Boodtest Results In + My New Cycle

[SuperStrong]

So the last cycle I had done was a whole year ago which was:
*Week 1-5 - dbol 50mg, test prop 100mg eod kickstart
*Week 1-15+ - Proviron 40-80mg
*Week 1-15 Test enth 500mg (devided to 250mg mon/thurs)
*Week 1-15 Eq enth 600mg (devided to 300mg mon/thurs)
*Week 1-15 Mast enanthate 400mg (devided to 200mg mon/thurs)
+Few weeks (somewhere between 6-8) of Sarms osta and gw while off-cycle

I didn't take any bloodwork then, but a whole year has passed since that cycle, I would assume I'd have recovered by now, but the bloodwork I just took shows low "normal" end of free testosterone and total testosterone, high high estradiol (almost twice the upper range), and high prolactin (I don't think I ever even touched any aas that should mess with my prolactin levels, never did tren or deca).

The only thing I did aside from last year's cycle and last year's sarms was some sarms about 6-7 weeks ago when I was cutting. I did a Sarms triplestack (S4, osta, gw) as per dylan's article on evolutionary for 8 weeks. Also during those 8 weeks cut, I was on ephedrine hcl and caffeine stack, and also incorporated yohimbine hcl while cutting for fasted cardio. But have been off stims and sarms for 6-7 weeks now, and they say sarms are very easy to recover from and very minimal shutdown if any (did HCGenerate supplement during sarms and after, as well as a few weeks of natural test boosters like EliteFitness Test Stack No 17, tribulus, Ronnie's DAA supp).

Also other flags were high creatinine, high bun/creatinine ratio, high direct T4, and low chloride. Not quite sure yet what those means..

Blood Test Results:
Part 1
Part 2
Part 3

The only thing I really have to compare my testosterone levels with are some saliva tests I did a long time ago for testosterone levels. But the measurements are different (it's in pg/ml) so not sure how to compare that to the blood test ng/dL. For the saliva tests a long time ago I was on the high high range and this was when I was totally natural and never done a cycle before (not even prohormones) and low estrogen but that was back in '06, and then did another saliva test in '09 (but not sure if I was still a virgin to aas then too):

Old Saliva Test Results:
Old Saliva Testosterone Test

Let me know what you guys think of my bloodwork, if there is anything I should watch out for.

I'm thinking of starting a 6 week cycle (long test enth ester so it extends more like a 8 or 9 week due to half life). Also will be first time using Tren.

New Cycle:
*Dbol 1-6
*Test Enth 1-6 (will be frontloading on day 1)
*Tren Ace 1-6
*Proviron 1-7 (conservative dose, probably 25mg)
*Liquid aromasin (and prami on hand just in case)
*HCG 250iu every 4 days week 3-7 (as per primodrial perfomance PCT protocol)
*Natural liver supports (liv52, etc)

PCT:
Week 9-12 Nolvadex
Natural testosterone booster supplements

OFF Cycle recomp:
week 6+ (6-8 weeks) Sarms gw and osta
Albuterol or ephedrine hcl/caffeine
yohimbine hcl/caffeine

Please let me know what you think of cycle as well, and if my bloodwork shows whether or not I'm good to go with the dbol oral. And what's up with the high t4 levels, is that good or bad? High prolactin, bun, etc?? Thanks!

Going to get bloodwork regularly now every time I even consider cycling.

 

[SuperStrong]

Oh an the 6 week cycle was based off recommendation from Elitefitness book here: Steroid Cycles: secrets to design perfect Anabolic Steroid Cycles every time for huge muscle mass

It emphasizes perfect amount of active hormones in the body per day that fits the "anabolic window" and avoiding steroid overlap / oversaturation / and having very stable hormones thus getting max results with least side effects.

Just mentioning this in case anyone was wondering how I came about this 6 week cycle that I'm planning on doing.

 

[Dr.Viking]

Wouldn't worry about the crea bro. You can get values like that just by being a bit dehydrated or eating lot of proteins. But if you want to be sure, be sure to drink a lot, cut down on the protein a couple of days before and redo the kidney function test. Regarding your T4 I wouldn't worry about it. It's just 8 ng/dl over reference range and your TSH is normal.

But the estradiol is way to high to be consider a normal variation, but that you already know, so you will need to get this under control. Regarding the prolactin I think this is due to the relationship between estrogen and prolactin. It's a bit complex, but you can say that high estrogen may promote a slight prolactin elevation BUT inhibit the stimulatory effects of prolactin on milk production. High prolactin on the other hand will decrease estrogen.

I would keep an eye on your lipidprofile though. It's already not optimal now before the cycle and orals have a tendency to make it a lot worse. It is probably nothing that will affect you now, but if you have plans on living a long life it's quiet important.


Anyhow, Good luck with everything.

 

[stevesmi]

I would give it a bit more time before you jumped on juice. the SARM's slightly suppressed you it looks like and you should stay off everything a bit longer to get your levels up more

 

[SuperStrong]

Thanks guys for the great info.

So do you think the low-normal testosterone + high estrogen is from the Sarms cycle that ended 7 weeks ago? I thought Sarms didn't really effect estrogen much though.

I found some formastanzol from last year, and I'll be applying that every now and then to help lower estrogen levels.

How long more do you think I should wait to fully recover / when should I get a new blood test to check?

Thanks

 

[dylangemelli]

Thanks guys for the great info.

So do you think the low-normal testosterone + high estrogen is from the Sarms cycle that ended 7 weeks ago? I thought Sarms didn't really effect estrogen much though.

I found some formastanzol from last year, and I'll be applying that every now and then to help lower estrogen levels.

How long more do you think I should wait to fully recover / when should I get a new blood test to check?

Thanks

the high estrogen is definitely not from the sarms cycle brother... you need to get that down before you run any sort of steroid type cycle... you NEVER want to go into a cycle with elevated estrogen... your just asking for problems... get rid of the forma... get yourself aromasin, dose it 12.5 mg eod and monitor the numbers and go from there...

there could be a multitude of reasons you have elevated estrogen... at this point, thats neither here nor there, the main thing is getting it treated so you can move on and start making more progress...

your pct is very inadequate though... im attaching an article that explains this pct in full detail, all the areas it addresses and why its the best method... i am also giving you a layout... pct is THE MOST important part of your cycle...


The Perfect Post Cycle Therapy (PCT) - Evolutionary.org


PCT


clomid 50/50/25/25 AG-guys.com

nolva 40/20/20/20 AG-guys.com

aromasin 12.5 mg eod AG-guys.com

hcgemerate es Bodybuilding, Need to Build Muscle, Muscle Bodybuilding

n2guard n2bm.com
mk-2866 25 mg day SARMS1.COM - The best Selective androgen receptor modulators

gw-501516 20 mg day SARMS1.COM - The best Selective androgen receptor modulators




USE COUPON CODE DYLAN10 AT NEEDTOBUILDMUSCLE.COM FOR 10% OFF…

 

[SuperStrong]

Hi Dylan,

I was going to start aromasin, but I had a bottle of liquid letro from last year that I decided to start on 2.5mg per day starting today. Reason being is that I noticed that sometime during and after my sarms cycle I started developing a new lump on my left nipple. This is strange as I didn't go on anything except sarms triple stack, and test boosters like hcgenerate, test stack no17, DAA.

Thanks for the PCT advise, will definitely look that over. I will be adding in the other stuff you mentioned like aromasin, etc. But can I just omit the Clomid though and just use Nolvadex without clomid? I was going by Primordial Performance advice to pick one over the other as well as William Llewllyn's article below

"Nolvadex vs Clomid"

by William Llewellyn

I have received a lot of heat lately about my preference for Nolvadex over Clomid, which I hold for all purposes of use (in the bodybuilding world anyway); as an anti-estrogen, an HDL (good) cholesterol-supporting drug, and as a testosterone-stimulating compound. Most people use Nolvadex to combat gynecomastia over Clomid anyway, so that is an easy sell. And for cholesterol, well, most bodybuilders unfortunately pay little attention to this important issue, so by way of disinterest, another easy opinion to discuss. But when it comes to using Nolvadex for increasing endogenous testosterone release, bodybuilders just do not want to hear it. They only seem to want Clomid. I can only guess that this is based on a long rooted misunderstanding of the actions of the two drugs. In this article I would therefore like to discuss the specifics for these two agents, and explain clearly the usefulness of Nolvadex for the specific purpose of increasing testosterone production.

Clomid and Nolvadex

I am not sure how Clomid and Nolvadex became so separated in the minds of bodybuilders. They certainly should not be. Clomid and Nolvadex are both anti-estrogens belonging to the same group of triphenylethylene compounds. They are structurally related and specifically classified as selective estrogen receptor modulators (SERMs) with mixed agonistic and antagonistic properties. This means that in certain tissues they can block the effects of estrogen, by altering the binding capacity of the receptor, while in others they can act as actual estrogens, activating the receptor. In men, both of these drugs act as anti-estrogens in their capacity to oppose the negative feedback of estrogens on the hypothalamus and stimulate the heightened release of GnRH (Gonadotropin Releasing Hormone). LH output by the pituitary will be increased as a result, which in turn can increase the level of testosterone by the testes. Both drugs do this, but for some reason bodybuilders persist in thinking that Clomid is the only drug good at stimulating testosterone. What you will find with a little investigation however is that not only is Nolvadex useful for the same purpose, it should actually be the preferred agent of the two.

Pituitary Sensitivity to GnRH

Studies conducted in the late 1970's at the University of Ghent in Belgium make clear the advantages of using Nolvadex instead of Clomid for increasing testosterone levels (1). Here, researchers looked the effects of Nolvadex and Clomid on the endocrine profiles of normal men, as well as those suffering from low sperm counts (oligospermia). For our purposes, the results of these drugs on hormonally normal men are obviously the most relevant. What was found, just in the early parts of the study, was quite enlightening. Nolvadex, used for 10 days at a dosage of 20mg daily, increased serum testosterone levels to 142% of baseline, which was on par with the effect of 150mg of Clomid daily for the same duration (the testosterone increase was slightly, but not significantly, better for Clomid). We must remember though that this is the effect of three 50mg tablets of Clomid. With the price of both a 50mg Clomid and 20mg Nolvadex typically very similar, we are already seeing a cost vs. results discrepancy forming that strongly favors the Nolvadex side.

But something more interesting is happening. Researchers were also conducting GnRH stimulation tests before and after various points of treatment with Nolvadex and Clomid, and the two drugs had markedly different results. These tests involved infusing patients with 100mcg of GnRH and measuring the output of pituitary LH in response. The focus of this test is to see how sensitive the pituitary is to Gonadotropin Releasing Hormone. The more sensitive the pituitary, the more LH will be released. The tests showed that after ten days of treatment with Nolvadex, pituitary sensitivity to GnRH increased slightly compared to pre-treated values. This is contrast to 10 days of treatment with 150mg Clomid, which was shown to consistently DECREASE pituitary sensitivity to GnRH (more LH was released before treatment). As the study with Nolvadex progresses to 6 weeks, pituitary sensitivity to GnRH was significantly higher than pre-treated or 10-day levels. At this point the same 20mg dosage was also raising testosterone and LH levels to an average of 183% and 172% of base values, respectively, which again is measurably higher than what was noted 10 days into therapy. Within 10 days of treatment Clomid is already exerting an effect that is causing the pituitary to become slightly desensitized to GnRH, while prolonged use of Nolvadex serves only to increase pituitary sensitivity to this hormone. That is not to say Clomid won't increase testosterone if taken for the same 6 week time period. Quite the opposite is true. But we are, however, noticing an advantage in Nolvadex.

The Estrogen Clomid

The above discrepancies are likely explained by differences in the estrogenic nature of the two compounds. The researchers' clearly support this theory when commenting in their paper, "The difference in response might be attributable to the weak intrinsic estrogenic effect of Clomid, which in this study manifested itself by an increase in transcortin and testosterone/estradiol-binding globulin [SHBG] levels; this increase was not observed after tamoxifen treatment". In reviewing other theories later in the paper, such as interference by increased androgen or estrogen levels, they persist in noting that increases in these hormones were similar with both drug treatments, and state that," ?a role of the intrinsic estrogenic activity of Clomid which is practically absent in Tamoxifen seems the most probable explanation".

Although these two are related anti-estrogens, they appear to act very differently at different sites of action. Nolvadex seems to be strongly anti-estrogenic at both the hypothalamus and pituitary, which is in contrast to Clomid, which although a strong anti-estrogen at the hypothalamus, seems to exhibit weak estrogenic activity at the pituitary. To find further support for this we can look at an in-vitro animal study published in the American Journal of Physiology in February 1981 (2). This paper looks at the effects of Clomid and Nolvadex on the GnRH stimulated release of LH from cultured rat pituitary cells. In this paper, it was noted that incubating cells with Clomid had a direct estrogenic effect on cultured pituitary cell sensitivity, exerting a weaker but still significant effect compared to estradiol. Nolvadex on the other hand did not have any significant effect on LH response. Furthermore it mildly blocked the effects of estrogen when both were incubated in the same culture.

Conclusion

To summarize the above research succinctly, Nolvadex is the more purely anti-estrogenic of the two drugs, at least where the HPTA (Hypothalamic-Pituitary-Testicular Axis) is concerned. This fact enables Nolvadex to offer the male bodybuilder certain advantages over Clomid. This is especially true at times when we are looking to restore a balanced HPTA, and would not want to desensitize the pituitary to GnRH. This could perhaps slow recovery to some extent, as the pituitary would require higher amounts of hypothalamic GnRH in the presence of Clomid in order to get the same level of LH stimulation.

Nolvadex also seems preferred from long-term use, for those who find anti-estrogens effective enough at raising testosterone levels to warrant using as anabolics. Here Nolvadex would seem to provide a better and more stable increase in testosterone levels, and likely will offer a similar or greater effect than Clomid for considerably less money. The potential rise in SHBG levels with Clomid, supported by other research (3), is also cause for concern, as this might work to allow for comparably less free active testosterone compared to Nolvadex as well. Ultimately both drugs are effective anti-estrogens for the prevention of gyno and elevation of endogenous testosterone.

 

[dylangemelli]

Hi Dylan,

I was going to start aromasin, but I had a bottle of liquid letro from last year that I decided to start on 2.5mg per day starting today. Reason being is that I noticed that sometime during and after my sarms cycle I started developing a new lump on my left nipple. This is strange as I didn't go on anything except sarms triple stack, and test boosters like hcgenerate, test stack no17, DAA.

Thanks for the PCT advise, will definitely look that over. I will be adding in the other stuff you mentioned like aromasin, etc. But can I just omit the Clomid though and just use Nolvadex without clomid? I was going by Primordial Performance advice to pick one over the other as well as William Llewllyn's article below

primordial performance... enough said brother... not trying to be a smartass but like i said, enough said with them... you "could" pick one but if i was to pick one it would be clomid... i would really run them both but that's completely up to you... the article i attached with the pct gave the reasoning on it... your could go through the internet and probably find hundreds of differing opinions on this but i've had hands on experience with clients, personal, etc... for an extremely long time and using them both is the most effective way...