Dbol- Is It Really Necessary???

[Wisea$$]

D-Bol Makes me Happy!

D-bol may not be necessary but it sure as hell makes me one happy camper when I take them.

There is something folks on this board seem to forget.. Everyone's body reacts different to different drugs.
For example; I can gain a lot more mass from less androgenic drugs.. Test works for me but Deca and D-bol work Big-Time. I think it boils down to what works for you.
Really the only way to find out is spend the time and money to basically test things on yourself and find out what you respond to and go from there..

 

[MadCow1]

ONCE AGAIN--NO TAPERING, NO TAPERING, NO TAPERING, tapering is compramising your gains and recovery

Dboll alone cycles are a WASTE

The points I had issue with are these. I agree with the extensive caveats you stated above but your original post presented a much more black and white issue against dbol and tapering - hence my own post and explanations.

 

[GaryWary]

Re: Typical EF Mentality

Dude - having known tons of guys who ran dbol alone very successfully......

....acting roids to buildup in their bodies. So maybe "kickstart" should be called a "now and later".

Top notch excellent post.

 

[serge]

The points I had issue with are these. I agree with the extensive caveats you stated above but your original post presented a much more black and white issue against dbol and tapering - hence my own post and explanations.

why would you disagree with No tapering? do you honestly think that by reducing the dose your body will gradually upregulate its own test production? your body looks at things at a very black and white perspective, if there is more hormones present it will cut out its own, so as long as there is andogeneous hormones present in your body you will not start recovering, so what is the point of tapering? will smaller dose of gear make you gain anything once your body adjusted to the full dose? NO........... instead you will gradually begin to loose muscle, just like when you stop taking long acting gear, its still in you but you are no longer growing, for that reason you want to switch over to fast acting stuff and enter the clomid therapy right after your last shot

dboll alone will not yeild much of keepable gains, you will gain no doubt but why not add some injectible right in there?

 

[Gambler]

Mad Cow

Could you post what you think a well planned/tapered d-bol only cycle would look like? (including post cycle therapy)

 

[plornive]

I am a newbie planning a 12 week (10 weeks of injection) test enth/cyp 400mg + eq 400mg cycle. What is the minimum dose and duration I could take dbol that will still do an effective job of kickstarting my cycle? I am 165 lbs 8% bf (will be when I start).

In this case, should I taper the dbol as my exogenous test levels rise? How much muscle mass will dbol add to my cycle? I have decided I just want concentrate on mass, with less regard to staying lean. Thanks.

 

[Vageta]

dboll alone will not yeild much of keepable gains

Please explain to me the scientific explanation between gains that are unkeepable versus gains that are keepable? I didn't think so. Muscle is muscle regardless if it is created by Test, Dbol, Fina or Anadrol. You act as if your body keeps tabs on what part of the muscle you've just gained came from what drug. So long as you haven't passed your natural genetic limit then all gains should be viewed as keepable. The very reason you think that Dbol gains can't be kept is the very reason both I and Madcow are arguing with you. If you come off of Dbol cold turkey with no longer lasting androgens in your system then clomid alone won't be able to spur your HPTA in to action fast enough to retain the gains you've manated to create.

Dbol has a 4.5 hour halflife which means a single dose in the morning will mostly be out of your system by night time, especially a smaller dose. When cycling the Dbol you generally take multiple doses throughout the day to keep blood levels stable, however when it's time to come off of the Dbol you switch a morning only dose. This small dose will be enough to prevent muscle catabolism and will slowly taper off during the day. By the time you go to bed most if not all of it will be out of your system and while you sleep your HPTA will slowly begin to fire up again. The addition of clomid will make this process even faster and more efficient.

Also no one is arguing that Dbol stacked with test is better. Any kindergartner can deduce this simple logic. The only fact I'm arguing is that Dbol CAN be used effectively alone. You don't need test or other drugs to "solidify" gains. This whole solidify gains mentality is a farce. It's simply a crutch for those who can't figure out how to properly come off of a cycle so they have to rely on other drugs to help them out.

If what you said was true then I guess all of the bodybuilders from the past including Arnold, Zane, Draper, etc... are figments of our imagination as they were huge proponents of Dbol and there wasn't even clomid back then. How did they keep their gains? Tapering their Dbol doses so that their HPTA would slowly come back naturally plain and simple.

 

[NFG123]

I am a newbie planning a 12 week (10 weeks of injection) test enth/cyp 400mg + eq 400mg cycle. What is the minimum dose and duration I could take dbol that will still do an effective job of kickstarting my cycle? I am 165 lbs 8% bf (will be when I start).

In this case, should I taper the dbol as my exogenous test levels rise? How much muscle mass will dbol add to my cycle? I have decided I just want concentrate on mass, with less regard to staying lean. Thanks.

a) minimum dose of dbol you can take in a cycle is 0 mg ED
b) 4-6 weeks for dbol if you use it
c) dont taper the dbol esp if you are using oil based Test esters
d) since you are already adding test en and eq, i would guess dbol might give you another 2 lbs of lean mass at 25 mg ED for 5 weeks -- after water weight loss
e) you dont need dbol on this cycle if you havent already figured that out, i think for a first timeer considering your bf and weight -- i dont know your height -- you will make wonderful gains already and should not use > 1 g gear a week on a first cycle ..

NFG

 

[MadCow1]

Re: Mad Cow

Could you post what you think a well planned/tapered d-bol only cycle would look like? (including post cycle therapy)

If using dbol alone and never using roids before I wound run a pyramid (no flames - keep reading). Pyramids are not the most efficient way to use steroids but utilizing one with dbol will give you some quick feedback on how your body is likely to respond to future cycles and dosage amounts. For instance many can gain great on 15-20mg's yet lots of guys advocate 30mg+ for newbs. A pyramid will allow you to find your sweet spot where you can gain well without using an excess of steroid. Using that for future reference, if you were able to gain well on 20mg of dbol alone, I'd say that 300mg of test or deca would also work well for you where some people might need 500mg of test to see good results. I'm of the conservative school where I like to make solid steady progress - if you are the meathead type that needs to have 25lbs. on your frame yesterday than just start at 30mg and seek some therapy as you probably have some issues.

A pyramid allows you to slowly ratchet up the dosage until you are at the point where good progress is being made. I found that I didn't need more than 20mg ED to see very solid results - 25mg worked better and 30mg was a bit of a waste for me.

Anyway so that would be the beginning -

Start with 15mg or 20mg depending upon your size (under 180 go with 15). Wait for 7 days and see the response. If needed up it another 5mg. Increases can be made every 5 days till you hone in. If you aren't seeing any results by 30mg ED then your roids are fake or you are doing everything possible wrong as dbol is relatively strong and I haven't met any newbie that didn't gain well on that dosage. I'd imagine 20-25mg will be the right spot for most guys.

Now that clomid is out (it wasn't used in the old days nor have I ever used it with a dbol cycle) this changes my traditional taper a bit.

lets say using 25mg and then coming down to zero without clomid:

25,20,20,20,20,15,15,15,15,10,10,10,10,5,5,5,0,5,0,5

From 10mg and on I'd dose it all in the AM. Basically, most of the water would be gone by the 5mg point and strength would stay the same. I'd run 4-6 weeks with no problems and little losses afterward even out to 6 months off. With experience you can customize it - shorter cycles had shorter tapers etc..

With clomid that obviously changes things a bit. I haven't done any experimentation (did enough before and was happy with my results). Most guys seem to drop from 30mg or 25mg and lose a significant amount. I'd taper to at least 15mg slowly with all morning dosings. Maybe down to 10mg. Then begin clomid. To be honest, if I was to run the cycle now - I'd probably use the above and then do clomid afterward. 5 days isn't crippling your gains or recovery and HPTA should be beginning to come back or let's say be less supressed as the amounts in your system are decreased to a point where your body isn't always at max levels. I've just never seen anybody have a problem with this method yet everybody on EF with their 30mg ED to clomid seems to really suffer.

Obviously training volume is paired down post cycle and core lifts are focused on until recovery is near complete (4 weeks generally for me). Assistance work should be light or focused on core weakness areas that were targeted during the cycle. I could write forever on that.

My thoughts anyway.

 

[caiza]

madcow1 whats your fav brand of d-bol?