BF and I thinking about doing it together...

[Becky]

Well, this is probably a switch based on other post I've read. I have been thinking about doing my first AS for a while and now I think I have convenced my bf to do it with me.

We have both been lifting for several year and cannot seem to make any more progress. I am 5'6 130 lbs 15%bf. He is 5'8 162 lbs about 12% bf.

We both would like to start with orals.

Any recommendations for AS and lengh of cycle.

 

[Becky]

Cost is not to much of an issue.

Also, may should be another post but I've heard about test cream?

 

[Arioch]

And are you aware of the potential sides of everything you may consider using? Especially the effect of any nandrolone on him?

 

[Arioch]

Well, I was trying to be polite. When I post here, I consider myself in the company of women, and watch what I say.

I am rather glad someone pointed it out.

Most men will experience some sort of decrease in sex drive, from just a simple decrease, to complete, and I mean complete, shutdown. A lucky few of us do not (gloat, gloat).

A modest amount of test is often stacked with deca for this very reason, and seems to work well.

However, the more you stack, the more sides you have to worry about, and the harder it is to isolate the compound responsible. It is for this reason that stacking for a beginner is a very bad idea. Including the fact that the sides from test and deca generally are induced through different mechanisms, further complicating the issue.

It is pretty hard to go wrong with a small amount of test for a first cycle for a guy. And a modest does cycle like this has the benefit of being very cost effective, which would allow more to be spent on either anti-estrogens for him, just in case, or a superior anabolic for you, like quality anavar.

Why do you want to start with orals? 17aa's direcly damage the liver, and for a man to get anything out of anavar, he has to take quite a bit, and then cost will definitely become an issue.

 

[Arioch]

I personally rarely recommend stanazolol to anyone. Side effects are too random, moreso than with any other AAS in my experience. Plus it is hard on the joints.

First cycle recommendations for a woman:
In order:
Nandrolone Phenylproprionate
Anavar
Test in modest(no more than 50 mg/week) dose. Yes, that is low, but people have their entire lives to increase the dosage.

Men:
Test
Test
Test

 

[Arioch]

Since I am not at my usual location, I am feeling far more expansive on this subject, and will blather some more.

Test+ deca (or tren) is a great cycle. Covers all the bases, really.
However, I am firmly of the opinion that a first cycle should never be stacked. The only reason I did not recommend tren for him is that it has the *potential* for more sides, primarily increased aggression. Many experienced users can still get this side, even if they avoid everything else, even if their first tren cycle occured, say, more than 20 years ago.

Otherwise tren is, IMO, the closest thing to magic that can come out of a vial. Great gains in LBM, no bloat, etc. Other than the aggression, sides are similar to deca, including decreased sex drive for some poor, poor, men.

As to why not orals, aside from the liver damage, they are also not as cost effective, except for methandrostenolone, and I really dislike the sides. When all of this was legal, I still never used it. The water retention followed by loss, and the concurrent decrease in strength with decreased leverage, can cause many to believe that they are losing most of what they gained. The bloat can be dealt with, but the cost of deadling with it is more than the cost of d-bol, as a general rule.

Halo, once again for him only (too androgenic for a women, and if you get the sides, they hit hard and fast). Again, liver toxic, and agression. If you are willing to put up with the agression. Use tren. Easier to find or manufacture, cheaper, and no liver damage.

Andriol - Oral test at an incredible multiple of the cost, with less effect per mg. Why?

Anavar - not cost effective in the doses a man needs, even first cycle.

Eq - Why? Nowhere near the gains from other injectables at similar doses. If you are looking to harden up during your first cycle, you are wasting time, effort, and money, as the gains from the first cycle are usually the best. Do not worry about bringing out your vascularity, or other stupidity on your first cycle. Eat and grow.

For women:
NP - (as above) great choice, short half-life, very anabolic, low androgenic.
Anavar - Far more cost effective for you women. Must be nice to grow from looking at the bottle.
Test - Sides are easy to control if you use an ester with a short half life (proprionate). Cheap, and a lot of bang for your buck.

Others would be as above. Most too androgenic for a woman, especially tren and halo, and, as a general rule, women should avoid these like the plague.

Eq is ok, I suppose, it just does not seem to give the same results mg per mg as other compounds.

 

[Daisy_Girl]

Only problem with NP is can't it be quite hard to find? After much research, I wanted to use NP, but finding it is quite a challenge.

Becky - as a first time for you, I like anavar as a first (for an oral). I'm on week 4 and have gotten good results thus far. And no sides at all. But it is expensive....

 

[Becky]

Thanks for all the info sofar.....keep it coming guys. I guess the reason I wanted to go with orals first is I don't like needs.....

To answer your question Spatterson we get want to cycle at the same time, don't have to be taking the same thing.

By the way what's wrong with the test cream, especially for him? I thought it produced less E. Is is just hard to find? My bf has been looking on the internet and has found a bonch of "clinics" that will write percrepions for it after a local blood test. (and of course a couple hundred $$)

Arioch, you brought up a good point about loss after cycle. What is typical loss after 1st cycle for a man and a woman.

Thanks agaion everyone

 

[magdelana]

Hi Becky, my .02 on the Test cream. What i have heard from people who have used it is that it is very poor for creating the sort of anabolism that bb are interested to have. The amount of T delivered is small and the rate quite slow. Good for someone with abnormal low T levels, but will not give the sort of LBM gains a bb is interested to see.

Becky it is VERY hard to say what is a "typical" LBM loss after cycle. Some lose all, some lose only a bit. Things affected the amount of lost is AAS used, length of cycle, amount of sleep/recovery after cycle, amount/quality of nutrition after cycle, amount/intensity of training after cycle, and age, sex, and general health of user. Can you give some more information about these things i mentioned?

Arioch, a question about TA. My brother ran a cycle of cyp and TA just 8 weeks ago. He was used cyp (the same brand actually) many times but never TA before. This time he started to feel what felt like angina that was rather troubling. when he stopped with the Tren the pain left. He also felt pain above his left teste that some other Tren users told him they felt while on Tren. Have you ever heard of these sides from Tren?

 

[Arioch]

Angina, no. Testicular pain, rarely. My first cycle was the orignal finaject, and that was more than 20 years ago. Never felt a thing.

The lower the dose, the less you will lose, relatively speaking. However, the ones that aromatize more in men, and cause more water retention, will appear to cause more of a post-cycle crash. While a fair amount of weight will be lost, it is generally just water. However, most people panic. The best bet is to use an anti-E throughout the cycle, such as armidex or l-dex.

The test cream produces far less E. And far less T. That is the problem. It is pretty much a waste of time, on a mg per mg basis.

If he searches some more, he can probably get a script for a modest amount of test. The kind that really works. It can be pricey this way, but you do manage to avoid possible legal hassles, which can be even more costly.