AIDS infected dick sucking woman wannabe.

[HansNZ]

"FAG"

"Burn it hell you sick faggot"

I'm just keeping you all updated on the latest fan mail I have been receiving via karma. Isn't elite doing a wonderful job in providing an environment inclusive for everybody

btw, for the record: I do indeed suck dicks on occasion - and do so very well I am told. I do not, however, have AIDS nor do I have any desire to be a woman.

 

[CAGED whiteman]

bhwhahaha- not me, i sign!!!!

 

[sermon_of_mockery]

it's not elites job to babysit,or is it

 

[HansNZ]

it's not elites job to babysit,or is it

When did I ask elite to babysit?

Are you suggesting that a woman being harrassed at her job or a man being called nigger and threatened by his co-workers are asking to be "babysat" if they find this treatment unacceptable and seek recourse?

 

[addickt]

When did I ask elite to babysit?

Are you suggesting that a woman being harrassed at her job or a man being called nigger and threatened by his co-workers are asking to be "babysat" if they find this treatment unacceptable and seek recourse?

What does cum taste like?

 

[gymtime]

What does cum taste like?

Lima beans........(ahem......or so I'm told)

 

[CAGED whiteman]

When did I ask elite to babysit?

Are you suggesting that a woman being harrassed at her job or a man being called nigger and threatened by his co-workers are asking to be "babysat" if they find this treatment unacceptable and seek recourse?

there is a big difference between calling someone a faggot and a nigger.

 

[HansNZ]

there is a big difference between calling someone a faggot and a nigger.

Really? Why is that? Please enlighten me.

 

[addickt]

Really? Why is that? Please enlighten me.

Cause you dont get to choose whether or not your skin is black..

you DO get to choose whether or not you suck cocks and let gerbils use your ass for hideout..

I have nothing against either Homosexuals or blacks..

in fact my best friend is gay and black, I used to call him a Faggott Nigger but it was too long.... Now we just call him a Fagger.

Just fuckin with ya.

 

[sermon_of_mockery]

"FAG"

"Burn it hell you sick faggot"

I'm just keeping you all updated on the latest fan mail I have been receiving via karma. Isn't elite doing a wonderful job in providing an environment inclusive for everybody

sounds like you expect them to babysit to me.

 

[HansNZ]

Re: Re: AIDS infected dick sucking woman wannabe.

sounds like you expect them to babysit to me.

well then, we'll just have to agree to disagree.

 

[sermon_of_mockery]

thats just my thoughts bro,I'm just one guys on this board.But on the other hand I do agree that those pm's are bullshit,and childish.Hope you find the assailant.

 

[addickt]

thats just my thoughts bro,I'm just one guys on this board.But on the other hand I do agree that those pm's are bullshit,and childish.Hope you find the assailant.

I agree, Karma is fucking stupid anyways.. Unsigned Karma is even worse.


Who cares though, its just some green dots.

Lots of pricks on this board who will fuck with you about anything that is an easy target.

Dont let it get under your skin.

 

[HansNZ]

Cause you dont get to choose whether or not your skin is black..

you DO get to choose whether or not you suck cocks and let gerbils use your ass for hideout..

So addickt, when did you choose to be straight?

But just to sidestep another tired argument about the whole ridiculous "being gay is a choice" notion, do you think it is OK for someone to be harassed and exposed to threatening treatment because of their religion?

Religious belief is a choice in the USA is it not?

 

[Boach]

sermon, are you the one giving that karma out???

 

[HighIntensity]

the bottom line is the way your are treated on this board hanz is bullshit and ignorant.

I am sorry that some of our members have self- hate and kkk mentalities. Funny thing in real life none of these cowboys would say shit.

 

[sermon_of_mockery]

sermon, are you the one giving that karma out???

I've only giving positive karma's,I don't waste time giving negatives.

 

[Frackal]

This place definitely has a strong white trash element to it at times

 

[Pamela]

What is wrong with you people?

Why is it that if anyone is different in anyway
you have to talk bad about that person.

You bettter all grow up. Life is full of people different
than you.


I'm sorry HansNZ... that someone had to say those things
to you..
One day they will realize that life is too short to call people names,
and make them feel bad.

 

[Frackal]

I love you pamela

 

[Robert Jan]

I love pamelas cat

 

[Pamela]

I love you pamela

Frackal you are so sweet..

If I wasn't taken I would find you and keep
you all for myself...

 

[vixenbabe]

HansNz- IGNORE THEM!

There are some good people on Elite! I'd say that there are some real jerks on here as well to have said those things to you via karma. Punks!

Ignore reading the shitty karma from now on- screw the narrow minded jerks !

 

[p0ink]

what is up with you bitching about the karma you recieve? you have had several threads about this shit already. who gives a shit?

 

[spentagn]

So addickt, when did you choose to be straight?

But just to sidestep another tired argument about the whole ridiculous "being gay is a choice" notion, do you think it is OK for someone to be harassed and exposed to threatening treatment because of their religion?

Religious belief is a choice in the USA is it not?

Certain religions, especially Christianity, are "harassed and exposed to threatening treatment" on a very regular, if not daily basis on Elite. And this in no way makes it ok or right, but it does occur. And I'm not saying this to belittle your karma messages, but only to answer your question.

 

[starfish]

Frackal you are so sweet..

If I wasn't taken I would find you and keep
you all for myself...

Everyone should have a pet Frackal

 

[manny78]

Lima beans........(ahem......or so I'm told)

 

[HansNZ]

Certain religions, especially Christianity, are "harassed and exposed to threatening treatment" on a very regular, if not daily basis on Elite. And this in no way makes it ok or right, but it does occur. And I'm not saying this to belittle your karma messages, but only to answer your question.

And because religious belief is a choice it doesn't therefore make harassment OK.

 

[Walter E Kurtz]

I have news for Mr. NZ and everybody else:

Some people in this world, will not agree with your opinions, lifestyle, behavior, and worldview.

Not long ago, I went to a forum at a university to discuss slavery "reparations". I explained why I thought that it was unconscionable to endorse such a policy. I was told by one student that I was a "Nazi fuck". Another told me that she hoped "my kids were born retarded". I also was called a "cracker motherfucker". I'd like to say that these things bothered me, but they didn't. I know that I am right, and they are wrong. Further, people who resort to such tactics do so out of desperation.

As far as the difference between calling a man a "nigger" or a "faggot":

Skin tone, Racial characteristics, culture, genome, etc. are benign characteristics. Obviously there is culture/racial conflict in this country and elsewhere. Yet, there is a world of difference between displaying an affinity for one's own race and calling another group of people "subhuman" based upon the adaptation of their genome.

Homosexuals engage in unusual sexual behaviors that many people find repugnant. Sexual behaviors are a means of gratifying oneself sexually, and have little to do with high culture. Some people are going to berate people who share their sexuality with others on open forums. If you cannot deal with this, perhaps you should discover a primary identity that is not centered around sex and sex behaviors. I personally don't think that its anybody's business what I do in my bedroom, hence, I don't share it.

Colonel Walter E Kurtz

 

[CAGED whiteman]

thanks walter!!!

 

[needsize]

Cause you dont get to choose whether or not your skin is black..

you DO get to choose whether or not you suck cocks and let gerbils use your ass for hideout..

I have nothing against either Homosexuals or blacks..

in fact my best friend is gay and black, I used to call him a Faggott Nigger but it was too long.... Now we just call him a Fagger.

Just fuckin with ya.

Sine when is sexual orientation a choice, it's something one is born with, same as skin color. So causing someone grief over their sexual orientation is just as ignorant, and retarded, as being a racist prick!

 

[Walter E Kurtz]

Sexual impulses are a strong biological imperative, yet individuals still choose to participate or refrain from engaging in them.

I'll say it again,
calling a man a "nigger" is a blanket condemnation of an entire culture of people. Taking issue with a man's unusual sexual proclivities is qualitatively different. People who engage in sex behaviors outside of the norm do not constitute a "culture". They are free to do as the please, yes, but they must be prepared to endure some criticism when they share their proclivities with the world. As I said, I don't think that my sex life is other people's business, hence, I don't share it with you people or anybody else. Perhaps people should identify themselves socially, politically, and individually in more substantial way than through the sexual behavior(s) that they choose to engage in.

Colonel Walter E Kurtz

 

[danielson]

Lima beans........(ahem......or so I'm told)

didnt natureboy say he eats lima beans everyday?

 

[Boach]

I'm brimming with warm, wet, sloppy lovin. Keep your chin up Hanz.

 

[gymtime]

didnt natureboy say he eats lima beans everyday?

Who do you think told me that?

 

[needsize]

Sexual impulses are a strong biological imperative, yet individuals still choose to participate or refrain from engaging in them.

I'll say it again,
calling a man a "nigger" is a blanket condemnation of an entire culture of people. Taking issue with a man's unusual sexual proclivities is qualitatively different. People who engage in sex behaviors outside of the norm do not constitute a "culture". They are free to do as the please, yes, but they must be prepared to endure some criticism when they share their proclivities with the world. As I said, I don't think that my sex life is other people's business, hence, I don't share it with you people or anybody else. Perhaps people should identify themselves socially, politically, and individually in more substantial way than through the sexual behavior(s) that they choose to engage in.

Colonel Walter E Kurtz

So your trying to say that if a man's biological drive is telling him that he is sexually attracted to men then he should ignore it, or have ignorant individuals in society condemn him for something that he was born with.

I'm a social worker that deals with kids. Sexual tendencies, whether they be hetro or homo, start to show up when children are extremely young, I've seen it as early as 4-5 years old. This is before they have any idea what sex is, or any clue what these feelings mean. But I guess that means that we should stop just condemning adults for engaging in homosexual behaviours, we should now start to go after our children for the feelings they have no control over....

 

[lil k]

not to fly to far off topic...but why the hell is it that so many men have issues with gay men.....yet encourage the sight of two women with each other? men seem to love the two woman thing even if the girls are lesbian and hate men....

you dont choose to be gay...if you are...you just are....

 

[Walter E Kurtz]

I think that people should get over themselves and stop being obsessed with sexuality.

A person has serious problems, whatever his proclivities, if he identifies himself in terms of who or what he has sex with. That is a very banal way to view oneself, and the world. People need to find meaning in things beyond themselves, and the methods that they employ to achieve physical gratification. Sex is an aspect of life that is best kept private.

 

[needsize]

Private or not, people shouldn't be discriminated against as a result of it

 

[Walter E Kurtz]

Kronkette:

It may be a distinction without difference. However, female sexuality is, in general, qualitatively different from male sexuality. People tend to view two lesbians as engaging in a sort of intimate affection. Men having sex appears animalistic, invasive, unsexual, dehumanizing etc. This is what I have gathered from what people say.

 

[BronzedGoddess]

If you could just choose your sexuality, why would anyone choose to be homosexual. Because they enjoy living in fear, and love to be harrassed? I don't think so.

Hanz hang in there dear. Elite's hard on minorities. Just let it roll off your back.

 

[Walter E Kurtz]

Gays don't live in fear. Per capita, they are the wealthiest demographic group. Their lobbying power at the federal level is second to none. Their agenda is accomidated in every single public forum. If that constitutes discrimination, I would like to be a victim of it.

 

[lil k]

Kronkette:

It may be a distinction without difference. However, female sexuality is, in general, qualitatively different from male sexuality. People tend to view two lesbians as engaging in a sort of intimate affection. Men having sex appears animalistic, invasive, unsexual, dehumanizing etc. This is what I have gathered from what people say.

that is valid and i have to agree to a point....however i have got sexually excited fantasizing about two men....and hell i love the two women thing......

to me sex is sex plain and simple...most guys are not very comfortable with their sexuality and that is why they get freaked and think that two men is gross, or un natural, its no different than two women...sex is sex...

gay men however, fall in love, and thats something i could never do with another girl, but understand that gay people cant help the way they feel and i am happy for them....

i am not implying that anything is wrong with your post...i just wanted to throw a woman point of view into things

respect to everyone!

 

[BronzedGoddess]

Then why are so many homosexual teens afraid to come out?
When's the last time you heard about a heterosexual bashing?
Do you get karma that says "Fuck you, you pussy licking mutha fucker you are so sick!"

But since you can just choose to be gay then why do you make that choice?

 

[gymtime]

Gays don't live in fear. Per capita, they are the wealthiest demographic group. Their lobbying power at the federal level is second to none. Their agenda is accomidated in every single public forum. If that constitutes discrimination, I would like to be a victim of it.

Their lobbying power is actually a distant sixth or seventh to several corporate/industrial special interest groups and the AARP. And the term "agenda" is misleading. The only agenda is to have the same rights as anyone else to do things that are completely irrelevant to sexual preference.

 

[Walter E Kurtz]

Gay teens are "afraid" to come out because it is difficult for parents to accept the fact that their son/daughter, rightly or wrongly, will struggle with homosexuality throughout their life.

As far as "gay bashing", the threat of this sort of crime is wildly overstated. There have been a few cases over the past 10 years of sociopathic thugs attacking/murdering gay people. These sorts of attacks are exceedingly rare, and the media feeds paranoia by granting disproportionate coverage to these events. Statistically speaking, I face a sizable threat from Black offenders, being that I am a White person who lives in a predominantly Black area (many of whose residents are below the poverty line). Yet I can't say that I ever walk the streets of my hometown in a state of fear.

Unfortunately, there are many antagonistic individuals in America who try to intimidate people who are the objects of their aggressions. I live in an area where Whites are a minority. I coached football for a high school that was predominantly Black. I have dealt with a fair amount of verbal abuse and attempts at intimidation based upon my appearance. I have always felt that people who harbor this sort of attitude are weak, and I am not particularly afraid of them. You shouldn't empower them by allowing their threats/insults to damage you.

Walter E Kurtz

 

[Lestat]

I think the unsigned Karma Hanz is getting is wrong and terrible.

About the race vs sexual orientation, I believe there is a difference.

I don't think there is a gene that makes someone gay nor is there one that makes you straight.

Let me use a simple example to explain an unconscious choice that has no basis in genetics.

For some reason I can't stand the taste of strawberries. I don't know why. I think at some time early on in life I did like them, but I never remember eating one and liking it. I can't stand them actually.

It is not very popular to not like strawberries. Some people make fun of me for it. Some women are turned off (no champagne and strawberries for me).. I wish in some way I liked them, but I can't bring myself to aquire the taste.

Now do I think I was born this way? Hmm probably not. Is there some gene or chromosome that makes my taste buds send bad signals to my brain when I taste strawberries... probably not. It is just a taste that developed (or didn't) and now I can't do a thing about it.

Brian

 

[gymtime]

Gay teens are "afraid" to come out because it is difficult for parents to accept the fact that their son/daughter, rightly or wrongly, will struggle with homosexuality throughout their life.

I'll assume that you put the word afraid in quotes because you feel their fear is unfounded?

 

[Code]

Grow thicker skin.

You'd think folks would consider getting thicker skin *before* coming out. j/k

Seriously though, it's a sad place that someone should expect to be singled out due to preferences. Here's some good karma for your troubles....

 

[satanic goatslayer]

An easy way to distinguish a person as either homo or heterosexual is the knife test.

Take a small filleting knife, approximate blade length of four inches, and shove it into the neck, 2.5 inches below the chin.

If the subject grasps his/her throat and curls into the fetal position on the ground, chances are you've got a homosexual on your hands.

If the subject's neck begins to spray blood quickly, and the person runs around aimlessly, then falls to the ground and bleeds out, s/he must be a heterosexual.

Enlightenment.

 

[circusgirl]

Actually, until you have been the victim of discrimination based on appearance/religion/sexual prefereence/football team of choice you don't know what it can be like.

I do not normally suffer discrimination in my daily life. However, when I choose to go out dressed "goth", I get verbal abuse from strangers in the street, or in passing cars, every time. And this is in no way unique to me. Now, this only happens about once a week, but the level of aggression displayed in the verbal attacks is frightening. I'm not talking about mockery here (hey, I can sling just as much mud), but downright crazd, hate-filled aggressive screaming. I find this intimidating, as I am one and there are always at least 5 of them - enough to beat the shit out of me should they so choose. This is more than unpleasant - it is unpleasant the first, 5th or 10th time, but the 60th time, it is profoundly intimidating and upsetting, because one day it's going to be more than verbal, and also my effort to prevent myself from choking the living shit outta one of them needs to be greater. Similar people have tried to run over a friend of mine for the same reason. Yes, they tried to KILL her because of her taste in clothing.

I am lucky because my clothing is my choice. If on any given day I just do not feeling like taking the crap, I wear jogging bottoms and a tshirt of something. This would not be the case if I was a man and identifably gay. I would get this shit all the time.

Go to 24fightingchickens.com and read the stuff he says about being a white (straight!) american in Japan, particularly the stuff about Martin Luther King. It's an eyeopener, I was reading this site today.

I also have several male friends who have been randomly attacked for things that were perceived as "gay" - long hair, transvestism (the fact that they may look silly is not, I repeat not, a crime), exceptionally effeminate appearance, makeup etc. Some of these men were gay, some were not. But if you think gay bashing is not prevalent then you need to walk around wearing a dress for a day.

circusgirl

 

[gwl9dta4]

who cares it's just some stupid karma and green dots. Posting on any chat board and expressing your opinions puts you at risk for this type of name calling. It's especially easy if you have something distinguishing about you.

Say you are bald, well you can be on being called a "bald fuck"
Say you have curly hair, you can be called a "curly haired freak"


Now this does not make it right or proper but it is certainly something to be just brushed off, and moved on upon.

I could not cound how many times i have been called "fucking Pollack" and some such nonesence in my Karma. I personally find it amusing that someone is so full of hate and desparation that they resort to that.

 

[flexed1]

Some folks are just asswipes who hide behind a computer. I get hate Karma almost everyday and am called a faggot quite often but thats easy when you HIDE behind a screen. In person I am happy to say I have NEVER been called anything close to a gay slur and thats probably because people respect me for who I am and how I treat them and second most are afraid of me and who wants to have there ass kicked by a queer? Not many it would ruin there lives. Sorry you have gotten hate Karma just let it roll.

 

[gwl9dta4]

Some folks are just asswipes who hide behind a computer. I get hate Karma almost everyday and am called a faggot quite often but thats easy when you HIDE behind a screen. In person I am happy to say I have NEVER been called anything close to a gay slur and thats probably because people respect me for who I am and how I treat them and second most are afraid of me and who wants to have there ass kicked by a queer? Not many it would ruin there lives. Sorry you have gotten hate Karma just let it roll.

Right on man, right on.

 

[Code]

Some folks are just asswipes who hide behind a computer. I get hate Karma almost everyday and am called a faggot quite often but thats easy when you HIDE behind a screen. In person I am happy to say I have NEVER been called anything close to a gay slur and thats probably because people respect me for who I am and how I treat them and second most are afraid of me and who wants to have there ass kicked by a queer? Not many it would ruin there lives. Sorry you have gotten hate Karma just let it roll.

Ladies and gentlemen. The GOSPEL of the great JOHN BASEDOW!

Fitness Celebrity and personal trainer to the Stars!

 

[Boach]

I've only giving positive karma's,I don't waste time giving negatives.

It just sounded like you were admitting to it. It wasn't an accusation. Thanks for the negative karma, ass grabber.

 

[flexed1]

Code please don't OUT me

 

[Wombat]

not to fly to far off topic...but why the hell is it that so many men have issues with gay men.....yet encourage the sight of two women with each other? men seem to love the two woman thing even if the girls are lesbian and hate men....

you dont choose to be gay...if you are...you just are....

guys only like to see girl on girl if they think they have a chance to be part of it(or use it as jerk off material)----other then that it means nothing to men----guys that have bi-sexual girlfriends have them because they plan on being part of the triangle or square in even octogon----if the two women kick the guy out ---trust me hes out of their for good and he won't look back--unless of course he is a total tool(and i've know a few of them)

As far as not choosing to be gay(i don't buy it)-----go into any club and you will find chicks making out with other chicks(does that make them gay???NO???if two guys were doing that it sure as hell would make them gay(unless XTC is involved then who knows it could go either way)---ive known many of girls that would mess around with other females but only when they had a audience---where these chicks gay(fuck no)they were trying to attrack men---

Everything one does is a choice---------Now a guy may not be turned on by a female but may be by a man---is he gay probably--but how many females did he try to pursue before he let himself go full force to the male(probably none or very few-most cases never gave the a woman a chance)---was he born with it---of course not---but he picked up traits at a very young age(1-6) when his mind was like a sponge----Their are going to be tons and tons of gay kids across the world--a big part is the media --these female kids seeing two of their favorite actresses going at it tells them its cool to dig chicks----or Tv shows like Will and Grace that makes being gay funny and ok(kids pick up on this stuff)----all kids(when young) are confused about their sexuality--most don't know what is right or wrong(the answer is their is no right or wrong--but i believe it is a choice-based on the people around them----and it only takes one event in a young kids life to make him move in a certain direction....

Hell look to hollywood these days---more then half of the actors are supposedly gay(which their not?) but they play the game just to get the roles because a lot and mean a lot of directors and producers swing from the pole....Jews and gays stick together(and that is all the hollywood is made up off-well for the most part anyway) and that is what is being shown to all across the world.....

However I believe if your gay or lesbian then so be it---more power to you----but you have the power to live and make love to the opposite sex anytime you want to(and that is a choice) sure it may not be your prefrence sexually(now) but I didn't like seafood when I was young either ----but now its one of my favorite foods(funny how the mind works)

but then again what the fuck do I know---my wife can't get enough of eating pussy--so go figure...

 

[lil k]

but then again what the fuck do I know---my wife can't get enough of eating pussy--so go figure...

me too!

 

[circusgirl]

TOothe peson who left me the unishged karma "maybe you shouldn't dress like a punk" -

- that is not the point. The point is that attacking people for being different is wrong. I ahve the right to dress as I please and expect not to be verbally or physically attacked for it. I am not in any way to blame for it just because I can choose to dress differently. I used the recation my dress ense gets as a way of pointing out how annying and distrssing it is to be picked on non-stop for whatever reason, and that I sympathised with Hans, as if I had to put up with that every day, I'd soon be in jail.

The point is not, it's wrong to be different but we'll make a special case for people like gay men or african americans because they can't help it, it's WRONG to persucte people for being different. period.

I feel very strongly about this.

 

[HansNZ]

Wow! So many replies.

Thanks for your feedback everyone. Certainly views from each perspective have been included - and it was all done with civility as well. There were a few arguments I think were very flawed, but i'll let the thread speak for itself.

Thanks for the support people.

Hans.

 

[Longhorn85]

....and hell i love the two women thing......

gay men however, fall in love, and thats something i could never do with another girl, but understand that gay people cant help the way they feel and i am happy for them....

[/QUOTE

You speak as if you were not gay yourself, but from what you said, you are, right?

 

[musclebrains]

Gays don't live in fear. Per capita, they are the wealthiest demographic group. Their lobbying power at the federal level is second to none. Their agenda is accomidated in every single public forum. If that constitutes discrimination, I would like to be a victim of it.

Totally untrue. Gay people consistently earn less than their straight counterparts doing the same kind of work.

By the way, "Col. Kurtz," you're much nicer under this moniker than the other one you came on with, Dick Black. Here we go again. You just can't stay away, can you?

 

[Lumberg]

I would like to say that Colonel Kurtz's posts contain some of the most intelligent discourse I have read on Elite. Very good points.

Lestat also makes a great point.

Homosexuality lies somewhere in the grey area between the sides in the nature/nurture debate.

Your genes, body chemistry, physiology, and environment all come together to make you who you are. Some of the factors you just can't isolate.

 

[lil k]

....and hell i love the two women thing......

gay men however, fall in love, and thats something i could never do with another girl, but understand that gay people cant help the way they feel and i am happy for them....

[/QUOTE

You speak as if you were not gay yourself, but from what you said, you are, right?

NO WAY! i am not a lesbian at all....i am a bi-curious female....i enjoy having sex with other women WITH my man....i am hetro emotional and could NEVER have love feeling or relationship feelings for another woman......gay people are homo emotional and i am not....i love my husband and i love sex...i like to be with him and other woman...but i am NOT a lesbian...I LOVE THE COCK!! hehehe..oh yea...and pussy too! hehehehe......but if i had to give one up...it would be the pussy.....

 

[HansNZ]

NO WAY! i am not a lesbian at all....i am a bi-curious female....i enjoy having sex with other women WITH my man....i am hetro emotional and could NEVER have love feeling or relationship feelings for another woman......gay people are homo emotional and i am not....i love my husband and i love sex...i like to be with him and other woman...but i am NOT a lesbian...I LOVE THE COCK!! hehehe..oh yea...and pussy too! hehehehe......but if i had to give one up...it would be the pussy.....

You raise an interesting and frequently overlooked point.

Homosexuality isn't just about being sexually attracted to the body of someone of the same sex. There's also a mental and emotional element that is just as strong (if not stronger).

While I have many female friends I cannot say I have ever developed a crush on them or wanted to express the love I have for them sexually.

It is quite different with (some) men. When you are homosexual, as a kid you find yourself developing crushes on other boys. When I have fallen in love with men I have wanted to express it sexually. No matter how close I have drawn to a woman, I have never wanted to be with her sexually. It would be like having sex with my sister.

 

[lil k]

well said as always hansNZ!! good karma to you! MUAH!

 

[needsize]

You raise an interesting and frequently overlooked point.

Homosexuality isn't just about the being sexually attracted to the body of someone of the same sex. There's also a mental and emotional element that is just as strong (if not stronger).

While I have many female friends I cannot say I have ever developed a crush on them or wanted to express the love I have for them sexually.

It is quite different with (some) men. When you are homosexual, as a kid you find yourself developing crushes on other boys. When I have fallen in love with men I have wanted to express it sexually. No matter how close I have drawn to a woman, I have never wanted to be with her sexually. It would be like having sex with my sister.

Very well said, too bad it's till over the head of the haters around here

 

[Mr H]

Turn off your PMs and Karma.

There's always going to be assholes out there. Whether you're at Disney World or Elite Fitness.

I don't see Tiger Woods crying about the death threats he receives, most likely, everyday...

 

[Longhorn85]

NO WAY! i am not a lesbian at all....i am a bi-curious female....i enjoy having sex with other women WITH my man....i am hetro emotional and could NEVER have love feeling or relationship feelings for another woman......gay people are homo emotional and i am not....i love my husband and i love sex...i like to be with him and other woman...but i am NOT a lesbian...I LOVE THE COCK!! hehehe..oh yea...and pussy too! hehehehe......but if i had to give one up...it would be the pussy.....

Me thinks though doth protest too much. But I accept your explanation.

 

[Longhorn85]

1) It is quite different with (some) men. When you are homosexual, as a kid you find yourself developing crushes on other boys. When I have fallen in love with men I have wanted to express it sexually.

2) No matter how close I have drawn to a woman, I have never wanted to be with her sexually. It would be like having sex with my sister.

1) Hans, this is contrary to the common view that Homosexual men tend to be extremely promiscuous often with multiple partners, compared to the heterosexual population. Is this not the case?

2) I find this hard to understand. If you had said brother instead of sister, it would have made more sense to me. Tell me this Hans, are you more comfortable taking a public shower in a men's or women's locker room? As a heterosexual male I would enjoy taking a shower with women of course, but I am more comfortable in a men's room. If I took a shower in a ladies restroom, I would probably get sprung. Does this happen with gay men in the men's room?

Sorry if these are silly questions but I'm curious.

 

[lil k]

Me thinks though doth protest too much. But I accept your explanation.

how do you mean? there are many ways to protest...complain, demonstration, declare, assert, announce, etc...

are you saying that i simply was too graphic with my post and what i like? if so tell me, cause i will edit my comments, i dont want to offend anyone...hell im a sex board mod...i wanna turn you on..hehe

 

[HansNZ]

1) Hans, this is contrary to the common view that Homosexual men tend to be extremely promiscuous often with multiple partners, compared to the heterosexual population. Is this not the case?

Well homosexual men are no more promisuous than heterosexual men. But they certainly have access to more sexual partners because men are not subject to the cultural conditioning of women telling them they are sluts.

But I am curious about what you are implying. Are you trying to suggest that homosexual men are less able and less likely than heterosexual men to fall in love and develop crushes?

2) I find this hard to understand. If you had said brother instead of sister, it would have made more sense to me. Tell me this Hans, are you more comfortable taking a public shower in a men's or women's locker room? As a heterosexual male I would enjoy taking a shower with women of course, but I am more comfortable in a men's room. If I took a shower in a ladies restroom, I would probably get sprung. Does this happen with gay men in the men's room?

Sorry if these are silly questions but I'm curious.

Well I can't say i'd be more or less comfortable publicly showering with people of one sex over the other. I would also not perve at a man I found sexually attractive. That would be rude.

 

[Longhorn85]

how do you mean? there are many ways to protest...complain, demonstration, declare, assert, announce, etc...

are you saying that i simply was too graphic with my post and what i like? if so tell me, cause i will edit my comments, i dont want to offend anyone...hell im a sex board mod...i wanna turn you on..hehe

Just a weak attempt to quote Shakespeare. No, you don't offend me at all kronkette, you're quite an interesting lady. Your tits and ass are pretty nice too.

 

[nevertoobig]

I agree with Lestat27 in that I think homosexuality is not genetic.

I think it is more of a psychological disorder (By disorder, I mean deviation from the normal) caused by circumstances growing up.

HansNZ, musclebrains and other gay guys...What are your opinions on this?

 

[HansNZ]

I agree with Lestat27 in that I think homosexuality is not genetic.

I think it is more of a psychological disorder (By disorder, I mean deviation from the normal) caused by circumstances growing up.

HansNZ, musclebrains and other gay guys...What are your opinions on this?

Well this wa sthe theory throughout the nineteenth century and through most of the twentieth century. Whether it is genetic or not I don't know. If it isn't then neither is heterosexuality. In any case it certainly isn't a choice.

The environmental argument is challenged by the fact that there aren't sufficient consistencies in the childhood environments of gay men to draw a viable conclusion about this.

In any case the social environmental messages are very hostile towards homosexuality, so I don't know why it would be so common.

I have my own theory. If you accept that sexuality is environmental then I think that completely free of social conditioning, people are naturally bisexual. There would probably always be a hard core or people who are gay and people who are straight, probably in the same proportion. The current distortion in favour of the heterosexual direction is a product of societal conditioning.

But it is just a theory. I certainly don't think that heterosexuality is the norm and homosexuality is the deviation.

 

[Longhorn85]

But I am curious about what you are implying. Are you trying to suggest that homosexual men are less able and less likely than heterosexual men to fall in love and develop crushes?
[/B]

I am saying that homosexual sex, in particular with men, represents to me a deviant type of promiscuity. The fact that men in prison that were not gay before turn to homosexuality (or are forcibly turned) indicates this to me.

There is no pussy available, so guys do each other in the rear. It is not the preferred solution.

Clearly this is not the mindset of most gays that are not in prison.

 

[HansNZ]

I am saying that homosexual sex, in particular with men, represents to me a deviant type of promiscuity. The fact that men in prison that were not gay before turn to homosexuality (or are forcibly turned) indicates this to me.

There is no pussy available, so guys do each other in the rear. It is not the preferred solution.

Clearly this is not the mindset of most gays that are not in prison.

hmmm, well unless it is rape, that situation in prison indicates the prevalence of latent bisexual tendencies lurking just below the surface waiting to jump up and bite!

Hans *bites* at ttlpkg, lol!

 

[Longhorn85]

hmmm, well unless it is rape, that situation in prison indicates the prevalence of latent bisexual tendencies lurking just below the surface waiting to jump up and bite!

Hans *bites* at ttlpkg, lol!

Or does it indicate the a desperate situation that causes men to turn to a form of sex that is unnatural given the unavailability of women?

 

[HansNZ]

Or does it indicate the a desperate situation that causes men to turn to a form of sex that is unnatural given the unavailability of women?

btw, what ever happened to the karma you promised me Mr. Stinge!

As for the prison issue, not everyone does turn to homosexuality. In any case, until I was 24 I ruled out any option of sex with men but this didn't drive me into sexual liasons with women.

As for the "unnatural" arguments, none of them stack up. The fact is that the animal kingdom is rife with homosexual behaviour, blissfully devoid of human society's ideas of absolutes in this regard.

 

[Robert Jan]

"I certainly don't think that heterosexuality is the norm and homosexuality is the deviation."

Well... it does seem logical that it is imo. Sex, from a purely biologic and ethologic stance is there for reproduction IMO...

"In any case, until I was 24 I ruled out any option of sex with men but this didn't drive me into sexual liasons with women"

how can you not have sex by choice, until your 24? `was your test level out of whack or something....

 

[HansNZ]

"I certainly don't think that heterosexuality is the norm and homosexuality is the deviation."

Well... it does seem logical that it is imo. Sex, from a purely biologic and ethologic stance is there for reproduction IMO...

No, society has decided that heterosexuality is normal and that homosexuality is deviant, not nature.

Very little sex, in nature or in humans, is for the purpose of reproduction.

"In any case, until I was 24 I ruled out any option of sex with men but this didn't drive me into sexual liasons with women"

how can you not have sex by choice, until your 24? `was your test level out of whack or something....

Nope, I was just a victim of society's prejudice towards homosexuals. So I repressed myself. I was a marathon masturbator though.

 

[nevertoobig]

Well this wa sthe theory throughout the nineteenth century and through most of the twentieth century. Whether it is genetic or not I don't know. If it isn't then neither is heterosexuality. In any case it certainly isn't a choice.

The environmental argument is challenged by the fact that there aren't sufficient consistencies in the childhood environments of gay men to draw a viable conclusion about this.

In any case the social environmental messages are very hostile towards homosexuality, so I don't know why it would be so common.

I have my own theory. If you accept that sexuality is environmental then I think that completely free of social conditioning, people are naturally bisexual. There would probably always be a hard core or people who are gay and people who are straight, probably in the same proportion. The current distortion in favour of the heterosexual direction is a product of societal conditioning.

But it is just a theory. I certainly don't think that heterosexuality is the norm and homosexuality is the deviation.

I think that you're probably correct in saying that without social conditioning, people are naturally bisexual. But i think that since the social conditioning starts very early on in life, this is when a persons sexuality is determined.

I also think though that people are born with a natural instinct to reproduce and that the reason for sex is to reproduce. Therefore making homosexuality less common and a deviation from the normal.

These are just my opinions though.

 

[nevertoobig]

As for the "unnatural" arguments, none of them stack up. The fact is that the animal kingdom is rife with homosexual behaviour, blissfully devoid of human society's ideas of absolutes in this regard.

So, you're saying that just because in the animal kingdom there is homosexual behaviour, then that proves that homosexuality is completely natural?

Can't animals, just like humans undergo psychological changes?

 

[Walter E Kurtz]

"Gays earn less than their straight counterparts" is a fallacy that I have not heard before. Its an interesting propaganda piece, though.

Walter E Kurtz

 

[HansNZ]

"Gays earn less than their straight counterparts" is a fallacy that I have not heard before. Its an interesting propaganda piece, though.

Walter E Kurtz

How do you know it is a fallacy?

I am not informed about that particular issue, but what I do know is that gays often get discriminated against in employment in a number of ways.

 

[HansNZ]

I think that you're probably correct in saying that without social conditioning, people are naturally bisexual. But i think that since the social conditioning starts very early on in life, this is when a persons sexuality is determined.

This is indeed an area where theory reigns and about which we know little for certain. But if it is environmental then the number of causes must vary greatly and be numerous. If homosexuality is "caused" in a particular way then so is heterosexuality.

I also think though that people are born with a natural instinct to reproduce and that the reason for sex is to reproduce. Therefore making homosexuality less common and a deviation from the normal.

These are just my opinions though.

I too think there is an instinct to reproduce, but this is not the purpose of most sexual activity. Sexual activity serves many functions. Even the Catholic church of all institutions recognises that reproduction isn't the only function of sex and that its function as an expression of love for a partner is also just as important.

If we keep going with the bisexuality as the norm and deviations from bisexuality as environmental theory, then there is more I can add to that. In such a situation homosexual tendencies would be strongest before and after prime reproductive periods with heterosexual urges becoming stronger during prime reproductive periods.

I have actually witnessed this process among some peers. I know lesbians who have often become quite "clucky". They go through a period where the experiment with men a little and end up getting pregnant and having a kid. After this their heterosexual urges seems to receed and women are the only people that interest them sexually again. These women have often told me that they were going through a "phase" and in hindsight they don't know why they developed a passing curiousity in men, lol.

Having said this, I do believe there would always be a "hard core" of heterosexuals and homosexuals at each end of the spectrum with no real interest in the same/opposite sex. But the vast majority would fall in between.

 

[HansNZ]

So, you're saying that just because in the animal kingdom there is homosexual behaviour, then that proves that homosexuality is completely natural?

Can't animals, just like humans undergo psychological changes?

Well can you prove that these behaviours aren't normal and are the consequnce of psychological deviations?

Whole species like manatees live the homosexual lifestyle. Their sexual contact through most of the year is with their own sex and only during mating time do the males have intercourse with female manatees. This isn't a deviation from normal behaviour, this IS the normal behaviour of manatees.

Manatees are vegetarians though, so this is evidence that they have probably been corrupted by tree hugging, tofu eating, greenie democrats, lol.

 

[Puc]

I too think there is an instinct to reproduce, but this is not the purpose of most sexual activity. Sexual activity serves many functions. Even the Catholic church of all institutions recognises that reproduction isn't the only function of sex and that its function as an expression of love for a partner is also just as important.

referencing the catholic church in your argument might not be the finest idea.

Hans... i support most of your arguments, but it seems like you are trying to prove that homosexuality is 'normal'... I gotta disagree... if you said it is abnormal but not morally wrong, i would agree wholeheartedly....

 

[HansNZ]

referencing the catholic church in your argument might not be the finest idea.

Hans... i support most of your arguments, but it seems like you are trying to prove that homosexuality is 'normal'... I gotta disagree... if you said it is abnormal but not morally wrong, i would agree wholeheartedly....

hehe, I used the catholic church as an example because it is so conservative.

Homosexuality is normal. That only seems like a questionable statement to most people because society's messages to the contrary have - and continue to be - so strong.

Society defines what normality is. It is, after all, a relative term. So in this sense you are right. It is not normal because society has decided it isn't.

In the nineteenth century the idea than non-white races could be intellectually and morally equal to the white race was considered quite absurd, except among a tiny minority of liberal intellectuals. To claim otherwise would have been seen as lacking in obvious common sense.

 

[casavant]

Homosexuality is normal. That only seems like a questionable statement to most people because society's messages to the contrary have - and continue to be - so strong. /B]

I agree. "Normal" is a totally relative term. It doesn't seem absolutely normal to us straight people who haven't been exposed to it much and who've had it driven into our heads to the contrary, but when you think about it, it's as normal as just about anything else, I guess. Hell, it's been around forever.

You can say: anal sex=not conducive to reproduction, but if you say anal sex=not conducive to reproduction=not normal, then you're making a huge assumption.

 

[HansNZ]

I agree. "Normal" is a totally relative term. It doesn't seem absolutely normal to us straight people who haven't been exposed to it much and who've had it driven into our heads to the contrary, but when you think about it, it's as normal as just about anything else, I guess. Hell, it's been around forever.

You can say: anal sex=not conducive to reproduction, but if you say anal sex=not conducive to reproduction=not normal, then you're making a huge assumption.

Yeah, very little vaginal sex results in reproduction either.

I didn't used to think it was normal either. That is of course why I was a virgin until I was 25

I am usually very good at analysing things, but the negative conditioning towards homosexuality was so ingrained that it took me until my mid twenties to get over it. Once you actually truly examine the whole issue, you discover that even seemingly quite watertight arguments against homosexuality crumble.

 

[casavant]

Yep, in the end I think it comes down to one of the rules I try to live by- You're not hurting anybody, and I'm not hurting anybody; you do your thing, I'll do mine. Everybody's happy.

 

[Longhorn85]

btw, what ever happened to the karma you promised me Mr. Stinge!

As for the "unnatural" arguments, none of them stack up. The fact is that the animal kingdom is rife with homosexual behaviour, blissfully devoid of human society's ideas of absolutes in this regard.

I have to spread it around more before I can hit you again. As for your animal kingdom argument, I'm sure deviant behavior can be found in the wild.

 

[HansNZ]

I have to spread it around more before I can hit you again. As for your animal kingdom argument, I'm sure deviant behavior can be found in the wild.

I am sure it can.

But to make the deviant argument you'll have to prove that homosexuality among animals is deviant. Are you saying that this behaviour among manatees is deviant when it is the same normal behaviour that has always been witnessed?

In the former soviet union communism wasn't considered an ideology but a science in the way physics was. To debate its obvious 'truth" was to deny the existence of gravity.

Because the authoriies didn't want to acknowledge that communism was in dispute, dissidents were put in mental institutions to show that their attitudes were the product of mental illness. It is easy to simply label something you don't like an illness in order to fulfill some ideological agenda.

 

[CAGED whiteman]

i have gotten more green karma for this thread...its a shame that whoever feels the same as me does not have the balls to speak up....

 

[Longhorn85]

But to make the deviant argument you'll have to prove that homosexuality among animals is deviant. Are you saying that this behaviour among manatees is deviant when it is the same normal behaviour that has always been witnessed?

It is easy to simply label something you don't like an illness in order to fulfill some ideological agenda.

I feel like you've made my point Hans. I think the burden is on you to prove that it is not deviant, condsidering the obvious natural "objective" of sex, reproduction.

Likewise, it is just as easy to label something that is clearly out of the norm as normal to justify deviant behavior.

 

[HansNZ]

I feel like you've made my point Hans. I think the burden is on you to prove that it is not deviant, condsidering the obvious natural "objective" of sex, reproduction.

What a bizarre world you live in ttlpkg. In this thread and in so many others we have had I have given evidence after evidence and you have offered nothing in exchange other than denial and tenuous theoretical counter-assertions which also crumble under examination.

Likewise, it is just as easy to label something that is clearly out of the norm as normal to justify deviant behavior.

Well since few people in the world are right-wing conservatives and the vast majority of the rest of the world operates with values totally different to your own (often socialist/collectivist values - 1.3 billion in China alone) then you are abnormal and therefore wrong. You are a deviant.

The weight of evidence is so totally against you, it is you that carries the burden of proof. Everytime I make a point, citing facts, you take some unproven (and often unprovable) theoretical position and assert that it is true without credible evidence proving it.

You are somewhat like some Muslims who refuse to accept Bin Laden is guilty of anything. "Americans are just trying to scapegoat Islam" is what they will tell you. Releasing a videotape with him actually saying he is responsible is just shrugged off as propaganda because certain people have already made up their minds and THAT is THAT. You have a religious agenda, and because you think your opinions are those of God then all debate is over.

 

[Norman Bates]

I think most men are hetero and that makes hetero the norm,does it?
BTW. just because something isn´t in the norm doesn´t make it wrong.

 

[HansNZ]

i have gotten more green karma for this thread...its a shame that whoever feels the same as me does not have the balls to speak up....

Are you TOTALLY delusional?

Anti-homosexuals are so vocal on EF that it defies belief! This is the most homophobic environment i have EVER been in in my entire life. It makes high school look like a bastion of love and tolerance.

Not only are people incredibly vocal against homosexuality on threads, but I get ENDLESS numbers of anonymous gay bashing karma messages on a daily basis.

The USA is the most conservative society in the Western world. I cannot believe how 1950s the attitudes of Americans are. This site is full of 20 year olds who have the sort of opinions you'd only find among red necked 70 year old men in my country.

In fact this is the only gay themed thread I have been a part of on EF that hasn't been full-on hate mongering, gay-hate inciting harrassment.