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Bad Depression and Anxiety

liftr486

New member
Ever since coming off all AAS at the end of the summer I have been extremely depressed and anxious. All my bloods since have been normal so they are going to do a repeat one final time on wed. and then if theyre normal again send me to a psych. I had oxycalm and p7 around my house so i decided to start taking it instead of pouring alcohol down my throat. i have been doing 3 sprays per side 3x a day and it has been working good. what does should i do for the p7...it says 2 sprays per forearm but how many times a day?

also, these wont affect testosterone levels, lh, fsh or ne thing like that cuz thats wat theyre testing for....i jus feel like total shit

thanks

ps...also taking cee, trex and sesapure
 
Are you seeing a shrink?

Sometimes you can not fight it and just need the meds,


It is not a big deal but the meds work

I take Xanax for anxiety and panic attacks,

Prozac for depression.

Alcohol makes me very, very depressed, been sober exactly 30 days today.


Alcohol will complicate depression and anxiety.










Cute chick in the avatar
 
I would look at CBT (Cognitive-behavioral therapy).

After many years of AAS use IMHO one of the main sides hardly ever discussed are the Physiological Side Effects of use. CBT has been proven to be very useful tool to assist in this and IMHO far better than using meds.

Wrongun!
 
Here is some info i posted some time ago when i was researching CBT and sides


Physiological Side Effects of AS & CBT

There are many side effects of AS some of which you may have realised some of which you may never. This discussion point / information is not to scare you but to offer advice.
Men taking anabolic steroids run the risk of changes in sexual characteristics as well as changes in reproductive functioning. The following may also be experienced:
a. baldness
b. difficulty urinating
c. enlarged prostate
d. breast development
e. reduced sperm count
f. impotence
g. testicular shrinkage
Women who abuse anabolic steroids may also experience negative effects which can include:
a. facial hair growth
b. changes in or absence of menstrual periods
c. breast reduction
d. deepened tone of voice
e. clitoral enlargement
Side effects which may be common in both sexes include:
a. swollen feet and ankles
b. acne
c. jaundice
d. trembling
e. liver damage
f. halitosis
g. high blood pressure
h. various cancers
i. aching joints and increased joint injuries
j. reduction in HDL cholesterol

But what is not discussed is the possible physiological issues. We have all heard of roid rage but with more and more research being conducted this is the official stance:
Administration of AS may affect behavior. Increased testosterone levels in the blood are associated with masculine behavior, aggressiveness and increased sexual desire. Increased aggressiveness may be beneficial for athletic training, but may also lead to overt violence outside the gym or the track. There are reports of violent, criminal behavior in individuals taking AS. Other side effects of AS are euphoria, confusion, sleeping disorders, pathological anxiety, paranoia, and hallucinations.
Anabolic steroid users may become dependent on the drug, with symptoms of withdrawal after cessation of drug use. The withdrawal symptoms consist of aggressive and violent behavior, mental depression with suicidal behavior, mood changes, and in some cases acute psychosis. At present it is unknown which individuals are particularly at risk. It is likely that great individual differences in responsiveness may exist. Some individuals try to minimize the withdrawal affects by administration of human choriogonadotropins (hCG), in order to enhance endogenous testosterone production. However, it is unknown in how far the hCG administration is successful in ameliorating the withdrawal effects.

I will not say I agree with all the comments above but evidence does show that long term AS can cause distorted thinking (i.e. depression, anxiety etc). There is however a therapy being used by many athletes (due IMHO to increased usage of AS) it is called:
Cognitive-Behavioral Therapy.(CBT)

CBT is a form of psychotherapy that emphasizes the important role of thinking in how we feel and what we do. Cognitive-behavioral therapist teach that when our brains are healthy, it is our thinking that causes us to feel and act the way we do. Therefore, if we are experiencing unwanted feelings and behaviors, it is important to identify the thinking that is causing the feelings / behaviors and to learn how to replace this thinking with thoughts that lead to more desirable reactions.

There are several approaches to cognitive-behavioral therapy, including Rational Emotive Behavior Therapy, Rational Behavior Therapy, Rational Living Therapy, Cognitive Therapy, and Dialectic Behavior Therapy.

However, most cognitive-behavioral therapies have the following characteristics:

1. CBT is based on the Cognitive Model of Emotional Response.
Cognitive-behavioral therapy is based on the scientific fact that our thoughts
cause our feels and behaviors, not external things, like people, situations, and
events. The benefit of this fact is that we can change the way we think to
feel / act better even if the situation has not changed. .
3. A sound therapeutic relationship is necessary for effective therapy, but
not the focus.
Some forms of therapy assume that the main reason people get better in
therapy is because of the positive relationship between the therapist and
client. Cognitive-behavioral therapists believe it is important to have a good,
trusting relationship, but that is not enough. CBT therapists believe that the
client changes when they learn to think differently; therefore, CBT therapists
focus on teaching rational self-counseling skills.
4. CBT is a collaborative effort between the therapist and the client.
Cognitive-behavioral therapist seek to learn what their clients want out of life
(their goals) and then help their clients achieve those goals. The therapist's
role is to listen, teach, and encourage, while the client's roles is to speak,
learn, and implement what they learn.
5. CBT is based on stoic philosophy.
Cognitive-behavioral therapy does not tell people how to feel. However, most
people seeking therapy do not want to feel they way they do. CBT teaches
the benefits of feeling, at worst, calm when confronted with undesirable
situations. It also emphasizes the fact that we have our undesirable situations
whether we are upset about them or not. If we are upset about our problems,
we have two problems -- the problem, and our upset about it. Most sane
people want to have the fewest number of problems possible.

6. CBT uses the Socratic Method.
Cognitive-behavioral therapists want to gain a very good understanding of
their clients concerns. That's why they often ask questions. They also
encourage their clients to ask questions of themselves, like, "How do I
really know that those people are laughing at me?" "Could they be laughing
about something else?"

7. CBT is structured and directive.
Cognitive-behavioral therapists have a specific agenda for each session.
Specific techniques / concepts are taught during each session. CBT
focuses on helping the client achieve the goals they have set. CBT is
directive in that respect. However, CBT therapists do not tell their clients
what to do -- rather, they teach their clients how to do.

8. CBT is based on an educational model.
CBT is based on the scientifically supported assumption that most emotional
and behavioral reactions are learned. Therefore, the goal of therapy is to
help clients unlearn their unwanted reactions and to learn a new way of
reacting. While CBT therapists do not present themselves as "know-it-alls",
the assumption is that if clients knew what the therapist had to teach them,
the clients would not have the emotional / behavioral problems they are
experiencing.

Therefore, CBT has nothing to do with "just talking". People can "just talk"
with anyone.

The educational emphasis of CBT has an additional benefit -- it leads to
long term results. When people understand how and why they are doing
well, they can continue doing what they are doing to make themselves well.

9. CBT theory and techniques rely on the Inductive Method.
A central aspect of Rational thinking is that it is based on fact, not simply
our assumptions made. Often, we upset ourselves about things when, in
fact, the situation isn't like we thought it was. Had we known that, we would
not have wasted our time upsetting ourselves.

Therefore, the inductive method encourages us to look at our thoughts as
being hypotheses that can be questioned and tested. If we find that our
hypotheses are incorrect (because we have new information), then we can
change our thinking to be in line with how the situation really is.

There are over 25 very common mental mistakes that people make that cause
them to not have the facts straight.

Hope you find this interesting

References Used

Harm Kuipers, M.D., Ph.D.
Department of Physiology
University of Limburg

Kuipers, H. (1998). Anabolic steroids: side effects. In: Encyclopedia of Sports Medicine and Science, T.D.Fahey (Editor). Internet Society for Sport Science: http://sportsci.org. 7 March 1998.

Wrongun!
 
Depression is serious. I'm an older guy still in really good shape and recently went through exactly what you are describing. Ended up on meds.
 
Wrongun said:
I would look at CBT (Cognitive-behavioral therapy).

True. CBT is very effective and it is best to see if psychological counselling helps before trying medication. A general practicioner or psychiartrist will give you meds because that is what they do. Medication and CBT together has been shown to be the most effective but taking medication comes with a host of other problems and introduces a substance that you "need" to feel better and coming off usually causes problems. CBT can alter neural connections and influence neurtransmitters and truely help so if it is an options for you it is definately worth considering. Hope things work out for the best.

Caper26
 
Caper26 said:
Wrongun said:
I would look at CBT (Cognitive-behavioral therapy).

True. CBT is very effective and it is best to see if psychological counselling helps before trying medication. A general practicioner or psychiartrist will give you meds because that is what they do. Medication and CBT together has been shown to be the most effective but taking medication comes with a host of other problems and introduces a substance that you "need" to feel better and coming off usually causes problems. CBT can alter neural connections and influence neurtransmitters and truely help so if it is an options for you it is definately worth considering. Hope things work out for the best.

Caper26

Agreed and why i think CBT is powerful as a lot of meds rely on the psychological effects of taking a med.

Wrongun!
 
motodawg said:
Depression is serious. I'm an older guy still in really good shape and recently went through exactly what you are describing. Ended up on meds.

Did you consider or were you offered any other type of therapy out of interest?

Wrongun!
 
I am bi-polar and OCD. I have noticed a difference due to AAS. I have never gone to a shrink because I do not want that type of stuff in my medical records and honestly I am a bit arrogant and I have always believed it was something I needed to keep under wraps all by myself.

Long before my AAS use I read tons of books on managing depression and anxiety. I eventually overcame the OCD but depression and my bi-polar swings are always hidden the shadows and pop up every now and then. I have found ways to overcome depression and mental attacks through meditation, exercise, being with people who care for me, and just simply being aware. Not adimiting one has a problem is really the biggest obstacle to overcome.

I really don't have anything else to add to the above posts - IMO it is good stuff. If you feel comfortable see a shrink and also Oxycalm and the other things can help.

Hang in there and also know there are people out there that can help. It just takes time, patience, an open mind, and a solid plan, to overcome it.
 
Wrongun said:
Did you consider or were you offered any other type of therapy out of interest?

Wrongun!
No it was a regular doc i was on for 2 months then went off.
Gave me effexor xr 37.5 mg. I believe the anti depression meds are seritonin inhibitors. Don't really know so don't want to state something thats not true, but that would be where the feel good comes from....
 
motodawg said:
No it was a regular doc i was on for 2 months then went off.
Gave me effexor xr 37.5 mg. I believe the anti depression meds are seritonin inhibitors. Don't really know so don't want to state something thats not true, but that would be where the feel good comes from....

IMHO so many doc just hand out anti depressants without trying to understand the cuase or look for alternatives.

In terms of AAS use then yes a lot is the feel good factor (similar to anti - depressants in may cases). Problem i have is that if meds were the answer then you could just take 50mg Dbol ED and problem solved except my opinionis that it is only a short term fix to much bigger underlying issues that are escalates with AAS use.

End of the day whatever works is good though when you are down

Wrongun!
 
thanx for everyones help...ill c wat the doc says. i dun wanna get the sides from anti dep..hopefully the supps will work
 
liftr486 said:
Ever since coming off all AAS at the end of the summer I have been extremely depressed and anxious. All my bloods since have been normal so they are going to do a repeat one final time on wed. and then if theyre normal again send me to a psych. I had oxycalm and p7 around my house so i decided to start taking it instead of pouring alcohol down my throat. i have been doing 3 sprays per side 3x a day and it has been working good. what does should i do for the p7...it says 2 sprays per forearm but how many times a day?

also, these wont affect testosterone levels, lh, fsh or ne thing like that cuz thats wat theyre testing for....i jus feel like total shit

thanks

ps...also taking cee, trex and sesapure

So what was your last cycle??
 
Not sure if it effects you but i'd drop the trex. any kind of stimulants get my anxiety going.


liftr486 said:
Ever since coming off all AAS at the end of the summer I have been extremely depressed and anxious. All my bloods since have been normal so they are going to do a repeat one final time on wed. and then if theyre normal again send me to a psych. I had oxycalm and p7 around my house so i decided to start taking it instead of pouring alcohol down my throat. i have been doing 3 sprays per side 3x a day and it has been working good. what does should i do for the p7...it says 2 sprays per forearm but how many times a day?

also, these wont affect testosterone levels, lh, fsh or ne thing like that cuz thats wat theyre testing for....i jus feel like total shit

thanks

ps...also taking cee, trex and sesapure
 
My current cycle:

30mgs lexapro for depression
.25mgs xanax for anxiety attacks
10mgs ambien for sleep
10mgs crestor for cholesterol
180mgs diovan for blood pressure
 
I went through a bad depression after coming off my last cycle,cycles. I didn't do any PCT , so at the time I was miserable, I was shriking, didn;t want to workout anymore, didn't have any sex drive, appetite sucked, and couldn't sleep, I turned to other vices to deal with the depression. Any, it was a downward spiral. Took me about 7-8 months to start to feel better. And i was on wellbutrin for depression the whole time, still am on it, also I have to take 800 mg of serequil/night to sleep, but I'm feeling great now. Hang in there, it will get better, take it one day at atime. hope this helps
 
bro, i am lexapro and when im on cycle, i need to double my dose or my anxiety gets out of control. when i up the dose i am ok then. of course, my doc knows i cycle and he knows of the upping of my dose which he approved....so dont up your doses without asking him first
 
One of my major concern sabout doing my first cycle and why I waited so long was fear of depression at the end. I am curently in my seventh week of a 12 week 500mg test e cycle and have already begun thinking about way to keep the anxiety about depression at bay. I'm hoping my clomid PCT wont totally fuck me up emotionally. I hear it turn some into a blathering mess. I think you just need to be aware of all issues before jumping in. BTW-good thread.
 
I suggest xanax and some kind of antidepressant but be carful I was takeing lexapro and when I drank on it I blacked out and flipped out
 
have just been sticking with p7 and oxycalm....whenever i take the p7 i seem to get hard ons spontaneously...does p7 affect testosterone at all?
 
Hey guys,

I might be a little biased given the fact that I'm in medical school and see things through a more biological standpoint. I just finished a rotation in psychiatry and psych disorders are no joke. I saw the mention of CBT in the thread, and although I agree with you that CBT is effective - it is not effective alone for depression. CBT is far more useful for disorders such as social phobia and what not, because those type of disorders tend to be due to maladaptive thought rather than a biological imbalance. Depression is a little tricky as there is a biological basis (and being in the depressed state alters your body chemistry a lot). Plus, I don't think it is a coincidence that the depression is coinciding with your steroid use. Mental disorders are usually not treated as a type of disease, but they are. Chemical imbalances can lead to profound effects. My advice, see a doc, take the meds and do the therapy too. The meds will cause a lot of side effects which i'm sure you're not going to like (weight gain, sexual dysfunction, liver toxicity, etc.) but stick with it, get your head together and move on. A big problem I see with patients is that they become noncompliant with the meds and end up back in the psych ER. So to summarize: Meds + therapy is effective, but each is not effective alone. Honestly, although I love the AF store guys - but rubbing yourself down with peppermint oil and taking shots of oxytocin into the nares probably won't cut it. Good luck.
 
justinjones1963 said:
I am bi-polar and OCD. I have noticed a difference due to AAS. I have never gone to a shrink because I do not want that type of stuff in my medical records and honestly I am a bit arrogant and I have always believed it was something I needed to keep under wraps all by myself.

Long before my AAS use I read tons of books on managing depression and anxiety. I eventually overcame the OCD but depression and my bi-polar swings are always hidden the shadows and pop up every now and then. I have found ways to overcome depression and mental attacks through meditation, exercise, being with people who care for me, and just simply being aware. Not adimiting one has a problem is really the biggest obstacle to overcome.

I really don't have anything else to add to the above posts - IMO it is good stuff. If you feel comfortable see a shrink and also Oxycalm and the other things can help.

Hang in there and also know there are people out there that can help. It just takes time, patience, an open mind, and a solid plan, to overcome it.

That's pretty impressive that you're actually managing your bipolar purely on will power alone. I've met some interesting bi-polar patients and it seems so unlikely that they could control it (especially during manic episodes). Most of them lacked insight into their problems so that made it much harder.
 
i just got my bloods back from my doc and he said my total test was 341 and free was around 30. my levels have been going down from 600-500-341 over the past few months as i lowered and stopped my clomid. im going to see him tomorrow but he said theres nothing to do because im still in the "normal" range.

is it just me or does ne body else think that my low-normal levels could be a factor in me feeling like shit? i feel fucken great when im on and now hes basically told me this is how i should be. idk wat to do....now i wanna go back on
 
Were you taking nolvadex by any chace? That always did a number on me.

Id go with wellbutrin if youre doing anti-d's (talk to doc first, they love to prescribe this stuff). I used lexapro once and it was very weird. It kinda makes you spacey and not care about things. I would recommend something else.
 
ProtienFiend said:
Were you taking nolvadex by any chace? That always did a number on me.

Id go with wellbutrin if youre doing anti-d's (talk to doc first, they love to prescribe this stuff). I used lexapro once and it was very weird. It kinda makes you spacey and not care about things. I would recommend something else.

i would rather fix my test levels than just mask the symptoms with anti-depressants.
 
blz said:
Hey guys,

I might be a little biased given the fact that I'm in medical school and see things through a more biological standpoint. I just finished a rotation in psychiatry and psych disorders are no joke. I saw the mention of CBT in the thread, and although I agree with you that CBT is effective - it is not effective alone for depression. CBT is far more useful for disorders such as social phobia and what not, because those type of disorders tend to be due to maladaptive thought rather than a biological imbalance. Depression is a little tricky as there is a biological basis (and being in the depressed state alters your body chemistry a lot). Plus, I don't think it is a coincidence that the depression is coinciding with your steroid use. Mental disorders are usually not treated as a type of disease, but they are. Chemical imbalances can lead to profound effects. My advice, see a doc, take the meds and do the therapy too. The meds will cause a lot of side effects which i'm sure you're not going to like (weight gain, sexual dysfunction, liver toxicity, etc.) but stick with it, get your head together and move on. A big problem I see with patients is that they become noncompliant with the meds and end up back in the psych ER. So to summarize: Meds + therapy is effective, but each is not effective alone. Honestly, although I love the AF store guys - but rubbing yourself down with peppermint oil and taking shots of oxytocin into the nares probably won't cut it. Good luck.

Yes, one way to look at depression is through theroies of neurobiologics, but what about psychological theroies? You truley beleive that depression only arises through biologics? What about the lose of a loved one?? what about a person ubbringing- lack of love, care, warmth and protection?? irrational beliefs amd negative distortions of thought about one self?? And when you speak of one who is in their deppressive state, could there be more to altered body chemistry, this is why cognitive-behavioral-therapy is so effective, it tackles the our thought process and we can live healthfully with psychological issues. Include other models into that medical model approach! and you said it yourself, the two make for great recovery.
I agree with you-that meds and use of CBT is very effective; however, i think misunderstood what others encouraged and why one should look into CBT. Yes, you hear of CBT (pretty much) only used with patients with mood disorders and other disorders, but why couldn't one use this therapy when they first notice symptoms of depression?? We both know the answer.... because people are not educated in effective ways to deal/cope with problems and do not face them-leaving the problem unattended-which causes a sever state. But what if it people did know of statagies...... Perhaps you should look at the idea of health promotion/proactive and CBT..could these therapies not be used to the general public for depression??



blz said:
That's pretty impressive that you're actually managing your bipolar purely on will power alone. I've met some interesting bi-polar patients and it seems so unlikely that they could control it (especially during manic episodes). Most of them lacked insight into their problems so that made it much harder.
 
Last edited:
Also to add,

U should look into more effective ways of dealing with your problems liftr486, alcohol will only make it worse, and if it takes medications than do so- have seen it first hand how it dramatically increases anxiety and depression.
 
I still say smoking dope is a healthier alternative than this govt prescribed "junk" everybody is on. Granted, some people may truly benefit from these happy drugs, but as overprescribed as they are you gotta wonder if they are right for you.
 
blz said:
Hey guys,

I might be a little biased given the fact that I'm in medical school and see things through a more biological standpoint. I just finished a rotation in psychiatry and psych disorders are no joke. I saw the mention of CBT in the thread, and although I agree with you that CBT is effective - it is not effective alone for depression. CBT is far more useful for disorders such as social phobia and what not, because those type of disorders tend to be due to maladaptive thought rather than a biological imbalance. Depression is a little tricky as there is a biological basis (and being in the depressed state alters your body chemistry a lot). Plus, I don't think it is a coincidence that the depression is coinciding with your steroid use. Mental disorders are usually not treated as a type of disease, but they are. Chemical imbalances can lead to profound effects. My advice, see a doc, take the meds and do the therapy too. The meds will cause a lot of side effects which i'm sure you're not going to like (weight gain, sexual dysfunction, liver toxicity, etc.) but stick with it, get your head together and move on. A big problem I see with patients is that they become noncompliant with the meds and end up back in the psych ER. So to summarize: Meds + therapy is effective, but each is not effective alone. Honestly, although I love the AF store guys - but rubbing yourself down with peppermint oil and taking shots of oxytocin into the nares probably won't cut it. Good luck.
I also think peoples moods precycle will depend much on there post cycle outlook,many who have problems when they get off cycle had exhisting problems before,though being "on"helped alliviate the symptoms,when they get off they are much worse.If one has a history,or family history of depression or anxiety,they are surely likely to experience them more dramaticly after a cycle,then those who dont have a history.
 
BigCracker said:
I still say smoking dope is a healthier alternative than this govt prescribed "junk" everybody is on. Granted, some people may truly benefit from these happy drugs, but as overprescribed as they are you gotta wonder if they are right for you.

doesnt pot decrease test levels and increase chances of gyno?

thezan...
i also have stopped drinking by the way and it has made me feel better.
 
liftr486 said:
doesnt pot decrease test levels and increase chances of gyno?

thezan...
i also have stopped drinking by the way and it has made me feel better.

Those two myths were disproven many yrs ago. Check erovid for 411 to verify. Most other 411 is outdated shit from the reefer madness days. I've been a daily smoker since my teens. I had a real chip on my shoulder when I was a young buck, and I think weed probably kept me from killing somebody on a few occasions. At age 18 I honestly had no fear of going to jail nor did I have any remorse for beating someone into inches away from death. I even broke a kid's back with a bear hug in a high school wrestling match. I squeezed that fucker as hard as I could and put the guy in a wheelchair for life-which I never really felt bad about until I got older. I didn't try to cripple him, but I was trying just as hard to inflict pain as I was trying to win.

Anyway, with my fucked up childhood of recieving daily beratings and beatings for no reason, if anyone was a candidate for Rx mood meds it would be me. I just refuse to buy into the govts drug propaganda-especially when you see these people that kill their own children on the news. They're all on prozac, ambiem, paxil, etc-obviously the shit aint working too good. I'd rather self medicate with good old Mary Jane.
 
As galaxy stated above i would or i should say i take .25 mg or 1/4 of a xanax for depression or anxiety.. No more and no less. The problem is you can't or at least i cannot take xanax on a daily basis. So i take (when issues arise) .25mg xanax with lunch every other day with tylenol pm's on off days for no more than a week at a time. usually after a week of this protocol my body needs a rest from it all and i'm bacl to normal after the weekend. Just keep ur head bro seems like everyone has a little anxiety nowadayz more than ever!!!!
 
mikefear said:
it actually helped my depression -- i'm guessing because I was so low on test to begin with..


cycling seemed to help me too..except for the part when i came off.

came back from the docs today and he jus wants to see me in january.

im thinking about adding in dostinex cuz my sex drive is so low. i still attribute all of this to my lower test levels.
 
liftr486 said:
cycling seemed to help me too..except for the part when i came off.

came back from the docs today and he jus wants to see me in january.

im thinking about adding in dostinex cuz my sex drive is so low. i still attribute all of this to my lower test levels.


How old are you bro? Are you done with PCT? Lower test levels are definitely wrecking you! For me, it's not just the PCT regimen that makes me a total mess (clomid), but it's also the fact that my test levels return back to my "normal", which incidently is BELOW what is normal for most.... I feel like crap, exhausted, headaches, depression... believe me, drugging yourself up is not the solution... especially long-term anti-depression meds... taking an occasional small amount of xanax may help and so long as you don't get addicted to it.... but I wouldn't rely on anti-depressants.... it's NOT fun.... if any OTC products are helping ease the blow, go for it... maybe try some AIFM.... maybe even some proviron for a while to help with the libido - there should be minimal suppression.

Good luck!
 
njmuscleguy said:
How old are you bro? Are you done with PCT? Lower test levels are definitely wrecking you! For me, it's not just the PCT regimen that makes me a total mess (clomid), but it's also the fact that my test levels return back to my "normal", which incidently is BELOW what is normal for most.... I feel like crap, exhausted, headaches, depression... believe me, drugging yourself up is not the solution... especially long-term anti-depression meds... taking an occasional small amount of xanax may help and so long as you don't get addicted to it.... but I wouldn't rely on anti-depressants.... it's NOT fun.... if any OTC products are helping ease the blow, go for it... maybe try some AIFM.... maybe even some proviron for a while to help with the libido - there should be minimal suppression.

Good luck!


exactly, my normal levels are still pretty low.

been off aas since end of summer. i dont kno whether to try and get by otc stuff of hang out for a while and then go back on since this is as good as im gonna feel according to the doc.
 
liftr486 said:
exactly, my normal levels are still pretty low.

been off aas since end of summer. i dont kno whether to try and get by otc stuff of hang out for a while and then go back on since this is as good as im gonna feel according to the doc.

that's only a few months that you've been off....you can still be experiencing residual effects of not being "on" and especially from PCT.... are you sure your PCT was aggressive enough? long enough? I would try the OTC stuff to see if any of it helps, but definitely give it some more time before jumping back on.... maybe try the proviron in the meantime, maybe even some dbol (there's alot of discussion on that these days)...

I don't remember, but are you normally or have ever been predisposed to anxiety or depression? That's the only reason I can see for someone to jump onto meds after having come-off a cycle... otherwise, depression/anxiety is a normal occurrence during PCT and afterwards.... you just have to deal with it...gotta pay to play, right?
 
njmuscleguy said:
that's only a few months that you've been off....you can still be experiencing residual effects of not being "on" and especially from PCT.... are you sure your PCT was aggressive enough? long enough? I would try the OTC stuff to see if any of it helps, but definitely give it some more time before jumping back on.... maybe try the proviron in the meantime, maybe even some dbol (there's alot of discussion on that these days)...

I don't remember, but are you normally or have ever been predisposed to anxiety or depression? That's the only reason I can see for someone to jump onto meds after having come-off a cycle... otherwise, depression/anxiety is a normal occurrence during PCT and afterwards.... you just have to deal with it...gotta pay to play, right?


i shoulda been more detailed....after being off for close to three yrs i went back on in may and ended like the second week of june. i think i should be recovered by now. my doc kept me on clomid up till 3 wks ago on descending dosages because i wasnt responding. throughout the cycle and for a while after i was usin dostinex to help with the tren sides. i stopped the dostinex along with the clomid and since then my levels have dropped and my sex drive is in the shitter. plus ive been feelin sensitivity in my chest- i wonder if i stopped the dostinex too abruptly? idk...all i kno is im a fucken mess
 
not sure about the dostinex, don't have any experience there.....what does sound certain is that you should stay away from tren in the future.... what you're going through is common for alot of tren users....
 
thezan said:
Yes, one way to look at depression is through theroies of neurobiologics, but what about psychological theroies? You truley beleive that depression only arises through biologics? What about the lose of a loved one?? what about a person ubbringing- lack of love, care, warmth and protection?? irrational beliefs amd negative distortions of thought about one self?? And when you speak of one who is in their deppressive state, could there be more to altered body chemistry, this is why cognitive-behavioral-therapy is so effective, it tackles the our thought process and we can live healthfully with psychological issues. Include other models into that medical model approach! and you said it yourself, the two make for great recovery.
I agree with you-that meds and use of CBT is very effective; however, i think misunderstood what others encouraged and why one should look into CBT. Yes, you hear of CBT (pretty much) only used with patients with mood disorders and other disorders, but why couldn't one use this therapy when they first notice symptoms of depression?? We both know the answer.... because people are not educated in effective ways to deal/cope with problems and do not face them-leaving the problem unattended-which causes a sever state. But what if it people did know of statagies...... Perhaps you should look at the idea of health promotion/proactive and CBT..could these therapies not be used to the general public for depression??

I think what hes trying to say is: We're not sure if low test levels are the symptom or are the disease.
 
ProtienFiend said:
I think what hes trying to say is: We're not sure if low test levels are the symptom or are the disease.

there was more to it ........

All i was trying to say is that one who suffers from mild depression and anxiety should not be so quick to throw all sorts of meds into their body.
He was very quick and confident to suggest seeing a doc and getting meds to help.
I suggest, before medical approach, let's look at other therapeutic ways we can help with depression and anxiety....and CBT is an excellent choice.

also i strongly beleive!
If people do suffer from more than normal depression and anxiety-as a result from gear or not-, leaning towards dysthymic disorder (milder, chronic form of MDD) and in the worse case MDD, IMO they should not be near gear.
 
i think i may have pin pointed the problem...i just read somewhere that dostinex suppresses testosterone as a result of suppressing prolactin....has ne body heard nething about this?
 
Well, from 19 till 26 I used three kinds of pills: anafranil, olcadil and socian. It did a hell of a job for me. The only "not so good" thing was my libido and/or test levels going down. Whenever I felt this happening, I would go with hcg, 500 ui every 2 or three days till I was in shape. I was able to get rid of the pills. Now I'm having more problems again due to a bad tren cycle, which led me to sleep privation and to anxiety, panic attacks, depression. I'm taking diazepam (valium) and Triticum Ac 150. It is helping me, but I still have a lot to go. I might have some libido/test issues with this new treatment, so I will go back to Hcg, 500ui eod ou every 3 days. I'm also feeling bloated, liquid retention and have no idea where the hell that is coming from. I just did some tests, will get them next monday. Currently, I'm on proviron + Zma + Tribulus + melatonin + valium + triticum ac 150. It might be one of these that is getting me bloated/high estrogen levels. And this really gets me even more depressed, causa I am dieting well, but my stomach alwasys seems to have some fat/water. Have no idea.I did a heavy cycle of hcg, took too much in too little time cause I was freaking out cause my libido was down. But that was almost three months ago. If anyone has a clue, share it or just pm.
 
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