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Are simple carbs fats?
- Thread starter Snypr
- Start date
JustJacked
New member
No. Simple carbs like sugar are essential to bodybuilders but they need to be taken at the right time. You want to take in simple carbs when your glycogen levels are at their lowest. The best time to take simple carbs would be after workout. After intense training your glycogen levels are depleted and you need to restore them. If you dont replenish your glycogen stores than your cortisol levels will go thru the roof and your body will go into a catobolic state and start breaking down your muscle tissue to convert it to glycogen.
Simple carbs need to be controled. There are two types of sugars, fructose and glucose. Glucose is the fastest form of carbohydrate to be converted to glycogen. Glucose is readily converted to glycogen while fructose has to go thu the liver first in order to be converted to glycogen. If your liver glycogen levels are full then fructose will get stored as bodyfat. With glucose, if your muscle glycogen levels are full and you dont use it for energy than it will be converted to bodyfat.
All you need to do is learn when to eat the sugars and you will be fine. If you are not sure just ask, Ill be happy to let you know.
Simple carbs need to be controled. There are two types of sugars, fructose and glucose. Glucose is the fastest form of carbohydrate to be converted to glycogen. Glucose is readily converted to glycogen while fructose has to go thu the liver first in order to be converted to glycogen. If your liver glycogen levels are full then fructose will get stored as bodyfat. With glucose, if your muscle glycogen levels are full and you dont use it for energy than it will be converted to bodyfat.
All you need to do is learn when to eat the sugars and you will be fine. If you are not sure just ask, Ill be happy to let you know.
Thanks for the info. One more question. I usually take 100 calories of carbs (a Clif Shot; 25 gms carb, no sugar ) before cardio. I just learned that this is counterproductive because my body has to burn off the Clif Shot before I can start burning fat. Do you agree with this, and should I just take it afterwards with the simple carbs?
JustJacked
New member
Yes. the best time to do cardio is right after you wake before you eat any carbs. Have a light protein shake but thats it. Doing cardio without carbs in the morning will trick your body into using fat stores as energy. Dont forget to eat a huge breakfast about half hour after cardio. You should take in 25% of your total carbs and cals at breakfast. If you are cutting than take in half your daily carbs at breakfast, and the other half after training.
Bigdogmikey
New member
no they turn to fat and are stored as fat faster then complex carbs and proteins
pintoca said:
YES
And as said above, it is SILLY to take in those carbs pre-cardio - unless, of course, you are training for a marathon.
JustJacked
New member
Shobe said:
Your body needs carbs to replenish your depleted glycogen stores. If you dont restore your glycogen levels then your body will start to break down your muscle tissue and convert it to glycogen. Glucose is the fastest form of carbohydrate that gets into the bloodstream and thefore is best after intense training.
No carbs after training=negative muscle gains.
Ok, so this probably explains why I can't move up in my weight training. I haven't been able to move up in my lifting in like 6 months. I haven't take carbs post workout yet. I guess I will start. I just ordered 50% Malto 50% dextro from trueprotein.com. Would this be good to take with my whey shake post workout?? But I'm worried I'll gain fat if I eat this many carbs.
JustJacked
New member
Shobe said:
You wont gain fat if you eat carbs after training. trust me, your body needs it. Get a creatine product that has dextrose in it. My creatine has 45g of dextrose in it and I take it immediatly after workout.
Depending on your bodyweight shoot for 60-100g of simple carbs after training.
JustJacked
New member
Shobe said:
Simple carbs after training is a nessecity for building mass and strength. Take about 60g of dex with your post workout shake.
deltreefitness
New member
After morning cardio I've been having oatmeal with honey and bananas, lately. I figured the honey would quickly replenish my glycogen. If that doesn't do it the fructose should. Then the oats are complex carb. After that I'll mix-up some protein powder. Anything jump out as a body building no-no? Made sense to me but a second opinion couldn't hurt.
JustJacked
New member
deltreefitness said:
Sounds pretty good to me. I wouldnt eat for about half hour after cardio because your body is still burning fat as energy during this period. If you restocked your glycogen stores right away then your body would just use that as energy instead of your bodyfat.
One thing people do wrong is not eating a big breakfast. You should take in at least 25% of your total daily calories at breakfast. Especially if your doing morning cardio.
deltreefitness
New member
JustJacked said:
Cool. I usually wait a little bit before eating.
Why do you suggest eating 50% of your carbs at breakfast if cutting?
JustJacked
New member
deltreefitness said:
When you wake up after a long sleep your body has drained its glycogen stores and your cortisol levels are high. In order to lower your cortisol levels to normal you have to replenish your glycogen stores. When cutting there are two times per day when you NEED carbs. In the morning and after training.
pintoca
New member
gjohnson5 said:
It actually depends on wether you are bulking or cutting (ratios will vary on this). I am not a big fan of absolute truths. Ultimately it will depend on what works for the particular individual, formulas should be used only as a starting point.
And don't get me wronf Gj, I respect your opinion and I have read the boards enough to know you know your shit, so peace.
JustJacked
New member
gjohnson5 said:
Are you saying that you should take 4 times the amount of protein than carbs after training? This is crazy!
gjohnson5
New member
JustJacked said:
Oops , it should be 4:1 carbs
roteinI personally would never eat that much simple carbs post workout. Maybe eat oats as it's a slow digester.
http://www.pureendurance.net/endurox_r4_system
Even more significant are research findings showing that protein and the amino acid, arginine, when combined with a carbohydrate supplement can strongly stimulate insulin levels in a synergistic fashion. The ratio of carbohydrate to protein is extremely important to obtain this synergy. The Optimum Recovery Ratio (OR2) should be 4:1 (four grams of carbohydrate to one gram of protein.) By further stimulating insulin with protein and arginine, muscle glycogen is restored quicker. The result - improved performance and a faster recovery.
JustJacked
New member
gjohnson5 said:Oops , it should be 4:1 carbs
I personally would never eat that much simple carbs post workout. Maybe eat oats as it's a slow digester.
http://www.pureendurance.net/endurox_r4_system
Even more significant are research findings showing that protein and the amino acid, arginine, when combined with a carbohydrate supplement can strongly stimulate insulin levels in a synergistic fashion. The ratio of carbohydrate to protein is extremely important to obtain this synergy. The Optimum Recovery Ratio (OR2) should be 4:1 (four grams of carbohydrate to one gram of protein.) By further stimulating insulin with protein and arginine, muscle glycogen is restored quicker. The result - improved performance and a faster recovery.
Yeah, I can tell you that this is an awesome combo. In my post shake I have creatine5g with 45g glucose, 40g protein, 4g arginine, 5g glutamine and a Pepsi. When I leave the gym I have the craziest pump going on its sick!
If I were you I would eat a fast digesting carb like glucose after training in your shake. You want to restore your glycogen levels as fast as you can and spike your insulin levels. Bro, try eating lots of sugars after training for a months or two. You will notice some nice gains. And as long as your training intensly you wont add bodyfat.
gjohnson5
New member
JustJacked said:Yeah, I can tell you that this is an awesome combo. In my post shake I have creatine5g with 45g glucose, 40g protein, 4g arginine, 5g glutamine and a Pepsi. When I leave the gym I have the craziest pump going on its sick!
If I were you I would eat a fast digesting carb like glucose after training in your shake. You want to restore your glycogen levels as fast as you can and spike your insulin levels. Bro, try eating lots of sugars after training for a months or two. You will notice some nice gains. And as long as your training intensly you wont add bodyfat.
Have you been tested for insulin resistance? It is not a good thing to spike your blood sugar on a regular basis. Unless you want to become diabetic.
deltreefitness
New member
Like I said I do about 30min of cardio in the morning after I wake up before eating anything. It was mentioned that it's good practice to wait for 30 minutes before eating so you can keep burning calories. How long is safe to wait to replenlish glycogen before going into a catabolic state?
gjohnson5
New member
deltreefitness said:
I don't personally believe that carbs are the main factor in going catabolic or anabolic. it's your nitrogen balance , not your glycogen stores that determine this. I would like justjacked to point out where it says that glycogen stores are the signal for the body to start tearing down muscle for fuel, despite haivng a positive nitrogen balance. Why would fats not be oxidized instead of muscle?
deltreefitness
New member
gjohnson5 said:
I know there are many factors determining this window but even as a gerneral rule that's more than I expected. I always worry about this. I still try to keep my workouts, whether cardio or werights, to one hour or less. Then consume my post workout meal within 45 minutes.
gjohnson5
New member
deltreefitness said:
This is what this site says
http://www.cptips.com/recvry.htm
http://www.torqueathletic.com/news.php?ID=107&r=-14821
These sites say 2 different things. Studies have showed many things on this top. But what I have yet to hear is that depleted glycogen causes catabolism
JustJacked
New member
"Get this, glucose provides energy for your brain and for making blood in your body. Glucose can be made from protein, however, this requires the breakdown of body protein, yes, from muscle. That's right, if you're not eating enough carbohydrates, your body will start breaking down precious muscle tissue for glucose. Unfortunately, your body cannot use fats for glucose. Also, protein has its own roles in the body, and making glucose is not one of them, so by restricting carbohydrate intake, you throw your body's processes out of whack"
This was in an article by David Knowles-degree in excercise science and bodybuilder.
Here is the full article if you want to read it. http://www.flexbodybuilding.com/nutrition_lesson.html
This was in an article by David Knowles-degree in excercise science and bodybuilder.
Here is the full article if you want to read it. http://www.flexbodybuilding.com/nutrition_lesson.html
deltreefitness
New member
JustJacked said:
How do those on a CDK diet gain any muscle then? Must you be in constant ketosis?
JustJacked
New member
deltreefitness said:
Its simple. If your cutting your cutting. If your bulking your bulking. Dont expect to add muscle mass when your cutting and dont expect to lose significant amounts of fat when your bulking. Most people gain a little fat when bulking. What I talk about is the average. You could be diferent. Trial and error is the best way to find what works for you. These are just ways to maximize your gains.
gjohnson5
New member
JustJacked said:
The article also says...
"Now for the fats. Fats are very important. In the body, fats are the main source of energy. Believe it or not, fat combines with glucose for energy in order to spare the breakdown of protein. This way protein can be used in order to do its job, make more muscle! Like I said, fat broken down in the body gives 9 kcals per gram. Now think about that, since fat releases more kcals (energy) per gram, it only makes sense that your body would first use fat as its chief source of energy."
Unfortunately glucose is the body's chief source of energy, not fats. I would be ince if fats were the chief source of energy because we'd all be thin
Then it says.
"When speaking of proteins, the term nitrogen balance is usually thrown on the table. This is referring to protein synthesis and degradation in the body. If the body synthesizes more than it degrades and adds protein, you have a positive nitrogen balance. Protein intake exceeds output, and protein is retained in tissue as new muscle is added. Obviously, this is something that you want. Watch out, if your protein output exceeds intake you would have a negative nitrogen balance. This is not good because the opposite is now happening. Your body is degrading muscle and other body proteins. You usually see this in people who are starving, burned, injured, or have a fever. This puts your body in what is called a catabolic state.
An anabolic state is when your body has a positive nitrogen balance. The term catabolic refers to the state of the body in which body compounds are broken down for energy purposes. Ultimately, you cannot grow if your body is in a catabolic state. An anabolic state refers to a growing state of the body in which energy is used to build up body compounds. "
Which is exactly what I was saying. Carbs have nothing to do with catabolic and anabolic state. It's your nitrogen balance. Being depleted of carbs does not determine if you are catabolic or not. When you are depleted of carbs the body will have to look for alternate sources of energy and It should be said that fats can be that alternate source if your diet is cottect, meaning high protein + glutamine peptides, and some unsatured fats as foods
JustJacked
New member
Its all good brother! Im not gonna argue back and forth with articles! Everybody has a diferent opinion. I was giving mine and you gave yours. We could find thouothands of articles on the net and they would all be diferent! Do you really care to do that? I dont!
gjohnson5
New member
JustJacked said:
Ketosis is the state at which fats are being burned for fuel instead of carbs.
Please read the document on ketosis. Hopefully finding out how your body uses fuel isn't a matter of opinion but a matter of finding out how your body works.
One thing that does hold true , spiking your blood sugar only leads to insulin resistance and type 2 diabetes so you may want to read this.
http://www.survivediabetes.com/ketosis.htm
JustJacked
New member
gjohnson5 said:
Bench presses lead to pec tears, barbell curls can pop out your shoulder, shoulder presse can destroy your rotator cuff, walking across the street can get you hit by a car.....
If you dont take chances then whats the point? This is a hardcore bodybuilding site. Not a site for sissy moms trying to get back in shape.
Im done here. Take care bro.
