American wealth distribution - is this a problem

[MattTheSkywalker]

We've heard a lot of it before but it is worth hearing again.

Top 10% = annual income of $81,000 per year.
Top1% = annual income of 290,000
Top .1% = annual income of $790,000

13,000 richest families earn as much as the poorest 20million.

Bottom 20% has actually gotten poorer in the last 20 years in terms of 1998 dollars.

Median household income is $41000 per yaer. 50% of Americans earn under $26,000 per year.

What does this mean to you? To all of us?

 

[WODIN]

Just look at Argentina's economic implosion over the past two years.

 

[GinNJuice]

What does this mean to you? To all of us?

It means that everyone should explain this to their kids. It means that kids need to stay in school instead of ditching to go smoke some crack. It means that kids need to have a desire to better themselves and strive to be in the higher income brackets. It means that people need to have the responsibility of their own success.

Thats all I have to say about that

 

[Ffactor]

I have no problems with this distribution of wealth.

 

[HappyScrappy]

I hear those stats and it just makes me want to be in that top percent.
Then I can buy and sell the increasing number of people in the lower percents as a way to amuse myself and exploit them to increase my upward movement in that top percent.

 

[Steroid_Virgin]

It means it only takes very few highly skilled and motivated people to employ a country full of less motivated and skilled people who cannot create their own employment opportunities. There has to be some reward for employing all those people.

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

Well, it's kinda scary to me that the bottom 20% has actually gotten poorer.

Another factoid that I left out: the last time wealth distribution followed this pattern was the 1920's. we know what happened then.

Can it happen again?

 

[WODIN]

Actually Matt this time I think there will be a social revolution and nothing that the existing govt. can do is going to stop it. Mainly because the existing govt. irregardless of party is sucking on the money tit and not giving a shit about wealth distribution.

Get rid of Central banking and you are taking a good first step.

 

[Code]

Top income earners = People who busted their ass, except for 2% of them who had their money handed to them, which is fine, I don't want money handed to me that I haven't earned anyway.

It's the lazy indigent trailer park residents who have issues with the distribution of wealth. They feel they should be given money simply for being a US citizen or because other people have "too much" money.

 

[Doktor Bollix]

Are those figures up to date? I have a hard time picturing anyone raising kids or even owning a car on $41,000 a year.

Why don't we just start eating the bottom 50%? That would free up some cash, though the farmers probably wouldn't like it.

 

[HappyScrappy]

It's the lazy indigent trailer park residents who have issues with the distribution of wealth. They feel they should be given money simply for being a US citizen or because other people have "too much" money.

yes, but very rarely do you see the people in the top 2% getting pissed off that they are there and then going about killing people or rioting.

the bottom group on the other hand does this now and then.

that is pretty much the only reason to keep them happy, aside from any larger moral issue IMO.

that said, the people in the top 2% do go kill people - don't get me wrong, but they usually have other organized groups of people do it. police, the military, etc.

 

[Code]

yes, but very rarely do you see the people in the top 2% getting pissed off that they are there and then going about killing people or rioting.

the bottom group on the other hand does this now and then.

that is pretty much the only reason to keep them happy, aside from any larger moral issue IMO.

that said, the people in the top 2% do go kill people - don't get me wrong, but they usually have other organized groups of people do it. police, the military, etc.

True, but these bottom feeders can riot all they want. Darwinism prevails again.

Those who aren't smart enough to earn more money can riot and kill themselves off. Less people I have to drive by in traffic.

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

Re: Re: American wealth distribution - is this a problem

It means that everyone should explain this to their kids. It means that kids need to stay in school instead of ditching to go smoke some crack. It means that kids need to have a desire to better themselves and strive to be in the higher income brackets. It means that people need to have the responsibility of their own success.

Thats all I have to say about that

You didn't smoke crack. You want to better yourself.

Are you in the top 1%? If not, why?

 

[HappyScrappy]

True, but these bottom feeders can riot all they want. Darwinism prevails again.

Those who aren't smart enough to earn more money can riot and kill themselves off. Less people I have to drive by in traffic.

well, that is all fine as long as we aren't in that bottom percent - which is fine.
and that is all fine if they only go after each other.

it is less convenient if they decided to go fuck up the top percenters instead of just each other.

also, on a side note, this has me thinking - is porno something consumed by everyone? does it cross all socio-economic lines, or is it mainly something that the masses seek?
to me it seems that prono is a broad range of ideas, not a particular product, therefore it is something that can indeed span those gaps.

 

[GinNJuice]

Re: Re: Re: American wealth distribution - is this a problem

You didn't smoke crack. You want to better yourself.

Are you in the top 1%? If not, why?

You're damn right! I grew up in the getto and was poor as hell. My mom wouldn't accept any of the government handouts that we easily qualified for.

I worked my ass off in school, got an education and got the hell out of the getto ON MY OWN!

I'm not YET in the top 1%, but I'm doing pretty damn well for myself, income wise.

 

[Code]

well, that is all fine as long as we aren't in that bottom percent - which is fine.
and that is all fine if they only go after each other.

it is less convenient if they decided to go fuck up the top percenters instead of just each other.

also, on a side note, this has me thinking - is porno something consumed by everyone? does it cross all socio-economic lines, or is it mainly something that the masses seek?
to me it seems that prono is a broad range of ideas, not a particular product, therefore it is something that can indeed span those gaps.

Eh, as long as they don't come for me, I don't care.

Even LESS idiots on the road if they do manage to get a few of the top 10%.



I'm in full blown curmudgeon mode today.

 

[Doktor Bollix]

True, but these bottom feeders can riot all they want. Darwinism prevails again.

Those who aren't smart enough to earn more money can riot and kill themselves off. Less people I have to drive by in traffic.

So why don't we cut the bullshit and take things to their logical conclusion? Anyone deemed surplus to requirements, such as people not as smart as Code, the elderly, the sick, those with bad luck, short people, fat people etc be gassed and industrially processed to make a fabulous new road surface. That should free up traffic nicely.

 

[A.R. DIAMOND]

What amuses me is that some of you responded like you are in the top .1%,which we all know to be a lie.

 

[WODIN]

Re: Re: Re: Re: American wealth distribution - is this a problem

I'm not YET in the top 1%, but I'm doing pretty damn well for myself, income wise.

In terms of true wealth I would bet you everything I OWN that you will never get in the top 1%. You weren't born to it, your not getting it and if you think again.

 

[GinNJuice]

Re: Re: Re: Re: American wealth distribution - is this a problem

You're damn right! I grew up in the getto and was poor as hell. My mom wouldn't accept any of the government handouts that we easily qualified for.

I worked my ass off in school, got an education and got the hell out of the getto ON MY OWN!

I'm not YET in the top 1%, but I'm doing pretty damn well for myself, income wise.

Furthermore, it pisses me off that people who came from where I did complain about needing more government assistance. I didn't get any of that while growing up and since I wasn't a "minority" I couldn't get any of the scholarships either.... except for a $3,000 college grant that I got for being low-income..... I had to pay for everything myself!

 

[Code]

So why don't we cut the bullshit and take things to their logical conclusion? Anyone deemed surplus to requirements, such as people not as smart as Code, the elderly, the sick, those with bad luck, short people, fat people etc be gassed and industrially processed to make a fabulous new road surface. That should free up traffic nicely.

YAY!

I will publish a manifesto of properties everyone must have to be considered for the new world to come.

 

[HappyScrappy]

I plan on being in the top .1% within the next 10 years.

I actually plan on being there in the next 5, but I'm giving myself a little cushion

whoever was saying we should go Hitler, while that seems like a good idea at first - "kill everyone that isn't me - because I sure like me" - history has taught us that is bad. because then everyone wants to fight you and you end up dead.

my mom always say that I worry her and that I tend to take the wrong lessons from things.

 

[GinNJuice]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: American wealth distribution - is this a problem

In terms of true wealth I would bet you everything I OWN that you will never get in the top 1%. You weren't born to it, your not getting it and if you think again.

Wodin, that would probably be a pretty good bet. However, I am constantly trying to improve my situation, so you never know.

I am safely into the 10% area though..... not bad for a poor kid that didn't have food for days.

 

[Code]

I plan on being in the top .1% within the next 10 years.

I actually plan on being there in the next 5, but I'm giving myself a little cushion

whoever was saying we should go Hitler, while that seems like a good idea at first - "kill everyone that isn't me - because I sure like me" - history has taught us that is bad. because then everyone wants to fight you and you end up dead.

my mom always say that I worry her and that I tend to take the wrong lessons from things.

Nah, no one liked Hitler because of the mustache. His rumba skills almost made up for the mutache....almost.

 

[HappyScrappy]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: American wealth distribution - is this a problem

I am safely into the 10% area though..... not bad for a poor kid that didn't have food for days.

I hear that.

growing up poor has given me a weird outlook on life.
at least, I think that is the cause.

I wonder if I had grown up wealthy if I would have a singled minded focus and drive on money and hate everyone that isn't me like I do now?

 

[Doktor Bollix]

What amuses me is that some of you responded like you are in the top .1%,which we all know to be a lie.

Excellent point, but that is the American way, people actually think that if they talk-the-talk, they can walk-the-walk by proxy. Like if you put your nose up at the poor and pretend you are rich and bitch about the Bottom Feeders, that makes you vicariously rich, and the real thing will magically happen to you.

That's why so many poor people vote Republican.

 

[Code]

Excellent point, but that is the American way, people actually think that if they talk-the-talk, they can walk-the-walk by proxy. Like if you put your nose up at the poor and pretend you are rich and bitch about the Bottom Feeders, that makes you vicariously rich, and the real thing will magically happen to you.

That's why so many poor people vote Republican.

Most poor who vote republican do so because they own guns and like owning guns and often use them to get their food ( as in hunting).

I vote republican because I like owning my guns, and I hate the UN along with some blatant party lines I'll spare you the time of reading them.

Except in an online environment I don't know many people who walk a different walk. But then I don't walk through many trailer parks or ghettos.

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

Top income earners = People who busted their ass, except for 2% of them who had their money handed to them, which is fine, I don't want money handed to me that I haven't earned anyway.

It's the lazy indigent trailer park residents who have issues with the distribution of wealth. They feel they should be given money simply for being a US citizen or because other people have "too much" money.

Yes, half the country that is under $26k is lazy and indigent. That must be it.

90% of the country is under $80,000 per year. 80K is not really that much.

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

Excellent point, but that is the American way, people actually think that if they talk-the-talk, they can walk-the-walk by proxy. Like if you put your nose up at the poor and pretend you are rich and bitch about the Bottom Feeders, that makes you vicariously rich, and the real thing will magically happen to you.

That's why so many poor people vote Republican.

This must be the mindset of people who lease expensive cars and buy everything on credit. The "I am not one of them" mentality.

Our society's depiction of the poor as "bad" has done more to isolate them and cause scorn, yet how does our society really benefit from having a large number of poor people?

 

[Doktor Bollix]

It's a fact that most wealth in America is inherited.

This Darwinian notion of wealth distribution was used to justify appalling expoitation of workers in Europe during the 18th and 19th century and provoked revolutions and the development of communism. So long term it's not a winner.

Rich people really aren't any better than people further down the trough, people like YOU.

 

[BangedUp]

OK, so what is the solution?

Equal wealth distribution?

 

[Ffactor]

Most poor who vote republican do so because they own guns and like owning guns and often use them to get their food ( as in hunting).

I vote republican because I like owning my guns, and I hate the UN along with some blatant party lines I'll spare you the time of reading them.

Except in an online environment I don't know many people who walk a different walk. But then I don't walk through many trailer parks or ghettos.

I think most poor WHITE people vote republican because of issues like affirmative action and welfare and gun control. Poor BLACKS typically do not vote republican.

 

[Code]

Yes, half the country that is under $26k is lazy and indigent. That must be it.

90% of the country is under $80,000 per year. 80K is not really that much.

If the people dragging our national average income down would spend more time educating themselves or doing what it takes to earn more money rather than bitching and moaning about their situation this would be a useful debate.

And yes, I think that if you're happy making 26k a year and not relying on tax-payer funded welfare systems, then maybe they're not lazy.

And 26k is indigent by definition.

Truth of the matter is, it's mostly college freshman taking courses at liberal community colleges who get more upset at the distribution of wealth than the poor.

 

[Prometheus]

Inequality of wealth has existed since the dawn of history, and will always continue. Attempts to eliminate it have only, at best, reduced the overall standard of living and bankrupted the society implementing them.

THe best that can be hoped for is a system where equal opportunity of wealth exists. Although imperfect, the US has had the most equal-opportunity system, hence its success.

It remains to be seen how long that will last, between interference from misguided do-gooders forcing charity by legislation and outright theft and abuse of the Constitutional framework by those in power.

 

[A.R. DIAMOND]

I have a problem with your guys generalizations.

All people who make under a certain amount of money are lazy and indigent.

Now I come from wealth but am not ignorant to realize that the country is powered by the working class.

We have owned the Worlds Largest Television and Record Cabinet producing firm in the country for 47 years now.

The hardest working people I know work in our factories for around 30 grand.

Im sure working at Mcdonalds is more stressful and difficult than what some of you guys are currently doing.(wasting time on the internet)

Never ever criticize another man for his occupation.YOU do not know what he has been through.Perhaps he got injured and has had a brain operation.Never step on someone or ridicule a working man.

I can clearly see with your attitudes why some of you will never be in the .1%. You lack an understanding of what makes a business run.Good luck finding people to work under you with the "im better than you mentality".

Andrew Carnegie,JD Rockefeller and JP morgan would all be turning over in their graves.Some of you obviously lack what these men had.

 

[GinNJuice]

Matt, I see you've ignored my replies.

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

If the people dragging our national average income down would spend more time educating themselves or doing what it takes to earn more money rather than bitching and moaning about their situation this would be a useful debate.

And yes, I think that if you're happy making 26k a year and not relying on tax-payer funded welfare systems, then maybe they're not lazy.

And 26k is indigent by definition.

Truth of the matter is, it's mostly college freshman taking courses at liberal community colleges who get more upset at the distribution of wealth than the poor.

You'd be complainging if you only made $26K a year.

If so much of the wealth is concentrated in the hands of relatively few people, how can those on the lower end get any of it? what should they do? Whenever someone makes money, someone loses it. We can't all make $1m per year. Not possible.

Taxpayer funding for welfare is less than 1% of the federal budget, so why is that such a big deal?

 

[Doktor Bollix]

OK, so what is the solution?

Equal wealth distribution?

Not the solution. In socialist Scandinavian countries during the 70's and 80's the lifestyle of the average person compared favorably with the average American. But people in top jobs CEO's etc got paid badly by American standards, and this was de-motivating. Why work so hard to achieve if there is no pay-off?

 

[Lestat]

Good thread.

 

[Code]

Andrew Carnegie,JD Rockefeller and JP morgan would all be turning over in their graves.Some of you obviously lack what these men had.

OUCH, bad bad examples.

Carnegie invented the concept of corporate owned towns and company stores. He faced more than one riot because of terribly skewed working conditions. He was egotistical to boot. He cared very very little for those working for him.

Nice try though, you did manage to come off as holier than thou though.

 

[BangedUp]

Not the solution. In socialist Scandinavian countries during the 70's and 80's the lifestyle of the average person compared favorably with the average American. But people in top jobs CEO's etc got paid badly by American standards, and this was de-motivating. Why work so hard to achieve if there is no pay-off?

Agreed, so what is the solution?

 

[HappyScrappy]

We have owned the Worlds Largest Television and Record Cabinet producing firm in the country for 47 years now.

have you ever tried to lift one of those things?!

you'd have to be a STEELBEAST just to get it off the ground.

 

[Code]

Agreed, so what is the solution?

We could use another literary reference as a solution, Harrison Bergeron.

All the motivated and smart people in the top 10% will get ear implants that blast loud noises in the owner's ear at random times to break their concentration.

All the lazy unmotivated people will get money handed to them for doing simple tricks like reciting the alphabet or counting to 20.

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: American wealth distribution - is this a problem

Wodin, that would probably be a pretty good bet. However, I am constantly trying to improve my situation, so you never know.

I am safely into the 10% area though..... not bad for a poor kid that didn't have food for days.

yes, I am ignoring your awesome line of thinking.

Do you want a pat on the back because you're making over $80K? Yawn.

When I made those kind of numbers I felt like you do. But now that I support and employ others I feel differently.

As I said above, the current wealth distribution and trends mirrors the 1920's. That decade ended with the Great Deperssion, from which no one benefitted.

So i ask again, will this recur?

 

[A.R. DIAMOND]

Code,

Did you not know that Carneigie started out by sweeping floors.

For nearly 30 years he would have been one of the guys you scoff at today when he first started.

Bad example,far from it.


Tell me `O knowledgeable one,what kind of enterprise would run on people who only make 100K a year......


Like I said,

Never step on someone because he makes less money than you.One day you may work for him.

 

[HappyScrappy]

We could use another literary reference as a solution, Harrison Bergeron.

LOL - holy shit!
I was just looking that up this morning!

I couldn't remember if it was Vonnegut or Bradbury and I couldn't quite get the name (I have problems remembering names) - but then it all clicked.

weird

 

[Code]

Code,

Did you not know that Carneigie started out by sweeping floors.

For nearly 30 years he would have been one of the guys you scoff at today when he first started.

Everyone starts out somewhere, does that mean Carnegie was a caring man who had oodles of respect for those who worked for him? No, not by a long shot. He stepped on dozens of people to get to where he was, and he probably wasn't apologetic for it.

That's why the distribution of wealth is so disparate, people like you who think you have to pander to everyone Tom, Dick and Mary just because they clean up shit off the floor.

If you don't use the system, the system will use you.

 

[WODIN]

Andrew Carnegie,JD Rockefeller and JP morgan would all be turning over in their graves.Some of you obviously lack what these men had.

LMAO!!!


JP Morgan --- After he died his net personal estate was worth less than 1 mil. That's still alot of money by even today's standards however it doesn't diminish the fact that over 99.995% of his entire fortune was based in debt.

 

[Fast Twitch Fiber]

My base salary is $26K ( I make an extra 2 or 3K with overtime). I rent a two bedroom 750 sq. ft. apartment and drive a 99 Chevy Cavalier. I have no problem paying my bills and am even putting some money in a Roth IRA. While I'm not rich likeBill Gates , I never considered myself to be in a bad position.

I didn't know I was POOR and LAZY until I read this thread.

 

[Doktor Bollix]

Agreed, so what is the solution?

There's no solution. "The poor will always be with us" isn't that what Jesus said? But, no other industrialized nation has the type of poverty America does though. We have a whole medium sized third world country within a country and it gets worse all the time.

What I think is funny is that the Working Class of the Country (who call themselves the Middle Class for some reason) sneer at the poor and attribute all of these problems to moral defects, and think they will end up on the right side of the issue as long as they are arrogant and elitist. You can't bullshit yourself rich. It just can't happen.

 

[A.R. DIAMOND]

Wodin,
you may want to edit your post......JP was one of the richest even after his death.


The Morgan Estate

At the time of his death in Rome, in 1913, Morgan was one of the world's richest men, though not one of its best-loved. Alternately hated and praised because of his financial power, he won at least a measure of respect from fellow coin collectors. An impressive, rectangular John Pierpont Morgan Memorial medal was pictured in the American Journal of Numismatics and Proceedings of the American Numismatic Society 1913.

 

[Code]

My base salary is $26K ( I make an extra 2 or 3K with overtime). I rent a two bedroom 750 sq. ft. apartment and drive a 99 Chevy Cavalier. I have no problem paying my bills and am even putting some money in a Roth IRA. While I'm not rich likeBill Gates , I never considered myself to be in a bad position.

I didn't know I was POOR and LAZY until I read this thread.

I'm sure there are literally dozens of people who are smart and make 26k a year and are doing their part to get into a different tax bracket.

No shame in it. Kudos to those who are doing what it takes to make more money.

I used to work as a roofer when I was a teen and thought making 100 bucks a week was serious cash flow. The they told me I had to pay 35 of that 100 bucks to a union and I quit.

Fact is, there HAS to be an uneven distribution of wealth or we'd have slave labor....take your pick.

 

[ZenMachine]

I didn't know I was POOR and LAZY until I read this thread.

We did, we just didn't have the heart to tell you..

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

What I think is funny is that the Working Class of the Country (who call themselves the Middle Class for some reason) sneer at the poor and attribute all of these problems to moral defects, and think they will end up on the right side of the issue as long as they are arrogant and elitist. You can't bullshit yourself rich. It just can't happen.

Well said Doktor. People just want to have someone to look down on, and the poor are an easy, powerless target.

 

[A.R. DIAMOND]

http://www.time.com/time/time100/builder/other/barons.html


There is a good article about Morgan,Rockefeller and Carnegie

 

[Code]

There's no solution. "The poor will always be with us" isn't that what Jesus said? But, no other industrialized nation has the type of poverty America does though. We have a whole medium sized third world country within a country and it gets worse all the time.

What I think is funny is that the Working Class of the Country (who call themselves the Middle Class for some reason) sneer at the poor and attribute all of these problems to moral defects, and think they will end up on the right side of the issue as long as they are arrogant and elitist. You can't bullshit yourself rich. It just can't happen.

So if you know there is no solution and that the poor will always be here, why get your panties in a knot over people who also realize this?

We're a classist nation, hell the WORLD is classist. You want to clean shit and win a Nobel prize for it, you better head for another planet.

No one said the poor have mental defects. Being unmotivated is a personal choice, being slothful. Although I'm sure it's hard to be motivated when you make so little money.

I don't sneer at people who clean shit for a living, but I'm sure as hell not going to give them more money or respect simply because they do menial labor.

Respect doesn't (or shouldn't) be related at all to income. Respect is reserved for personal character like honor, integrity and honesty.

If you think a janitor deserves respect just because he makes sure there is plenty of soap in the bathroom you probably need to learn how and when to give out respect.

 

[underoos]

We have uneven distribution of wealth because of uneven distribution of ability, too. don't forget that.

Genetics plays a large part.

All you people seem to be mentioning is work ethic and birthright.

If you want to increase the overall wealth of people, try genetic engineering. Though it can be said that some of the gain would be mooted because of relativity, there would be an overall increase , too, I think...

 

[Code]

We have uneven distribution of wealth because of uneven distribution of ability, too. don't forget that.

Genetics plays a large part.

All you people seem to be mentioning is work ethic and birthright.

If you want to increase the overall wealth of people, try genetic engineering. Though it can be said that some of the gain would be moot because ability is relative, there would be an overall increase , too, I think...

I already mentioned that with the Harrison Bergeron reference.

But the skill is uneven because the motivation to learn new, profitable skills is uneven. And thankfully so, if everyone learned what I did then I'd have less marketable skills.

 

[Doktor Bollix]

.

No one said the poor have mental defects. Being unmotivated is a personal choice, being slothful. Although I'm sure it's hard to be motivated when you make so little money.

Neither did I. I said moral defects. And I was complaining of the way the working class apes the prejudices of their masters and sneers at the less fortunate (and luck has a lot to do with it, nobody picks their parents). Meanwhile the moral defects of the ruling class rarely inspires any outrage, unless the looting and pillaging of corporate America becomes surreally excessive, as with Enron et al.

 

[the nature boy]

I wonder what part education plays in terms of money distribution? What percentage of inner city or rural kids in bad schools move up the socio-economic ladder? and what percentage of kids in good schools move down?

I think one cause of the growing lower class is the lack of manufacturing jobs that have all gone to the 3rd world. Those people that once worked those jobs probably had to take a pay cut and work somewhere else.

But I think the answer lies in education.

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

I wonder what part education plays in terms of money distribution? What percentage of inner city or rural kids in bad schools move up the socio-economic ladder? and what percentage of kids in good schools move down?

I think one cause of the growing lower class is the lack of manufacturing jobs that have all gone to the 3rd world. Those people that once worked those jobs probably had to take a pay cut and work somewhere else.

But I think the answer lies in education.

Actually, the odds are overwhelming that you will end up exactly in the same status as you were born into.

The salaries of huigher educated peopel generally trend upward, but overwhelmingly, advanced education (cpast HS) moves you higher in the middle class only.

Grad degree holders typically populate the 70-80th percentile. Higher, but nowhere near wealthy.

Education plays next to ZERO role among the top 1% and above.

 

[Doktor Bollix]

I think one cause of the growing lower class is the lack of manufacturing jobs that have all gone to the 3rd world. Those people that once worked those jobs probably had to take a pay cut and work somewhere else.

True. That's globalization, if there's someone in the world who can do your job cheaper, in the future your job will go to them. That's why tens of thousands of German car workers have lost their jobs to non-union auto-workers making $16 per hour down south. We are the cheap labor now.

But as long as Americans can rely on their smug snobbery and think they can bullshit themselves rich regardless of how many people fall by the wayside, it's all good I suppose.

 

[GinNJuice]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: American wealth distribution - is this a problem

yes, I am ignoring your awesome line of thinking.

Actually, I was refering to my two previous posts that were in direct reply to your qustion:

You didn't smoke crack. You want to better yourself.

Are you in the top 1%? If not, why?

Funny, you use a condescending tone when refering to my "awesome line of thinking" when I simply gave you a real world, first-person example. It seems to me that you'll reject any opinion that doesn't agree with yours.

 

[VicTusDeuS]

Education plays next to ZERO role among the top 1% and above.

Sam Walton had no college education..Would be the richest man alive if he was still around.

 

[Code]

Props to Matt for giving us a cool thread to bitch over!

 

[Fonz]

80K is not really that much.

Matt, sometimes you crack me up.........LOL

Fonz

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

Matt, sometimes you crack me up.........LOL

Fonz

Fonz,

Context, conetxt.

When you think of the richest 10% of the USA, it tends to conjure higher numbers, no?

The real dollars are so tied up at the very high end that - compared to them - 80K seems insiginficant.

 

[Fonz]

Fonz,

Context, conetxt.

When you think of the richest 10% of the USA, it tends to conjure higher numbers, no?

The real dollars are so tied up at the very high end that - compared to them - 80K seems insiginficant.

.

Like someone else said, I think it really does come down to education.

My family is probably in the Top 5% in Spain.

Out of my cousins that are my age or more(24).

Every single one of them has a Bachelors and a masters.

Some of them even have doctorates.

Sucks being me, as the pressure to succeed is HIGH to say the least.

Failure is not a word my family understands.

Anyways, back to the topic at hand:

The USA is just so different from other countries that its hard to
quantify. There's no simple rule of thumb you can follow.

Fonz

 

[Code]

.



The USA is just so different from other countries that its hard to
quantify. There's no simple rule of thumb you can follow.

Fonz

Well, the thread title is rather specific in it's geography, that being America.

There certainly is no rule of thumb to use. And if Matt is using Household income then yeah, 80k isn't that much.

Single income household earnings of 80k indicate education or very very specific skillsets in the blue collar industry and/or dangerous work, like underwater welding.

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

Well, the thread title is rather specific in it's geography, that being America.

There certainly is no rule of thumb to use. And if Matt is using Household income then yeah, 80k isn't that much.

Single income household earnings of 80k indicate education or very very specific skillsets in the blue collar industry and/or dangerous work, like underwater welding.

Median household income is $41K. 80K is therefore a lot for a household. Perhaps sometimes we forget how lucky we are to have the opportunities we have had.

 

[Steroid_Virgin]

This argument has been seriously flawed from the get go. There is no such thing as "median" across such a diverse base at the united states.. that number is very deceptive, because not all areas have the same cost of living..

80K in NYC = jack shit
80K in Sarasota FL = set for life

If you really wanted a true median, you would have to do it regionally with each region weighted with it's own COL adjustment. Then you could collate it...

Just like they adjust the CPI for inflation.

 

[Fonz]

This argument has been seriously flawed from the get go. There is no such thing as "median" across such a diverse base at the united states.. that number is very deceptive, because not all areas have the same cost of living..

80K in NYC = jack shit
80K in Sarasota FL = set for life

If you really wanted a true median, you would have to do it regionally with each region weighted with it's own COL adjustment. Then you could collate it...

Just like they adjust the CPI for inflation.

Good point SV.

I got a job offer in the UK for 70,000 ounds($110K), and in London
that is nothing.

With $110K I could live quite well in Madrid.

(Just giving your example a more international perspective)

Fonz

 

[underoos]

dude... back when i lived in "trailer town" $27K went a hella long way towards my strippers and beer, k?

 

[flex123]

an Unequal distribution of wealth is efficent for an economy. If it was equal there would be no incentives.
Where a Capitalist country that makesmoney on knowledge. If you want equal wealth distribution goto a communist country.

 

[BangedUp]

Bottom 20% has actually gotten poorer in the last 20 years in terms of 1998 dollars.

Could you please supply a link to the evidence that supports this contention.

 

[spongebob]

Why don't we just start eating the bottom 50%? That would free up some cash, though the farmers probably wouldn't like it.

thats what farming subsidies are for.

 

[spongebob]

We've heard a lot of it before but it is worth hearing again.

Top 10% = annual income of $81,000 per year.
Top1% = annual income of 290,000
Top .1% = annual income of $790,000

13,000 richest families earn as much as the poorest 20million.

Bottom 20% has actually gotten poorer in the last 20 years in terms of 1998 dollars.

Median household income is $41000 per yaer. 50% of Americans earn under $26,000 per year.

What does this mean to you? To all of us?

if you ask me i'll tell ya im in the bottom percent cause i hide my monies in a shoe box in the back yard.








seriously, im easily in the top 10% and i dont even feel well-off. it amazes me that 50% make below 26K/yr. how can you live, it must be a meager existence. house note, car notes, insurance, taxes, lunch money, utility bills, groceries, daycare, kids activities, birthdays, x-mas, beer money, credit cards, vacations, etc. etc.....

 

[BronzedGoddess]

You know who makes 26K a year? Try your lower enlisted military. lazy, doubtful. indigent, maybe....... A lot of the times if the couple has children it's more cost effective for the non-service member to stay home than work. Most military posts/bases are in small shitty ass towns with no economy other than what the military brings. Sorry this just hit a nerve......

 

[Fonz]

You know who makes 26K a year? Try your lower enlisted military. lazy, doubtful. indigent, maybe....... A lot of the times if the couple has children it's more cost effective for the non-service member to stay home than work. Most military posts/bases are in small shitty ass towns with no economy other than what the military brings. Sorry this just hit a nerve......

Mlitary brat?

Damn, its hard to type on ths damn ambien...Justy so out of it right now.

Sorryub for deplorable grammar.

Fonz

 

[BronzedGoddess]

Nope not a military brat. Both my husband and myself were in the military. Glad to see the ambien is working.

 

[vinylgroover]

It's about self motivation.

Last time i checked education was free in most western democracies.

Funny how you see those living in the lowest socio-economic quaters wearing new adidas trainers, nike track tops etc etc, obviously a difference in priorities. Education is the key. You can't force someone to educate themselves, but then that person shouldn't expect a living either.

You constantly here of people on these very boards gloating about the fact they are unemployed yet they have the time to sit on the internet for hours.

The major difference in the 20's and 30's was that the world economy was nowhere near as dependant on manufacturing, therefore, i highly doubt we will ever see that sort of social fallout again. The labour force of today is far more mobile and adaptable as is the world economy.

 

[Fonz]

Nope not a military brat. Both my husband and myself were in the military. Glad to see the ambien is working.

Just testing it outm not luike GHB but damn,,,,,,,,,
alle emotins ar increased abiut 1000fold and so is s my trurhfulenss. Err..........this reminds me of GHB but it hjas asmaller
effect of dopamine than GHB.
Damn thus is funny.....I 'm swayinmg bacj anfdort for no reasdon

Fonz

 

[Fonz]

Peopole born to high or middle high classes have to
keep up with the expactation of that calsaa. And thuis
is qui9tevhjard.

FDonz

 

[manny78]

Yes, half the country that is under $26k is lazy and indigent. That must be it.

90% of the country is under $80,000 per year. 80K is not really that much.

what ?????????? 80k is not that much ? Hell with 80k a year, you could easily afford a nice appartment, a BMW X5 (they cost around 40 000$ here) and have a luxurious life. Damn I'm not even making 60k a year and I have a pretty good life. SOunds like I should move there soon.....

 

[Fonz]

what ?????????? 80k is not that much ? Hell with 80k a year, you could easily afford a nice appartment, a BMW X5 (they cost around 40 000$ here) and have a luxurious life. Damn I'm not even making 60k a year and I have a pretty good life. SOunds like I should move there soon.....

80K is peanuts if lou luve in th UK or NYC.

170K/year is a good salsary fore their placesa.

Foxzn

 

[FreakMonster]

Peopole born to high or middle high classes have to
keep up with the expactation of that calsaa. And thuis
is qui9tevhjard.

FDonz

LOL, I think your fucked up Fonz. Go to bed!!!!

 

[Fonz]

LOL, I think your fucked up Fonz. Go to bed!!!!

I belueve I';m dfouind a NAthan.......yesys!!1

DAnd srtromge imobaver if yoiu ask me.

Fonxz

 

[spongebob]

Sorryub for deplorable grammar.

Fonz

actually we didnt notice any difference, your typing usually stinks.

 

[Lao Tzu]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: American wealth distribution - is this a problem

Furthermore, it pisses me off that people who came from where I did complain about needing more government assistance. I didn't get any of that while growing up and since I wasn't a "minority" I couldn't get any of the scholarships either.... except for a $3,000 college grant that I got for being low-income..... I had to pay for everything myself!

i doubt it. Welfare is ingrained in the american system. I'll bet that your college was paid for 2/3 by the state. I assume you got an in-state engineering degree.

the big welfare rolls are medicaid/medicare & social security. If you aren't on them then i guess you aren't in the 'big' welfares. But aside from those 2 welfare is mainly chump change.

supposedly 10 million people make minimum wage. 32 million are in poverty.

My brother & his wife (when he was in grad school) got by on 1k a month post tax income. That was to support 2 people. of course their cars were paid off and they had no kids or luxuries. You don't need oodles of money to be financially secure, after a point you can probably get by just fine if you aren't luxury obsessed & status obsessed.

and, i don't know if education is the cure all. it helps escape the blue collar & minimum wage workers, but education will probably put you in to 40-70k a year range.

 

[spongebob]

Just testing it outm not luike GHB but damn,,,,,,,,,
alle emotins ar increased abiut 1000fold and so is s my trurhfulenss. Err..........this reminds me of GHB but it hjas asmaller
effect of dopamine than GHB.
Damn thus is funny.....I 'm swayinmg bacj anfdort for no reasdon

Fonz

damn where can i get me hands on some ambien? that is how you spell right? never know with fonz especially right now.

 

[Fonz]

damn where can i get me hands on some ambien? that is how you spell right? never know with fonz especially right now.

Well, semd mer PM to my box and themn I;'l.semd you a mail.
<This stuff is STROING.

Also canm't wait t try the stronger ativam....LOL

That stuff is just 3X worse tham ambien

Fonsz

 

[spongebob]

Well, semd mer PM to my box and themn I;'l.semd you a mail.
<This stuff is STROING.

Also canm't wait t try the stronger ativam....LOL

That stuff is just 3X worse tham ambien

Fonsz

ok, i think im supposed to send you my e-mail to your pm box. is that right.

 

[Fonz]

ok, i think im supposed to send you my e-mail to your pm box. is that right.

No. I'll send you an e-mnail to your acct.

Fonxz

 

[spongebob]

No. I'll send you an e-mnail to your acct.

Fonxz

ok. i just did a search and found it. it was kinda high, 30pills @ 149$. damn thats alot.

 

[Fonz]

ok. i just did a search and found it. it was kinda high, 30pills @ 149$. damn thats alot.

Dam,n man.....LLO

I just cot it for $200 for 10mg tabs.

Fonz

 

[spongebob]

Dam,n man.....LLO

I just cot it for $200 for 10mg tabs.

Fonz

yea that was the 5mg at 149$

the 10mg are 169$.

i might try the 5mg. i'll holla at ya later when you can think better about the effect.

 

[Fonz]

yea that was the 5mg at 149$

the 10mg are 169$.

i might try the 5mg. i'll holla at ya later when you can think better about the effect.

I jhaventh 7.5mg amnbiens froim Rumania. 200 for $200

Sweet sweet deal......

Fonz

 

[FreakMonster]

We've heard a lot of it before but it is worth hearing again.

Top 10% = annual income of $81,000 per year.
Top1% = annual income of 290,000
Top .1% = annual income of $790,000

13,000 richest families earn as much as the poorest 20million.

Bottom 20% has actually gotten poorer in the last 20 years in terms of 1998 dollars.

Median household income is $41000 per yaer. 50% of Americans earn under $26,000 per year.

What does this mean to you? To all of us?

OH! I KNOW!
Don't have children you can't afford, goddammit.
Don't squander your money on stupid things like cigarettes and drugs.

Take your communistic mindset and shove it.
Total Commie/Socialist bullshit.

Someone somewhere had to work their royal asses off to get the money they have. You don't get rich by sitting around.

 

[Testosterone boy]

What you make is only half the story. Spending it wisely is the other half.

Roids and protein will enrich your retirement.

 

[Longhorn85]

We've heard a lot of it before but it is worth hearing again.

Top 10% = annual income of $81,000 per year.
Top1% = annual income of 290,000
Top .1% = annual income of $790,000

13,000 richest families earn as much as the poorest 20million.

Bottom 20% has actually gotten poorer in the last 20 years in terms of 1998 dollars.

Median household income is $41000 per yaer. 50% of Americans earn under $26,000 per year.

What does this mean to you? To all of us?

It means that life is not fair. It means that there are achievers and underachievers. It means that some people will be successful at whatever they do, and some people will be unsuccesful at whatever they do. It means some are born rich because their parents worked hard, and some are born poor because their parents abandoned them.

The great thing about the US is that our system of govt provides basic necessities for those who need it, and an opportunity for all to succeed.

The tax policy should encourage success, not deter it. If I were in charge the more you make, the lower the tax rate as an incentive for all to do better. The more money individuals make, the more revenue the govt gets, jobs are created, good produced, quality of life improved, etc, etc.