Abortion is not killing a human life

[velvett]

I once dated a girl, pretty seriously, who had an abortion. I broke up with her, not because of that, but because of really shallow reasons like she had really small calves.

I dated a guy who wore two pairs of tub socks because he thought it made his calves look bigger.

I mean he was really obsessed with the whole calf thing.

We didn't stop dating becuase of it though - we stopped dating because his other fixation was on cute petite 5' 90-100lb girls and at being a lanky athletic 5'7" and 140lbs it was never clear as to why were ever together.

Then again most of life is like that - you're there one second and the next you find yourself somewhere else, perhaps for the first time and it's a good time to have been had even if it's not a pleasurable moment.

 

[spongebob]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Abortion is not killing a human life

By week 5 the bronchi (breathing tubes) are formed. By week 8 ALL the internal organs are formed. I know this because I just finished my obstetric/gynecology rotation for my 3rd year of med school a couple of weeks ago. A fetus has lungs in the first trimester. By the way, an MD will be my 4th professional level certification or degree, and my 5th college level degree. But of course I am 41 and have accomplished something with my life. After I earn my MD maybe I can go even further in life and be a moderator and answer emails from teenagers.

Although I have probably lost more money in a year than you have made in half a decade (I lost $175,000 in bad investments in 1998), and I could probably have bought and sold you anytime I wanted over the past decade - I don't live in the basement and I don't play the lotto

jesus h christ im rolling over here. i have to admit i thought 2thick's post was funny as hell and then you come back with this one. good luck on the modship thing.

 

[spongebob]

Because a fetus needs medical care to MAINTAIN its life and keep it from D-Y-I-N-G (which you yourself write, indicating it has life), it is similar to a bodybuilder who might vomit from taking ill advised combinations of drugs to drastically lose weight and who respirates (breathes in) his vomitus and requires some form of artificial respiration and rescusitation in order to not die. To see the similarity of these may require you to focus......similar to the way you focus to hunt and peck the correct keyboard keys to churn out posts full of incorrect information based on a totally uneducated opinion.

now your just toying with him bro.

 

[spongebob]

You know...I am going to apologize to everyone for the last post. Regardless of what gets said to me, I should not stoop to making personal attacks. Its really not my way, I tend to prefer to debate with logic. It was a childish knee jerk response to having it insinuated by 2thick that I am some underachiever who lives in my parents basement - obviously I have some issues if I let such a comment from him get to me. I am going to march right upstairs and ask my mom what I should do about this...maybe she can call 2thicks mom and tell her he is picking on me.

I also apologize about discussing money so frankly. I use to think it was no big deal discussing money - I have had it, I have lost it, I have been rather well off and I have been dirt poor struggling in my adult life. But now I realize that no matter what you say about money or how much you make it makes someone uncomfortable. If you make alot it makes those who make less feel bad . If you make very little it makes those who make more uncomfortable, and makes them feel a tad bit guilty for having so much.

Many who makes lots of money probably deserve it less than many who make very little for what they do. My mom made very little teaching 3rd grade for 18 years, and I would be proud to live in her basement today. She deserved alot more than she was paid. I am sorry if I made those who have been fired and are out of work, recently graduated and having a hard time finding a job, who have families and are struggling to make ends meet and feel like a failure because they can't buy their wives nice clothes or their kids the nicest things, and especially any single moms.

My comment was immature, emotional and shitty. Sorry about that.

damn, some deep thoughts on your moms mixed in with a sense of comical genius. you had me going on the apology thing and then hit me with the "telling my mom" thing.

so true about the money thing.

i'd be proud to live in your moms basement also.

 

[spongebob]

Taking responsibility would be raising a child you hadn't planned for or not having a child and the lifetime spent wondering if you should have.

yea, fortunately i have had that great experience. the joy of knowing that i took responsibility head on and concured it. me and my wife. you know i was real careless as a young adult and routinely slept with women without a protection or even knowing if the girls were on BC. when my wife(just a girl i was occassionally seeing at the time) came up pregnent and we were real young and reeeaaalllly poor and didnt really know each other that well. the first words out of my mouth was i'll support the baby. thankfully we both made that decision and now 11 years later my daughter is a wonderful little girl. we could have taken the easy way out. shit we were dirt fucking poor for about the first 8 years, but things got better.

oh well its not for everyone i guess. responsibility that is.

 

[atlantabiolab]

I totally agree but it is always the males who are anti-choice. That is why I need to remind them of the scientific facts.

Do you mean the Middle Ages science that you continue to present? "The organs aren't formed until the third trimester"!?!?!? Did they teach you this in finance class? You wouldn't know a scientific fact if it crawled up your ass and died. Do you not realize that you are wrong on all accounts of your weak attempts in logic?

There are many women who are anti-abortion, but I agree that a large number of women are pro-abortion. This fact is easily understood when one realizes that a group will always support that which provides them with special protections: the elderly and Social Security, immigrants and immigration laws, minorities and Affirmative Action, etc. Simply because a large number of a group supports something does not prove it to be moral.

 

[NoDaddyNo]

I think choice is a bad thing.
Nobody can make proper choices - only me.
All choices of people that are not me, should be regulated by me.
I'm doing them a service, by making their life easier and less complicated. Not to mention that they will always be in the moral right - anything else (meaning something that wasn't my choice), is wrong.

For the record, I'm pro-abortion.
Don't get me wrong - I'm not pro-choice.
I'm pro-abortion - I think everyone should get abortions. Healthy fetus, unhealthy, wanted, unwanted, consenual, rape - whatever - I say kill them all.

choices always were a problem for you
what you need is someone strong to guide you

 

[atlantabiolab]

Humans are the real cockaroaches of the world. There are too many already.

At last you come clean. Vehement pro-abortion advocates tend to be anti-human. Their underlying argument is that humans are despicable organisms that cause only problems and their eradication would be a boon to the earth.

This is more truthful than your pitiful attempts at defining "life" and arguing that living things are really dead. I have more respect for a person who comes out and tells me that he/she could care less that abortions kill individuals as opposed to insulting me with idiotic statements as presented in this thread.

If you care so much about this then go adopt a baby, otherwise STFU.

On this line of logic, all Democrats should adopt a minority or a homeless family.

When are you going to kill yourself to remove one more "cockroach" from this world?

 

[Y_lifter]

So,
if I technically I could take the parasite out and replace Mom with an artificial womb simply to provide nutrients, it would also die ?

 

[velvett]

yea, fortunately i have had that great experience. the joy of knowing that i took responsibility head on and concured it. me and my wife. you know i was real careless as a young adult and routinely slept with women without a protection or even knowing if the girls were on BC. when my wife(just a girl i was occassionally seeing at the time) came up pregnent and we were real young and reeeaaalllly poor and didnt really know each other that well. the first words out of my mouth was i'll support the baby. thankfully we both made that decision and now 11 years later my daughter is a wonderful little girl. we could have taken the easy way out. shit we were dirt fucking poor for about the first 8 years, but things got better.

oh well its not for everyone i guess. responsibility that is.

Well actually I meant that both routes, having a child through an unexpected pregnancy or terminating a pregnancy and living with the consequence or questioning were both an act of responsibility.

 

[atlantabiolab]

Well actually I meant that both routes, having a child through an unexpected pregnancy or terminating a pregnancy and living with the consequence or questioning were both an act of responsibility.

There are no "unexpected" pregnancies, only "unwanted" pregnancies. If you drink Bacardi 151, you cannot claim that you became "unexpectedly" drunk. You cannot remove the potential consequence from the action, the results are causal. The idea of "unintended" consequences is predicated on the notion that you don't understand the consequences. I doubt there is anyone who does not realize that pregnancies are derived from sex, save some mentally deficient individuals. If you do not take precautionary actions to prevent pregnancy, you cannot state that you did not "expect" the ramifications.

 

[Y_lifter]

There are no "unexpected" pregnancies, only "unwanted" pregnancies. If you drink Bacardi 151, you cannot claim that you became "unexpectedly" drunk. You cannot remove the potential consequence from the action, the results are causal. The idea of "unintended" consequences is predicated on the notion that you don't understand the consequences. I doubt there is anyone who does not realize that pregnancies are derived from sex, save some mentally deficient individuals. If you do not take precautionary actions to prevent pregnancy, you cannot state that you did not "expect" the ramifications.

NICE !

 

[kronk]

There are no "unexpected" pregnancies, only "unwanted" pregnancies. If you drink Bacardi 151, you cannot claim that you became "unexpectedly" drunk. You cannot remove the potential consequence from the action, the results are causal. The idea of "unintended" consequences is predicated on the notion that you don't understand the consequences. I doubt there is anyone who does not realize that pregnancies are derived from sex, save some mentally deficient individuals. If you do not take precautionary actions to prevent pregnancy, you cannot state that you did not "expect" the ramifications.

So if you had a 15 year old daughter that was raped by a crazed freak, and the rape almost killed her as she was beaten savagely, AND she got pregnant due to this, that wouldn't be unexpected? Or maybe the girl is only 11 and has had her period, and she gets raped by a priest, or a trusted person in your community or a friend....she doesn't understand sex or anything else but gets pregnant, is that not unexpected? What kind of precautions should have been taken by theses young girls? You say "If you do not take precautionary actions to prevent pregnancy, you cannot state that you did not "expect" the ramifications". How the heck can you say that with the millions of pregnancy's that come from rape? How is it that these women should "prepare" to be raped?

The is most definitely unexpected pregnancy's as well as unwanted pregnancy's.

What is sad is that most of the people out there, (mostly religious freaks) that want to kill the abortion doctors, would get their daughter an abortion if she was raped. Think about it, there are a tremendous amount of young girls that are 10+ years in ago that can get pregnant. If their daughters were raped and then pregnant, they would be the first ones in line to go to the "murdering" doctors to save their daughters.

 

[Tiervexx]

great post kronk!

 

[spongebob]

So if you had a 15 year old daughter that was raped by a crazed freak, and the rape almost killed her as she was beaten savagely, AND she got pregnant due to this, that wouldn't be unexpected? Or maybe the girl is only 11 and has had her period, and she gets raped by a priest, or a trusted person in your community or a friend....she doesn't understand sex or anything else but gets pregnant, is that not unexpected? What kind of precautions should have been taken by theses young girls? You say "If you do not take precautionary actions to prevent pregnancy, you cannot state that you did not "expect" the ramifications". How the heck can you say that with the millions of pregnancy's that come from rape? How is it that these women should "prepare" to be raped?

The is most definitely unexpected pregnancy's as well as unwanted pregnancy's.

kronk dont confuse what he is saying. if the girl is raped regardless of if she was beaten or not(i dont know why that matters in your example) the pregnancy is still expected. because we know that when a man ejactualates in a women it might expected that she will get pregnant. the rape and possible pregnancy may not be wanted but the pregnance is still expected after the rape occurs. the event of becoming pregnant after sex regardless of rape or not is the expected part. its the rape that is not expected.

 

[Tiervexx]

Oh, I love this one. Let's see a woman have a baby without a man. It goes both ways. The man is a necessary HALF in the process. So a man has just as much say over his offspring.

BULL SHIT!! SHUT THE FUCK UP!

your "half" is the easiest thing in the world. Not even remotely close to being close to theirs?

 

[IhateOsama]

The whole abortion debate is fake. Abortions are a Urban Myth. Have you ever seen a abortion done? No of course not. Abortions do not exist.

 

[spongebob]

BULL SHIT!! SHUT THE FUCK UP!

your "half" is the easiest thing in the world. Not even remotely close to being close to theirs?

gimme a fucking break and quit trying to be the spokesperson for women having babies. not even a women should do that!!! i know plenty of women who love giving birth to children regardless of the pain.

 

[Generic MALE]

damn, some deep thoughts on your moms mixed in with a sense of comical genius. you had me going on the apology thing and then hit me with the "telling my mom" thing.

Well the apology was serious, although I mixed some joking in. I tend to joke alot, often when I feel stress, my life tends to be full of stress so I am one funny shit.

Kudos and props on taking care of your child.

Regarding having a choice on terminating a parasites life - I have a child that really can push my buttons - I mean she can really push my buttons - she is 7. I don't think she can survive on her own. Is there any such thing as a 7th year abortion that I can threaten her with next time she acts up?

 

[spongebob]

Regarding having a choice on terminating a parasites life - I have a child that really can push my buttons - I mean she can really push my buttons - she is 7. I don't think she can survive on her own. Is there any such thing as a 7th year abortion that I can threaten her with next time she acts up?

all we have to do is press congress to extend the abortion period. for pro-choice people that shouldnt be a problem.

 

[IvanOffelitch]

You cannot kill anything that is not alive.

If you took a fetus out of the womb anytime before the third trimester, it would die.

Therefore, it is not alive. It is merely a parasite that survives because the mother is alive.

If the mom dies and the baby dies (if it were removed and allowed to breath on its own) then it was still part of the mother and not a life on its own.

Dude, you can try to rationalize this in your own mind `till you're "comfortable" with it all you want, but the facts remain; abortion is murder no matter how you look at it. Why should an innocent baby (yes, I said baby, NOT "parasite" or "mass of cells" or whatever else you try to label it as) pay with it's life for it's parent's immaturity and irresponsibility??

And don't start with that rhetoric about the preteen girls who get pregnant, or the women who are impregnated by rape. This is "life" and in this life, fucked up shit happens. Deal with it. It still doesn't mean an innocent baby should pay with it's life. If anyone should pay, it should be the parents (or the rapist, whatever).

You want solutions? How's this:

1) Give someone convicted of rape 2 options: Life imprisonment in solitary confinement with no chance of parole, or permanent sterilization/castration. They either live out their lives alone in prison with their shit swingin', or they can have it lopped off and get a 2nd chance at life. Sounds plausible to me.

2) Mandatory sterilization for those who choose to abort an otherwise healthy, but irresponsibly conceived baby. This obviously would exclude rape victims, etc; as I said above, the rapist should be punished, not the baby and/or an innocent mother.

Sound too extreme?...doesn't sound anymore "extreme" to me than murdering an innocent baby.

It's time people are held responsible for their actions. It's really quite simple; if you don't want to become a parent, you either remain abstinent until you are ready to, or you practice "safe sex" (which obviously isn't a 100% guarantee).

 

[kronk]

kronk dont confuse what he is saying. if the girl is raped regardless of if she was beaten or not(i dont know why that matters in your example) the pregnancy is still expected. because we know that when a man ejactualates in a women it might expected that she will get pregnant. the rape and possible pregnancy may not be wanted but the pregnance is still expected after the rape occurs. the event of becoming pregnant after sex regardless of rape or not is the expected part. its the rape that is not expected.

First off, I did not confuse what he said. Read what he said and look at my response, its pretty clear. The term "unexpected pregnancy" as it was used on this thread is very valid. There are many unexpected pregnancys in the world today and that was the point that I was making.

Just becuase a man can ejaculate into a female and she may get pregnant, does not change the fact that many females get pregnant though no fault of their own and the pregnancy is "unexpected".

I mean really, the fact that this would even be a topic of debate is simply laughable.

 

[kronk]

Re: Re: Abortion is not killing a human life

Dude, you can try to rationalize this in your own mind `till you're "comfortable" with it all you want, but the facts remain; abortion is murder no matter how you look at it. Why should an innocent baby (yes, I said baby, NOT "parasite" or "mass of cells" or whatever else you try to label it as) pay with it's life for it's parent's immaturity and irresponsibility??

And don't start with that rhetoric about the preteen girls who get pregnant, or the women who are impregnated by rape. This is "life" and in this life, fucked up shit happens. Deal with it. It still doesn't mean an innocent baby should pay with it's life. If anyone should pay, it should be the parents (or the rapist, whatever).

You want solutions? How's this:

1) Give someone convicted of rape 2 options: Life imprisonment in solitary confinement with no chance of parole, or permanent sterilization/castration. They either live out their lives alone in prison with their shit swingin', or they can have it lopped off and get a 2nd chance at life. Sounds plausible to me.

2) Mandatory sterilization for those who choose to abort an otherwise healthy, but irresponsibly conceived baby. This obviously would exclude rape victims, etc; as I said above, the rapist should be punished, not the baby and/or an innocent mother.

Sound too extreme?...doesn't sound anymore "extreme" to me than murdering an innocent baby.

It's time people are held responsible for their actions. It's really quite simple; if you don't want to become a parent, you either remain abstinent until you are ready to, or you practice "safe sex" (which obviously isn't a 100% guarantee).

This has to be the most ignorant post I have ever read. By ignorant I mean "lacking knowledge or comprehension of the thing specified"

I cant possibly spend the time to try and rationally explain all of the things that are simply wrong with this post, but I will simply ask you a question:

If your daughter (if you have or had one), or mother or wife were raped and got pregnant. Then the doctors told her that if she has the baby, she will die because of some other condition (this happens often), would you then tell your wife, mother, daughter "Hey this is life, fucked up shit happens, deal with it". Too bad honey, I'm sorry that you were raped and all, but you are just going to have to die now. Please.....

 

[spongebob]

I mean really, the fact that this would even be a topic of debate is simply laughable.

yes it is laughable, the fact that anyone on this board feels like they have to justify thier opinion on the matter by using circular logic and trying to explain when life begins and ends. its all very laughable. just state your position on the matter and thats it. i dont believe, you do believe, nothing else needs to be said because noone is going to change thier own mind.

technically i still think your wrong. a rape is a unwanted pregnancy not an unexpected preganacy. an analogy would be a drunk driver killing someone in a car accident. the innocent person did not want to die but it is expected because the drunk driver was braking the law. the consequence of the action is expected whether intentional or not by either party. you cant argue physics.

 

[spongebob]

Re: Re: Re: Abortion is not killing a human life

This has to be the most ignorant post I have ever read. By ignorant I mean "lacking knowledge or comprehension of the thing specified"

you have just "owned his ass". all it takes is for you to say,"you are ignorant". that immediately declares you the victor in the debate.

i usually see it as an inability to hold a real intellectual conversation, but that is just my opinion.

 

[2Thick]

Re: Re: Abortion is not killing a human life

Dude, you can try to rationalize this in your own mind `till you're "comfortable" with it all you want, but the facts remain; abortion is murder no matter how you look at it. Why should an innocent baby (yes, I said baby, NOT "parasite" or "mass of cells" or whatever else you try to label it as) pay with it's life for it's parent's immaturity and irresponsibility??

And don't start with that rhetoric about the preteen girls who get pregnant, or the women who are impregnated by rape. This is "life" and in this life, fucked up shit happens. Deal with it. It still doesn't mean an innocent baby should pay with it's life. If anyone should pay, it should be the parents (or the rapist, whatever).

You want solutions? How's this:

1) Give someone convicted of rape 2 options: Life imprisonment in solitary confinement with no chance of parole, or permanent sterilization/castration. They either live out their lives alone in prison with their shit swingin', or they can have it lopped off and get a 2nd chance at life. Sounds plausible to me.

2) Mandatory sterilization for those who choose to abort an otherwise healthy, but irresponsibly conceived baby. This obviously would exclude rape victims, etc; as I said above, the rapist should be punished, not the baby and/or an innocent mother.

Sound too extreme?...doesn't sound anymore "extreme" to me than murdering an innocent baby.

It's time people are held responsible for their actions. It's really quite simple; if you don't want to become a parent, you either remain abstinent until you are ready to, or you practice "safe sex" (which obviously isn't a 100% guarantee).

Have you adopted any babies lately. I did not think so.

You are a hypocrite.

 

[IvanOffelitch]

Re: Re: Re: Abortion is not killing a human life

Have you adopted any babies lately. I did not think so.

You are a hypocrite.

I'M a hypocrite???

I'm not out irresponsibly making babies...exactly HOW does that make me a hypocrite?

 

[2Thick]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Abortion is not killing a human life

you have just "owned his ass". all it takes is for you to say,"you are ignorant". that immediately declares you the victor in the debate.

i usually see it as an inability to hold a real intellectual conversation, but that is just my opinion.

LMAO...you are the same person that compares a toddler with a fetus with no lungs.

 

[kronk]

yes it is laughable, the fact that anyone on this board feels like they have to justify thier opinion on the matter by using circular logic and trying to explain when life begins and ends. its all very laughable. just state your position on the matter and thats it. i dont believe, you do believe, nothing else needs to be said because noone is going to change thier own mind.

technically i still think your wrong. a rape is a unwanted pregnancy not an unexpected preganacy. an analogy would be a drunk driver killing someone in a car accident. the innocent person did not want to die but it is expected because the drunk driver was braking the law. the consequence of the action is expected whether intentional or not by either party. you cant argue physics.

I think you took what I said wrong, I wasnt directing that comment at you SB.

Regardless, your analogy above is off base my friend. You cant say that the death of that person in the car accident was expected. Think about it, how could it be expected that a person was killed by a drunk driver. Of course the innocent person did not want to die and their family did not want them to die, but when they got in their car that day they didnt say "I expect I will die on the way to work today", their death was completely unexpected. The consequence of the drunk drivers actions are not written in stone when he got behind the wheel, he could have simply hurt the person, or hurt nobody at all. It is not expected that he would kill anyone, do you see my point.

The same goes with pregnancy, if someone is taken by force and is raped, you can not "expect" that person to become pregnant. You may understand it as a possibility, but what if they do not become pregnant. This is an argument of semantics my friend, but in the end, pregnancy's CAN BE and ARE sometimes, totally unexpected. Why you cant see that I do not understand.

 

[Hangfire]

Re: Re: Re: Abortion is not killing a human life

Then the doctors told her that if she has the baby, she will die because of some other condition (this happens often).......

WTF are you talking about??? That is so rare that, statistically, it almost NEVER happens. It is not even arguable.

 

[kronk]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Abortion is not killing a human life

you have just "owned his ass". all it takes is for you to say,"you are ignorant". that immediately declares you the victor in the debate.

i usually see it as an inability to hold a real intellectual conversation, but that is just my opinion.

Well that post was directed at him and not you so I am unclear as to why you are responding to me like this.

I wasn't trying to own anyone, I simply made a comment about a highly ignorant post. I put my definition of ignorant there so my words could not be construed as a flame or anything that could be considered disparaging.

 

[IvanOffelitch]

Re: Re: Re: Abortion is not killing a human life

This has to be the most ignorant post I have ever read. By ignorant I mean "lacking knowledge or comprehension of the thing specified"

I cant possibly spend the time to try and rationally explain all of the things that are simply wrong with this post, but I will simply ask you a question:

If your daughter (if you have or had one), or mother or wife were raped and got pregnant. Then the doctors told her that if she has the baby, she will die because of some other condition (this happens often), would you then tell your wife, mother, daughter "Hey this is life, fucked up shit happens, deal with it". Too bad honey, I'm sorry that you were raped and all, but you are just going to have to die now. Please.....

I knew that was coming.

If my wife/daughter were in a situation where carrying out a pregnancy would seriously endanger their lives, then terminating the pregnancy would possibly be a viable option....but only as a last resort.

Were it the rape scenario, I still wouldn't advocate killing the innocent baby. I'd rather see the child go to an adoption agency as a last resort.

I gotta give some of you on this board due credit; I've seen some rather incredible rationalizations, but none of them compare to what I see from some of you.

 

[spongebob]

Re: Re: Re: Abortion is not killing a human life

Have you adopted any babies lately. I did not think so.

You are a hypocrite.

adopting babies will not help, there are plenty of families that will adopt babies. most people who have abortions are not doing so because they are in fear of the lack of people adopting babies. i really dont understand your point with the "you should adopt all the babies or STFU theory" there is no logic to it.

 

[kronk]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Abortion is not killing a human life

WTF are you talking about??? That is so rare that, statistically, it almost NEVER happens. It is not even arguable.

Statistically, 500,000 to 1,000,000 women still die from causes related to pregnancy and childbirth every year. Thats 1,500-3,000 every day.

 

[spongebob]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Abortion is not killing a human life

LMAO...you are the same person that compares a toddler with a fetus with no lungs.

LMAO also.....you are the same person that high tailed it out of your own thread at least twice because you could not defend your "i know when life begins and ends" arguement. PhD 2thick!

 

[velvett]

There are no "unexpected" pregnancies, only "unwanted" pregnancies. If you drink Bacardi 151, you cannot claim that you became "unexpectedly" drunk. You cannot remove the potential consequence from the action, the results are causal. The idea of "unintended" consequences is predicated on the notion that you don't understand the consequences. I doubt there is anyone who does not realize that pregnancies are derived from sex, save some mentally deficient individuals. If you do not take precautionary actions to prevent pregnancy, you cannot state that you did not "expect" the ramifications.

If you were around to read my posts in the past about this topic you would know that I feel very strongly for birth control or no sex. Only stupid people have unsafe sex and complain about any consequence they may face or have faced due to their and their partner's actions.

So I will not take your condescending post personally as you did know not my complete thoughts on the matter, as you do now.

 

[kronk]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Abortion is not killing a human life

If my wife/daughter were in a situation where carrying out a pregnancy would seriously endanger their lives, then terminating the pregnancy would possibly be a viable option....but only as a last resort.

Were it the rape scenario, I still wouldn't advocate killing the innocent baby. I'd rather see the child go to an adoption agency as a last resort.

Interesting, so if it happened to you then it could be a viable option.

So if it didn't mean that their lives were in danger then you would want them to go through childbirth? You would want your wife or daughter to have to carry the baby of the person who raped them for almost 10 months? You would want them to have a constant reminder of the brutal rape over and over, knowing that a part of the person that raped them in growing inside of them? That simply blows me away, I can not comprehend why anyone would even think that way.

 

[DeepZenPill]

His say in having the baby ends at his orgasm.

Ok, so why are men forced to pay child support? It was the woman's choice to have the kid.

 

[2Thick]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Abortion is not killing a human life

By week 5 the bronchi (breathing tubes) are formed. By week 8 ALL the internal organs are formed. I know this because I just finished my obstetric/gynecology rotation for my 3rd year of med school a couple of weeks ago. A fetus has lungs in the first trimester. By the way, an MD will be my 4th professional level certification or degree, and my 5th college level degree. But of course I am 41 and have accomplished something with my life.

LMAO, so you are that old guy in the rotations...hahaha. What you have probably not learned yet is that developing organs mean nothing if they are not functional as part of the whole system. They should cover that in the 4th year.

BTW- The correct Latin spelling is ‘gynaecology.’

Wow, that is great for you. It is hard for dinosaurs like you to make it through. Just wait until residency, though. Your are not 25 anymore and the sleep deprivation and stress will get to you.

After I earn my MD maybe I can go even further in life and be a moderator and answer emails from teenagers.

Yes, that is all I do in life. I moderate boards and answer email from teens. Please keep thinking that if it makes you feel better.

Although I have probably lost more money in a year than you have made in half a decade (I lost $175,000 in bad investments in 1998), and I could probably have bought and sold you anytime I wanted over the past decade - I don't live in the basement and I don't play the lotto

Touched a nerve, eh? Yes, you can try buy and sell me, but first you have to finish med school. Until then, my peers will teach you during the last year of rotations (or BTB depending on which curriculum your school has chosen to employ).

 

[spongebob]

I think you took what I said wrong, I wasnt directing that comment at you SB.

Regardless, your analogy above is off base my friend. You cant say that the death of that person in the car accident was expected. Think about it, how could it be expected that a person was killed by a drunk driver. Of course the innocent person did not want to die and their family did not want them to die, but when they got in their car that day they didnt say "I expect I will die on the way to work today", their death was completely unexpected. The consequence of the drunk drivers actions are not written in stone when he got behind the wheel, he could have simply hurt the person, or hurt nobody at all. It is not expected that he would kill anyone, do you see my point.

no i did not take any comment you posted directly.

as far as the your explaination about the car accident. your right noone expects most events in thier daily lives to happen. just because you dont expect them doesnt negate the fact that under given circumstances like one car hitting another at high speeds the outcome is expected maybe not wanted but is expected. that is physics. if i take to cars and collide them i will expect physical damage to both vehicles, i will expect that the action of one of the vehicles caused the wreck and i will expect that a death is possible.

the consequences of a rapist is not written in stone either, the girl may not become pregnant if the rapist penetrated her anal canal.

an expected event to me is bound by the science of physics. knowing what we know we can expect a result from a set of actions regardless if the result is wanted.

 

[2Thick]

You know...I am going to apologize to everyone for the last post. Regardless of what gets said to me, I should not stoop to making personal attacks. Its really not my way, I tend to prefer to debate with logic. It was a childish knee jerk response to having it insinuated by 2thick that I am some underachiever who lives in my parents basement - obviously I have some issues if I let such a comment from him get to me. I am going to march right upstairs and ask my mom what I should do about this...maybe she can call 2thicks mom and tell her he is picking on me.

I also apologize about discussing money so frankly. I use to think it was no big deal discussing money - I have had it, I have lost it, I have been rather well off and I have been dirt poor struggling in my adult life. But now I realize that no matter what you say about money or how much you make it makes someone uncomfortable. If you make alot it makes those who make less feel bad . If you make very little it makes those who make more uncomfortable, and makes them feel a tad bit guilty for having so much.

Many who makes lots of money probably deserve it less than many who make very little for what they do. My mom made very little teaching 3rd grade for 18 years, and I would be proud to live in her basement today. She deserved alot more than she was paid. I am sorry if I made those who have been fired and are out of work, recently graduated and having a hard time finding a job, who have families and are struggling to make ends meet and feel like a failure because they can't buy their wives nice clothes or their kids the nicest things, and especially any single moms.

My comment was immature, emotional and shitty. Sorry about that.

BTW- I was inebriated when I wrote the part about the basement. It was really funny at the time

 

[spongebob]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Abortion is not killing a human life

Well that post was directed at him and not you so I am unclear as to why you are responding to me like this.

I wasn't trying to own anyone, I simply made a comment about a highly ignorant post. I put my definition of ignorant there so my words could not be construed as a flame or anything that could be considered disparaging.

i did not take your post as any flame or anything directed at me. im just debating here nothing else.

and i did recognize that you had explained the word ignorant in your post. rarely do people do that here.

 

[2Thick]

So,
if I technically I could take the parasite out and replace Mom with an artificial womb simply to provide nutrients, it would also die ?

No matter the vector, if the fetus develops to the final stages, it is a human baby.

 

[DeepZenPill]

BULL SHIT!! SHUT THE FUCK UP!

your "half" is the easiest thing in the world. Not even remotely close to being close to theirs?

Shut the fuck up? I don't think you have any say in this as your penis will not be entering a vagina in your lifetime. Grow up.

 

[2Thick]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Abortion is not killing a human life

I'M a hypocrite???

I'm not out irresponsibly making babies...exactly HOW does that make me a hypocrite?

Saying one thing and doing another makes one a hypocrite.

If you really value life so much then do something to make a difference.

 

[2Thick]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Abortion is not killing a human life

adopting babies will not help, there are plenty of families that will adopt babies. most people who have abortions are not doing so because they are in fear of the lack of people adopting babies. i really dont understand your point with the "you should adopt all the babies or STFU theory" there is no logic to it.

Shut up and adopt.

 

[2Thick]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Abortion is not killing a human life

Statistically, 500,000 to 1,000,000 women still die from causes related to pregnancy and childbirth every year. Thats 1,500-3,000 every day.

OWNED!

 

[2Thick]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Abortion is not killing a human life

LMAO also.....you are the same person that high tailed it out of your own thread at least twice because you could not defend your "i know when life begins and ends" arguement. PhD 2thick!

When was this?

 

[2Thick]

Ok, so why are men forced to pay child support? It was the woman's choice to have the kid.

because they had an orgasm.

 

[Hangfire]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Abortion is not killing a human life

Statistically, 500,000 to 1,000,000 women still die from causes related to pregnancy and childbirth every year. Thats 1,500-3,000 every day.

Please cite your source. Any statistic with a swing of 100% is either fabricated or there is no way to confirm the accuracy and it is, therefore, just a guess.

The current world population is, give or take, 6,365,000,000 people. Even using the 1,000,000 figure, that is only .15% of the world population, annually.

 

[DeepZenPill]

Re: Re: Re: Abortion is not killing a human life

This has to be the most ignorant post I have ever read. By ignorant I mean "lacking knowledge or comprehension of the thing specified"

I cant possibly spend the time to try and rationally explain all of the things that are simply wrong with this post, but I will simply ask you a question:

If your daughter (if you have or had one), or mother or wife were raped and got pregnant. Then the doctors told her that if she has the baby, she will die because of some other condition (this happens often), would you then tell your wife, mother, daughter "Hey this is life, fucked up shit happens, deal with it". Too bad honey, I'm sorry that you were raped and all, but you are just going to have to die now. Please.....

Abortion advocates always like to bring up these VERY RARE situations to try to defend abortion. FACT is, MOST abortions are done in the name of birth control. These few scenarios are not nearly significant to make the option of abortion legal to all people.

If you really want to make a strong point, address the real issue at hand, and that is healthy mothers aborting healthy fetuses.

 

[kronk]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Abortion is not killing a human life

Please cite your source. Any statistic with a swing of 100% is either fabricated or there is no way to confrim the accuracy and it is, therefore, just a guess.

The current world population is, give or take, 6,365,000,000 people. Even using the 1,000,000 figure, that is only .15% of the world population, annually.

LOL, I need to cite a source for that! Its not even what the topic of this thread is about. Are you simply looking for someone to debate with? If so, we can go at it as I am highly skilled in that area, as I am sure you must be.

 

[2Thick]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Abortion is not killing a human life

Please cite your source. Any statistic with a swing of 100% is either fabricated or there is no way to confrim the accuracy and it is, therefore, just a guess.

The current world population is, give or take, 6,365,000,000 people. Even using the 1,000,000 figure, that is only .15% of the world population, annually.

Newsflash!!! You're OWNED!

 

[Hangfire]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Abortion is not killing a human life

LOL, I need to cite a source for that! Its not even what the topic of this thread is about. Are you simply looking for someone to debate with? If so, we can go at it as I am highly skilled in that area, as I am sure you must be.

If its not the topic, then why bring it up? If you're going to spout that bullshit, then be prepared to defend it. If you don't want to be challenged, then don't post that garbage.

 

[Hangfire]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Abortion is not killing a human life

Newsflash!!! You're OWNED!

WTF???

 

[kronk]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Abortion is not killing a human life

If its not the topic, then why bring it up? If you're going to spout that bullshit, then be prepared to defend it. If you don't want to be challenged, then don't post that garbage.

LOL! You truly are a piece of work my friend, why are you so defensive? I brought it up the original example (female dieing in childbirth from rape) as an an example in a rape case which is quite common do to the violent nature of rapes. An example is an instance serving to illustrate, which is what I was doing. For some odd reason you chose to take that and and say that it NEVER happens and is very rare. I gave you a worldwide statistic and you wanted to challenge that as well. Goodness, you must be having a bad day.

For the record, the numbers I pulled out were off of the top of my head. I checked (why I dont know) and according to UNICEF, the maternal mortality deaths figure was 515,000 but that was not current. Accroding to what I have found the rate is rising worldwide. So my numbers were accurate, just not exact. I did not imagine that I would have to prove that over an example. But it never happens......

 

[spongebob]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Abortion is not killing a human life

When was this?

later im off to work, i will respond with one last comment on you theorizing when you believe life is life and when life is just being supported by a machine. and you never answered my question. what is the difference between a premie needing life support and a new born needing life support. just the development of the organs??? is that you whole arguement here.

 

[2Thick]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Abortion is not killing a human life

later im off to work, i will respond with one last comment on you theorizing when you believe life is life and when life is just being supported by a machine. and you never answered my question. what is the difference between a premie needing life support and a new born needing life support. just the development of the organs??? is that you whole arguement here.

Life support is exactly that. It supports life. That means life is missing otherwise. Why else would you need a machine to allow you to breath? A person that dies from a heart attack can be kept alive artificially with machine as long as no organ damage occured.

 

[DeepZenPill]

because they had an orgasm.

Conception is possible without an orgasm.

If they are required to financially support that child, they should have just as much say over whether it lives or not.

Let's say you knock up a girl, but she refused to have an abortion. She just has you pay child support. In effect, she now has say over where your finances are directed. Her choice does not only effect the life of the baby, but she effectively has a good deal of influence on your life. But it doesn't go both ways. Even if you wanted to have the kid and father it, you have no say. So you may potentially face lifelong psychological trauma resulting from the murder of your child.

Now if the sex was consensual, each of the parents are equally culpable for the pregnancy, but the man's desires concerning the baby are irrelevant. If you really think this is logical and just, that's quite a shame.

This kind of illogical and irrational thinking is what makes me really distance myself from the mindless liberals. Bush certainly has my vote for next term, even if it only serves to confound the liberals.

 

[2Thick]

Conception is possible without an orgasm.

Somebody has to have an orgasm.

 

[IvanOffelitch]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Abortion is not killing a human life

Interesting, so if it happened to you then it could be a viable option.

So if it didn't mean that their lives were in danger then you would want them to go through childbirth? You would want your wife or daughter to have to carry the baby of the person who raped them for almost 10 months? You would want them to have a constant reminder of the brutal rape over and over, knowing that a part of the person that raped them in growing inside of them? That simply blows me away, I can not comprehend why anyone would even think that way.

Yes, I would prefer they carry the child to term. As I've said repeatedly, the child is innocent, it does not deserve to die because of someone else's perversion, be that person a rapist, or simply irresponsible "parents" (and I use that term very loosely here).

As far as the constant reminder, I guess that's a matter of perspective. I don't see the baby as the symbol of the violence that happened; it too is a "victim".

Hey, call me old-fashioned, whatever; I still place value on human life, even if it's conceived under such horrible circumstances.

What blows me away is how someone can have such disregard for human life, even so far as to call a fetus a "parasite".

 

[Hangfire]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Abortion is not killing a human life

LOL! You truly are a piece of work my friend, why are you so defensive? I brought it up the original example (female dieing in childbirth from rape) as an an example in a rape case which is quite common do to the violent nature of rapes. An example is an instance serving to illustrate, which is what I was doing. For some odd reason you chose to take that and and say that it NEVER happens and is very rare. I gave you a worldwide statistic and you wanted to challenge that as well. Goodness, you must be having a bad day.

For the record, the numbers I pulled out were off of the top of my head. I checked (why I dont know) and according to UNICEF, the maternal mortality deaths figure was 515,000 but that was not current. Accroding to what I have found the rate is rising worldwide. So my numbers were accurate, just not exact. I did not imagine that I would have to prove that over an example. But it never happens......

Yes, I am a piece of work and, yes, I did have a bad day today--thanks for the concern. The reason I challenged is that you tried to use a bogus incidence of death-by-childbirth to prop up a rationale for abortion by saying that it happens OFTEN. Since you mention a lower figure, that would bring the actual annual deathrate down to about .085%--even more rare. Math is fun!

All I did was argue that your your assertion was false--so the pro-abortion crowd needs to find another reason to kill babies, other than that they just feel like it.

 

[kronk]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Abortion is not killing a human life

Yes, I am a piece of work and, yes, I did have a bad day today--thanks for the concern. The reason I challenged is that you tried to use a bogus incidence of death-by-childbirth to prop up a rationale for abortion by saying that it happens OFTEN. Since you mention a lower figure, that would bring the actual annual deathrate down to about .085%--even more rare. Math is fun!

All I did was argue that your your assertion was false--so the pro-abortion crowd needs to find another reason to kill babies, other than that they just feel like it.

First off, the actual number 515,00 is higher than the lowest number I previously suggested, not lower as you suggest.

Regardless of facts and such, the fact that you would debate with me over an EXAMPLE is simply ludicrous. You say that I tried to use a "bogus incidence" to assert my position but thats false, I used that as an example, however the point can be made very clearly without it.

 

[IvanOffelitch]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Abortion is not killing a human life

Saying one thing and doing another makes one a hypocrite.

If you really value life so much then do something to make a difference.

Exactly what am I "doing" that contradicts what I said? It's not that tough of a question.

As far as "making a difference", by not irresponsibly bringing babies into this world, I'd say I am making a difference.

 

[Hangfire]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Abortion is not killing a human life

First off, the actual number 515,00 is higher than the lowest number I previously suggested, not lower as you suggest.

I stated that your revised number is lower than the 1,000,000 that I was generous enough to use to show that the incidence IS rare.

Regardless of facts and such.........

Well, that really does seem to be the basis of your argument.

 

[2Thick]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Abortion is not killing a human life

As far as "making a difference", by not irresponsibly bringing babies into this world, I'd say I am making a difference.

I see, you want to tell people what to do with their bodies but you do not do anything to help the situation.

Sounds like a bitchy whining liberal to me.

 

[kronk]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Abortion is not killing a human life

I stated that your revised number is lower than the 1,000,000 that I was generous enough to use to show that the incidence IS rare.



Well, that really does seem to be the basis of your argument.

Ok, so what have all of your posts proved. Hmmm, well you took issue to an EXAMPLE that I stated, the only part of my example that you didn't like was the fact I spoke about death in childbirth. If you do the research, I did but don't want to deal with this insane issue anymore, you will see that it is NOT as rare as you might think. Again, so what did all of this prove to you? I still do not see the point of your argument, maybe you can enlighten us all as to your point. My point was an example of rape, yours is what again? You are trying to state that death in childbirth is rare, ok, so lets go with that. It is rare, when looking at millions of people, but it is a fact that it still happens to over 1,500 females every single day. Regardless of this fact, it does not have ANYTHING to do with the point I made earlier. I was not even debating the topic of abortion with you. Please explain what all of your senseless bickering has to do with, what is your point?

You are correct, by argument IS based on facts and such and I thank you for acknowledging that.

 

[IvanOffelitch]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Abortion is not killing a human life

I see, you want to tell people what to do with their bodies but you do not do anything to help the situation.

Sounds like a bitchy whining liberal to me.

I just wanna know 1 thing;
























what color is the sky in your world??

 

[Tiervexx]

Shut the fuck up? I don't think you have any say in this as your penis will not be entering a vagina in your lifetime. Grow up.

Correct, but you will never have to go through child birth in your lifetime.

 

[DeepZenPill]

Somebody has to have an orgasm.

It is possible to impregnate a woman with precum. Very rare, but still possible.

 

[velvett]

I've said this before...


Anyone notice that the only people debating (bitching mostly) here are MEN?



And you wonder why women want the choice to do or not do what they want when they want to their own bodies?

 

[DeepZenPill]

Correct, but you will never have to go through child birth in your lifetime.

This is irrelevant.

 

[2Thick]

I've said this before...


Anyone notice that the only people debating (bitching mostly) here are MEN?



And you wonder why women want the choice to do or not do what they want when they want to their own bodies?

Shush up and get in the kitchen.

The men are talking. We will call you if we want some refreshments.

 

[DeepZenPill]

I've said this before...


Anyone notice that the only people debating (bitching mostly) here are MEN?



And you wonder why women want the choice to do or not do what they want when they want to their own bodies?

To many of the men you are arguing with, this is not about a woman's body, but the body of a child. People can do whatever the fuck they want with their own body, but not at the expense of someone else. With your logic there should not be laws against rape because women should not have a say over how a man uses his body (penis). But you see, rape is wrong because it's harmful to someone. As is abortion.

 

[EF Sam]

Locked