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napsgear
genezapharmateuticals
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RESEARCHSARMSUGFREAKeudomestic
napsgeargenezapharmateuticals domestic-supplypuritysourcelabsRESEARCHSARMSUGFREAKeudomestic

Calling W6, big squat must = knee soreness?

I agree with gspotme, good ideas.

I've found that with almost all my clients esp those with knee problems, that using a wide (PL style) stance, toes out, and sitting back minimizes knee pain. I don't wrap. Used to but that caused more knee pain.

My typical leg routine was as follows when I used to squat, haven't recently because of a lower back issue and outward rotator/sciatic problem, anyway.

Week 1 Sunday heavy day

Squats (parallel or slightly below)

bar x 8
135 x 8
185 x 3
225 x 3
275 x3
315 x 1
365 x 1
405 x 6 - 8
365 x 8 - 10

Leg press

360 x 8
540 x 4
720 x 4
800 x 5 x 10 (10 sec break between sets of 10)

Leg Extn.

one warm up 8 reps

Then the stack for 15, drop the weight by 20% another 8, drop by 30% and rep out.

Hack

one warm up 3 reps

270 x 8 x 2 (feet pretty close together but place very high on the platform) pretty much ass to ankle depth)

About 6 working sets of leg curls (mix of lying, seated and/or standing unilateral) couple of drop sets like extensions.


Week two, the following Sunday

some light warm ups and a couple of sets of 8 - 10 of everything, but light (about 60% of what I use on heavy day).

Burn through the light workout in about 30 minutes.

On the next heavy week I may change the squat routine to:

warm up to 315, then 10 sets of 3 with 30 sec breaks or 10 sets of 2 with 20 sec breaks (speed sets).

Leg presses might be:

warm up then 800 for 25, 15 and 10 reps with 20 sec breaks.

On a 3rd heavy week (6 week later)

I might warm up then one set of 20 with 315 on squats.

Leg press/leg extension superset routine

15 reps each for 6 sets each back and forth (one minute break between supersets) this one is a killer.

So there are plenty of options. If my knees hurt, I back off and drop all the weight by 20% and do a more moderate-heavy day.

Personally, I find that at my age, one can only hit legs, all out blitz once a month. The other workouts are somewhere between light and moderate.

Since I've been using this undulated periodization program, injury aside not related to lifting (stretching no less), I'm moving far more weight now than I did 20 years ago.

Recovery is the key.

Sounds like you (Anya) may have an adductor strain. May want to cut the squats for a few weeks and focus on hacks, leg presses and extensions. Keep the feet close together (12") to minimize adductor involvement.

Having not been able to squat for awhile, I have found that the 15 rep, 6 set superset (press/extension) has worked well. Smoked the quads, but little strain on the back. Finish with hacks at the end, legs being already spent, you won't have to use much weight and load the knees, but always keep the knees behind the toes and toes pointed outward slightly so they follow the feet when you descend.

W6
 
sq1.jpg

This is an example of one of my female clients squatting. Note the positioning. This works best for everyone I've worked with to date (ages 16 - 79).

W6
 
Wilson, you're referring to the pain at my quad/groin tie-in when you say I may have an adducter strain?

12" sounds super close though. Wont that shift me pretty far forward onto my knees? I'm totally willing to try that stance if you feel like it would help.

I train in my dad's home gym which is well equipped except for it lack of leg press and hack squat machines. I have squats, extensions and SLDLs available to me.

Gspotme, thanks for the sound advice. My default form has always been to sit back though. I have thick hammies and big old butt and I'm guessing I've always naturally sat far back because that's where my strength lies. It's only the last 2 months I've been trying to sit forward more to remove some of the load from my (relatively) overdeveloped hammies and buttocks. Maybe this is what reactivated my old knee problems? Moving more load to the knees?

Wilson and/or gstop critique this shortterm recovery plan.

Drop out squats for week, add extensions to maintain quad strength, then return to squatting in my traditional sitting back style. Keep total reps at or above 10.
 
hey anya,

honestly if you're going to drop squats for a week, drop quads period for one leg session. (i know you're cringing) if you were going to recoup for 2+wks, i'd keep quads, but not swap for ext.
Ext can aggravate them more. my swap when knees feel any pain would be

-hack, pushing emph through the heel done with spotter to help you out the sticky given you're using FRM.
-smith front squats, feet slightly farther forward than normal
-parallel lpresses.

IMHO, stick to what you know, if in the pocket "back" always did ya right, by all means girl, roll with that.

let me know what you decide and how it all works for ya,
train hard
~g~
 
"It's only the last 2 months I've been trying to sit forward more to remove some of the load from my (relatively) overdeveloped hammies and buttocks. Maybe this is what reactivated my old knee problems? Moving more load to the knees?"

You just answered your own question.

gspotme is correct. Wouldn't swap with heavy extension because they can be worse than incorrect form when squatting. If you do extensions, I'm assuming this is a commercial leg extn machine? Your knees should be in line with the cam (axis of rotation), some cheaper machines or home made units have the knees in front of the axis of rotation.

If you do extn, limit the range of motion. No full extension at the top or lock outs, and just short of 90 at the bottom (no bouncing or throwing the hips into the movement), and keep the feet from moving during the movement as it is open chain.

The other option would be to take a week off from legs, and start back with a couple of light workouts and prior squatting form. Perhaps add in an NSAID or COX-2 inhibitor for 7 - 10 days along with stretching.

W6
 
CrystalChick said:
Woweeee that looks painful in that pic especially on the knees......
agree,you want to keep your feet facing forward,and please stay away from hack squats.
simple stragedy stretch,do some research on muscle imbalances you will be amaze as of how much overcoming those imbalances can help (ex.tight lats-your body shifts forward,anterior pelvis tilt,posterior pelvic tilt,hip flexors ,adductors,erector spinae,quads,hams,glutes etc)any of those muscles could be tight causing a muscle imbalance leading to your problems,your best bet is to do an assesment on your own and find out what muscles are tight. good luck.
 
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