best for hair loss?

[krishna]

Never heard of that. Im not doubting you but do you remember where you read that? Your talking about topical spiro right?

Ah yes i forgot about saw palmetto, and i take it to.

I used it once on cycle and my gains stopped almost immediately. I talked to another friend of mine who was using it off cycle, and he got his test levels checked and found out the were practically non-existent. I then spoke with a hair doctor about the treatment, and he said it was highly likely that it was absorbed systemically.

Get nioxin at a salon or online. The salon in walmart will have it (sometimes on clearance). Walmart also has 3 bottles of 5% minoxidil for $20.

 

[Mastagon]

Don't use spiro! There is evidence that it is absorbed systemically. Use 5% minoxidil twice daily. Take Saw Palmetto extract twice daily (320mg). Use nioxin cleanser and scalp treatment as shampoo, and use nizoral every 3rd day instead of the nioxin.

Please provide evidence of this systemical absorbtion. I was under the impression there was none/an inconsequential amount.

 

[krishna]

Please provide evidence of this systemical absorbtion. I was under the impression there was none/an inconsequential amount.

I just gave my reason in the post above yours. Use it if you want. Why would I care if you want to turn into a pussy little girl? Do a google search and I'm sure you can find an "ask a doc" thread where he'll say the same thing. I'm sure that hair sites trying to push it will say that it is not, but try to find an unbiased doctor without an agenda.

 

[FreakMonster]

I used it once on cycle and my gains stopped almost immediately. I talked to another friend of mine who was using it off cycle, and he got his test levels checked and found out the were practically non-existent. I then spoke with a hair doctor about the treatment, and he said it was highly likely that it was absorbed systemically.

Get nioxin at a salon or online. The salon in walmart will have it (sometimes on clearance). Walmart also has 3 bottles of 5% minoxidil for $20.

What about Polysorbate? Is that any good?

 

[Recruit]

I tried the Hair Club for Men about 3 years ago...It looks real and people that don't know you never know...the biggest draw back is that it cost you anywhere from $250-$600 a month depending on what package you choose.

After a couple of years, I decided it wasn't worth it and started shaving my head. Believe it or not, I get more girls flirting with me now than ever...

 

[Mastagon]

I just gave my reason in the post above yours. Use it if you want. Why would I care if you want to turn into a pussy little girl? Do a google search and I'm sure you can find an "ask a doc" thread where he'll say the same thing. I'm sure that hair sites trying to push it will say that it is not, but try to find an unbiased doctor without an agenda.

What you have given me, as you state above, is your "reason" for not using or recommending spiro, and not, as I asked, proof of anything. I'm sure I am not alone in thinking that "your use," "your friend's use," and one "hair doctor's" opinion do not count as substantial evidence towards proving anything about topical spironolactone. Now, if you told me you know 400 people who have used spiro and had the same results as you and your friend, I might be more inclined to believe you. But even then, its still just "word of mouth," which may indicate a possible trend, but is still not indisputable proof.

And while what I've posted below is also not indisputable proof, its still more substantial evidence then 3 people's opinions. So I ask again, do you have any evidence of your claims on spiro?

Experience in the therapy of acne with topical administration of spironolactone as an antiandrogen


The authors report their clinical experience with topical treatment of seborrheic acne with a 5% spironolactone cream in 20 patients, 11 males and 9 females aged 12 to 28 years (average 20.5). Treatment duration, about one month. Treatment proved remarkably effective in that it brought about complete regression of acne in 30%, improvement in 65% of the patients. The drug was always well tolerated, side effects were never observed.

PMID: 2150020 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Topical spironolactone inhibits dihydrotestosterone receptors in human sebaceous glands: an autoradiographic study in subjects with acne vulgaris.

Department of Dermatology, University of Pavia, Italy.

The interaction between spironolactone and dihydrotestosterone (DHT) receptors was evaluated with an autoradiographic technique. The inhibition of DHT receptors by spironolactone was found to be related to the decrease of tritiated DHT granules in the sebaceous glands of the treated site. 6 male patients affected by acne vulgaris entered the study. The acute study was performed by applying to 25 cm2 of the back a cream containing 5% spironolactone under occlusive dressing. The dosage of spironolactone applied was 4 mg/cm2 for 48 h. The long-term study was performed by applying the same amount to the entire back, without occlusion, twice daily for 1 month. Skin biopsies were taken at the end of the treatment, incubated with tritiated DHT and processed for autoradiography. Both the acute and the long-term study revealed a decrease of the autoradiographic granules in the treated site. This effect is related to the binding of spironolactone with dihydrotestosterone receptors in the sebaceous glands. Our study demonstrates that 5% topical spironolactone cream acts as an antiandrogen in human sebaceous glands, competing with DHT receptors and producing a decrease of labelled DHT. At the concentrations used the effect has been only local. No side-effects were recorded during both studies.

PMID: 2972662 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Oral and topical spironolactone therapies in skin androgenization.


The most important clinical studies using spironolactone as an antiandrogen drug either per os or topically are referred. Menstrual disturbances very often occur during SP treatments thus limiting its systemic use. As far as the topical use is concerned SP seems to be highly effective with absence of systemic effects. Local mild side effects were present in a small number of patients.

PMID: 2147469 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Lack of endocrine systemic side effects after topical application of spironolactone in man.


In six healthy male volunteers, the percutaneous absorption of spironolactone was compared with placebo in a double-blind crossover study. The subjects were randomly given either a cream containing 5% spironolactone or placebo to be applied in a randomized sequential way to a well defined skin area equivalent to 55% of body area. During the 72 h following the application of the ointment, blood levels of canrenone, the major metabolite of spironolactone, have been determined. In order to estimate the systemic antiandrogenic effect of spironolactone, plasma levels of 17-alpha-Hydroxy progesterone (17 alpha-OH-P), Testosterone (pT) and non-conjugated 3 alpha-Androstanediol (3 alpha-diol, metabolite of the active androgen 5 alpha-Dihydrotestosterone or DHT) as well as salivary Testosterone (sT) which relate to the free and active plasma testosterone fraction have also been measured. Urinary levels of canrenone have been determined 48 hours after cream application. No changes in any levels of these hormones have been detected and plasma canrenone levels were undetectable during the 72 hours of topical treatment. Topically administered, spironolactone appears to have only a local skin impregnation.

PMID: 3411088 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

 

[g35mann]

What you have given me, as you state above, is your "reason" for not using or recommending spiro, and not, as I asked, proof of anything. I'm sure I am not alone in thinking that "your use," "your friend's use," and one "hair doctor's" opinion do not count as substantial evidence towards proving anything about topical spironolactone. Now, if you told me you know 400 people who have used spiro and had the same results as you and your friend, I might be more inclined to believe you. But even then, its still just "word of mouth," which may indicate a possible trend, but is still not indisputable proof.

And while what I've posted below is also not indisputable proof, its still more substantial evidence then 3 people's opinions. So I ask again, do you have any evidence of your claims on spiro?

Wow, good reads.

 

[tommboy]

wow I might go back to using my spiro since, I stopped before because krishna told me it was absorped systemitically

 

[solidspine]

http://www.medicalhairrestoration.c....aspx?source=smt_search_google&offer=1&info=1

 

[krishna]

That study doesn't report on doing any testing on androgen levels. Just because there were no observable side effects doesn't mean it wasn't absorbed systemically. My friend had no observable side effects, he had no idea until he got his test levels checked. Are you going to be putting the lotion on your head. In most cases, the spiro used for hair treatment is not a lotion, it's a liquid. This study was done on lotion. Look, you guys use it if you want. GOOD LUCK! I wouldn't tell you not to unless I truely believed it was bad news. What do I have to gain by doing that?