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Anybody here 200lbs or under?
- Thread starter noltonr
- Start date
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Mr.X
Guest
noltonr said:
160lbs. how tall are you?
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immortalis
Guest
Im 6'2" and right now I am 206.
When I graduated high school I was 174 pounds. I got a scholarship to play division 1 football, and by the end of my first year I was at 196 pounds with 7% bodyfat.
I pretty much peaked at 196 with how much running we did all year round... coupled with my insanely high metabolism, it made it virtually imposible for me to put on anymore weight.
I did my first cycle my junior year and when I ended i was 216 pounds with sub 10% bodyfat. Roughly 2 months later I had dropped down 208 where I stayed for pretty much the rest of college. I didnt lose any strength and when I finished playing football I was just below 5% bodyfat.
Now, when I did my first cycle I am gonna be honest. I was completely uneducated as to what I was doing.
I highly recommend you tell us a lot more about you, your stats, diet and training regimine so that the veterans here on the board can help point you in the right direction while making sure that you are maintaining at least some amount of safety with what you are wanting to do to your body.
When I graduated high school I was 174 pounds. I got a scholarship to play division 1 football, and by the end of my first year I was at 196 pounds with 7% bodyfat.
I pretty much peaked at 196 with how much running we did all year round... coupled with my insanely high metabolism, it made it virtually imposible for me to put on anymore weight.
I did my first cycle my junior year and when I ended i was 216 pounds with sub 10% bodyfat. Roughly 2 months later I had dropped down 208 where I stayed for pretty much the rest of college. I didnt lose any strength and when I finished playing football I was just below 5% bodyfat.
Now, when I did my first cycle I am gonna be honest. I was completely uneducated as to what I was doing.
I highly recommend you tell us a lot more about you, your stats, diet and training regimine so that the veterans here on the board can help point you in the right direction while making sure that you are maintaining at least some amount of safety with what you are wanting to do to your body.
shortspanishguy
New member
I started my first cycle at 145. 5'4'' 24 years old
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Mr.X
Guest
noltonr said:
You can work your way up to 200lbs. naturally with DIET
petalpusher
New member
I agree with Mr. X. I'm about 5'8" (medium sized bone frame) and can get up to 200lbs naturally with proper training and diet.
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neverenuf
Guest
Mr.X said:
if you follow my pizza and beer diet for a few years you can get to over 300lbs, @ 5'10" and probably 35% bf it wasnt pretty but it can be done...and no cardio...those were the days...
bluetwistedsteel67
New member
Oh you should have said that before bro. A couple really big guys told you that you could not get over 185? Then there must be no way. They have no clue about YOUR natural ability to gain, they only know about theirs. Unless you have really busted your ass in the gym and by bust your ass, I mean go into the gym and have your goal to never allow anybody in there to train with more intensity than you and have consumed 6000 cals per day over a prolonged period you don't know what your genetic limit is. I guarantee if you up your cals to 6000 (clean) per day and really hit it hard in the gym and drink a gallon of water a day and get minimum 8 hrs of sleep a night you'd get to 200 in a year easily.
noltonr said:
M
Mr.X
Guest
noltonr said:
If you say you can't then why post here? you already doom yourself. There is not going to be a 'magical' change in your body make-up when you take AS.
You haven't reached your genetic limit, so AS is NOT for you.
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racoon_city
Guest
i have to agree with X on this one
by the way did you get my last PM x ??
by the way did you get my last PM x ??
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racoon_city
Guest
maybe the guy has a test deficiancy?
JumpBallWinner
New member
racoon_city said:
With the numbers he posted, I'd say that if anything, he has high natural test. Benching 250 10x and squatting 345 10x for sets at 160 naturally is pretty impressive for a recreational lifter. I know plenty of guys who are 200+ and juicing who have numbers comparable to those. I'd say read the diet forum and up your calories significantly and read a bunch of info on bulking diets and maybe take a look into the 5x5 program also in the lifting forum. You could probably make a good bit more progress with those two things alone. I think that if you do everything right, you're gonna be freakishly strong once you do start on AAS added with the strength a better diet and programs like the 5x5 will give you. Good luck.
Mr.X said:
I mostly agree here. I won't say FOR SURE that you can get to 200...but I'd say probably pretty close. I bet if you got on a good bulking diet (check out diet & training forums as JumpBall said) you'd start gaining pretty quick. You could probably get to 180 in no time! Then you're half way there!
Start with a good diet program and keep training hard. Switch up your training some (if you don't already). Lots of programs out there.
perp69
New member
I think you can do it with diet. Will it be easy, of course not, nothing is. I imagine it would be about as hard as it is for me to diet from 220 down to 172 being an endomorph. You want to trade for a bit? 
You will never know unless you try. By the way you are putting some good numbers on your weights there.
Perp
You will never know unless you try. By the way you are putting some good numbers on your weights there.Perp
Ramcononer
New member
I think its all possible with diet. Im not as knowledgeable as alot of the guys on the board but when I was wrestling in high shcool I was 107 lbs at 5'9" practically struggling with the bar on the bench. 5 years later and alot of time in the gym I peaked at 207lbs at 5'11" and putting up 250lbs on an incline press for at least 5. I didnt even take creatine. Maybe its cuz Im a young buck and natural test is outta control....you know what they say "Young, Dum, and full of .......ahhh you get it"
todoveritas
New member
Yes, it is difficult for ectomorphs to gain, but not impossible. You want to get to 200lbs? AAS might, and I say might help. That is, once you have religously tried everything else and have at least 2-3 sold years of lifting under your belt, AND during that time have eaten 5 meals a day with 30 gms of protein per meal. Then, it might be time to try AAS. DO a couple of warm-up cycles then implement the tried and true D-bol/test/Deca regimen. There is a saying in BB that if the bread and butter stack don't make you grow-nothing will. If after 12 weeks of that, you are still < 200lbs, it is likely you will never be!
MASSIVEMONSTER
New member
some excellent replies here. I was once like you and managed to get up to 190 naturally from starting at 140. With gear I have moved onto 220`s now.
Food is the most important thing for gaining weight period.
Keep upping your calories until you get even to 5000 a day if your not gaining much fat then your body needs this amount to grow.
Using AAS will help to a degree but you gotta eat really well for a year or two first. Its always best to build a natural base. Eating a lot consistently is hard work, hence why guys turn to gear too early on.
Food is the most important thing for gaining weight period.
Keep upping your calories until you get even to 5000 a day if your not gaining much fat then your body needs this amount to grow.
Using AAS will help to a degree but you gotta eat really well for a year or two first. Its always best to build a natural base. Eating a lot consistently is hard work, hence why guys turn to gear too early on.
Outtlaw
New member
All you guys saying you can gain 20-30lbs of muscle in a year NATTY are full of it. I dont care who you are, no one can build that much muscle, that fast, naturally. If you can get 7-10lbs of muscle in a year natty then you are doing EXTREMELY well.
As far as genetic limitations. There's still a lot of debate on that, and still a lot of stuff I (and WE) dont know about. I used to believe like many that everyone could get to 200lbs naturally. But after talking to some people and reading peoples post on the boards Im not so sure anymore. There are many top level athletes that know a hell of a lot about diet and training that are just naturally small; and were never able to break 200lbs without gear.
You cant group everyone in the same class when it comes to genetic ability. If so, Frank Zane could've easily out massed Arnold if he just ate enough food and trained correctly.
As far as genetic limitations. There's still a lot of debate on that, and still a lot of stuff I (and WE) dont know about. I used to believe like many that everyone could get to 200lbs naturally. But after talking to some people and reading peoples post on the boards Im not so sure anymore. There are many top level athletes that know a hell of a lot about diet and training that are just naturally small; and were never able to break 200lbs without gear.
You cant group everyone in the same class when it comes to genetic ability. If so, Frank Zane could've easily out massed Arnold if he just ate enough food and trained correctly.
This guy probably isn't ready for gear, but I don't think it's always right to tell people you have to get to 200 pounds, or you should be able to. Eating 4500 cals a day, and pretty much taking up ALL of my time of the day to eat and lift I still could not get past 180. I wrote it all down, I did not go out, and I still could not get past 180. I have no idea what some of you guys do who have full-time jobs with harsh schedules where you can't get breaks often. I can't even fathom it.
MASSIVEMONSTER
New member
I got to 185 at 5`8 naturally but looking back I could have eaten more protien and more food in general, trained differently (not just powerlifting training) and not got pissed as much as i used to and i think 195 would have been achieveable. I do agree though not every one can reach these levels naturally, genetics is the underlining factor. My bro is 140lb at 5`7 and he would never get near 200lb but he does eat like a bird
njmuscleguy
New member
I have to agree with Outlaw and Jayhawk here... I've trained for 10 years now...still no expert, but learning alot more every day... and at 5'7", the highest I could attain naturally was 165 lbs, not matter what I did... no matter what supplements I took... no matter how I ate... well, I probably could've taken in an extra 1,000 - 2,000 calories a day, but that would mean taking on ALOT of fat.... I'd have gained the weight but at the expense of losing any shape or musculature.... after my first cycle (age 28) I only gained about 5-7 pounds total... and lost it all...did alot of research on AAS and diet and then after my second, I gained about 12 pounds and kept 7.... in retrospect, if I ate more, I would've gained more... but again, at what expense?... I guess the whole point I'm making is that I'd have a very tough time getting to 200 lbs naturally (let alone with help!)... and if I did get to 200lbs naturally at this point, it'd be from eating alot of Burger King and Dairy Queen.... I can barely take in 4,500 calories eating CLEAN.... how the heck does one take in 6,000 CLEAN calories (as was suggested in this thread)??
i carry 186 lbs right now at 5'5". i maintain this lean. i had to take 2 years to force myself to grow. this meant looking like shit for awhile but in my case thats what it took. i got to 220 (all natural) and then slowly over the years cut what wasnt necessary. if you are a hard gainer you have to dedicate alot of time to getting big naturally. not everyone can get up in weight. i could never maintain 200 under 10% bf, impossible. its about knowing your own limits. but if you want to get big you have to force your body to grow and i believe this means getting fat. i would never do a bulk/cut phase again to get big because i paid my dues. but i do think that if you want to take that step into being thick you have to stretch the fascia. this wont happen eating clean. but i dont believe in this now, i sacrificed 2 years of looking like shit to get to where i am. never again. it did work though.
karachi183
New member
I started at about 160-something a few years back and have done only dbol once (completely loved it)and creatines different protein shakes etc.. and right now i'm sitting at 180-something at prolly 12-15% BF (really not sure) but i look the same as far as stomach and waist size (33) and i put on 20 lbs since joining elite. Believe me brotha time and patients is the key as is eating like madman... It can be done.. This time next year hopefully i'll be a comfortable 200 or just under 200 lb guy.
Retabolil2
New member
MrX whats your weight? Over 200lbs I hope?Mr.X said:
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Mr.X
Guest
Retabolil2 said:
1) it's Mr.X (. included)
2) yes over 200
It has nothing to do with this question.
Retabolil2 what's your weight? you over 200lbs. I hope?
Retabolil2
New member
Mr.X said:
Well I was just curious about it. But the way you reply to such a simple question it makes it look you`re 170lbs or so
LOLI think EF mod should start at 250lbs
JuicedAthletics
New member
Thats horrible advice.... Bro for your height and frame. 200lbs with a low bodyfat is a hard task to accomplish.. im 6'1 i have a small frame also... I got up to about 190-195 lbs with a low bodyfat.. after that i couldnt break 200lbs until i got fat.. So i ate my way up to 240 pounds.. I thought I would be able to diet down and keep some muscle.. NOPE.. I went back to 190-195 same bodyfat.. Everyones body is different.. I wouldnt advise going out and getting on the sauce just yet.. But try to up your cals until you start getting fat.. You'll find a point that your body just cant put on anymore muscle without either HELP, or adding bodyfat.. Then take it from there.
Tweakle
New member
Outlaw, yes 30lbs naturally of muscle is BS even most beginners with olympia genetics aren't going to get that
I'd agree with you on the low ceiling some people have for putting on size, but usually the problem is this - most small, very lean guys are deathly afraid to get 'fat' and simply will not eat enough quality calories. their sense of self worth dervies from their low bodyfat as they have no real mass to show they workout.. and losing the one thing they have is too hard to deal with.
Dante (DC) has written some great posts on putting on size, as this section elite is not so great for training or diet advice I would suggest going to intensemuscle.com
I'd agree with you on the low ceiling some people have for putting on size, but usually the problem is this - most small, very lean guys are deathly afraid to get 'fat' and simply will not eat enough quality calories. their sense of self worth dervies from their low bodyfat as they have no real mass to show they workout.. and losing the one thing they have is too hard to deal with.
Dante (DC) has written some great posts on putting on size, as this section elite is not so great for training or diet advice I would suggest going to intensemuscle.com
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Mr.X
Guest
Retabolil2 said:Well I was just curious about it. But the way you reply to such a simple question it makes it look you`re 170lbs or so
I think EF mod should start at 250lbs
Reta, do me a favor and shut up. Quit being a dick, and picking a fight.
The way you start drama on this board makes you look like a 10 year old, simple? and yes, I will start deleting your posts.
I have to say, you have go to be the most annoying person I've ever met on EF.
letsrun4it
New member
Reta and X fighting is like when Bret Hart and Steve Austin faced off at wrestlemania 13, your two heros facing off and you just hope it doesn't get too bloody.
BigCracker
New member
I was 5ft 10in and 200#'s when I was 15-16 yrs old. I guess my parents were on roids?
silver_shadow
New member
^^^Mr.X said:
206 this morning at 6'.
Been as low as 169 and as high as 230.
Looking for 225 by end of year with proportional measurements.
Agree with Mr. X on cycle.
Been as low as 169 and as high as 230.
Looking for 225 by end of year with proportional measurements.
Agree with Mr. X on cycle.
Retabolil2
New member
Mr.X said:
Where exactly do you see any drama? Its just the way you take it bro
I`m simply in a good mood (thanks god boogie time is over) and joking around. Everytime I see Jan`s posts and see his pics on russian boards I tell him he is small and his legs lacking hella mass He never takes it so seriously as you do Just because he knows he is big
Retabolil2 said:Where exactly do you see any drama? Its just the way you take it bro
Personally ... I enjoy Reta. He can get on a roll ... LOL But it usually the truth. Almost fearless ... refreshing.
Jockular humor is OK as long as the guys know it is all in rough fun.
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neverenuf
Guest
thelion2005 said:
gotta agree...trying to learn as much as possible...but u gotta bust some balls now and then...hopefully only for fun...
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Anthony Roberts
Guest
I'm about two bills in this pic.
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Anthony Roberts
Guest
Retabolil2 said:Well I was just curious about it. But the way you reply to such a simple question it makes it look you`re 170lbs or so
I think EF mod should start at 250lbs
I think that would make the female mods a bit disturbing...
Retabolil2
New member
LOLanthony roberts said:
Female mods must be pretty, thats all I demand off of them
Seriously though...I am a very hard gainer. But, I found that I could train myself to eat huge! I remember how I used to struggle to eat 4000 cals/day.
I also remember a couple years later when I struggled to eat around 8500-9500 cals/day! I got up to about 210-215 but my waist also got 2 inches bigger (from 32 to 34).
Now, I eat around 4000 cals a day, and if I don't get at least 3000 to 3500 it feels like I'm about to starve to death! Of course my work load has increased and my workout load has decreased in the last year, and although I'm still 200 lbs, my waist is back to a 34, and my arms have lost an inch, and my chest has probably lost about 4 inches!
Now, I'm just a fat fuck!
I also remember a couple years later when I struggled to eat around 8500-9500 cals/day! I got up to about 210-215 but my waist also got 2 inches bigger (from 32 to 34).
Now, I eat around 4000 cals a day, and if I don't get at least 3000 to 3500 it feels like I'm about to starve to death! Of course my work load has increased and my workout load has decreased in the last year, and although I'm still 200 lbs, my waist is back to a 34, and my arms have lost an inch, and my chest has probably lost about 4 inches!
Now, I'm just a fat fuck!
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Anthony Roberts
Guest
ceo said:And Sponsored by Under Armor!!
Only the shorts are actually mine....
krishna
New member
I know where you're coming from bro. Anyone can get above 200 if they want to be a fatass! I'm 6 foot, and I usually hover right below 200, and it's hard as hell to get past it; especially since my bodyfat is usually between 6 and 7%. Sure I could cruise past 200 if I wanted to throw on some extra bf, but who the hell wants that? If you are lean, it is hard to gain weight PERIOD!
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Mr.X
Guest
Retabolil2 said:Where exactly do you see any drama? Its just the way you take it bro
See bro, I don't know when you are kidding and when you are not. When I have talks with you via PM about your actions on the board, you discuss things in the same mannerism as you do here in the open. How am I supposed to know when you're kidding? Remember I'm thousands of miles away, so are most EF members. Neither I nor anyone here can see your facial expressions when you type. Either way, in 60% of your posts you come off as a dick, that's even more of an issue.
In russian, those would be ok jokes (not that funny), but in english it makes you sound like a dick bro. Next time, if you're going to say something make sure it's appropriate in english first.
fbodyguy02
New member
ceo said:And Sponsored by Under Armor!!
I was just about to post that.
fbodyguy02
New member
krishna said:
Soo fukkin tru!
Retabolil2
New member
Mr.X said:
As our friend D**T says my english is still poor and I`m lurnin!
LOL I try to put smilies too! Making big effort to sound like a funny guy! Well not as funny as Satch because we all know his last joke wasnt that good either
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Mr.X
Guest
Retabolil2 said:As our friend D**T says my english is still poor and I`m lurnin!
see at least now you're semi-funny...but don't pick fights with DBBT, you know the rule abou that.
Retabolil2
New member
I do my best sir!Mr.X said:see at least now you're semi-funny...but don't pick fights with DBBT, you know the rule about that.
as I said I dont fight with small guys below 200lbs
BTW who is DBBT?
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UA_Iron
Guest
Retabolil2 said:I do my best sir!
as I said I dont fight with small guys below 200lbs
BTW who is DBBT?
I think he's some fat dude that hangs around the AAS forums
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UA_Iron
Guest
for the record:
204lbs at 5'8"
just had a 2 week lay off for strep throat and pink eye in both eyes.
I tell ya, the fuckers at my gym are unclean and need to wash their hands more.
204lbs at 5'8"
just had a 2 week lay off for strep throat and pink eye in both eyes.
I tell ya, the fuckers at my gym are unclean and need to wash their hands more.
tiggerizme
Banned
Lol I like that post. Bread and butter stack. It's true
Retabolil2
New member
UA_Iron said:I think he's some fat dude that hangs around the AAS forums
You must spread some Karma around before giving it to UA_Iron again.
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gettinripped
Guest
Retabolil2 said:I do my best sir!
as I said I dont fight with small guys below 200lbs
BTW who is DBBT?
You must spread some Karma around before giving it to Retabolil2 again.
ret dont stop being ret, i love the russian humor bro. i can hear you saying it as i read it. it makes it that much more funny for me.
silver_shadow
New member
^^^gettinripped said:
Retabolil2
New member
silver_shadow said:^^^
any other serious bodybuilders here or just some pussies?!
roidrage77
New member
5'6 185 lbs 10% b/f ive done every cycle imaginable but for now on staying with hardening agents, no more dbol stuff like that
krishna
New member
198 @ 7.8% bf. I started some clen and have been eating my ass off. Haven't been doing as much cardio, but the clen seems to be keeping my bf down. I'll reach 200 under 10% in no time. I'm 6'00", and my goal is to maintain at 200 @ around 7% bf. I want to be able to do it naturally.
Some people are determined to take steroids no matter what. Even those that have never worked out because it's supposedly a miracle cure. Yes, probably trying to go all natural is the best way, but you know what - just do them. If you're determined to do them, then just do them. Get it over with and if they work out for you - do some more. People will tell you all damn day long not to do things - but what they felt was right for them may not be what others found worked for them. Our bodies are different - extremely different in some circumstances. If you feel you're ready - go for it . . . just read all that you can before partaking. Steroids are like many other things - there's a lot to learn - and when you feel you understand what's best for you, then go for it. Just try to educate yourself as much as possible - they're a drug and they can have some unattractive side effects that you can lessen thru reading all that you can.
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Mr.X
Guest
justyxxxx said:
Ok, so via this logic. Let's say I'm 17 years old, 140lbs. I feel I'm READY to use steroids and I'm going to do it/determined to, is that ok? NO! of course not. I would go to great lengths to talk people out of cycling when they don't need to cycle. I, for one, don't want to see another TRUE LIFE: "I'm a 145lbs. steroid user"
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Mr.X
Guest
justyxxxx said:
In his case, gaining 20-40lbs. with a bulking diet, proper training, supplemenation and rest is very attainable. It's NOT going to happen overnight, it's going to take time, but he can get there naturally.
Need I remind you he's 160lbs.? His genetic limit is not at 160lbs.
noltonr said:
Mr.X said:
It's possibly not- but if he's changed his diet up, added calories, supplemented, etc and it's not working - then I know I'd be looking for some other remedies.
I'm not gonna sit here and argue with you as to whether he's reached his genetic limit or not. In an ideal world, people wouldn't have to get lipo, they wouldn't have to get their stomach stapled and supplements or steroids wouldn't have to be taken to reduce/gain weight. All of us would be patient enough to want to naturally lose weight or gain weight.
We don't live in an ideal world.
If he feels like he's ready - then hey - my opinion is try them. But read as much as you can about them before you do.
You know, I once saw a movie that Clint Eastwood directed and he kept saying to the girl - you're not ready, you're not ready, you're not ready to box . . . and yet she felt she was and finally got him to let her box . . . and she kept wiping the floor with their asses.
If you feel you're ready, then go for the gold.
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Mr.X
Guest
justyxxxx said:
Who said it's not working? he's on here talking about steroids, not on the diet forum working out a bulking diet. He's not ready for steroids and he doesn't need them, period.
justyxxxx said:
You're right, there is no argument, for he has NOT reached his genetic limit.
Mr.X said:
It's his decision and if given the time, he can decide if he's ready. Steroid users are a varied bunch - from coke and meth users to people that won't touch the other stuff and yet will take 1000 mg of test and every other steroid when really, THEY'RE NOT READY FOR THAT. I wouldn't consider the average steroid user some sort of model citizen - from what I've seen. You are probably someone that actually is saying what you are for his benefit and that is good, but some wear the ability to take steroids like it's some sort of fucking badge - it's not.
You DON'T have to reach some genetic limit before taking steroids just as you DON'T have to reach a certain point to take drugs such as ephedra, etc. Really - you could genetically allow the fat to drop off over the course of a few months to years. But we take them to speed up the process. Most could naturally lose most of the fat. It seems to be ok in some people's minds to take pills to speed up the fat loss process, but the opposite is off limits. Caffiene isn't necessarily considered all that healthy for people - and yet we take it.Mr.X said:
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Mr.X
Guest
justyxxxx said:
False, he's not ready, period.
justyxxxx said:
Wrong! you CAN hurt yourself by abusing steroids, so don't go on here recommending steroids to a 160lbs. kid.
Fukkenshredded
New member
You're built like me, bro. At '10 and 161 I was benching 315 and squatting 405 to the floor, past parallel. Steroids gave me ten, fifteen pounds of muscle, but I only used winny and tren. Lifted like a robot. Got reeeelly shredded and then weirdly grew about an inch and a half. Now I'm right at 6' and a sloppy 188. But ripped I'm still skinny - say 175. We'll see 'cause I just got back into the gym. But here's the deal, man. Skinny and strong as fuck is cool.
FS
FS
Mr.X said:
You can hurt yourself by abusing most anything - religion, marijuana, alcohol, and even water . . .
Arnold was a "kid" when he started taking steroids (if his own approximate time statements and those of his training buddy can be believed) and I seriously doubt that he'd reached a "genetic limit" before he took the plunge. And no, I'm not gonna argue with you as to whether he'd actually reached a limit - neither of us would know for sure. I think we put our own limits on ourselves most of the time and sometimes that's not a bad thing.
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Mr.X
Guest
justyxxxx said:
While I cannot disagree that abuse of anything is bad, you are going off-topic here. This case is about possible steroid ABUSE by a 160lbs. guy that has a long way to go before genetic limits are reached.
justyxxxx said:
That was about 40 years ago. Arnold was born in 1947, barely around the time of any steroid knowledge much less selection. Ignorance of others is not an excuse for personal abuse.
Mr.X said:
I wouldn't consider my statement off-topic - it was related.
Arnold seems to be healthy - correct? He did have that heart issue - but my understanding is that was a genetic issue.
Question - why do we want others to believe that steroids are perfectly fine (ie the government) and yet if we really believed this (even steroids used in moderation) . . . why are we trying so hard to convince this guy that he shouldn't use them?
Do you believe that the conservative use of steroids (doctor visits, etc) is still unsafe? I see why you think the natural route is ultimately the safest - but what is so ultimately wrong, in your opinion, for this guy to try steroids if he does what would be considered a safe cycle? Is it because he MAY have to continue taking them to see further gains?
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Anthony Roberts
Guest
Mr.X said:
Exactly...it's a definitional truth...if something is being abused then it's bad.
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Mr.X
Guest
justyxxxx said:
There was no proof to either account, steroids or genetic, so I cannot say. However, using 1 person, Arnold, as an example is not only bias but also ignorant. There are 1000s more who have hurt themselves by being plain stupid and misusing/abusing AS - think of people who develop gyno and need $6000 surgery because they didn't add a $60 bottle of arimidex or nolvadex.
I say this not to make steroids seem like they are dangerous - not at all. This is to keep away the 150lbs. newbie that thinks steroids are a replacement for a bulking diet.
justyxxxx said:
Steroids are perfectly fine for some, but not for everyone. A 110lbs. kid doesn't need steroids. The government misunderstands steroids based on pure ignorance and abusive media.
justyxxxx said:
Where did I say that? you're putting words in my mouth. I'm telling you that advocating steroids for a guy that needs a bulking diet is plain stupid, simple as that.
justyxxxx said:
I've answered this about 10 times. You're taking me into circular logic and wasting my time. He plain and simple doesn't need steroids. End of story.
justyxxxx said:
The best "may" I can tell you, is that he "may" need to go to the diet forum and research a bulking diet, simple as that.
Increase his calories to weight x 20-25 with 50% protein/ 30% carbs/ 20% fat and you'll see him grow like mad.
The best anabolic out there is FOOD.
Mr.X said:
Actually - you're taking me on a circular route. I've already stated OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN - from the beginning - that if increasing calories hasn't worked then he should read all he can before taking steroids. I've stated this over and over again. Arnold is one example, yes - but he's a popular example of a healthy individual that took steroids many years ago and is still kicking. There are probably hundreds of thousands that have taken steroids, if not millions - and there are no real statistics to point out how they're doing today.
You are the one already stating that by taking steroids at his weight - he'd be abusing them. You consistently keep say ABUSING STEROIDS - over and over again. If he's not gaining any weight by other means, then a safe cyle is not ABUSING STEROIDS . . . your statements make it sound like the end of the world is near should he decide to take them. And if he does -then what - is he still abusing them? Is he destined for hell or what? What will become of him - will he go on to do meth or coke? Possibly become homeless? Come on - if you think they're safe - then even if he ultimately chooses to take them - then by that virtue he is not gonna be some drug ABUSER.
There are cycles that generally won't cause gyno - as you know - and he can read all about them by doing just that- as I've already stated in a CIRCULAR way.
M
Mr.X
Guest
justyxxxx said:
Wrong again. I've worked with 30 year olds who were 145lbs., couldn't gain an oz. their whole life. After I put them on a bulking diet they started gaining. The laws of physics apply for everyone, energy intake > energy output = gain, that's a caloric surplus for you. If you take in more energy then you put out, you will gain mass. No matter how you slice it, no matter what metabolic rate you have (minus extreme rare cases), you CAN gain mass with a bulking diet.
Is that simple for you to understand or are you going to keep arguing an empty point?
justyxxxx said:
So, without real statistics, your only figure for steroid use is arnold, that's very diverse and really proves your point. To be exact, I see no point in your argument.
justyxxxx said:
I'm not sure if you have a reading problem, or you just don't understand what I'm telling you.
He does NOT need steroids, period.
It does seem like you yourself probably used/misued steroids when you didn't need to and now feel inclined to defend your personal position on the topic, I can understand that. However, that's your subjective view and it's bias.
Since you are ignorant on the topic, it's clear you will not comprehend the problems with recommending a 160lbs. guy steroids instead of food.
I wonder what you claim is here, so you are saying that if I'm 120lbs., 5-10 and I feel like I reached my genetic potential and "cannot" gain any mass with food, I should use steroids? In another case, maybe I'm having problems with losing bodyfat, I'm 25% bodyfat; my solutions is to use steroids instead of diet, is that ok? With your false logic, it seems the right thing to do, as long as I "justify" it to myself.
How about a highschool wrestler reading this, some 17 year old that thinks steroids are the answer to all his problems. After reading your false information, he would think that it's "ok" to just use steroids because you think you need them. That's exact the reason the government is going after steroids. People like you provide wrong information to users who, in turn, end up on "MTV, I am a 160lbs. steroid user."
You can't seriously sit there and tell me with a straight face that a 160lbs. guy really needs steroids because he "feels" like it. He needs to EAT FOOD, not take steroids.
Mr.X said:
I've been on bulking diets too - and I thought that I couldn't gain weight - I did and they do work. You're trying to argue a point that I agree with - if a bulking diet is giving you the results you want - then why bother with anything else? And if you'll re-read my first post, you'll see that I clearly stated that some people will do things NO MATTER WHAT and I then said to read as much as you can. But somehow you decided to lead us to these waters.
And regarding my statistics, you're right - I didn't provide any - and niether did you. But as to the major consequences that are directly linked to steroid use, you'd have a hard time finding any of those - and you probably won't. So, your argument really doesn't hold much water either. There are plenty of side effects as I've already mentioned (you know, the whole circular thing we've got going on, but I won't mention that again)
And I think I do have a reading problem because I keep reading your posts. You can not NEED something, but still do it anyway. You may not NEED a new car, but you get one anyway because it looks better than your old one. You may not NEED a facelift, but you get one. You may not NEED a breast enhancement, but you do it anyway. And if all of this is supposedly safe if you follow the proper procedures, then there really isn't anything wrong with the NEED. Do you comprehend this? Both of us can throw personal insults, but I think I've avoided that thus far (give the man a ribbon). But some of us will do things NO MATTER WHAT as I already mentioned in my first post in this topic, and my response was for those people. But I do not see anything wrong with trying steroids if other alternatives aren't giving you the results that you want . . .
And regarding your extremes, we can all reach for the extreme examples - but I try to avoid those. 160lbs doesn't sound like an extreme example to me, whereas in my opinion, 17 years old is an extreme example and 120 lbs might be - depending upon conditions that YOU may or may not be aware of.
Of course, we should all wait unti we're 200 lbs before considering alternatives . . . so saith Mr. X and then it was.
M
Mr.X
Guest
justyxxxx said:
The best way to go about it is to talk them out of using steroids when they don't need them. Making an assumption they'll do it no matter what is like taking a negative stand before knowing the facts.
justyxxxx said:
You're comparing steroids to new cars, there is no comparison. You're just making excuses that allow you to justify telling people to misuse steroids.
justyxxxx said:
I've never considered plastic surgery "safe." However, that's for another post, you're getting off topic.
justyxxxx said:
Helping people use steroids when they don't need them is completely wrong. If you wanted to "help" them, you'd try to talk them out of using steroids, not help them justify a wrong.
justyxxxx said:
I can't help but to call you ignorant. At first you say, steroids can be misused and abused by people that will do them "NO MATTER WHAT", now you say they are a solution for a bad diet. At 160lbs., this guy hasn't seen enough alternatives.
His alternative is to get his diet together and start bulking not use steroids.
justyxxxx said:
The 17 year old example is exactly what happens. Young kids come on these forums and listen to people like you tell them to "just use steroids, since you're going to do it NO MATTER WHAT", then we get the bad media PR and government attention.
justyxxxx said:
You can disagree all you want, but suggesting steroid use as an "alternative" to a bulking diet is just plain stupid. If you give these people no alternatives but to "JUST DO IT SINCE YOU WILL DO IT NO MATTER WHAT", what do you think happens? they listen to your false logic and start steroids.
I wont stand by a let an ignorant member spead false information on steroid use. Steroids are for people who have reached their genetic limits naturally and now want an aid.
Steroids are not a joke or a supplement, they CAN hurt the user if abused. I have seen peple suffer liver problems from going on long anadrol/dbol cycles - steroids are no joke.
If you are a newbie reading this, consider your diet, training, cardio, supplements and rest first before you think about steroids. Remember, the strongest anabolic you can use is FOOD.
Mr.X said:
Oh god - you're wearing me out. Maybe you have time to post here all day long, but this will be my last one for the night.
Have you ever dreamed of doing something and it was so intense that you just had to do it? You studied, researched, and did all that you could because it was the DREAM and you HAD TO DO IT. You waited years and years . . . heard all these great things and finally - YOU LIVE THE DREAM. You DO IT. It then goes one of two ways - it works great for you or it doesn't. I've seen'em both. And I'm not saying that this is his dream . .
You're acting like my statement regarding HAVE TO DO THEM NO MATTER WHAT is a bad thing. It's not. I've had to do things - that I considered to be good AND sometimes bad . . . you're taking the stance that what I'm saying is the negative route. It's not. Some things are learning experiences - for the good or for the bad. Thru research, as I've already suggested, you will sometimes take the initial steps and decide not to do what you thought was the oasis in the desert. But, sometimes you will - and it is the thing you desired and the end result is what you wanted. Your take on it - which is Nancy Reagan's Just Say No stance - it's your take. My take is Well, Maybe - but - research it first and do it only after you've researched.
Everything you've mentioned - he will read about . . . liver problems, etc, etc.
And spreading false informatoin? ha - you're hilarious. You think that my reasoning is false! Some people WILL do things no matter what. I said READ READ READ READ - do you comprehend this? When you tell someone - NO - some people take that as a YES.
While you want to suggest that I'm the ignorant one, you're totally disregarding and ignoring the things that I've said. I agree - diet first - exercise first - do those first and I agree - if those don't work - then you know what - try them. Get it over with - you may never do them again. I've done coke once (ten years ago and liked it) and I've done marijuana a few times (it was ok), but I'm not ABUSING those - as you've led people to believe they'll just start on some massive steroid downward spiral. People try things all the time - you can be Daddy X and say No - and you can consider me Abusive JustyXXXX and say - yeah, you know what - read up and if you're gonna do them - go ahead but look at the side effects as well. That doesn't lead to abuse. Just as drinking alcohol doesn't lead to immediate liver damage (and alcohol was illegal once too).
So - it's his decision - and you can Just Say No all day long . . . and that won't change anything if his mind is set on them. And even if it is, in my opinion - there's nothing I've seen wrong with that. Because my mind was set on them at one point as well - and that's another story . . . I'll reserve that for my cars and face lifts future thread.
M
Mr.X
Guest
justyxxxx said:
Yes, I'm wearing down your false logic, very true.
justyxxxx said:
Just because you "dream" something, it doesn't mean you need to do it. Steroid use is not something you just dream about and do.
justyxxxx said:
Ok, so if it's not a "bad thing", can you tell would it be ok, for, let's say a 17 year old highschool football player to do steroids because the 'alternatives' aren't working 'in his view'? I mean if you are planning to make the "DO THEM NO MATTER WHAT CLAIM" you have to take all this into account. I've seen plenty of kids "dream" the wrong thing, remember most of the users who come here that are not ready will be around 18-22 years old, an age where they are "always right."
justyxxxx said:
Hopefully, me posting here will prevent people from thinking steroids are the end to all their problems and that they "should just do them."
justyxxxx said:
yes, I hope they read that instead of the "JUST DO IT SINCE YOU'RE GOING TO DO IT NO MATTER WHAT" statement.
justyxxxx said:
I think your logic is false. Allowing people to think they can just use steroids as an alternative to diet / food is just plain wrong.
justyxxxx said:
Actually, you said:
justyxxxx said:
You did mention "research", but the point here is that you're advocating misuse and possible abuse of steroids. Instead of telling people they don't need steroids, you just assume they will do them no matter what you say. In my experience, I have talked MANY people out of using steroids when they don't need them - even when their mind was "made up" and the "dream" was there.
justyxxxx said:
Again, you're going back to the same point. They should not "just try steroids", they should look at their diet and training regiment to see what's wrong and what can be improved. The solution is usually in the the diet - 80% of the time.
justyxxxx said:
Point out the "downward" spiral for me please, where did I say that? I said steroid abuse happens because of false information provided to the user. Just because you like coke it doesn't mean that's what everyone should do. The "just do it" logic is not a wise one with steroids.
justyxxxx said:
I am here to help educate people on steroid use. Part of what I do here is talk people OUT of using steroids when they don't need them.
justyxxxx said:
Saying no and providing logic behind it, as I have done, is very effective. I've worked with many people who have gone natural thanks to me. They stayed natural for about 4-5 years, reached a plateau, then considered AS use.
silver_shadow
New member
i remember this 16 yr old kid back when i first joined who thought that he could get approval to use AAS here on EF. turned out he had a *solid* 3 mths of training experience behind him and he saw other 15-16 yr old kids at his gym become "HYOOGE" by using steroids. anyway, everyone here told him he was crazy. the guy didn't take "no" for an answer and kept coming back for approval each time being told not to rather harshly. we pointed him to the diet and training boards and he finally accepted that he could use steroids much later in life. a few wks later he posted up saying that he had been eating like a horse and busting his ass in the gym while the rest of his peers were wasting time drinking. he said that he felt proud of himself and thanked everyone for pointing him in the correct direction.
there could be many more like him. on the flip side, there could be even more who'd just say "fuck you, you can't stop me". but some of the former would have still gone ahead and used steroids without first learning proper training/eating had there been no one to tell them it wasn't a bright idea. the important thing is that there is at least some chance that kids are not going to abuse steroids mindlessly if someone patiently reasons out with them. i've done steroids at 22 and i'm not proud of the fact that i used it as a crutch without having a clue how to eat and train. i now wish i had kept it for later.
there could be many more like him. on the flip side, there could be even more who'd just say "fuck you, you can't stop me". but some of the former would have still gone ahead and used steroids without first learning proper training/eating had there been no one to tell them it wasn't a bright idea. the important thing is that there is at least some chance that kids are not going to abuse steroids mindlessly if someone patiently reasons out with them. i've done steroids at 22 and i'm not proud of the fact that i used it as a crutch without having a clue how to eat and train. i now wish i had kept it for later.
njmuscleguy
New member
I don't want to get caught in this argument here... but I am starting to get annoyed with people thinking that if you're 160 pounds or so, you should NOT start steroids.... now, if you qualified that statement by saying if you're under 24 years old *and* at 160lbs... then I would tend to agree.... natural test levels and a good diet will see you through.... but if you're over 25 years old, have tried naturally through diet and still haven't gotten decent gains... then why the heck shouldn't you start AAS?? especially if you're sufficiently prepared?
M
Mr.X
Guest
njmuscleguy said:
You are correct, age does play a factor in what I say; however, years training and dieting is also a factor. I can't agree in having a 25 yr old going on AS after 6 months of a diet/training regiment. It is a subjective call to a certain degree.
njmuscleguy
New member
of course.... I wouldn't advocate jumping on board if someone hadn't put the time in at the gym and followed a proper diet.... that's just dumb... but it's just frustrating when you read people's posts that scoff at anyone who's under 200lbs... I'm 5'7" and personally, I don't want to be over 200lbs!
M
Mr.X
Guest
njmuscleguy said:of course.... I wouldn't advocate jumping on board if someone hadn't put the time in at the gym and followed a proper diet.... that's just dumb... but it's just frustrating when you read people's posts that scoff at anyone who's under 200lbs... I'm 5'7" and personally, I don't want to be over 200lbs!
If you read back the posts. He does put out his height and there is a lack of diet/training knowledge present.
I am a strong advocate of making sure the user is fully aware of the need to reach genetic limits before using AS. I found the most bad PR and media/gov. attention comes from a particular group of users - newbies/teens/kids who are out to use steroids as a quick fix.
Mr.X said:
Mr. X has been right on the buttone here. Unless a person has been lifting for years and has been eating right should they even think about AAS. Even then, AAS need only be taken when you hit that platueau where more growth just wont happen. I personally lifted from the age of 16 to the age of 28 before I even touched the stuff. At that point I was pretty sure that I wasnt growing much more and needed help.
M
Mr.X
Guest
maldorf said:
That's good to hear bro
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