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Damage to new collider forces 2-month halt

fistfullofsteel

Well-known member
By ALEXANDER G. HIGGINS, Associated Press Writer
2 hours, 43 minutes ago



GENEVA - The world's largest atom smasher — which was launched with great fanfare earlier this month — has been damaged worse than previously thought and will be out of commission for at least two months, its operators said Saturday.

Experts have gone into 17-mile (27-kilometer) circular tunnel housing the Large Hadron Collider under the Swiss-French border to examine the damage that halted operations about 36 hours after its Sept. 10 startup, said James Gillies, spokesman for CERN, the European Organization for Nuclear Research.

"It's too early to say precisely what happened, but it seems to be a faulty electrical connection between two magnets that stopped superconducting, melted and led to a mechanical failure and let the helium out," Gillies told The Associated Press.

Gillies said the sector that was damaged will have to be warmed up well above the absolute zero temperature used for operations so that repairs can be made — a time-consuming process.

"A number of magnets raised their temperature by around 100 degrees," Gillies said. "We have now to warm up the whole sector in a controlled manner before we can actually go in and repair it."

The $10 billion particle collider, in the design and construction stages for more than two decades, is the world's largest atom smasher. It fires beams of protons from the nuclei of atoms around the tunnels at nearly the speed of light.

It then causes the protons to collide, revealing how the tiniest particles were first created after the "big bang," which many theorize was the massive explosion that formed the stars, planets and everything.

Gillies said such failures occur frequently in particle accelerators, but it was made more complicated in this case because the Large Hadron Collider operates at near absolute zero, colder than outer space, for maximum efficiency.

"When they happen in our other accelerators, it's a matter of a couple of days to fix them," Gillies said. "But because this is a superconducting machine and you've got long warmup and cool-down periods, it means we're going to be off for a couple of months."

He said it would take "several weeks minimum" to warm up the sector.

"Then we can fix it," Gillies said. "Then we cool it down again."

CERN announced Thursday that it had shut down the collider a week ago after a successful startup that had beams of protons circling in both clockwise and counterclockwise directions in the collider.

It was at first thought the failure of an electrical transformer that handles part of the cooling was the problem, CERN said. That transformer was replaced last weekend and the machine was lowered back to operating temperature to prepare for a resumption of operations.

But then more inspections were needed and it was determined that the problem was worse than initially thought, said Gillies.

The CERN experiments with the particle collider hope to reveal more about "dark matter," antimatter and possibly hidden dimensions of space and time. They could also find evidence of a hypothetical particle — the Higgs boson — which is sometimes called the "God particle" because it is believed to give mass to all other particles, and thus to matter that makes up the universe.

Smaller colliders have been used for decades to study the makeup of the atom. Scientists once thought protons and neutrons were the smallest components of an atom's nucleus, but experiments have shown that protons and neutrons are made of quarks and gluons and that there are other forces and particles.

The LHC provides much greater power than earlier colliders.

Its start came over the objections of some who feared the collision of protons could eventually imperil the Earth by creating micro black holes — subatomic versions of collapsed stars whose gravity is so strong they can suck in planets and other stars.

Just say no to getting sucked into a blackhole :D
 
a higher power is telling them to knock it off!! how crazy would it be if they kept having set backs and finally got to "smash" a atom on 12/21/2012 bum bum BUUUUUUM.
 
they really are going to blow the worlld up arent they?
 
Just normal operations now.

It was really sad how news of this new collider showed so many people's inability to distinguish fantasy from reality.

Imagine how things must've been when NASA first started launching...



:cow:
 
Just normal operations now.

It was really sad how news of this new collider showed so many people's inability to distinguish fantasy from reality.

Imagine how things must've been when NASA first started launching...



:cow:

We should ask Smurfy... she was around back then....
 
We should ask Smurfy... she was around back then....

Ouch that is ruff.
What a complete failure, now how much more money are they going to waste?
 
What a complete failure, now how much more money are they going to waste?


Welcome to the real world.

Shit doesn't always work perfectly.

You should go back to living in a cave if you don't want to move forward with the rest of mankind. We'll try not to bother you too much.



:cow:
 
Welcome to the real world.

Shit doesn't always work perfectly.

You should go back to living in a cave if you don't want to move forward with the rest of mankind. We'll try not to bother you too much.



:cow:

I never said it does work perfectly! I don't live in a cave either, I think it is funny how much money they have wasted that was my comment if you don't think it is a waste of money then send them some of yours and we will not bother you about it...
How is the UN treating you?
LOL
 
I never said it does work perfectly! I don't live in a cave either, I think it is funny how much money they have wasted that was my comment if you don't think it is a waste of money then send them some of yours and we will not bother you about it...
How is the UN treating you?
LOL


Enjoying posting on the internet? Your life and the world you live in revolves around those who have "wasted money" in science.




:cow:
 
Clearly this is an electrical engineer's fault. Or probably an electrical contractor. In theory it worked right, but it wasnt applied right.

I bet they used catia to design this thing.
 
I never said it does work perfectly! I don't live in a cave either, I think it is funny how much money they have wasted that was my comment if you don't think it is a waste of money then send them some of yours and we will not bother you about it...
How is the UN treating you?
LOL

Was there any US investment in this project?

I didn't think there was.
 
Enjoying posting on the internet? Your life and the world you live in revolves around those who have "wasted money" in science.




:cow:

I don't consider Al Gores work a waste of time. And it was the US Army that developed the internet.
 
Was there any US investment in this project?

I didn't think there was.

$531 Million dollars from the US at last count.
 
I don't consider Al Gores work a waste of time. And it was the US Army that developed the internet.


Okay...?

The US Army developed the atomic bomb, too. That had nothing to do with Oppie's role in physics, right? Or Feynman's? Rabi's? Compton's?

I don't follow the Gore comment. I was assuming you knew the consequences of the field of HEP and weren't concerned with media propaganda.



:cow:
 
Okay...?

The US Army developed the atomic bomb, too. That had nothing to do with Oppie's role in physics, right? Or Feynman's? Rabi's? Compton's?

I don't follow the Gore comment. I was assuming you knew the consequences of the field of HEP and weren't concerned with media propaganda.



:cow:

None of those guys contributed Samoth! It was the govt, duh..... LOL, I suppose the Challenger disaster investigation wasnt headed by a physicist either...... LOL @ who the govt turns to in order to solve problems.... :rolleyes:
 
Clearly this is an electrical engineer's fault. Or probably an electrical contractor. In theory it worked right, but it wasnt applied right.

I bet they used catia to design this thing.

WTF?

It's you Mechanical Engineers that work on the Cryogenics, which is why the transformer probably failed. Besides, it's a European Consortium that built it, ever seen NATO Sea Sparrow? The most worthless weapons system ever built. Unwieldly, incompatible parts and software, because no one country wanted to yield a subsystem to another.
 
Okay...?

The US Army developed the atomic bomb, too. That had nothing to do with Oppie's role in physics, right? Or Feynman's? Rabi's? Compton's?

I don't follow the Gore comment. I was assuming you knew the consequences of the field of HEP and weren't concerned with media propaganda.



:cow:

Umm no that just saved the lives of thousands if not millions of people. So I guess to you in your glass house that is no big deal.
The Gore comment was a joke. Guess it was too low for you to understand.
So tell me since you are such a scientist or preveyor of scietific research, what significant developments have occured from the collider in Waxahachi Texas, you know that nice one that was estimated to cost $4.4B (yes billion) then was upgraded to $12B what was the great accomplishment of that?
 
Apprehensive how? In that you don't think the accelerator will find it?


I don't see it being the holy grail that many expect it to be. I think it will raise even more questions if evidence of it is found.

Don't get me wrong, it's a huge step. It's just the hinting that it will solve the problems in unification theories that I'm doubtful of.



:cow:
 
I don't see it being the holy grail that many expect it to be. I think it will raise even more questions if evidence of it is found.

Don't get me wrong, it's a huge step. It's just the hinting that it will solve the problems in unification theories that I'm doubtful of.



:cow:

Doesn't every discovery raise more questions? That's the best part of discovery :)
 
WTF?

It's you Mechanical Engineers that work on the Cryogenics, which is why the transformer probably failed. Besides, it's a European Consortium that built it, ever seen NATO Sea Sparrow? The most worthless weapons system ever built. Unwieldly, incompatible parts and software, because no one country wanted to yield a subsystem to another.

It would be the management. People design what they're told - they weren't the architects for the idea.
 
Umm no that just saved the lives of thousands if not millions of people. So I guess to you in your glass house that is no big deal.
The Gore comment was a joke. Guess it was too low for you to understand.
So tell me since you are such a scientist or preveyor of scietific research, what significant developments have occured from the collider in Waxahachi Texas, you know that nice one that was estimated to cost $4.4B (yes billion) then was upgraded to $12B what was the great accomplishment of that?


All accelerators cost billions. That's the going cost, and not unique to yours in Texas. Same with observatories or launching stuff into space.

I haven't followed any Texas accelerators. To find what they have contributed, one would need to reference the accelerator name, researchers and universities affiliated with it, then search the HEP journals. It's not like this kind of stuff makes newspapers or internet headlines (unless, of course, there's mass hysteria of being eaten by extradimensional dragons from black holes pwn3d.)

Dude, we're pushing way beyond sci-fi and star trek nowadays. There's no longer any such thing as single huge breakthroughs. No one's gonna wake up and see headlines of a Dyson spere being completed around our sun.



:cow:
 
Doesn't every discovery raise more questions? That's the best part of discovery :)


Exactly!

I just don't see how it's gonna connect the standard model and GR. It seems too far detatched from gravitational theories, which are what seem to be the problem. Maybe it is, though. I dunno.



:cow:
 
All accelerators cost billions. That's the going cost, and not unique to yours in Texas. Same with observatories or launching stuff into space.

I haven't followed any Texas accelerators. To find what they have contributed, one would need to reference the accelerator name, researchers and universities affiliated with it, then search the HEP journals. It's not like this kind of stuff makes newspapers or internet headlines (unless, of course, there's mass hysteria of being eaten by extradimensional dragons from black holes pwn3d.)

Dude, we're pushing way beyond sci-fi and star trek nowadays. There's no longer any such thing as single huge breakthroughs. No one's gonna wake up and see headlines of a Dyson spere being completed around our sun.




:cow:

The Texas collider was never completed thanks to one of the best presidents we ever had Bill Clinton!
 
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