China spending their $$$ on infrastructure, not stupid entitlements.

[canadianhitman]

About a week ago, China put into service their new high-speed (200mph) rail service linking Shanghai with Beijing. They were able to complete the 820 mile high-speed system in 3 years. And it's only the beginning; there are plans to expand the high speed rail system to include all their key economic hub cities.

This past Thursday, China completed construction of the world's longest bridge, the 26 mile Jiaozhou Bay bridge.

There are no talks of spending hundreds of billions on ridiculous entitlements that can't possibly be sustained over the long term, and that would starve important building programs like these of funding. It's as if they watched how the USA fucked up their prosperity, learned from it, and are proceeding accordingly.

Put that in your pipes and smoke it, libtard fucks.

 

[canadianhitman]

Oh, and before the first libtard chimes in about how life sucks for Chinese people because of the lack of entitlements, lack of opportunity, blah blah blah...let me say that NO, it sure doesn't suck for those who work hard AND smart:

-China now has almost one million millionaires. The Hurun Wealth Report's new rich list says China has created 960,000 millionaires as of this year. That's an increase of 135,000 from the 825,000 millionaires Hurun reported just two years ago

-The average age of the Chinese millionaire is only 39 years old - 15 years younger than those in the U.S. and Europe.

-30 percent of Chinese millionaires are women (earned in BUSINESS in the vast majority of cases, not by divorcing and getting half)


Fuck Clinton, who should have been paying down your debt, pouring money into US infrastructure, and spending on R&D, ect when you guys were flush with money.

Fuck Obama for looking to spend what you don't have, and in all the wrong places to boot.

 

[binö]

shovel ready jobs

 

[calveless wonder]

Oh, and before the first libtard chimes in about how life sucks for Chinese people because of the lack of entitlements, lack of opportunity, blah blah blah...let me say that NO, it sure doesn't suck for those who work hard AND smart:

-China now has almost one million millionaires. The Hurun Wealth Report's new rich list says China has created 960,000 millionaires as of this year. That's an increase of 135,000 from the 825,000 millionaires Hurun reported just two years ago

-The average age of the Chinese millionaire is only 39 years old - 15 years younger than those in the U.S. and Europe.

-30 percent of Chinese millionaires are women (earned in BUSINESS in the vast majority of cases, not by divorcing and getting half)


Fuck Clinton, who should have been paying down your debt, pouring money into US infrastructure, and spending on R&D, ect when you guys were flush with money.

Fuck Obama for looking to spend what you don't have, and in all the wrong places to boot.

have you been to china?

do you understand the lack of economic parity that exists?

Do those stats state how many of those millionaires are foreign?

My bet is that most of those millionaires are a mix of transplanted foreigners and their chinese partners.

You see, in China, in order to do business there you MUST have someone who is Chinese be a partner in the business. Many times, they have no real active role in the business. Other times, once they figure out what you're doing, they'll screw the foreign business over and just replicate the business model once they understand it. They're not good at CREATING or improving it however.

There is no real entrepreneurial culture in China, which is why it's being flooded with foreigners (apparently, Israeli's have created a huge presence there according to my friends who have been living there).

The useless stats you are using present no indication of the general quality of life of the average chinese person.


There's plenty of opportunity....


if you're foreign and know chinese, or are a chinese person already with money. I'm willing to bet a lot of the chinese millionaires were pretty close to the "millionaire" line already

 

[calveless wonder]

The infrastructural aspect is out of necessity. There's so many people, and owning a car is a huge liability because the traffic is outrageous all the time. That is the reason for the bicycle culture of China. They're just catching up now. The US addressed a lot of these needs (for the most part) a long time ago.

Of course they're not focusing on entitlements, because these are obviously glaring issues.

that said, entitlements are stupid.

 

[canadianhitman]

The useless stats you are using present no indication of the general quality of life of the average chinese person.

If you're average, how ballin' a life should you have, really?

This isn't about the average person though...it's about investing wisely for the future when you are flush with cash, and that there is still opportunity in a country that does so rather than going hog-wild on entitlements.

The US addressed a lot of these needs (for the most part) a long time ago.

I've travelled in the US enough to know that they haven't nearly addressed their shitty transportation system.

 

[calveless wonder]

If you're average, how ballin' a life should you have, really?

This isn't about the average person though...it's about investing wisely for the future when you are flush with cash, and that there is still opportunity in a country that does so rather than going hog-wild on entitlements.

yes but how do you get to that point?

In the US, people can go from virtually nothing to being worth millions.

Those opportunities do not present them within the social and economic hierarchy in China.

 

[canadianhitman]

yes but how do you get to that point?

In the US, people can go from virtually nothing to being worth millions.

Those opportunities do not present them within the social and economic hierarchy in China.

I'm guessing a guy in China with one really good idea can go from sketchpad to production faster than I could, given that it's going to be manufactured there anyways.

 

[lartinos]

BBC News - Chinese chicken farmers ruffle Zambian feathers

 

[canadianhitman]

Good add, lartinos; China acquiring agricultural land on the cheap in Africa with some of that surplus cash is another example of how they are wisely investing in their future. They don't have to worry about a Zimbabwe-style land-grab against their farmers either; their army would crush the perpetrator's forces mercilessly in no time flat.

 

[calveless wonder]

Good add, lartinos; China acquiring agricultural land on the cheap in Africa with some of that surplus cash is another example of how they are wisely investing in their future. They don't have to worry about a Zimbabwe-style land-grab against their farmers either; their army would crush the perpetrator's forces mercilessly in no time flat.

As we sat together outside the tiny two-room house they share with their teenage son, I asked why the family had made this epic journey.
"Simple," Mr Pan told me with a gentle smile, "because it is so much easier to make money here in Africa than back home in China."

"At my age in China I can't do any serious work," Mr Pan said. "Here I don't feel old, I can still do something."

that doesn't reinforce your point, you do realize that right?

 

[canadianhitman]

As we sat together outside the tiny two-room house they share with their teenage son, I asked why the family had made this epic journey.
"Simple," Mr Pan told me with a gentle smile, "because it is so much easier to make money here in Africa than back home in China."

"At my age in China I can't do any serious work," Mr Pan said. "Here I don't feel old, I can still do something."

that doesn't reinforce your point, you do realize that right?

Mr. Pan will probably have a whole bunch of bliques doing the farming for him in no time flat.

 

[puddlemonkey]

libs give me lulz

 

[ledhead]

Oh, and before the first libtard chimes in about how life sucks for Chinese people because of the lack of entitlements, lack of opportunity, blah blah blah...let me say that NO, it sure doesn't suck for those who work hard AND smart:

-China now has almost one million millionaires. The Hurun Wealth Report's new rich list says China has created 960,000 millionaires as of this year. That's an increase of 135,000 from the 825,000 millionaires Hurun reported just two years ago

-The average age of the Chinese millionaire is only 39 years old - 15 years younger than those in the U.S. and Europe.

-30 percent of Chinese millionaires are women (earned in BUSINESS in the vast majority of cases, not by divorcing and getting half)


Fuck Clinton, who should have been paying down your debt, pouring money into US infrastructure, and spending on R&D, ect when you guys were flush with money.

Fuck Obama for looking to spend what you don't have, and in all the wrong places to boot.

You're right about Clinton to a degree and totally right about Obama.

However, you're not looking into the big picture with China. I'm with you about not spending on entitlements. Remember every dollar government spends no matter on what, requires a dollar of taxation, no matter what form of goverment it is. Therefore, they have to get the money from some where to spend on their infrastructure projects. Even if they have a surplus. I don't know what the tax brackets are in China, that would be helpful to know. Then you could make a good estimation about their economy's REAL INCOME. Which is a sign of a booming economy. The last I checked the average Chinese "per capita income" was 2,500 a year (American dollars). Which is not really something to brag about.

As for the million-millionaires their fiscal policies created, sounds good on paper. However, considering they have 1.5 billion people, I'm not really impressed. CW made a interesting point about "parity," I'm not quite sure what context he is putting that into. But parity is relevant in places like China, considering the majority of their people are, well.... serfs....

The last time I checked (I could be wrong) the GDP was growing 10% a year in China. Again, it sounds good on paper, but with all their people its nothing really to get excited about. Furthermore, 10% annual GDP growth is not healthy because they're are teetering with the bubble bursting. Which I think did already did happen somewhat. What China is doing right now is good, but they should have been doing this a long time ago. They're trying to make up for lost time. Too late, too little, to rectify the situation.
They took our debt, which they're are going to get stiffed. We took Europes debt after WWI and got stiffed, which is one of the reasons America went into the Great Depression. Prior to the GD the GDP was growing 7% a year in America with only 250-280 million people. Don't be too impressed with China yet.... Wait and see what happens in the next few years.....IMO, I think they played themselves....

 

[calveless wonder]

You're right about Clinton to a degree and totally right about Obama.

However, you're not looking into the big picture with China. I'm with you about not spending on entitlements. Remember every dollar government spends no matter on what, requires a dollar of taxation, no matter what form of goverment it is. Therefore, they have to get the money from some where to spend on their infrastructure projects. Even if they have a surplus. I don't know what the tax brackets are in China, that would be helpful to know. Then you could make a good estimation about their economy's REAL INCOME. Which is a sign of a booming economy. The last I checked the average Chinese "per capita income" was 2,500 a year (American dollars). Which is not really something to brag about.

As for the million-millionaires their fiscal policies created, sounds good on paper. However, considering they have 1.5 billion people, I'm not really impressed. CW made a interesting point about "parity," I'm not quite sure what context he is putting that into. But parity is relevant in places like China, considering the majority of their people are, well.... serfs....

The last time I checked (I could be wrong) the GDP was growing 10% a year in China. Again, it sounds good on paper, but with all their people its nothing really to get excited about. Furthermore, 10% annual GDP growth is not healthy because they're are teetering with the bubble bursting. Which I think did already did happen somewhat. What China is doing right now is good, but they should have been doing this a long time ago. They're trying to make up for lost time. Too late, too little, to rectify the situation.
They took our debt, which they're are going to get stiffed. We took Europes debt after WWI and got stiffed, which is one of the reasons America went into the Great Depression. Prior to the GD the GDP was growing 7% a year in America with only 250-280 million people. Don't be too impressed with China yet.... Wait and see what happens in the next few years.....IMO, I think they played themselves....

you and i are talking about the same thing. that's where i was going with that.

and basically, i agree with everything you stated (except the part about WWI and european debt. i can't comment one way or another. i assumed that was due to our overreliance on credit with a lack of banking/lending regulations. But i'm not well versed enough in that to dispute what you're saying)

 

[mrplunkey]

As someone who has traveled to China, hosted guests here and does a fair amount of business in China, here are my observations:

1) There are three classes in China. Workers have virtually nothing, but they are getting more over time. Their quality of life will continue to improve. The second class is entrepreneurial and well-educated. They are typically doctors or engineers who have broken-out of the system and are doing things on their own. The third class is the politically connected. Their ties alone get them almost anything they want. They aren't as smart as the true entrepreneurs and they are hard to do business with because they want a lot of cash up front in exchange for their connections, which may or may not materialize.

2) China most definitely does spend a lot on infrastructure these days. Shanghai roads are larger, nicer and better build than our own. Cameras are everywhere. And if you get in an area that hasn't been modernized yet, it's very rough.

3) China's biggest weakness is its government. Right now they are doing no-brainer projects like building major roads and public transportation between population centers. If they'll slowly back out of the situation and let the entrepreneurs take over, they'll be fine. But instead, they're going to attribute some of their success to the government itself, which will only feed it and make it larger.

4) China's second biggest weakness is the upcoming uprising of its people. It won't be a violent revolution, but instead a soft one. What will do it is outside cultural influences showing people how much better they could/should live. Eventually they'll start voting themselves benefits just like we did in the US, but with 2+ billion people, they'll bankrupt themselves even faster than we have.

Between now and China's setbacks, we (the US) will have crashed well before then. Good times!

 

[ledhead]

you and i are talking about the same thing. that's where i was going with that.

and basically, i agree with everything you stated (except the part about WWI and european debt. i can't comment one way or another. i assumed that was due to our overreliance on credit with a lack of banking/lending regulations. But i'm not well versed enough in that to dispute what you're saying)

Yeah, you're pretty much assuming right. Prior to WWI the US national debt was I think 1.3 billion. After, the war it ballooned to 23 or 24 billion, half of that was lent to the ally countries. However, we never saw the cash. At first the US was receiving payments but then were stiffed. Part of it has to do with a crazy tarriff Hoover passed (Smoot-Hawley). Which was a huge tax on imports, in return other countries implemented retaliatory tarrifs and refused to pay their debt back to the US.

The point I'm trying to make is, by China taking our debt (dont know how much, but it is a lot) they put themselves in a precarious situation. They probably know they're not really going to get paid, so they took the debt because they export a lot of their goods to the US. History is relevant to deal with the present and the future, so i would not be surprised if the US places a similar tax on imports in the near future. Which would be bad economic policy. However, imo the US has China by the balls because whether people agree or not, if the US economy faulters the world's economy falls. The reason is too many countries have in invested their money in the US, and count on us for other things.

Im just speculating what could/should happen... Bump for Plunkey's imput....

 

[Sub-Zero]

no surprise there that the chinese are spending their money on railroads

 

[cuthroat]

Interesting read...would read again.

 

[EnderJE]

As someone who has traveled to China, hosted guests here and does a fair amount of business in China, here are my observations:

1) There are three classes in China. Workers have virtually nothing, but they are getting more over time. Their quality of life will continue to improve. The second class is entrepreneurial and well-educated. They are typically doctors or engineers who have broken-out of the system and are doing things on their own. The third class is the politically connected. Their ties alone get them almost anything they want. They aren't as smart as the true entrepreneurs and they are hard to do business with because they want a lot of cash up front in exchange for their connections, which may or may not materialize.

2) China most definitely does spend a lot on infrastructure these days. Shanghai roads are larger, nicer and better build than our own. Cameras are everywhere. And if you get in an area that hasn't been modernized yet, it's very rough.

3) China's biggest weakness is its government. Right now they are doing no-brainer projects like building major roads and public transportation between population centers. If they'll slowly back out of the situation and let the entrepreneurs take over, they'll be fine. But instead, they're going to attribute some of their success to the government itself, which will only feed it and make it larger.

4) China's second biggest weakness is the upcoming uprising of its people. It won't be a violent revolution, but instead a soft one. What will do it is outside cultural influences showing people how much better they could/should live. Eventually they'll start voting themselves benefits just like we did in the US, but with 2+ billion people, they'll bankrupt themselves even faster than we have.

Between now and China's setbacks, we (the US) will have crashed well before then. Good times!

The only other thing that I would say about #4 is that I could see them do that because of the massive differences between the two places. Entitlements in the US or Canada or Europe are not quite the same as the ones in places like China, the Phillipines, or Nepal. There is no social net there. Unless the direction is to let those people die, they require a baseline.

However, as always, is that the fear will be "what is the baseline"? For example, I think that in the first world, they have alot more then the baseline covered in the social programs (based on my brother's previous career as a social worker).

Again, I really like the "Everything Is Obvious" book for a means to solve this problem rather the scream out "fuck libs" or "fuck cons" solutions. The intent would be to find local representations of populations and try different things and recognize that a solution that works for one town might work for a similar town but not all of China.

 

[EnderJE]

I'm guessing a guy in China with one really good idea can go from sketchpad to production faster than I could, given that it's going to be manufactured there anyways.

Then you have never actually been to China. It would completely depend on "the guy".

 

[calveless wonder]

Then you have never actually been to China. It would completely depend on "the guy".

he likes to make assumptions on china by looking at a few skewed numbers and reading a couple of articles

 

[EnderJE]

he likes to make assumptions on china by looking at a few skewed numbers and reading a couple of articles

He should go. It's a nice place with nice people.

 

[nimbus]

one thing i'll say about the US is we definitely under-invest in our infrastructure relative to other countries, and not because we don't need it

 

[nimbus]

About a week ago, China put into service their new high-speed (200mph) rail service linking Shanghai with Beijing. They were able to complete the 820 mile high-speed system in 3 years. And it's only the beginning; there are plans to expand the high speed rail system to include all their key economic hub cities.

This past Thursday, China completed construction of the world's longest bridge, the 26 mile Jiaozhou Bay bridge.

There are no talks of spending hundreds of billions on ridiculous entitlements that can't possibly be sustained over the long term, and that would starve important building programs like these of funding. It's as if they watched how the USA fucked up their prosperity, learned from it, and are proceeding accordingly.

Put that in your pipes and smoke it, libtard fucks.

why are you so mad? is it because you need to the US to stay strong and protect your weak ass country?

 

[EnderJE]

why are you so mad? is it because you need to the US to stay strong and protect your weak ass country?

If he was spouting anti-gay comments, then I'd think he's a mo. Given that he's spouting any lib comments....

 

[b0und]

China will crash, harder than any economy has ever crashed before.

Oh, and their 200mph trains can only go 150mph.

Gary Shilling knows more about China than you:

Why China?s Heading for a Hard Landing, Part 1: A. Gary Shilling - Bloomberg













b0und (told you so)

 

[canadianhitman]

why are you so mad? is it because you need to the US to stay strong and protect your weak ass country?

You need to stay solvent to keep buying our oil. It's more convenient to run it down a pipe to you than have China dock its supertankers on the BC coast for fill-ups.

 

[canadianhitman]

Lotsa butthurt libs in this thread.

 

[nimbus]

You need to stay solvent to keep buying our oil. It's more convenient to run it down a pipe to you than have China dock its supertankers on the BC coast for fill-ups.

lol that's actually a pretty good point

 

[canadianhitman]

lol that's actually a pretty good point

Yup...we don't want you in financial trouble, because we're not about to let the USA run a tab for our oil...we know you aren't 'good for it' anymore.

 

[nimbus]

Yup...we don't want you in financial trouble, because we're not about to let the USA run a tab for our oil...we know you aren't 'good for it' anymore.

if it ever came to that we'd invade your sorry country and take all the oil we please

 

[calveless wonder]

Lotsa butthurt libs in this thread.

we're libs because we disagree with your flawed statistics and realize you have very little actual knowledge of what takes place in china?


Yeah, that makes perfect sense.

 

[canadianhitman]

if it ever came to that we'd invade your sorry country and take all the oil we please

In nearly a decade you can't even flush out a ragtag bunch of talibanis...who you kidding?

90% of your army would die trying invade Fort Mac in the winter in the first 6 hours of fighting from the cold alone.

 

[canadianhitman]

we're libs because we disagree with your flawed statistics and realize you have very little actual knowledge of what takes place in china?


Yeah, that makes perfect sense.

I had fun just throwing them out there the way Pick3 does his Barry propaganda.

 

[EnderJE]

In nearly a decade you can't even flush out a ragtag bunch of talibanis...who you kidding?

90% of your army would die trying invade Fort Mac in the winter in the first 6 hours of fighting from the cold alone.

Yeah, but the Taliban have guns. I'm afraid that it's those are more effective then Canadian snowballs and prayers.

 

[EnderJE]

On a separate note, Fort Mac is nice in winter.

 

[nimbus]

In nearly a decade you can't even flush out a ragtag bunch of talibanis...who you kidding?

90% of your army would die trying invade Fort Mac in the winter in the first 6 hours of fighting from the cold alone.

nice, so y'all can go hide in mountain caves while we help ourselves to sweet sweet oil

 

[mrplunkey]

The only other thing that I would say about #4 is that I could see them do that because of the massive differences between the two places. Entitlements in the US or Canada or Europe are not quite the same as the ones in places like China, the Phillipines, or Nepal. There is no social net there. Unless the direction is to let those people die, they require a baseline.

However, as always, is that the fear will be "what is the baseline"? For example, I think that in the first world, they have alot more then the baseline covered in the social programs (based on my brother's previous career as a social worker).

Again, I really like the "Everything Is Obvious" book for a means to solve this problem rather the scream out "fuck libs" or "fuck cons" solutions. The intent would be to find local representations of populations and try different things and recognize that a solution that works for one town might work for a similar town but not all of China.

The idea of local solutions was exactly what the US founders had in mind. The plan was to have a loose, restrained federal government that could kick-in for large things (i.e. invasion defense) or state-to-state disputes (i.e. restraining trade). Then the states would be idea incubators that addressed the needs of their own local populations.

Since then, we've had a federal takeover of essentially everything. They either directly control it or at least indirectly control it with the massive amounts of money they can withdraw if the states don't comply.

 

[EnderJE]

The idea of local solutions was exactly what the US founders had in mind. The plan was to have a loose, restrained federal government that could kick-in for large things (i.e. invasion defense) or state-to-state disputes (i.e. restraining trade). Then the states would be idea incubators that addressed the needs of their own local populations.

Since then, we've had a federal takeover of essentially everything. They either directly control it or at least indirectly control it with the massive amounts of money they can withdraw if the states don't comply.

That's rationale. Who are we kidding? They'll never go for it.

Fuck libs / cons!

 

[mrplunkey]

That's rationale. Who are we kidding? They'll never go for it.

Fuck libs / cons!

The problem is political conservatives get dumped into the same bucket as social conservative ones.

 

[musclemom]

Not to be snarky or anything but China has approximately the same land mass as the U.S., with 4x the population. The U.S. has about 4x the billionaires and about 3x the millionaires that China does.

If that's the figure you want to use to measure for success of something, anyway.

I completely agree that the U.S. public transportation system is abysmal. Blame Henry Ford.

 

[canadianhitman]

I completely agree that the U.S. public transportation system is abysmal. Blame Henry Ford.

There's nothing wrong with having a car culture...just be sure to provide more attractive options that are more efficient as well. There are too many large cities in the US that either have too small a subway system, or none at all, and the railways are so antiquated it's embarassing. There's no excuse for not having any high-speed train service between major cities. The link the Chinese just built is 820 miles...you could link NYC to Chicago by equaling it. You could also link Boston to NYC, NYC to Philly, and Philly to Washington DC by builing less than 500 miles of track. That'd be a heck of a start to a US high-speed rail system. There was plenty of money for that project during the flush Clinton years...too bad Bubba the lib spent it in ways where you now have nothing to show for all those billions.

 

[EnderJE]

The problem is political conservatives get dumped into the same bucket as social conservative ones.

I dont' think of it as lib vs cons anymore. I think of it as rationals vs the crazies.

The crazies can't seem to have an objective conversation about something.

 

[EnderJE]

There's nothing wrong with having a car culture...just be sure to provide more attractive options that are more efficient as well. There are too many large cities in the US that either have too small a subway system, or none at all, and the railways are so antiquated it's embarassing. There's no excuse for not having any high-speed train service between major cities. The link the Chinese just built is 820 miles...you could link NYC to Chicago by equaling it. You could also link Boston to NYC, NYC to Philly, and Philly to Washington DC by builing less than 500 miles of track. That'd be a heck of a start to a US high-speed rail system. There was plenty of money for that project during the flush Clinton years...too bad Bubba the lib spent it in ways where you now have nothing to show for all those billions.

You mean other then the war? 'Cause as I recall he tried to spend it on other things, but they were rejected by the others.

The challenge with a large project is that you need foresight to see it.

My sense is that people may not have that vision or see it as a pipe dream.

 

[mrplunkey]

I dont' think of it as lib vs cons anymore. I think of it as rationals vs the crazies.

The crazies can't seem to have an objective conversation about something.

The debate we should be having in the US is the role of government. There are people who see the government as a solution to a broad set of challenges and people who see the government as a necessary evil. I'm obviously biased toward the latter view because of a two fundamental principles:

1) Governments can't make decisions that are as good or timely as individuals. It isn't that they don't mean well, but no central planning can compete with the push-and-pull of millions of people making billions of small-scale economic decisions.

2) Governments still have to be implemented by people, so relationships, bias and ultimately full-blown corruption is inevitable.

 

[canadianhitman]

The challenge with a large project is that you need foresight to see it.

My sense is that people may not have that vision or see it as a pipe dream.

I don't want to believe that the country that put a man on the moon doesn't have vision/foresight anymore. Just need to put the right people in charge to 1) fix the economy and 2) not squander the money when times are good again

 

[EnderJE]

I don't want to believe that the country that put a man on the moon doesn't have vision/foresight anymore. Just need to put the right people in charge to 1) fix the economy and 2) not squander the money when times are good again

Foresight generally comes from a central planned / controlled environment. We've established that a centrally planned environment doesn't work out well.

 

[mrplunkey]

Foresight generally comes from a central planned / controlled environment. We've established that a centrally planned environment doesn't work out well.

We could always do something dramatic like leave the money in the hands of the people who've already made it (thus establishing a proven track record) and see if they can figure-out where to invest it next.

 

[EnderJE]

We could always do something dramatic like leave the money in the hands of the people who've already made it (thus establishing a proven track record) and see if they can figure-out where to invest it next.

The only fear with that approach is how it can result in robber barrons or cause another financial meltdown with risky financial instruments.

I completely understand that the stance is a knee jerk reaction to a few bad people, but given the recent outcome, I'm guessing that you would agree that people would be gunshy for it. However, if we're talking about manufacturing or something else of that nature (vs the IMF or something like that), then it would be a different story.

 

[mrplunkey]

The only fear with that approach is how it can result in robber barrons or cause another financial meltdown with risky financial instruments.

I completely understand that the stance is a knee jerk reaction to a few bad people, but given the recent outcome, I'm guessing that you would agree that people would be gunshy for it. However, if we're talking about manufacturing or something else of that nature (vs the IMF or something like that), then it would be a different story.

We do have a new set of robber barons emerging. But they are coming from the political, not the merchant class. What people don't recognize is that in some ways we're reverting back to what we had in England -- a noble class.

And as far as risky financial instruments go, our government has already done that with Fannie and Freddie. Been there, done that and even gotten the T-shirt.

 

[ismaele00]

China can spend $ on infrastructure, with the money they save from stupid things like freedom of speech (press freedom), minimum social services, public health, pubic education, religious freedom... 60% of their population living with less than $250 per month (with prices around the 85% of the US prices)...

 

[ismaele00]

Why do you give so much importance to the GDP of a country? It means NOTHING.

I'd prefer to have a high GDP per capita. Look Norway, Finalnd or Sweden. Can you compare Norway with China? Can you compare the States or any EU country with Norway?
Norway has the 30th largest economy on the world...

China is the 2nd largest economy. And what? As thatbloke said:

inequal distribution of income,
soaring inflation,
underpaid wages,
low average income rate,
high levels of hidden unemployment,
high levels of poverty
average low education level
poor healthcare system

 

[mrplunkey]

Why do you give so much importance to the GDP of a country? It means NOTHING.

I'd prefer to have a high GDP per capita. Look Norway, Finalnd or Sweden. Can you compare Norway with China? Can you compare the States or any EU country with Norway?
Norway has the 30th largest economy on the world...

China is the 2nd largest economy. And what? As thatbloke said:

inequal distribution of income,
soaring inflation,
underpaid wages,
low average income rate,
high levels of hidden unemployment,
high levels of poverty
average low education level
poor healthcare system

If you want to fit into the system and be a single cog in a much larger machine, then yes -- a European socialized society is for you.

If you are trying to break out of the mold and want to be an entrepreneur, a European socialized society is among the last places you'd want to be.

It really depends on how you see the world working.

 

[PICK3]

If you want to fit into the system and be a single cog in a much larger machine, then yes -- a European socialized society is for you.

If you are trying to break out of the mold and want to be an entrepreneur, a European socialized society is among the last places you'd want to be.

It really depends on how you see the world working.

Teh European thing

I'm a sheep ... and I want a check

 

[PICK3]

Behind The Wall - Wanna sell something in China? Hire a white guy

 

[ismaele00]

If you want to fit into the system and be a single cog in a much larger machine, then yes -- a European socialized society is for you.

If you are trying to break out of the mold and want to be an entrepreneur, a European socialized society is among the last places you'd want to be.

It really depends on how you see the world working.

I see your point, but let me ask you something.

Which is the idea of become an entrepreneur? Win money and improve your quality of life, isn't it? Yours and your family (friends, country, etc, etc) quality of life.

I see your point, and I know what you are talking about, you are right it depends on how you see the world.

But I don't understand what means "break out of the mold". I don't understand the idea you want to show (it's not a problem with the language).

If I'm right, you prefer work for yourself (even when it's harder) that works for another one (even when sometimes it's better-paid). Am I right?

 

[ismaele00]

Teh European thing

I'm a sheep ... and I want a check

1. According to the U.S. Census Bureau, approximately 43.6 million (14.3%) Americans were living in absolute poverty in 2009, up from 39.8 million (13.2%) in 2008.
2. Most Americans (58.5%) will spend at least one year below the poverty line at some point between ages 25 and 75.

I love being a sheep. I'm sure 43 million of your OWN people (I'm not talking about illegal alliens) would like be a sheep too.

PS: and I tell you this liking the States a lot, but to Caesar what is Caesar's.

 

[mrplunkey]

I see your point, but let me ask you something.

Which is the idea of become an entrepreneur? Win money and improve your quality of life, isn't it? Yours and your family (friends, country, etc, etc) quality of life.

I see your point, and I know what you are talking about, you are right it depends on how you see the world.

But I don't understand what means "break out of the mold". I don't understand the idea you want to show (it's not a problem with the language).

If I'm right, you prefer work for yourself (even when it's harder) that works for another one (even when sometimes it's better-paid). Am I right?

Being an entrepreneur is much more than making money. Making money is just a side effect.

It's about identifying and fulfilling needs by seeing the world a little differently than everyone else. Strangely enough, it's not about risk taking either. Entrepreneurs hedge their bets with their own insight and hard work to make sure they aren't at tremendous risk either.

 

[mrplunkey]

1. According to the U.S. Census Bureau, approximately 43.6 million (14.3%) Americans were living in absolute poverty in 2009, up from 39.8 million (13.2%) in 2008.
2. Most Americans (58.5%) will spend at least one year below the poverty line at some point between ages 25 and 75.

I love being a sheep. I'm sure 43 million of your OWN people (I'm not talking about illegal alliens) would like be a sheep too.

PS: and I tell you this liking the States a lot, but to Caesar what is Caesar's.

What your statistics fail to show is that our "poor" have cell phones, flat-screen TVs and fairly decent automobiles.

 

[-SD-]

lol @ Americas poor being compared to the rest of the worlds poor.

 

[canadianhitman]

lol @ Americas poor being compared to the rest of the worlds poor.

True...other countries don't pamper their poor.