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Aids? Gay? Shredded???

Rippeddrago

New member
Whatever the deal is... more then just gay guys wanting to look good, why are they all jacked and more so, ripped?? Are they all on Growth, Anavar? Someone told me it's the cocktail of medicine they're given. Any insight folks?
 
One of my friends claims that the reason gay men are more fit (at least the ones with gym memberships) is because of the increased posibility of meeting someone in the locker room. Honestly, I think it has to be looked at on an individual basis it's like saying all people from Afganistan are members of terrorist ogranizations.
 
Rippeddrago said:
Whatever the deal is... more then just gay guys wanting to look good, why are they all jacked and more so, ripped?? Are they all on Growth, Anavar? Someone told me it's the cocktail of medicine they're given. Any insight folks?

OK, firstly, not all of those good looking gay guys are on an HIV cocktail because - shock, horror - 99.9% of gay people don't have HIV.

The usual reason is that gay men, like women, are exposed to men's greater emphasis on physical beauty. As such they invest more effort in their looks than straight men who experience less such pressure from women.

Gay men get a double dose because they experience the pressure to be "beautiful" not just from other men, but also from their own male emphasis on visual beauty.
 
Hanz, you're not the guy in the picture are you?

Anway, I do agree with what you're saying.. but maybe it's just out here in Lollywood.. but if you drive through weho you'll see what I mean. They're in more then good shape... (being general of course) they're all shredded to the bone. I'm sorry, but it's more than just wanting to look xtra good so they can get lots of guys to suck their hammers.
and.. . 2 Inch penis.. obviously i was being general.... Duh

I just wonder if that "cocktail" they take has direct effects on their metabolism and/or fat levels, and maybe if some non hiv's take it anyway for that effect.
 
Rippeddrago said:


I just wonder if that "cocktail" they take has direct effects on their metabolism and/or fat levels, and maybe if some non hiv's take it anyway for that effect.

The HIV drugs do cause a drastic reduction in body fat. But there is a distinctive HIV look that is quite different from someone of normal health who is shredded. It may be that distinctive look you are noticing. Often their faces are quite gaunt and skeletal looking.

But as I said earlier, only a tiny tiny number of the shredded gay men you see have HIV.
 
Many of the HIV drugs are implicated in the loss of sub-Q bodyfat in people with HIV. This is particularly true of Zerit (aka D4T). The disease itself causes metabolic problems that can also contribute to fat loss/redistribution as well. It has been fairly well established that Zerit, in particular, causes programmed cellular self destruction of fat cells, particularly under the skin and in the face and the extremities. Since the fat cells are destroyed, it has yet to be determined if, upon long term removal of the patient from Zerit, if the body will be able to create "new" fat cells to replace what was lost.

The problem in HIV positive people is that the disease and the drugs used to treat it also can, and often do, cause serious lipid elevation and fat metabolism problems. People with HIV have a very difficult time metabolizing fat but on the other hand, also have a very hard time digesting it either so it tends not to absorb into the body from food very well.

So when the sub-Q fat cells are destroyed, the newly released fat needs to be combusted (metabolized) or stored somewhere else in the body. It is this "somewhere else in the body" that is the center of the lipodystrophy issue as it will typically get transferred and packed inside of and around internal organs, beneath the abdominal wall (giving the infamous "crix belly look") or a "buffalo hump" on the back of the neck. The likelihood of lipodystrophy is greatly increased if blood lipid levels are not kept under tight pharmacological control. This is usually accomplished by using cholesterol lowering medications like Lipitor. Trigylcerides, which also become seriously elevated seem to respond best to "cold water fish oil" as trigylcerides do not typically respond to any prescription medications that I am aware of at this time--remember "cod liver oil?"--blech!! But it works and this has been scientifically demonstrated in at least one moderately recent study related to this issue. I have personally also seen enough blood work results that clearly have convinced me that it works extremely well also. At least now, fish oil comes in capsules so you don't have to taste it.

So that is a brief synopsis of the world inside of HIV and fat metabolism--or at least as best as I can distill it at this point in time--there is a tremendous amount of information out there and it is difficult to keep up with all of it all of the time. It is a subject still under much discussion and controversy and none of what I say should be construed to be absolute fact as it is based on current medical literature, and the medical community's best "guess" about what is going on. I have also thrown in my own observations as well that pretty much confirm in my own mind what I have just said. More will no doubt follow.

All of what IS known is related to HIV and its treatment. I am not aware of anything that studies any of these medications for any other purpose and doubt that anything is likely to be done scientifically along those lines in the foreseeable future.

The million dollar question then becomes, what would happen to a person that had NORMAL fat metabolism as they are HIV negative AND are not on other "offending" medications relative to blood lipids becoming elevated and redistributed? Let's face it, the idea of a medication "killing the fat cells under the skin" seems pretty appealing to a lot of guys wanting to get ultra shredded.

Of course, there are some down sides to consider. There still is the facial wasting issue (fat cells are also destroyed in the face resulting in that "sunken, hollow look") and this alone can cost several thousand dollars of cosmetic surgery to even attempt to repair. I have not yet seen one case where it was possible to completely repair the damage as there is considerably more fat in the face than one may realize under normal circumstances. Zerit will, for all practical purposes, remove pretty much all of it along with the sub-Q fat from what I have seen in people that use it for treatment of HIV.

The other down side is that Zerit is Known to cause serious mitochondrial toxicity issues which is a known and listed side effect. It has been observed that up to 70% of the mitochondria in a given cell can be dead due to Zerit. As this is the site of cellular energy production, what does this say about the issues of fatigue and muscle weakness, both of which are also listed side effects--gee that would have been a no brainer! The other issue is that Zerit can cause serious blood lactase elevation issues which also may contribute to fatigue and muscle weakness not to mention recovery issues. These effects do correct themselves upon removal from the drug, however. For a link to the NIH which gives good information on the side effects, etc. for all of the currently FDA approved drugs, check out:

http://www.aidsinfo.nih.gov/

So anyone ever tried this stuff that isn't HIV positive? I would be really curious as to what they observed.

But the REAL question is WHO IS THAT GUY IN HansNZ's PIC? LOL
 
NorCalBdyBldr said:
The million dollar question then becomes, what would happen to a person that had NORMAL fat metabolism as they are HIV negative AND are not on other "offending" medications relative to blood lipids becoming elevated and redistributed? Let's face it, the idea of a medication "killing the fat cells under the skin" seems pretty appealing to a lot of guys wanting to get ultra shredded.



I was thinking just this very thing before you wrote this.

I wonder if some genius can develop this drug into a topical gel so that I can rub it on my belly and avoid effecting my face :)
 
"I was thinking just this very thing before you wrote this."

You still haven't answered if that is you in the pic under your profile name......
 
The HIV drugs do cause a drastic reduction in body fat. But there is a distinctive HIV look that is quite different from someone of normal health who is shredded.

Hiv drugs do not cause a dreastic reduction in body fat... no one is sure exactly what causes it. Probably a combination the disease and the steroids and the drugs... Together they some speed up you metabolism while at the same time killing your mitochondria ( the powerhouse of the cell) Nasty shit indeed
 
Maxrepp is right on, I've been pos a long time and didn't start seeing the hyper ripped look until I was in my mid 30's. It has to do with the combination of steroids, meds, and most of all the longevity of the virus, If you remember seeing the news when aids broke in the early 80's they showed guys on their death beds, before steroid treatment, and newer med-cocktails I.E. Zerit ect.. they were deathly thin just bone and a little muscle no fat...
So all you idiots out there thinking it would be great to be so ripped, and what would happen if a non'hiv poz person took these meds would you get the same results, NO the meds cause the fat to move around and buldge out in other areas like the back of your neck, or the ever popular crixivan belly it's called "lipodystrophy" look it up........
 
"OK, firstly, not all of those good looking gay guys are on an HIV cocktail because - shock, horror - 99.9% of gay people don't have HIV."

WRONG. 33% of gay men have hiv. source: CDC
 
33% of gay men have hiv. source: CDC

As the openly Gay man on here, I would say this is closer to the truth. Thanks!
 
Rippeddrago said:
Whatever the deal is... more then just gay guys wanting to look good, why are they all jacked and more so, ripped?? Are they all on Growth, Anavar? Someone told me it's the cocktail of medicine they're given. Any insight folks?

It's not the HIV meds. It's physicians giving HIV+ males easier access to steriods. The argument that it prevents wasting is so-so as a reason. Yes, it adds lean body mass and some guys really need that but, for the most part, its easier access over perceived "quality of life." And the guys that are really big and ripped don't know when big gets to be TOO big....
 
A gay dude at my gym is on all kinds of shit his triceps are ripped his legs are veiny and tiny and his gut is just fucking bloated nasty looking but he has abs it really quit disturbing to look at him.He told me its the virus has eating away his body fat and next its will be working on eating up the muscle the drugs have built and in 5 more years he will prb be dead. But with out these drugs he would have been dead 15 years ago. So even as nasty has he looks now .Its just a blessing to even be alive.
 
NorCalBdyBldr said:
Many of the HIV drugs are implicated in the loss of sub-Q bodyfat in people with HIV. This is particularly true of Zerit (aka D4T). The disease itself causes metabolic problems that can also contribute to fat loss/redistribution as well. It has been fairly well established that Zerit, in particular, causes programmed cellular self destruction of fat cells, particularly under the skin and in the face and the extremities. Since the fat cells are destroyed, it has yet to be determined if, upon long term removal of the patient from Zerit, if the body will be able to create "new" fat cells to replace what was lost.

The problem in HIV positive people is that the disease and the drugs used to treat it also can, and often do, cause serious lipid elevation and fat metabolism problems. People with HIV have a very difficult time metabolizing fat but on the other hand, also have a very hard time digesting it either so it tends not to absorb into the body from food very well.

So when the sub-Q fat cells are destroyed, the newly released fat needs to be combusted (metabolized) or stored somewhere else in the body. It is this "somewhere else in the body" that is the center of the lipodystrophy issue as it will typically get transferred and packed inside of and around internal organs, beneath the abdominal wall (giving the infamous "crix belly look") or a "buffalo hump" on the back of the neck. The likelihood of lipodystrophy is greatly increased if blood lipid levels are not kept under tight pharmacological control. This is usually accomplished by using cholesterol lowering medications like Lipitor. Trigylcerides, which also become seriously elevated seem to respond best to "cold water fish oil" as trigylcerides do not typically respond to any prescription medications that I am aware of at this time--remember "cod liver oil?"--blech!! But it works and this has been scientifically demonstrated in at least one moderately recent study related to this issue. I have personally also seen enough blood work results that clearly have convinced me that it works extremely well also. At least now, fish oil comes in capsules so you don't have to taste it.

So that is a brief synopsis of the world inside of HIV and fat metabolism--or at least as best as I can distill it at this point in time--there is a tremendous amount of information out there and it is difficult to keep up with all of it all of the time. It is a subject still under much discussion and controversy and none of what I say should be construed to be absolute fact as it is based on current medical literature, and the medical community's best "guess" about what is going on. I have also thrown in my own observations as well that pretty much confirm in my own mind what I have just said. More will no doubt follow.

All of what IS known is related to HIV and its treatment. I am not aware of anything that studies any of these medications for any other purpose and doubt that anything is likely to be done scientifically along those lines in the foreseeable future.

The million dollar question then becomes, what would happen to a person that had NORMAL fat metabolism as they are HIV negative AND are not on other "offending" medications relative to blood lipids becoming elevated and redistributed? Let's face it, the idea of a medication "killing the fat cells under the skin" seems pretty appealing to a lot of guys wanting to get ultra shredded.

Of course, there are some down sides to consider. There still is the facial wasting issue (fat cells are also destroyed in the face resulting in that "sunken, hollow look") and this alone can cost several thousand dollars of cosmetic surgery to even attempt to repair. I have not yet seen one case where it was possible to completely repair the damage as there is considerably more fat in the face than one may realize under normal circumstances. Zerit will, for all practical purposes, remove pretty much all of it along with the sub-Q fat from what I have seen in people that use it for treatment of HIV.

The other down side is that Zerit is Known to cause serious mitochondrial toxicity issues which is a known and listed side effect. It has been observed that up to 70% of the mitochondria in a given cell can be dead due to Zerit. As this is the site of cellular energy production, what does this say about the issues of fatigue and muscle weakness, both of which are also listed side effects--gee that would have been a no brainer! The other issue is that Zerit can cause serious blood lactase elevation issues which also may contribute to fatigue and muscle weakness not to mention recovery issues. These effects do correct themselves upon removal from the drug, however. For a link to the NIH which gives good information on the side effects, etc. for all of the currently FDA approved drugs, check out:

http://www.aidsinfo.nih.gov/

So anyone ever tried this stuff that isn't HIV positive? I would be really curious as to what they observed.

But the REAL question is WHO IS THAT GUY IN HansNZ's PIC? LOL



Firstly, Hiya Norcal, good to see you guys on here.

Second, being a poz bodybuilder, the effects of the most harmful meds can be mitigated. The fat issues seem to be tied to insulin resistance. By watching for and elimination most forms of sugars, most importantly high fructose corn syrup and eliminating the most toxic meds, the fat issues can be reversed. You might end up having to do 30 min of cardio everyday, but it can be done. An AA friend has done it and i'm in the process.

There is a triglyceride lowering med out there, I'm on it. Gemfibrozil. and it's generic so it's just a 10 buck co-pay.

Mass General and Harvard are doing a 3 year study on the use of low dose HGH to reverse the mitochondrial problems. Results are looking good.

More and More diet is being looked at, along with the fact that some of the meds kills the nuts dead, these seem to be the key sources of body change and the docs are getting real good at intercepting these.

Zerit is now considered a second tier drug, and crix is not even recommended anymore because of it's toxicity.

Finally for some of us surgery is an option. in my case my ab issues are more due to the fact that I was dropped, fully geared up, by boat monkeys on a wreck dive in Lake Michican, tearing the tissues joining the two sides of the abs apart. this can now be fixed orthroscopically with minimal recovery. Laser guided lipo is an option for others, again it's far more accurate than old style lipo.

Every month brings new info. Nelson Vergel has a good Yahoo group called POZhealth that can keep you up to date on alot of it.

happy lifting
Brock
 
Here is my take on your question...Gay men who are HIV+ tend to take better care of their bodies. As for me, I do not take any recreational drugs of any kind. Nor do I smoke, or drink. Its all about how one treats one body.
:rainbow:
 
chazk said:
A gay dude at my gym is on all kinds of shit his triceps are ripped his legs are veiny and tiny and his gut is just fucking bloated nasty looking but he has abs it really quit disturbing to look at him.He told me its the virus has eating away his body fat and next its will be working on eating up the muscle the drugs have built and in 5 more years he will prb be dead. But with out these drugs he would have been dead 15 years ago. So even as nasty has he looks now .Its just a blessing to even be alive.

O. K. I'm going to take this one, and I'll try to be brief.

For PWA's, body composition, LBM, fat, high lipids, and just plain looks are difficult to paint with just one brush. AIDS waisting is DIFFERENT from lipo. It is true that some people do have an 'AIDS' look to them. There is a porno star named Tony something that has that look. Lipo either eats away or redistrubates body fat whereas AIDS waisting eats away at muscle, NOT FAT. A dear friend of mine, Albert Kraus from Chicago was 300lbs when he died from AIDS waisting.

But, yes, it is great just to be alive. now, if I could only figure out now what to do with the rest of my life now that I have lived 11 1/2 years with 'full blown' AIDS, graduated from college, almost finish my second book, and have now lived at least FIVE more years that anyone expected. BTW, my entire HIV drug regime consists of ONE pill a day. Thanks! Alan Chiras.
 
HansNZ said:
The usual reason is that gay men, like women, are exposed to men's greater emphasis on physical beauty. As such they invest more effort in their looks than straight men who experience less such pressure from women.

Gay men get a double dose because they experience the pressure to be "beautiful" not just from other men, but also from their own male emphasis on visual beauty.
that is true, from my point of view. I'm not hiv+ yet I do two cycles a year. need to get that ripped look to I can continue getting that 25-40 age group of hot men. I have to at least look as good as they do; yeah, its a bummer, but when I score its a home run! :qt: :rainbow:
 
I know of a plastic surgeon here in Chicago that focuses a lot of his work on the restoration of facial wasting related to hiv. In his study, which pre-dates a lot of the anti viral therapies in the late 80's he concludes that the fat loss in the face is a result from the disease itself. In his case, I can't argue since his study pre-dates the anti-viral therapy.
I've also read somewhere that Caucasian men are more prone to this unwanted side effect of the disease and that Africans, Hispanics and Asians are less effected.
I personally do know of a couple people off hand who have HIV since the late 80's and have actually no physical signs whatsoever (visually speaking of course).
I do know what you guys are talking about. Some of the muscle bound men that look way too shredded look like they could just say, "I think I'll compete in a bodybuilding contest" and BAM, 2 days later (basically only needed for tanning purposes only) they're ready to go for it. Throw in a little crystal meth (as so many gay men seem to love using) and you have yourself the gay bodybuilding diuretic for that added cadaver like quality to their definition.
It's complicated because a lot of guys in this situation also use HGH and can usually get their hands or at least could have on several boxes of this stuff a month! The underground market for serostim kits in the gay community was plentiful at one time. I read of one disaster where a guy was taking so much GH that he had to have open heart surgery to drain the fluid around his heart. He was taking way too much. So distinguishing between HIV lypodystrophy "crix" belly and GH gut can pose a difficult task. The facial wasting can be a sign but I know of quite a few people who have that hard exaggerated laugh line and sunken cheek that don't have HIV. My brother for one, and I know he's not HIV.
 
rodneyabs said:
"OK, firstly, not all of those good looking gay guys are on an HIV cocktail because - shock, horror - 99.9% of gay people don't have HIV."

WRONG. 33% of gay men have hiv. source: CDC

If you believe the this statistic you are a moron
 
rodneyabs said:
"OK, firstly, not all of those good looking gay guys are on an HIV cocktail because - shock, horror - 99.9% of gay people don't have HIV."

WRONG. 33% of gay men have hiv. source: CDC

Well CDC stats are always 2 years behind and also 33% is just an estimate too. I don't think every gay man registers with the CDC...
 
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