Baseball pitching advice

[cm3504jm]

There is a lot of baseball pitchers on this board.

I need some advice.

My 9 y.o. son wants to pitch real bad. Good accuracy but could stand to throw a little harder.

What can he/I do to help him out?

Videos, websites, drills, excersises, etc.

Thank you for any advice. (He's in Fall league now)

 

[M.O.D]

when in doubt ask the goat slayer

 

[HamHock]

Good mechanics is key at that age. Leg drive, 90 degree angle in arm, overhand delivery, fingers down & through the ball at release. Good examples to follow: Roger Clemens, Curt Shilling.

Videos are good, but most of them are on fielding/hitting. Long toss is a good way to develop arm strength without resistance training.

 

[TxCollegeguy]

mechanics, teach him to start stretching really good. At his age overall fitness would do him more good.

just practice some pitching every so often. dont let him get overly wrapped up into it just yet

 

[ciscokid1]

I agree with Tantric, tell him if he really wants to be a pitcher hold off until high school. Save his arm. Tell not to throw curveballs 'til he is older. I learned to throw one around 10 and it was real good so I used it alot, by the time I was a senior in HS my arm constantly hurt and my fastball was topping out around 80 mph where teh previuos two years is was ussually around 85 mph. Then I played in college for 3 years but my arm hurt so bad I couldn't play my final year. So tell him to wait.

Look at the #9 pick in this years draft, Colt Griffin started pitching just this year and his fastball is around 100 mph

 

[manny78]

why dont you make him a knuckle ball expert ? accuracy and technique is everything needed.....

 

[rudedawg]

Rotator cuff exercises for a 9 year old?

I know your son wants to pitch now and that's cool, but almost every guy I played ball with who started pitching that young, had an elbow or shoulder injury before they were out of high school. If you want a long term (high school, college and beyond) career for your son as a pitcher, the best advice I can give is to keep him off the mound until he gets into high school.

The best advice for strengthening a throwing arm is to long toss. I don't know what impact it will have on him at the age of 9, but that's how you strengthen your arm.

When he is ready to pitch, teach him a changeup. A good changeup is more effective than a good breaking ball. Randy Johnson is a dominating pitcher, but over the long term Pedro Martinez and Greg Maddux have been far more effective. Why? They both have superior changeups. Plus, it's far easier on the arm.

I had Tommy John surgery in '99 due to years of throwing curveballs and sliders with no changeup to go with it. This was my first year back after my surgery and I had my best season in years. In our playoff game, I held the best team in the league to 2 earned runs. I threw 110 pitches: 64 fastballs, 34 changeups, 12 breaking balls. I wish I had developed a change when I was in high school.

Your arm is like everything else...... if ya don't use it you lose it. DOT is right on the money about long toss. At age 9 tho I am not sure how much arm strength he is going to be able to build. For the most part I believe being able to throw hard is God given. Of course you can add some strength to that but it is arm "speed" that makes it happen. Mechanics play a huge part in a healthy arm... if mechanics are bad it will be a lifelong pain in the arm..... I know I had bad mechanics..... herky, jerky type. My son is 8 and wants to throw all that bullshit too... curves, sliders, etc..... I told him fastballs and change-ups is all ya need..... hell he isn't even out of coach pitch yet.

Pitching is like real estate... Location, Location, Location!!!!!! Hitting is all timing so if you screw up a hitters timing he is screwed..... that's why you hear people talking about getting a hitter out on his front foot. Best pitch in baseball????



Strike ONE!!! Believe it or not when I was playing ('88 - '95) the average fastball in the big leagues was 85mph.

I don't agree with the not having him pitch philosophy..... that is how he will learn mechanics, game situations, what to throw and were in certain counts etc.....

 

[WarriorPL]

The kid should just keep practicing his pitch, and stick to the fastball. He should practice pitching year round.

I can reach the mid-high 80s one my fastball but my accuracy is just horrible, i can throw strikes but i throw wild pitches way too often, but i am only 16, im sure itll improve, i just recently started learning how to throw curve balls and sinkers,
I hope weight training will give me a faster pitch.

 

[Natymike]

cm-----long toss is the best way to increase velocity IMO. This is what my pitching coach did with us. By the way knew his shit--(Ray Knoblauch, Chucks dad)

Long toss = playing catch from FAR AWAY, start off 10 feet from each other, then back it up 10 feet, keep throwing, 10 more feet.....ect. Back it up as far as you can until he can't get the ball to you. Move it farther back week after week. Pretty soon he should be able to throw the ball a lot farther than he originally did. This is also how the outfielders strengthen their arms

This is the main drill that I was taught in high school. And we were ranked #1 in the Nation for 5A schools, they still are actually.

 

[TxCollegeguy]

Naty That was true until Klein won state back in 98

 

[Natymike]

FUCK OFF TX!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

we had them beat, but we lost to Elkins before we could ever play them. Ok nevermind, we choked. They won state in 99 after I graduated, shows how important I was to the team They have actually been ranked #1 in the Nation ever since I graduated

 

[TxCollegeguy]

Yeah I forgot you went there...lol

Well Chris George is doing ok pitching for KC now...Pretty good to see he finally got called up from AAA

I take it you know the Guzman brothers??I played against them back in little league...Good players but were put alot farther along with the politics their Dad played...


It will be good to see Chris get a good season under his belt. I still remember when they were comparing him to Glavine back in highschool and how he was the "most complete" pitcher since glavine

Too bad KC doesn't have shit for a team. He turned down a Full ride to play at rice but then again for a few Million for a signing bonus being the 31st pick I dont blame it what so ever

98 was Klein's year. Didn't they beat yall in that preseason scrimage?

 

[Natymike]

They destroyed us in a preseason scrimage, they would of owned us if we got to state. It was definately their year.

I heard that K George pitch a game in the majors not too long ago, I'm not sure when, but my friend told me that he got pulled up for one start cause someone was injured.

Unfortunately I know the Ghutzman brothers, you are right on the nose about the politics. Butch--(the dad) moved Steve to Spring so he would get more recognition with Josh Beckett pitching. Steve was a cool guy though, crazy MF.

Phil on the other hand--the older one-, was a complete jackass, so full of himself, he had very few friends because of it. He went to rice and had the worst average on the team, I heard a rumor that he got drafted to the Reds, but thats probably just Butch hyping him up again. Even if you have the best average on the team, its hard to get drafted.

Steve is at Wake Forest last I checked.

http://wakeforestsports.fansonly.com/sports/m-basebl/mtt/ghutzman_stephen00.html

 

[TxCollegeguy]

Yeah Steve was a good guy

I remember when he was 11 or 12 he broke a few fingers in his hand and his dad went complete ape shit as if he would never play again...I felt bad for the kid

Yeah Phil wasn't liked by many people as long as I knew him.

Yeah I couldn't stand our coaches until my Sr year. The end of our Jr year coach eaisly got run off for allegedly sexual discrimination against one of the trainers. We had some good guys but Chris was a damn good pitcher and had a good Catcher with Tony

though Tony isn't shit for hitting I think his catching is awesome. He got drafted 4th round by florida I thought. I hope to see him catching one day in the majors but if he does I hope his hitting has picked up from a few years ago

 

[plifter]

At 9 years old there isn't anything you should other than teach him a good pitching movement. Don't even think of the curveball. Make sure he learns how to get his entire body into the pitch instead of just throwing with all arm. He'll develop on his own.

 

[cm3504jm]

Everyone,

Thanks for all the advice. I appreciate it a lot.

Looks like I'll go with the long toss to strengthen his throwing and his fall league coach is teaching basic pitching mechanics with NO curve stuff whatsoever (Why do all the kids want to throw curves )
It's pretty neat watching and I'm learning myself just for info sake.

He's actually doing squats with me, but with no weights-just going deep and doing it till he burns.Also crunches and lower back extensions. I told him no matter what sport you end up liking, if you have stong legs, abs, and lower back it will make everything else easier and you wont get hurt as much.

Once again, thanks for your help

 

[rudedawg]

cm-----long toss is the best way to increase velocity IMO. This is what my pitching coach did with us. By the way knew his shit--(Ray Knoblauch, Chucks dad)

Long toss = playing catch from FAR AWAY, start off 10 feet from each other, then back it up 10 feet, keep throwing, 10 more feet.....ect. Back it up as far as you can until he can't get the ball to you. Move it farther back week after week. Pretty soon he should be able to throw the ball a lot farther than he originally did. This is also how the outfielders strengthen their arms

Maybe Chuck's dad should teach him to throw short toss.... maybe he wouldn't throw the ball into the stands from 2nd base. )

As for long toss...... actually the best way to do it is to back up like you said but..... when you don't want to have to throw the ball with a lof of arc..... so you start one hopping it and letting the ball go out in front of you instead of up high so you can get it there. Also helps with mechanics because you are throwing the same way as you would normally.

Arm strength and arm speed are 2 different things. Arm strength allows you to throw more. Arm speed allows you to throw faster. There have been a ton of "theories" on how to build up arm speed but the last I checked none added any significant velocity.

 

[HappyScrappy]

best thing you can do is teach him that to throw using his legs and not his arms.
and I don't mean that in any dipshit smartass way - I mean that 90% of the pwer generated from the throw is in the legs and trunk rotation, the arm is just the means to an end, the tip of the delivery.

if he learns to throw this way, then he will last longer and throw harder than most other people he competes against.

I always concentrated on a high leg kick (need flexibility), bend the leg that is planted on the ground.
then once the forward leg comes dow, the arms should be at the release point.
hard to explain, easier to show.

much like golf, pitching is greatly timing - you can have bad mechanics if you are strong and overpower it, but you won't last long that way.
Nolan Ryan is a good example of great timing- not a real big guy, but strong legs and that is where he got his power.
(or course being tall and having that leverage certainly is nice too - randy johnson and ramon martinez come to mind)

for the most part, don't push him and let him do his own thing and he is less likely to burn out.
have fun!

(other good things - throwing a foot ball is good as well - you will see many pros warmming up with a football at the beginning of practices)

 

[rudedawg]

best thing you can do is teach him that to throw using his legs and not his arms.
and I don't mean that in any dipshit smartass way - I mean that 90% of the pwer generated from the throw is in the legs and trunk rotation, the arm is just the means to an end, the tip of the delivery.

if he learns to throw this way, then he will last longer and throw harder than most other people he competes against.

I always concentrated on a high leg kick (need flexibility), bend the leg that is planted on the ground.
then once the forward leg comes dow, the arms should be at the release point.
hard to explain, easier to show.

much like golf, pitching is greatly timing - you can have bad mechanics if you are strong and overpower it, but you won't last long that way.
Nolan Ryan is a good example of great timing- not a real big guy, but strong legs and that is where he got his power.
(or course being tall and having that leverage certainly is nice too - randy johnson and ramon martinez come to mind)

for the most part, don't push him and let him do his own thing and he is less likely to burn out.
have fun!

(other good things - throwing a foot ball is good as well - you will see many pros warmming up with a football at the beginning of practices)

Sorry dude but I am going to disagree on a few points here.

#1 A high leg kick does not equal velocity. Case in point... Rob Nenn throws 100mph and his foot actually hits the ground between picking it up and planting it. Another example is pitchers that use a slide step to speed their time to the plate in order to give their catcher time to throw them out if they try to steal.

#2. No way can you throw with any velocity or accuracy if you are releasing the ball when your plant foot is hitting the ground. Check out this pic of the Big Unit:

or this one from the backside:

Other side of the coin but another lefty Tom Glavine :

Maddux:

The Ryan Express:

As you can see your arm should be up and somewhere close to the L position but not at release point yet. You land and when you do you twist with the hips and drive off of that back leg and get your chest out over your front knee. And speaking of Ryan... dude he was 6'2" 212 lbs. Ramon Martinez is 6'4" and weight 190 or so.

Throwing a football IMO is one of the worst things you can do as a pitcher. Think about it..... when you throw a football your hand is on the side of the ball and it isn't the same angle as when you throw a baseball. When you throw a baseball, your hand should be behind the ball not on the side unless you want to have surgery.

No matter how strong your legs are or how sound your mechanics are the arm is NOT just the means to the end. Without arm SPEED you don't have a chance of throwing a baseball average or above average.

 

[rudedawg]

Thanks DOT.... ummmmmmm the reason I seem to know about this is because I was as herky jerky as they came...... everyone tried to do their little coaching bit on me. I don't even want to post any action shots LOL

 

[ciscokid1]

Rudedawg, good posts. But where did you play, and what makes you so qualified? I'm not being a smartass just intrested in your experience.

 

[HappyScrappy]

heh heh, yeah, wrote that wrong - basically meant you shouldn't be releasing until the foot is down (watch little league kids and you will see a suprising number doing shit like that).

as for leg kick - I was saying for speed - not for getting guys off the base.
you name one dude that doesn't do it, but I'm sure you can name 50 guys that do do it.

and I'm confused, you were in the pros and you never threw a football to warm up? coaches had us doing that all the time - fuck - there is even a fucking upper deck shot of nolan ryan (who I still maintain is little) throwing a football.

anyway, not gonna argue with you, you obviously know moreif you were in the pros - I was just trying to recall what the better pitching coaches used to tell me.

 

[rudedawg]

heh heh, yeah, wrote that wrong - basically meant you shouldn't be releasing until the foot is down (watch little league kids and you will see a suprising number doing shit like that).


as for leg kick - I was saying for speed - not for getting guys off the base.
you name one dude that doesn't do it, but I'm sure you can name 50 guys that do do it.

and I'm confused, you were in the pros and you never threw a football to warm up? coaches had us doing that all the time - fuck - there is even a fucking upper deck shot of nolan ryan (who I still maintain is little) throwing a football.

anyway, not gonna argue with you, you obviously know moreif you were in the pros - I was just trying to recall what the better pitching coaches used to tell me.

True about the kids throwing all different kinds of funky ways.

My point about leg kick is.... you don't gain speed from it..... that's why I brought up the slide step. Guys that do the slide step don't lose any velocity. If they did they wouldn't do it, because throwing quality pitches is always better than giving up a bomb because you are worried about a guy on first base. And that's also why I mentioned Rob Nenn. He doesn't pick his foot up much at all and he throws 100MPH. It's all about where you stop your momentum and rocket it forward. As for naming 50 guys that don't do it..... almost all do it.. especially starters... it is a timing thing and the only time you would be able to do it would be out of the stretch. I am not disagreeing with you that most do it..... I am saying it is NOT where you get 90% of your velocity from.

Never threw a football to warm up. Probably the reason you saw Nolan doing it was because Tom House was the pitching coach for the Rangers and he made throwing a football part of his staffs regime. I don't know how you throw a baseball but if you throw a baseball from the L position and try to throw a football the same way the ball will come out like a floating duck.

As for Nolan being little..... compared to who? Other Big League pitchers? Or people in general? I would bet that he is bigger than 50% of all the big league pitchers right now.