Please Scroll Down to See Forums Below Did a search...only found "testimonials" really. How should I cycle 1 -test, 6 OXO, and 1 AD? I am planning on 8-10 weeks. I weigh 180 currently, about 10% BF. Should I include 1 AD or 4 AD? How many mg's should I use per day? Is 6 OXO the best "anti E" i can get? I plan on using Tribestan, Tribex also...should I use the Anti E's throughout the cycle or towards the end?...and finally..what are the best brands to purchase?....I've heard good and bad about 1 test....some say 10 15 lbs some say nothing...guess we shall see...THANKS!
Advice on 1 Test, 6 OXO, 1,4 AD. Cycle advice.
- Thread starter Rogue47
- Start date
Well first off you must know what each is...
1-ad precurser to 1-test(converts to 1-test in body)
1-test steroid that is suposedly 7 times as anabolic as test
4-ad conerts at 15% to test in th body and itself is 95% as potent as test
6-oxo used for post cycle to get nuts going
now that you know that you can figure it out.... 1-ad is oral and works pretty good. go only with ergopharm....
1-test is best go only with a transdermal(avant,or bdc(best)
4-ad is best done transdermally but if you want to do oral go ergopharn 300 select.
Now I would suggest the BDC t1-pro.. It is the best bang for the buck... Then for post cycle get 3bottles of 6-oxo... Only do 2 4 week cycles with a 4 week break in between...... While on yor off take 300mg/day 6-oxo for 30days....
BUT ...... I would also suggest learning how to homebrew. If the legislation goes through you won't be able to get anything so know how to do it yourself is a BIG asset... Talk to ya..
www.bdcnutrition.com/forum to find out about homebrew....
1-ad precurser to 1-test(converts to 1-test in body)
1-test steroid that is suposedly 7 times as anabolic as test
4-ad conerts at 15% to test in th body and itself is 95% as potent as test
6-oxo used for post cycle to get nuts going
now that you know that you can figure it out.... 1-ad is oral and works pretty good. go only with ergopharm....
1-test is best go only with a transdermal(avant,or bdc(best)
4-ad is best done transdermally but if you want to do oral go ergopharn 300 select.
Now I would suggest the BDC t1-pro.. It is the best bang for the buck... Then for post cycle get 3bottles of 6-oxo... Only do 2 4 week cycles with a 4 week break in between...... While on yor off take 300mg/day 6-oxo for 30days....
BUT ...... I would also suggest learning how to homebrew. If the legislation goes through you won't be able to get anything so know how to do it yourself is a BIG asset... Talk to ya..
www.bdcnutrition.com/forum to find out about homebrew....
andezzz999
New member
Hey Bro, I just ordered SuperOne+ Anyway, they had some information available that I wanted to pass on to you for comparison. The One+ is more expensive but hey, we only have one set of nuts right? Besides, you don't really need the 6-oxo with the 1+ (so im told).
I have been on 3 days now. I started day one after my work out and had yesterday off so today is my first day lifting. I don't expect much for a week but I can tell you. The shit burns a little on the skin but you get used to it. I am also told by others you better eat like a horse if you want to make the most of it. Lots of protien.
I will keep you posted if your interested in in the results.... Read on....
Andezzz999
ONE vs. ONE+
The only difference betweem the two, other than ONE having a bit more 1-test per serving, is the inclusion of 4-AD in ONE+. The primary thing this is going to do that could not be provided by an equipotent amount of 1-test, is to provide estrogen. This will have a number of effects.
First, it will cause some fluid retention, which will not only increase strength, but it should ultimately lead to greater muscle growth, because hypertrophy is all about tension overload on the muscle fiber. It might directly aid protein synthesis by increasing cell volume. Estrogen also more directly aids muscle building by increasing androgen receptor density, increasing growth hormone and IGF-1 levels, and enhancing glucose utilization by the muscle.
The precense of estrogen is also necessary for the manifestation of many of effects normally associated with androgen use, such as increases in CNS stimulation/strength, libido, and aggression. Due to their lack of aromatization, and the fact that they suppress natural test (thus, estrogen), users of 1-AD, and 1-test by itself, actually experience as decrease in these areas rather than an increase.
Thus, I think it is definitely advantageous on a bulking cycle.
On the flip side, estrogen also causes some effects that one might prefer to avoid. As mentioned, it causes water retention (though, the amount from 4-AD is in the 3-4 lb range, rather than the 10+ one might get from a testosterone ester). In addition, it can also cause increases in body fat. Thus, ONE is probably the product of choice if you are dieting.
The other big advantage of ONE is its flexibility for stacking. You could still combine it with a 4-AD product such as 4-ADerm, if you wanted some estrogen, but you could also combine it with a DHT precursor to increase your strength to weight ratio. Basically, it allows you to freely mix and match products and dosing as you please.
Optimal usage
One+:
Hard-core dosing: 12 squirts, 2X per day. This will last 15 days.
Moderate dosing: 6-9 squirts, 2X per day. This will last 3-4 weeks.
One:
Hard-core dosing: 6 squirts, 2X per day. This will last one month.
Moderate dosing: 3-4 squirts, 2X per day. This will last 6-8 weeks
I have been on 3 days now. I started day one after my work out and had yesterday off so today is my first day lifting. I don't expect much for a week but I can tell you. The shit burns a little on the skin but you get used to it. I am also told by others you better eat like a horse if you want to make the most of it. Lots of protien.
I will keep you posted if your interested in in the results.... Read on....
Andezzz999
ONE vs. ONE+
The only difference betweem the two, other than ONE having a bit more 1-test per serving, is the inclusion of 4-AD in ONE+. The primary thing this is going to do that could not be provided by an equipotent amount of 1-test, is to provide estrogen. This will have a number of effects.
First, it will cause some fluid retention, which will not only increase strength, but it should ultimately lead to greater muscle growth, because hypertrophy is all about tension overload on the muscle fiber. It might directly aid protein synthesis by increasing cell volume. Estrogen also more directly aids muscle building by increasing androgen receptor density, increasing growth hormone and IGF-1 levels, and enhancing glucose utilization by the muscle.
The precense of estrogen is also necessary for the manifestation of many of effects normally associated with androgen use, such as increases in CNS stimulation/strength, libido, and aggression. Due to their lack of aromatization, and the fact that they suppress natural test (thus, estrogen), users of 1-AD, and 1-test by itself, actually experience as decrease in these areas rather than an increase.
Thus, I think it is definitely advantageous on a bulking cycle.
On the flip side, estrogen also causes some effects that one might prefer to avoid. As mentioned, it causes water retention (though, the amount from 4-AD is in the 3-4 lb range, rather than the 10+ one might get from a testosterone ester). In addition, it can also cause increases in body fat. Thus, ONE is probably the product of choice if you are dieting.
The other big advantage of ONE is its flexibility for stacking. You could still combine it with a 4-AD product such as 4-ADerm, if you wanted some estrogen, but you could also combine it with a DHT precursor to increase your strength to weight ratio. Basically, it allows you to freely mix and match products and dosing as you please.
Optimal usage
One+:
Hard-core dosing: 12 squirts, 2X per day. This will last 15 days.
Moderate dosing: 6-9 squirts, 2X per day. This will last 3-4 weeks.
One:
Hard-core dosing: 6 squirts, 2X per day. This will last one month.
Moderate dosing: 3-4 squirts, 2X per day. This will last 6-8 weeks
nsruffryder34
New member
Ok here goes:
First off curt" how do you figure 4ad is 95% as potent as test?
I believe the correct way would be it is less than 5% as potent as test.
YOu have to remember that for every 100mg of 4ad you take in your body only about 5-6mg survives the liver. Of that 5-6mg only 15% is converted to test, so for every 100mg of 4ad you take you get about .9mg of actual test.
Secondly the only way to take 1-test is not transdermally, sure it is the best way but taking the ethergels is just as effective.
6oxo is not only to be used post cycle to regain normal test levels but is also a very effective anti-e.
No you shouldnt use 1ad and 1test together, they are both some form of 1test, if you cant go with a transdermal or the ethergels than go with 1ad (600-900mg a day).
First off curt" how do you figure 4ad is 95% as potent as test?
I believe the correct way would be it is less than 5% as potent as test.
YOu have to remember that for every 100mg of 4ad you take in your body only about 5-6mg survives the liver. Of that 5-6mg only 15% is converted to test, so for every 100mg of 4ad you take you get about .9mg of actual test.
Secondly the only way to take 1-test is not transdermally, sure it is the best way but taking the ethergels is just as effective.
6oxo is not only to be used post cycle to regain normal test levels but is also a very effective anti-e.
No you shouldnt use 1ad and 1test together, they are both some form of 1test, if you cant go with a transdermal or the ethergels than go with 1ad (600-900mg a day).
gsxr1000
New member
andezzz999 said:
I'm not so sure about what you've written here. First off several people on here have say they experienced some type of shutdown after coming of off 1-AD (1-test), so 6 OXO would be a good idea to take post cycle.
Also, 4-AD is typically advertised as not easily aromatizing, so why would this article state the opposite that it would cause the addition of estrogen? I'm confused.
riskybizz007
New member
I don't know where you've read that 4AD does not convert to estrogen, but everything I've read indicates otherwise. The only people stating it will not convert to estrogen are the people selling it to you.
I'm pretty new to taking supplements. I will drink a protein shake every now and then, and thats about it. I'm just beginning to power lift. I weight 170 benching 345 with a shirt. Nothing special but I was wondering about this AD supplement. Sounds pretty good. Can I get any information and what I should get if I did get it. Thanks for any help.
nsruffryder34 said:
First off.. Potentcy and Bio-avalibility are 2 different things..... 4-ad taken orally has a 5% bio avalibility of that only 15% converts to test.... Secondly 4-ad by itself not being converted to test is supposedly 95% as postent as test...
Second off transdermally IS the only way to take 1-test if you don't want to waste your money. All other methods are not proven and sketchy at best and cost way too much for what you get......
3rdly why do you think you use 6-oxo post cycle.. You test levels are low so you need something to counteract the estrogen.. Hence its an anti-e and in doing so it aslo gets your nuts going....
So there you go please go and read some more before coming down on me fro not knowing my stuff... Talk to ya...
Oh yeh. 1-test or 1-ad or 4-ad taken fro longer than 3 weeks WILL shut off your nuts. Depending on how long you plan to be on will deternine the proper post cycle.. Only 4 weeks on you can get away with zma,trib,flax,vitex but any longer I woudl recomend something stronger like 6-oxo or clomid or novla....
Also 4-ad as itself can not convert to estrogen but when it converts to test it can. So it has a low conversion to estrogen but whenever I take it in high doeses there is definately estrogen conversion...
1-test and 1-ad can NOT convert to estrogen....
Talk to ya
Also 4-ad as itself can not convert to estrogen but when it converts to test it can. So it has a low conversion to estrogen but whenever I take it in high doeses there is definately estrogen conversion...
1-test and 1-ad can NOT convert to estrogen....
Talk to ya
Last edited:
nsruffryder34
New member
Curt, You are definetly wrong about 4ad being 95% as potent as test, I have no idea where you have read this but until you can sow me more than one study suggesting this than I will say this is totally wrong.
Secondly, 1test is not only effective in transderml form, it is most definetly effective in ethergel fom and you are n no way wasting your money by getting the ethergels. In fact It IS scientifically proven that he ethergels have 46% lymphatic absorbtion, which Ibelieve it may be even higher, and if you doubt this claim I wil show you numerous scientific studies that PROVE this.
4ad Does convert to estrogen, yes you are right it does have to convert to test first But when you take an Effective oral dose in the range of 900mg, you will getAlot of estrogen, this is why people on 4ad get alot of water retention. I am in no way saying 4ad isnt a good PH, it is a great one, but an anti-e such as 6oxo should be used. And 6oxo should not only be used post cycle but should be started in the last weeks of a cycle to combat estrogen, AND to start to boot up the bodys natural test again. If you wait until you stop your cycle to take it, there will definetly be a long "down time".
There is also no evidence that 4ad of 1test taken for longer than 3 weeks will definetly shut off test production, I firmly believe this is accomlished only with very high doses and longer cycles of around6-8 weeks, surely you should be cautious and go with 6oxo and zma or tri, but a 3 week cycle is goin to do nothig for yo in terms of size since there is not a long time for the PH to build up in your body. Another good anti-e and post cycle therapy supp is 4hydroxytest, sold by either promatrix or Molecular nutrtion.
Now jsut for the reccord curt, until you g to school and get your degree in biochemistry, and have a scientific knowledge of the suplement industry I suggest you refrain from trying to bash on me.
Lata
Secondly, 1test is not only effective in transderml form, it is most definetly effective in ethergel fom and you are n no way wasting your money by getting the ethergels. In fact It IS scientifically proven that he ethergels have 46% lymphatic absorbtion, which Ibelieve it may be even higher, and if you doubt this claim I wil show you numerous scientific studies that PROVE this.
4ad Does convert to estrogen, yes you are right it does have to convert to test first But when you take an Effective oral dose in the range of 900mg, you will getAlot of estrogen, this is why people on 4ad get alot of water retention. I am in no way saying 4ad isnt a good PH, it is a great one, but an anti-e such as 6oxo should be used. And 6oxo should not only be used post cycle but should be started in the last weeks of a cycle to combat estrogen, AND to start to boot up the bodys natural test again. If you wait until you stop your cycle to take it, there will definetly be a long "down time".
There is also no evidence that 4ad of 1test taken for longer than 3 weeks will definetly shut off test production, I firmly believe this is accomlished only with very high doses and longer cycles of around6-8 weeks, surely you should be cautious and go with 6oxo and zma or tri, but a 3 week cycle is goin to do nothig for yo in terms of size since there is not a long time for the PH to build up in your body. Another good anti-e and post cycle therapy supp is 4hydroxytest, sold by either promatrix or Molecular nutrtion.
Now jsut for the reccord curt, until you g to school and get your degree in biochemistry, and have a scientific knowledge of the suplement industry I suggest you refrain from trying to bash on me.
Lata
You win. I'm dumb... Make sure you listen to everything he said cause you will waste your money.. Talk to ya....
www.bdcnutrition.com/forum/ (Go here if you want good info)
www.bdcnutrition.com/forum/ (Go here if you want good info)
javaguru
Banned
In rat levator ani assays 4-ad was found to be 95% as anabolic as tetsosterone and 120% as androgenic, according to "Androgens and Anabolics", Vida et al.
I would also like to point out the manufacturers of Andriol found that lymphatic absorption varied dramatically from person to person and dose to dose, which they freely admit. IMO, IM injection is the best route of administration followed by transdermal, and lymphatic.
I would also like to point out the manufacturers of Andriol found that lymphatic absorption varied dramatically from person to person and dose to dose, which they freely admit. IMO, IM injection is the best route of administration followed by transdermal, and lymphatic.
andezzz999
New member
nsruffryder34 said:
Is there any value in a 3-4 week cycle? I want to ease into this product before going 6-8 weeks. I am a week into this stuff and I am not started any 6-oxo because I have been told that 4AD w/1Test will not present a problem with Estrogen? Let me ask this question...Is there any harm in starting 6-oxo in any case? What are the down sides to 6-oxo? Worthwile to be on the safe side?
nsruffryder34
New member
There is value in using 6ox espcially if you use 4ad, 4ad in the doses it is usualy taken in (around 900mg) does have alot of estrogen side effects, It does not directly convert to estrogen but it converts bac from the target hormone (test) into estrogen. There can be some benefit from a 4 week cycle but it really isnt worthwhile doing so short of a cycle. There are no real sides with 6oxo.
Javaguru, I personally jsut do not believe this statement, if 4ad was 95% s anabolic and 20% as androgenic as test then people all of would be making up homebrew injectables. I could be proven wron but until someone proves to me this statement is def. true, I am going to hold on to my belief that this is false. I actually would be happy to suggest to my lab to test this claim and research more into it.
Curt, why are you telling people to go to bdc, hhhmmm because you are a mod there?? You have no background in chemistry,or the supplement industry, and until you prove to me yu actually know what you are saying, stick to bdc and the great people over there.
Javaguru, I personally jsut do not believe this statement, if 4ad was 95% s anabolic and 20% as androgenic as test then people all of would be making up homebrew injectables. I could be proven wron but until someone proves to me this statement is def. true, I am going to hold on to my belief that this is false. I actually would be happy to suggest to my lab to test this claim and research more into it.
Curt, why are you telling people to go to bdc, hhhmmm because you are a mod there?? You have no background in chemistry,or the supplement industry, and until you prove to me yu actually know what you are saying, stick to bdc and the great people over there.
Personally I have had wonderful results with injectable 4-AD. I and a few others I know make homebrew 4-ad all the time. I have used it twice, a good friend of mine who is experienced with several cycles said that he could not tell a difference between injectable 4-ad and test suspension.
nsruffryder34
New member
Yes, you may have had great results with inj. 4ad ( I have too, hehe) but when you compare it to test sus. I dont tink it could match up mg for mg. ALong witht he fact that i has to be injected frequently, If it mathced up mg for mg I think every AS user would be out buying 4adand making a homebrew, it would be much more cost effective and if it gave the same results, this would be great. But when you compare themmg for mg I think test sus would win by far.
andezzz999
New member
I have been using the product a week now, and have felt better in the gym going up on all my weight comfortably. Bench up 20lbs, incline up 10, tricep ext up 20.... Don't know if I am working on a placibo effect or what (who cares I feel better). Just a question about sources. Has anyone delt with a web site called 1fast400.com? That is where I purchased my product. I received it very fast but I never hear it mentioned on the board. Any other customers out there? The stuff is on the pricey side but maybe thats the story everywhere. $85 for a 3-4 week supply?
andezzz999 said:
Adding an anti-e in a cycle that does not need it will hinder your gains. The water retention you get from the 4-ad will be no more if you take an anti-e. Water as you all know if good for muscle growth. Don't take an anti-e unless you need to. If your nipples get very sensitive then you may want to start it but other than that its not needed. Do a 3-4 week cycle and see how you like it. Alot of people like a little longer cycles on 4-ad but trty it out...
NS34.. you have no idea what I do.. So please don't assume. Just cause I don't humur you with the answers you would like does not mean I don't have them...
