Cycle Review

[xmalice]

Hey I'm looking to get some second opinions on my next cycle. Before I give you the skinny on the cycle let me give you my stats. First of all this will be the 14th cycle I have ever done though nearly every one I have done has always been a bulking cycle so this is my first true "cutting" cycle. I was in a bad accident several years ago and I was laid up for over a year due to my injuries and I lost a ton of muscle mass and gained a ton of fat while I was laid up. I have since lost 80 lbs. and I have been killing myself in the gym for almost two years now trying to get back in shape. I have done several cycles of Tren, Sust and dbol. I am really wanting to get the fat off so I can begin to "see" the results of all of my hard work. I am 5'9" and currently 232 lbs. Unfortunately I'm not 232 lbs. of solid muscle (as I used to be) and I have a lot of fat mass around the middle to loose, which to date has proven to be VERY difficult. I have been using Tren Ace because it's my understanding it can help quite a bit with fat loss and we all know how great it is for muscle building. My diet is very clean, a good mix of lean meats and veggies, all organic and nothing processsed. Here is the cycle I'm considering my next time around, I'm on PCT right now from my last cycle.

Weeks 1-4 60mg of dbol ED, taken in 20mg doses 3 times per day.
Weeks 1-12 100mg of Tren Ace EOD
Weeks 1-12 250mg of Test Cyp EOD
Weeks 1-2, 4-6, 8-10 80mcg of Clen ED
Weeks 1-12 75mg Proviron ED taken in 25mg doses 3 times per day
Weeks 1-2 50mcg T3 taken in 2 25mcg doses per day
Weeks 3-4 75mcg T3 taken in 3 25mcg doses per day
Weeks 5-7 100mcg T3 taken in 2 50mcg doses per day
Weeks 8-9 75mcg T3 taken in 3 25mcg doses per day
Weeks 9-10 50mcg T3 taken in 2 25mcg doses per day
Weeks 10-12 25mcg T3 taken in 1 dose per day.
Weeks 1-12 1mg of Arimidex ED to make sure I don't run into any Estrogen related side effects. Though this will be my first time using Proviron and I'm not sure how much it actually cuts down on Estrogen so this may be overkill and I may drop it down to .5mg per day of the Arimidex. What do you guys think?
I have Nolvadex, Clomid, Arimidex, and plenty of HCG on hand for PCT. I'm probably going to go with Nolvadex ED and 500iu of HCG EOD for my PCT. I also have bromocriptin on hand in case the progesterone sides kick in from the Tren Ace but I have yet to have ever needed it and this would be my 5th cycle using Tren Ace. I had also considered either using a very low dose of Proviron or Dbol to "bridge the gap" between cycles and try and keep as much of my gains as possible. I've heard this is a good way to go but I've never actually done it myself. Any opinions on this would be appreciated.

Thanks!!!

 

[OldSchoolLifter]

Hey I'm looking to get some second opinions on my next cycle. Before I give you the skinny on the cycle let me give you my stats. First of all this will be the 14th cycle I have ever done though nearly every one I have done has always been a bulking cycle so this is my first true "cutting" cycle. I was in a bad accident several years ago and I was laid up for over a year due to my injuries and I lost a ton of muscle mass and gained a ton of fat while I was laid up. I have since lost 80 lbs. and I have been killing myself in the gym for almost two years now trying to get back in shape. I have done several cycles of Tren, Sust and dbol. I am really wanting to get the fat off so I can begin to "see" the results of all of my hard work. I am 5'9" and currently 232 lbs. Unfortunately I'm not 232 lbs. of solid muscle (as I used to be) and I have a lot of fat mass around the middle to loose, which to date has proven to be VERY difficult. I have been using Tren Ace because it's my understanding it can help quite a bit with fat loss and we all know how great it is for muscle building. My diet is very clean, a good mix of lean meats and veggies, all organic and nothing processsed. Here is the cycle I'm considering my next time around, I'm on PCT right now from my last cycle.

Weeks 1-4 60mg of dbol ED, taken in 20mg doses 3 times per day.
Weeks 1-12 100mg of Tren Ace EOD
Weeks 1-12 250mg of Test Cyp EOD
Weeks 1-2, 4-6, 8-10 80mcg of Clen ED
Weeks 1-12 75mg Proviron ED taken in 25mg doses 3 times per day
Weeks 1-2 50mcg T3 taken in 2 25mcg doses per day
Weeks 3-4 75mcg T3 taken in 3 25mcg doses per day
Weeks 5-7 100mcg T3 taken in 2 50mcg doses per day
Weeks 8-9 75mcg T3 taken in 3 25mcg doses per day
Weeks 9-10 50mcg T3 taken in 2 25mcg doses per day
Weeks 10-12 25mcg T3 taken in 1 dose per day.
Weeks 1-12 1mg of Arimidex ED to make sure I don't run into any Estrogen related side effects. Though this will be my first time using Proviron and I'm not sure how much it actually cuts down on Estrogen so this may be overkill and I may drop it down to .5mg per day of the Arimidex. What do you guys think?
I have Nolvadex, Clomid, Arimidex, and plenty of HCG on hand for PCT. I'm probably going to go with Nolvadex ED and 500iu of HCG EOD for my PCT. I also have bromocriptin on hand in case the progesterone sides kick in from the Tren Ace but I have yet to have ever needed it and this would be my 5th cycle using Tren Ace. I had also considered either using a very low dose of Proviron or Dbol to "bridge the gap" between cycles and try and keep as much of my gains as possible. I've heard this is a good way to go but I've never actually done it myself. Any opinions on this would be appreciated.

Thanks!!!

Okay before I tear into this cycle:

I don't know where to begin with this honestly, If your body fat is high Dont use AAS, keep plugging away at your diet and cardio, maybe implement just some rounds of clen. Cutting cycles with aas aren't designed to necessarily burn fat their used to maintain an anabolic state while on calorie restricted diets, so you don't lose muscle.

As for the cycle, why do you have dbol in there if you are "cutting" yes you can reduce the bloat caused by dbol with a suicidal AI like Aromasin @ 12.5mg EOD But that wouldn't be my choice in the oral for this cycle.

Another Thing that strikes me, is the use of tren ace which is fast acting like prop, but then your test base is Cyp which is a slow acting ester like enanthate. Whats going to happen you ask? SHUT DOWN! that ace is going to kick in after about the first week, and that cyp wont be in full swing until week 4-5, And whats with the cyp EOD 2x times weekly will suffice.

If your going to use Short Estered Tren, run it along side short estered test like PROP to avoid the unnecessary shut down and adverse effects.

Your Clen protocol is fine, but try to taper it, 50 60 80 100 100 100 100 until your 2 weeks is over, then repeat the same process on your next bout.

Provirion is actually an AAS it does hinder estro to some degree, but is more used for hardening, and muscle fullness, another great side effect of provirion is increased sex drive, it also helps to free more usable testosterone making your test in retrospect more effective.

I dont have much experience with T3 so I can affirmatively advise you their, but from observation best results are obtained while used along side clen, and not solo.

Drop the arimidex, but keep it on hand in case of any gyno flare ups which you shouldn't encounter if you run aromasin eod @ 12.5mg

Use HCG while ON cycle not during PCT - using while on will make your boys atrophy less if not at all, and will also make pct easier, but when used on pct will actually LOWER LH and be counter productive to your natural recovery process. Clomid and aromasin while on PCT will be far more beneficial in restarting production than Nolva and HCG Keep nolva on hand for gyno symptoms as with the arimidex, but clomid is far superior in restarting LH

If your dead set on cycling, I would do the following

1-12 Prop 100mg/eod
1-12 Mast 100mg/eod
1-5 Winstrol 50mg/ed
6-12 Anavar 50-70mg/ed
1-12 Provirion 50mg/ed
1-15 Aromasin 12.5mg/EOD
1-12 500 iu HCG/wk 2 shots of 250 iu

PCT:
13 100mg clomid/ed
14 100mg clomid/ed
15 75mg clomid/ed
16 50mg clomid/ed

run your clen and t3 as planned.

But really, Id just run some solo bouts of Clen & t3 and see where that gets you.

also you can interchange the mast with tren ace @ 100mg/eod or all three, but you say you have had 14 cycles, but the lack of experience shown in your post shows different.

Hope this helps, This is just my objective opinion.

 

[TheN1ghtmare21]

Shoot me a pm and we can get you straightended out if youd like bro

 

[OldSchoolLifter]

Shoot me a pm and we can get you straightended out if youd like bro

very cool

 

[OldSchoolLifter]

Okay before I tear into this cycle:

I don't know where to begin with this honestly, If your body fat is high Dont use AAS, keep plugging away at your diet and cardio, maybe implement just some rounds of clen. Cutting cycles with aas aren't designed to necessarily burn fat their used to maintain an anabolic state while on calorie restricted diets, so you don't lose muscle.

As for the cycle, why do you have dbol in there if you are "cutting" yes you can reduce the bloat caused by dbol with a suicidal AI like Aromasin @ 12.5mg EOD But that wouldn't be my choice in the oral for this cycle.

Another Thing that strikes me, is the use of tren ace which is fast acting like prop, but then your test base is Cyp which is a slow acting ester like enanthate. Whats going to happen you ask? SHUT DOWN! that ace is going to kick in after about the first week, and that cyp wont be in full swing until week 4-5, And whats with the cyp EOD 2x times weekly will suffice.

If your going to use Short Estered Tren, run it along side short estered test like PROP to avoid the unnecessary shut down and adverse effects.

Your Clen protocol is fine, but try to taper it, 50 60 80 100 100 100 100 until your 2 weeks is over, then repeat the same process on your next bout.

Provirion is actually an AAS it does hinder estro to some degree, but is more used for hardening, and muscle fullness, another great side effect of provirion is increased sex drive, it also helps to free more usable testosterone making your test in retrospect more effective.

I dont have much experience with T3 so I can affirmatively advise you their, but from observation best results are obtained while used along side clen, and not solo.

Drop the arimidex, but keep it on hand in case of any gyno flare ups which you shouldn't encounter if you run aromasin eod @ 12.5mg

Use HCG while ON cycle not during PCT - using while on will make your boys atrophy less if not at all, and will also make pct easier, but when used on pct will actually LOWER LH and be counter productive to your natural recovery process. Clomid and aromasin while on PCT will be far more beneficial in restarting production than Nolva and HCG Keep nolva on hand for gyno symptoms as with the arimidex, but clomid is far superior in restarting LH

If your dead set on cycling, I would do the following

1-12 Prop 100mg/eod
1-12 Mast 100mg/eod
1-5 Winstrol 50mg/ed
6-12 Anavar 50-70mg/ed
1-12 Provirion 50mg/ed
1-15 Aromasin 12.5mg/EOD
1-12 500 iu HCG/wk 2 shots of 250 iu

PCT:
13 100mg clomid/ed
14 100mg clomid/ed
15 75mg clomid/ed
16 50mg clomid/ed

run your clen and t3 as planned.

But really, Id just run some solo bouts of Clen & t3 and see where that gets you.

also you can interchange the mast with tren ace @ 100mg/eod or all three, but you say you have had 14 cycles, but the lack of experience shown in your post shows different.

Hope this helps, This is just my objective opinion.

wow surprised no one was objective to my answer

 

[TheN1ghtmare21]

wow surprised no one was objective to my answer

What do you mean bro? Im still waitin on that pm

 

[OldSchoolLifter]

What do you mean bro? Im still waitin on that pm

I dont know! lol Some people may not agree with my view on pct, and his want to use AAS

Ill send you a PM if you like! you have peptides and alike right?

 

[TheN1ghtmare21]

^ Oh nvm I thought you were upset that nobody answered your question!

 

[xmalice]

Okay before I tear into this cycle:

I don't know where to begin with this honestly, If your body fat is high Dont use AAS, keep plugging away at your diet and cardio, maybe implement just some rounds of clen. Cutting cycles with aas aren't designed to necessarily burn fat their used to maintain an anabolic state while on calorie restricted diets, so you don't lose muscle.

As for the cycle, why do you have dbol in there if you are "cutting" yes you can reduce the bloat caused by dbol with a suicidal AI like Aromasin @ 12.5mg EOD But that wouldn't be my choice in the oral for this cycle.

Another Thing that strikes me, is the use of tren ace which is fast acting like prop, but then your test base is Cyp which is a slow acting ester like enanthate. Whats going to happen you ask? SHUT DOWN! that ace is going to kick in after about the first week, and that cyp wont be in full swing until week 4-5, And whats with the cyp EOD 2x times weekly will suffice.

If your going to use Short Estered Tren, run it along side short estered test like PROP to avoid the unnecessary shut down and adverse effects.

Your Clen protocol is fine, but try to taper it, 50 60 80 100 100 100 100 until your 2 weeks is over, then repeat the same process on your next bout.

Provirion is actually an AAS it does hinder estro to some degree, but is more used for hardening, and muscle fullness, another great side effect of provirion is increased sex drive, it also helps to free more usable testosterone making your test in retrospect more effective.

I dont have much experience with T3 so I can affirmatively advise you their, but from observation best results are obtained while used along side clen, and not solo.

Drop the arimidex, but keep it on hand in case of any gyno flare ups which you shouldn't encounter if you run aromasin eod @ 12.5mg

Use HCG while ON cycle not during PCT - using while on will make your boys atrophy less if not at all, and will also make pct easier, but when used on pct will actually LOWER LH and be counter productive to your natural recovery process. Clomid and aromasin while on PCT will be far more beneficial in restarting production than Nolva and HCG Keep nolva on hand for gyno symptoms as with the arimidex, but clomid is far superior in restarting LH

If your dead set on cycling, I would do the following

1-12 Prop 100mg/eod
1-12 Mast 100mg/eod
1-5 Winstrol 50mg/ed
6-12 Anavar 50-70mg/ed
1-12 Provirion 50mg/ed
1-15 Aromasin 12.5mg/EOD
1-12 500 iu HCG/wk 2 shots of 250 iu

PCT:
13 100mg clomid/ed
14 100mg clomid/ed
15 75mg clomid/ed
16 50mg clomid/ed

run your clen and t3 as planned.

But really, Id just run some solo bouts of Clen & t3 and see where that gets you.

also you can interchange the mast with tren ace @ 100mg/eod or all three, but you say you have had 14 cycles, but the lack of experience shown in your post shows different.

Hope this helps, This is just my objective opinion.

OldSchool: I appreciate you taking the time to give me some feedback! As far as the dbol goes I was including it because it's the only oral I have any experience with, I have always responded well to it and it's so much cheaper than Anavar. Truth be told the orals mostly scare the crap out of me because of the effects they can have on the liver. I have "kickstarted" nearly every cycle I have ever done with dbol (mainly because, as you pointed out, I have always used longer estered testosterones like test cyp and sust250) and I guess out of habit I was planning on doing the same thing. I understand what you are saying about going with test prop instead of cyp and I guess I really didn't think this through very well which is why I was wanting second opinions, again, much appreciated. The reason I was going to do 200mg of test cyp EOD was because that puts me at about 800mg of test per week and that has traditionally been what works best for me mg wise. Admittedly, this would be the first time I would have pinned it that frequently as I have traditionally pinned it every third day. To be frank I'm not sure with the long estered test like test cyp where that would actually put me when pinning it EOD as far as how much of it I would be getting at any given time which is why I posted what I was considering doing out here. I know with the quicker acting esters it's pretty simple to figure out because they stay in the body for a much shorter period of time. I wasn't sure how 200mg of test cyp EOD would work out for me. I'm thinking that it would put me at about 800mg of test per week (which I have done in the past with great results) but I don't know if it would build upon itself because of the slow release and if I would end up getting a much higher dose after a while as a result. Again, that's why I was asking for second opinions.

I have actually done 14 cycles in the past but they were all pretty simple stacks like dbol, sust250, deca and other similar cycles until my last few where I began to include tren ace, obviously not alongside deca because of progesterone.

As far as HCG goes I have never used it on cycle, though I have heard about doing so and can clearly see the benefit. I have used it many times in my PCT and I have had good success with it. I will follow your advice and use it during my cycle and not for PCT this time and see what happens. I knew about it lowering LH and even though it can/does I have had success with it for PCT. I'll try your way and see how it goes. I've sort of been a creature of habit thus far.

I actually get full blood work done at the beginning and end of each cycle so I know for sure when I have recovered fully and also get my liver & kidney values checked as well as lipids and all of the normal testing done. The only problem I have ever run into was some elevated liver values (which is why orals scare me) and a high red blood cell count. FYI, the lowest I have ever seen my testosterone immediately after a cycle was 232 and after PCT (of the same cycle) I was back up to an 860 (I'm 34 so that's a descent number for me) so even with the HCG in my PCT program I was recovering quite nicely.

My intent with the Proviron was to get something DHT based in there (something new for me) so I'm taking advantage of as many types of AAS as possible, hoping for a more synergistic effect. BTW, I realized that it's an AAS. Mentioning that it lowered estrogen was not me thinking that it was an AE it was simply me saying I realize that it does have an anti-estrogen effect because it lowers conversion of testosterone to estrogen. I was pointing this out because I didn't know if 1mg of Arimidex was going to be overkill because of that and I don't want to take more of anything than is actually necessary. From what I have read Proviron is supposed to bind to SHBG very well thus freeing up more of the test that I pin to be used because more of it will be "free testosterone" and this is what interested me in it. I was originally thinking of pinning masteron but I have a very cheap source for Proviron and I know it's much more gentle on the liver than most orals.

I fully get what you are saying as far as running AAS for weight loss and I agree with your logic of just running T3 and Clen to shed the fat. My problem is I have gained back a lot of muscle mass since my accident and I just hate the thought of losing the gains (it was a lot of hard work) by going so catabolic while just running T3 and Clen and doing a crap load of cardio. If I'm honest I guess I've been so frustrated over going through such a setback after my accident I really have an "I want it all and I want it now" mentality. I realize from past experience it's very difficult to build muscle mass and lose fat at the same time. My logic is more muscle mass = a higher metabolic rate even at rest so in the end if I can at least keep the muscle mass or add a little more while shedding some of the fat I'll be better off and happier because I'm not wasting away in the meantime. I've read a lot of information that says tren and test can both (as well as Proviron) have a lipolysis effect on adipose tissue. Tren apparently also has a great effect on nutrition partitioning thus allowing you to build or at least maintain FFM while on a reduced calorie diet, which I obviously am. I'm actually right now only consuming around 1700-2200 calories per day (the higher number being on workout days) and believe it or not I still saw great results from my last cycle. Granted my results were not as good as back in the day before my accident when I was consuming around 5,000 calories per day (while on AAS) but they were still very good and I think the Tren Ace had a lot to do with it.

One thing I don't understand about the cycle you laid out for me is combining Masteron and Proviron. Don't they both do the same thing? As far as I know they are both DHT based, both can lower estrogen and progesterone and both bind well to SHBG thus freeing up more test as free test to be used. Why would I want or need both of them? Is there a bigger benefit to risk of side effects if I combine them?

As far as the winny goes I'm honestly a little scared of it because I have read study after study that says it can have a very negative effect on the heart and it's supposed to be very efficient at causing cardiac hypertrophy. I have also heard from some close friends that they have had serious joint issues when running winny and after my accident I've had enough problems with that already so I will probably not be running this in any of my cycles, at least not yet. I know it's famous for cutting cycles and I can clearly see the benefit of using it in one, but I'm just not ready for it yet.

I'll use my clomid and Aromasin for PCT as you suggested and see if it works out better for me. Thanks again for your response, I appreciate your advice and I'll give some of it a try.

I mentioned in my original post that I was considering using a very low dose of either Proviron or Dbol to "bridge the gap" between cycles to hang on to as much as my gains as possible. Have you ever done this and if you did how did it work out for you?

 

[TheN1ghtmare21]

If you are going to bridge I might use Sarm S1 instead!