotions, or on notions of 'justice' and 'retribution' for the victims' families, but on applying established laws in an logical and orderly fashion.

Also, by offing such criminals, you eliminate any possibilities for psychological study of what makes criminal commit such heinois crimes in the first place.

I would say put them to work where it positively affects society, more than having them make belt buckles and license plates, or whatever they do in there.

Capital punishment is grossly outdated, and the majority of people agree on this point.
 
I guess death penalty is less expensive than keeping someone for the next 40 yeras inside.......
 
When you take the death penalty debate on an international level, it gets quite complex. Most other nations do not require the government to prove guilt, there are prohibitions against making one accused of a crime present evidence or testify. I can not even HINT that a jury consider a defendant's failure to testify without getting my case reversed. As for emotion, the Courts and Rules of procedure and Evidence have tried to sterilize crime. We call Rape sexual assault. I am not allowed to introduce "gruesome or grotesch" photos of autopsy or crimes scene unless I can articulate a specific reason for doing so. I can not talk about the fact that a defendant has killed before or is a drug dealer or child molestor because that might predjudice the jury. No, the laws in this country are designed for the sole purpose of protecting the accused with little or no regard for the victim. However, with strong evidenc and skilled prosecutors we overcome these hurdles to do our jobs. I don't really complain because the rules are there to protect those rare instances where an innocent man is charged. They are not there to protect the guilty. As for a jury of peers, most counties do not have a sufficient population of murders, child molesters and drug dealers to routinely provide a true jury of their peers. We have to do with regular everyday, law abiding citizens. If that is a flaw, I'll live with it.

As for study, that why God made monkeys :D

hasta

litig8r
 
The point I wanted to make about the jury system was that how a panel of normal folks who may or may not be of reasonable intelligence have the ability to sift through the barrage of information that is presented in a case. How can folks off the street be able to determine if for example the DNA testing presents the proper evidence, or if a complex sequence of events would imply guilt.

The jury doesn't even want to be there, let alone think too hard or too long. No wonder the 'oscar' nominated closing arguments seal the case.

When asked to decide on a man's fate, who knows what's in a jury member's past or what's in their minds that would cause a yea or a nay decision. They could be remorseful of a loved one's death that's similar to the case at hand, or just think that the guy 'looks' guilty, and 'probably' is.
 
Jury system is shit. Go ask to any attorney or investigator: there's always a leader or two among them. Once you have identified who they're your job as an attorney is pretty easier. At least thats what we learn at the bar school......
 
Sorry Im a little late on the discussion. There always will be errors in the judicial system, that is a problem with the judicial system not the death penalty. The death penalty in the united does not work right now. It doesnt work because it is not implimented enough. If all first degree murderers, rapists and child molesters were put to death the disgusting things that happen in this country would decrease amazingly.IMO. I dont think the death penalty should only be a penalty for murder. rapist and child molester should be castrated then put to death. I am serious.
 
life is good - you can't be serious, but in the case you are, I will post a serious reply.

There is not a finite number of 1st degree murderers, rapists, and child molesters that can be eliminated. Such criminals are created by the society they live in, with perhaps some help from certain genes.

One of the main purposes for any punishment is to act as a deterrent to would-be criminals. The problem with such disgusting crimes of which we are speaking, is that the persons committing them are not able to reason that deterring factor against their impulse or desire to act. I don't think a person committing armed robbery weighs "hmmm...I'll commit armed robbery, and if I get caught, I'll get 10 yrs, but I better not kill anyone, since I could possibly get life or execution".

The key is to focus on what breeds such acts, not on punishing for punishments sake.
 
nikolai_bolkov, I agree completely about focusing and fixing what breeds these kinds of crimes, but I DO think that the death penalty if executed enough is a detterent. And the armed robbery thing. There are many many documented cases and studes done where people stated that they either did not load the gun or did not use a gun for that very reason. Also people have dropped hostages at state lines because the state they were entering had the death penalty for kidnapping.

I understand that some crimes will not and cannot ever be dettered but that doesnt mean we should not do everything in our power to detter the ones we can(which I believe are the majority) As stated above a non premeditated murder is not a capital crime. I dont believe you should be put to death for a non premeditated crime.(like the walking in on the wife). IN that crime someone may hit someone too hard or act in a moment of rage. But ALL acts of child molestation or rape are premeditated. You can tell me that someone doesnt premeditate their rape or whatever but that is complete BULLSHIT. And I wont believe it for a second. There are too many variables and too much crap to argue about but i honestly believe that this nation is going to destroy itself and the implementation of the death penalty much more often could at least slow the proccess down.
oh yah and send all your child molesters to me and I will Slaughter them myself. forget all that we dont have the right to take life crap. if someone touches my little sister i will tourture that person I would castrate and touture that person for weeks. I am a sick freak I know. But the injustice in this country makes me sick.
 
For it in theory....against it in practice.


Look, if there is absolutely no doubt on the killer's guilt, I'll have no problems in killing the guy. But in real life, often we don't know for sure. Not 100% sure.
 
Sorry to chime in so late, but I am against the death penalty. Litig8tr is from Texas, a state, previously, where the option of life without parole was not a sentencing option. So in a capital case, the jurors had the choice of the death penalty or life with the chance of parole (guy would serve about 40 years). Many Texas jurors who were polled said that had the option of life without parole been presented, they would have opted for that sentence in lieu of the death penalty.
In many other U.S. jurisdictions, life without parole is a sentencing option. That is why Texas is the death penalty capital of the world.
So when litig8tr says that a jury agreed with him on the death penalty, it may not be that the jurors really felt that death was appropriate. Rather, death was the better alternative than giving the defendant a chance to get out on parole.
Let us not forget that many death row inmates have been vindicated and that 22% of those vindications involved false confessions. I believe beyond a reasonable doubt that the U.S. has executed an innocent person. Our system of proof beyond a reasonable doubt does not assure us of convicting only guilty defendants. Obviously, prosecutors have obtained convictions and death sentences against innocent people. So when litig8tr claims that the rules of evidence are designed "to protect those rare instances where an innocent man is charged," obviously the rules of evidence don't do that. The jury system in the U.S. does not perform its function so well that innocent people are not executed. I believe that it is the best system (in theory) in the world, but it is not equipped to determine whether the state should execute someone.
I am not in any way attempting to flame or to attack litig8tr. He is doing what he believes to be correct. I am only rebutting his posts. I am sure that he is deeply disturbed by the decisions he has to make in capital cases. And for that, I offer my sympathies. But I could not ask that someone be executed. To me, that is playing God--saying who deserves to live and who deserves to die. Yes, juries make the final decision on the death penalty, but someone asked and persuaded them. That's a job I refuse to do.
Litig8tr is correct that there are some extremely dangerous people out there. I have several clients that truly deserve life without parole, because they seem to me to be very evil. But as I said, I could not ask for the death penalty against them, because it requires me to judge my fellow man and determine whether he lives or dies. I'd rather leave that up to God come Judgment Day.
 
NYC is correct. Texas still does not have Life wthout parole. I in fact supported a bill that would have given Texans that choice. (our legislature only meets once every two years. We don't want them fucking things up year round) Some of my fellow DAs disagreed with me for the vary reason stated by NYC, It would cut down on the death penalty. I do not think it will make much difference. The last man that I tried to a death penalty was 38 when he was sentenced. The jury knew he would die in prison. I told them he would die behind bars if they gave him life. They still answered the special issues in such a way they knew would result in death. In fact they did so in 1 hour and 15 min.

As for innocent men being executed, it may be possible. I can only address the cases I have tried or to which I have had been closely tied. There was no question about guilt.

Your point on confessions is well taken. I am not as well versed in the law of other States as you seem to,but in Texas you can not obtain a conviction on a confession alone. You must have other evidence that tends to link the defendant to the crime. This is in all criminal cases. Additionally, Texas confessions must be Written or recorded with the defendant acknowleging he knows he being recorded, the recording must contain the reading of the defendant's rights and the defendant's waiver of those rights before a jury will ever here it. None of the NYPD blue "tell me what you did - here write it on a legal pad"

These rules and others are DESIGNED to protect the accused'd rights. No doubt, individuals who are "not guilty" sometimes (but rarely) get convicted. That is the purpose of our lengthy multilevel, multijurisdictional appellate process that takes years, sometimes decades to complete. This certainly is not for the benefit of the victims or the government.

Finally, perhaps it is distinction without a difference, but I merely present a case made up of facts and evidence. The jury must decide. I do what my laws ask me to do and what I feel is moral. It is not easy. Assisting in anothers death should not be. As i stated before, when asking for a death penalty no longer bothers me, It is time to go chase some ambulances.

NYC,I suspect I would enjoy trying a case with you. You sond like the kind of defense attorney that would make work. Unfortunately, more often than not, that is not the case.

hasta


litig8r
 
In New York, a conviction, also, cannot be based solely upon a confession. It is true of most jurisdictions. Unfortunately, jurors convict in almost 99% of homicide cases where there is a confession. So it seems that the corroborative evidence required for conviction is not substantial.
Unfortuantley, New York does not require audio/videotaped confessions. I do remember Texas' rule of admissibility; I graduated from U of H law school. Maybe when I go and visit my parents in Texas, we could meet up.
Litig8tr, no matter how you ever feel about the death penalty, there's never a reason to do personal injury law. :D
 
Sorry, lost my head there for a minute. It could be worse though. My wife is a Board Certified Family Law attorney. Talk about screwed. :worried:

Hey, how did a Texas boy end up in NYC doing defense work or were you just passing through for law school?

hasta

litig8r
 
People tend to forget the actions of the inmate at the time of the execution. People start to feel sorry for these repeated rapists, baby killers, molesters, and murderers. Its a shame.
 
nycdefender said:
Unfortunately, jurors convict in almost 99% of homicide cases where there is a confession.
Click to expand...

Yes. It's quite a shame that the number is not closer to 100%.

I don't see the point of even having a trial if there is a confession. Just a waste of taxpayer dollars.

"Hi sir did you kill Mr. Smith?"

"yes I did"

"Ok please report to the local courthouse in 2 weeks for your trial."

"Uh, but I just confessed."

"But you still have to go to trial."

"So I just confessed for nothing?"

"No... not for nothing... because you confessed, there is a 1% chance that you won't be convicted"

"Cool!"

-Warik
 
This is not an easy question to answer.

A legal system that is too inept and too flawed and makes too many mistakes in serious cases doesn't have the right to sentence people to death.

Imagine an innocent convict whose confession was coerced and was still admitted in court is wrongly sentenced to death and executed. In the US there are several cases where the more than one person has been convicted of the same crime and has been sentenced and is serving time, even though logically only one person could have done it. A 'justice' system that is so idiotic and irrational doesn't deserve to wield the death penalty as a means of punishment.

On the other hand the death penalty is appropriate for the most heinous crimes, IMHO. But who is perfect enough in judgement to administer it?

hardgainer (my two cents)
 
if he is guilty without any doubt, he should get death penalty. Or she.

quote you again:

"No one has the right to decide over a human life"

except the murderer, he has all the rights....
Click to expand...

As I said, 2 wrongs don´t make a right. When you decide to take his life for what he has done then you´re sinking down to his level. If he is about to be punished then take away his rights, let him live on bread and water. As Pinky Girl said, they have sometimes better in jail than outside and that is wrong.
 
humm

hi everyone,ill let u know whats going on in spain,there is a terrorist clan that want t be the rulers of the country but not by votes,they want to win by scarring the shit out of everyone,they blast day on day of ,aeroports,supermarkets,in the fu g street ,blowing up families with kids babies ,old men and laddies,anything that comes across in that moment,now u tell me what we should do?if we had the death penalty for terrorist and social monster that kill babies and fu g eat them and stuff like that i dont think they would do the things they do,i agree that the sholud studie the cases well so no inecents die ,in that case no death penalty,only on clear guilty mother fu kers,and think about it dont judge from the right to live angle ,some peoplo dont deserve to live
 
I agree

with hardgainer.....the system is flawed and corrupt..so who's to say you're guilty......on the other hand.....Warik, if the criminal admits without a 12 hour
"conforcion", then eliminate the courtroom crap, appeals process, etc. Here in Irving, George Rivas he of the Texas Seven Gang, was sentenced to die earlier this week... He stated a few times, he didn't want to be stuck in prison like an animal, death would give him freedom. Even if he waives his appeals process, he will still spend about a year before they put the syringes in his arm. For some reason, it's more expensive to kill em, than it is to house them. Don't know why, two 9mm slugs, or a rope, very inexpensive...............
 
Warik, just because there is a "confession" does not mean that a person committed the crime. Recall that from my earlier post, 22% of cases where a person was later exonerated by DNA evidence involved false confessions. The study was done, I believe, by the Innocence Project at Cardozo Law School. Perhaps that margin of error in death penalty cases is acceptable to you. But I imagine for many people, that is an outrageous margin.
I'm sure that HeMan would be appalled if he executed an innocent person.:D
 
Natymike said:
People tend to forget the actions of the inmate at the time of the execution. People start to feel sorry for these repeated rapists, baby killers, molesters, and murderers. Its a shame.
Click to expand...


You're right......I recall Karla Faye Tucker...the woman executed a couple of years ago.....in Huntsville....the media....made her into a hero/martyr

nyc....you're right...22% is disgusting.....there are some obvious problems with the process....nobody wants to change em....why do you think that is? As a matter of fact, nobody even talks about it, unless some independent study is done....(Cardozo Law School), and once that is made public, the officials sometimes acknowledge problems, but still do nothing......what do you think?
 
berry de mey

isn't that the ETA, Catalans who want their piece of the country and seperate from Spain?

The same shit happens in Ireland. The IRA acts like terrorists because they want independency. On the other hand Australie had the change to be independant and they voted to stay in the Common Wealth.

Isn't it a strange world?
 
I think I'm against it except in true-self-defense. More because people can change, I believe, rather than because we might have the wrong person - although that is worth taking seriously...well, also because we don't have the right to take a life imo...we don't have the right to destroy what we didn't create imo...

But some killing is much less justified than other...i can see that...

Don't kill people just because you don't like their accent... :rolleyes:

The Gileadites captured the fords of the Jordan leading to Ephraim, and whenever a survivor of Ephraim said, "Let me cross over," the men of Gilead asked him, "Are you an Ephraimite?"

If he replied, "No," they said, "All right, say `Shibboleth.'" If he said, " Sibboleth ," because he could not pronounce the word correctly, they seized him and killed him at the fords of the Jordan. Forty-two thousand Ephraimites were killed at that time.
Click to expand...

uh-huh.

Killing someone who doesn't agree with you or tells you the truth is also particularly unjustified imo :bawling:

love
Helen
 
Re: berry de mey

Jeff_rys said:
isn't that the ETA, Catalans who want their piece of the country and seperate from Spain?


Isn't it a strange world?
Click to expand...

The batsards from ETA deserve death penalty, I have no doubt on this. Just like it used to be before.
 
nikolai_bolkov said:


The idea with the jury system is to be judged by your peers, but the people they drag in for jury duty are rarely your peers. Many times they are complete idiots, driven by emotions rather than logic.

Click to expand...


well that sounds like the peers of a murderer to me.
only half kidding!
 
nikolai_bolkov said:


Also, even though some of these criminals should 'deserve' to die, shouldn't our society strive to be better by not adopting such ancient eye-for-an-eye ruling mechanisms? The legal system shouldn't be based on emotions, or on notions of 'justice' and 'retribution' for the victims' families, but on applying established laws in an logical and orderly fashion.
Click to expand...

you havn't said WHY our society should strive to be better, but i will guess that your answer will be based on emotions.
 
For people who are against the death penalty.

What is going to be your opinion if somehow Bin Laden is handed over to the United States? I assume he would be put on trial.

So, I assume that you will still believe that he should be put in jail and rehabilitated?
 
i don't believe in the death penalty but since there is one, i think it at least needs to be modified. Rape deserves the death penalty
 
BO-CEPHUS said:
For people who are against the death penalty.

What is going to be your opinion if somehow Bin Laden is handed over to the United States? I assume he would be put on trial.

So, I assume that you will still believe that he should be put in jail and rehabilitated?
Click to expand...

I think the US shouldn't wate money on a trial, he should just be executed in public.
 
I decide if a NEUTRAL PANEL OF TWELVE CITIZENS selected by me and the defendant's attorney in a process that takes sometimes a month or more will get to hear the case.
Click to expand...

Hasn´t this system failed before?
 
I think people should get life sentence if they murder, because it´s always possible that the judge or the jury is wrong.
A lot of people have been executed for felonies they didn´t commit.If they were still in prison and they got a life sentence for a wrong punishment at least they had the rest of their life.

No judical system is foolproof, i don´t think that there are a lot of cases where it was absolutely clear that one commited the murder.

If someone has to spend the rest of his life in prison his life is taken away as well and they don´t endanger anyone while they are in prison.
 
aurelius said:


What´s the difference in taking away a man´s life by locking him in jail for the rest of his life and killing him?
Click to expand...

If he didn´t commit the crime he has the rest of his life to live. If he commited the crime he deserves to rot in jail.
 
Hmmm..

I think the system is fucking bullshit. After some thought I feel that I DON'T believe in the death penalty, for these reasons:

- It's normally more expensive to execute a man than it is to support him in prison for life.

-For most of these 'individuals,' it is FAR, FAR to easy an out. Most of us 'decent citizens' dont get to die a painless death like lethal injection when we finally do kick.

I think a life sentence with *NO* possiblity of parole should be the alternative. Life means life, until you die, no time off for good behavior.

I also think the prison system is off. Make these animals WORK for their room and board, fuck, we all have to out in the world.

Every single day, for the rest of their lives they should be giving back to society in some way. Not lying around in their cells watching TV or whatever the hell goes on in there. Some serious work, if they dont work, they dont eat, just like those of us out in the real world.

I simply cannot believe that we as Americans spend more money supporting vicious killers than we do educating children in public schools.
 
I simply cannot believe that we as Americans spend more money supporting vicious killers than we do educating children in public schools.
Click to expand...

Agreed, but the reason is simple. There´s more money in prisons and if there´s money in it, then that´s the best thing to do. Right?
 
Re: Hmmm..

Frackal said:

I also think the prison system is off. Make these animals WORK for their room and board, fuck, we all have to out in the world.

Every single day, for the rest of their lives they should be giving back to society in some way. Not lying around in their cells watching TV or whatever the hell goes on in there. Some serious work, if they dont work, they dont eat, just like those of us out in the real world.
Click to expand...


well put. I agree 100%.
 
aurelius said:


...in a cage! How is that more CIVILIZED? more HUMANE?
Click to expand...
What i meant was that if it becomes clear that he is innocent after the trial and after spending some time in prison he can still be released. If he was killed that´s impossible.
 
What i meant was that if it becomes clear that he is innocent after the trial and after spending some time in prison he can still be released. If he was killed that´s impossible.
Click to expand...

OK. It just seems like you´ll have a better chance getting out if you get the death penalty as you´ll become the cause celêbre and everyone will want to defend you. Life? Who cares?
 
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