Aaargh, cant drop fat for the life of me anymore!!! help!!

[Burning_Inside]

I dunno what my problem is, but i feel so fat, and i've been trying to drop it for the past 3 months and I've got zero results. So yeah, I'm doing something wrong, but what?

About 2 years ago, I was looking a lot slimmer than i am now, but I really do not remember what exactly i was doing either training wise or eating wise. Anyway, that was then.

About 3 months ago, I started a CKD again. I saw 0 results after 6 weeks. I carbed up every 2 weeks for 2 days. I followed it to a tee. I drank a ton of water and ate a ton of fat and definately under 10 grams of crabs a day, and yes I used the strips to make sure i was in ketosis. No results. Except if you want to count strength loss a s a result.

So for about the past month, I've been Weight training 3 days a week, 2 bodyparts a session, and getting in about 2-3 days of cardio for about 30-45 minutes a time. Cardio consists of jogging/stationary bike/elliptical machine, or some days I'll go outside and do a karate type workout. Now diet,,....Well, I set up my diet to do the 40/30/30 thing. 40 protein, 30 carbs and 30 fat. Basically equaled out to like a bowl of cereal and a can of tuna in water 6 times a day, about every 2 hours or so. Drinking a ton of water too, about 3 liters a day. Everything was figured out so that i was eating at about 12x my bodyweight in calories per day.

But here i am still hovering at 210-215 lbs. Bodyfat still probably at least 15%. 23 years old, male, 6'4" in case you want to know that too. Now what is my problem? You have no idea how this aggravates me, i feel like I'm locked inside my own hell, like no matter what I do anymore, that's it, I'm not going to get any leaner. The only thing I could possibly think of that's left that I could tweak is the calories, I can up them to 14x my bodyweight, which is usually maintenance, but who knows, maybe I'm a freak, maybe I'm just not getting enough cals at 12x? or do I lower it to 10x? or do i get a saw and just cut the fat off my stomach already?

So, this is where you come in, please try not to post speculations, I've speculated enough on my own here, I don't need more clouds around my head, I need wholehearted knowledgeable responses here from the gurus, you know who you are.

 

[keiko]

Kick up your cardio to 60 minutes, 5 times a week. Read WarLobo's post on the Women's board about "30+30".

Have you taken a week off and eaten "normally" to play with your metabolism? Do you have a cheat meal, afternoon, day?

 

[MindGame]

help on this

if i do 40/30/30 p/c/f does this meal for 6meals and can i see results in loosing some gut size or fat if i do it this way? i aint serious in being cut just look somewhat slim so its okay to have good carbs at every meal even for example 7pm 1chicken breast 1/2oats or 1slice toast or something like that?

 

[blood_drinker]

I think your problem is you aint takin it seriously enough. Your attitude
"I don't wanna get **THAT** cut, so I can tweak things and make em more pleasurable/mageable...."

Honestly, that's bullshit. It's all or nothing buddy.
Take it seriously. Do it all the way, and when you're satisfied , you quit. Do not attempt to be dieting and changing your diet when you havent even let the results come in .

Tell you what, this is what I would do . Id make sure Im eating 100% right. People tell me Im obsesed, but trust me it's nto all taht hard....just takes some effort and willpower. Which by the way, if you don't have, you'll stay a fatass the rest of your life. Now , we don't want that.

So, firstly, find your BMR and your AMR and eat 500cals less than your AMR (Active Metabolic Rate).

The formula is as follows
------------------------------
Women: 655 + [4.36 x Weight (lbs.)] + [4.32 x Height (inches)] - (4.7 x Age) = your BMR

Men: 66 + (6.22 x Weight (lbs.)] + [12.7 x Height (inches)] - (6.8 x Age) = your BMR

So say your AMR is 3000cals. Eat 2500cals spread over 6 meals, lower carbs (morning and/or postworkout, depending on when you do your workouts), up the protein to 1.5g / lb bodyweight (otherwise you will lose too much muscle [keep in mind that muscle loss on a diet is inevitable but very avoidable if you weight train and eat correctly, but you need to accept it]), keep sat fat under 20, and do not be scared of fats like olive oil, natural peanut butter, and the ever so famous flax seed oil.
Try supplementing with some shakes or some crap to save you time and $$ *(unless you live in an expensive place).

That sums it up.
Now, finding the right foods is easy. Search.

Good luck mindgame.

 

[keiko]

Blood-I know I give you grief about being obsessed--but you really know your stuff! When are we going to see pix?

 

[Burning_Inside]

Keiko, actually, I'm not hungry at all during the 2 hrs. or so between meals, so no, I don't cheat at all i guess youd say, I MAY once during the week, I recall the other night I ate a bowl of cereal and a bowl of doritos right in a row. But that's really it. I don't do things like that often at all.

 

[cozmokramer]

try the keto diet but don't do the carb up

 

[Burning_Inside]

No, I'm not wasting my time with the keto diet again. It doesn't work for me, period. I should have seen results by only carbing up every other week, but i didnt, and I doubt having no carb up at all will do anything different for me,.

 

[Rockaho]

I'd say your probably right on that. If two weeks didn't get any results then four wouldn't eaither. This just goes to show what works for one don't work for all. I would try a high protien moderate carb. low fat diet supplemented with plenty of EFAs.

 

[keiko]

I don't mean a bad cheat (Doritos!) but a legal planned cheat. I think you may have lulled your metabolism into a complacent mode--You need to keep your body guessing--cycle your carbs, eat a planned cheat meal once a week (I do mine the late afternoon before lower body in the next morning).

 

[Burning_Inside]

I think y sleep patterns kind of keep my metabolism guessing as it is...For instance, tonight, I'm pulling an all nighter because I need to reset myself, I'm tired of going to bed at 7:am. I want to go to bed at 12:am, wake at 9, and do 45 minutes or so of a karate type workout outside, then later in the evening do my lifting, and or more cardio.

 

[BSmooth]

A messed up sleep pattern can't be good.

 

[Burning_Inside]

Not exactly messed up...just different from most normal peoples times, tho sometimes it varies

 

[cyberflash]

Hey buddy,

your strategy is all wrong ! Leave the atkins diet ... and
Counting calories should be the most important.

1) DO NOT GO ABOVE 10 X BODYWEIGHT in your calorie maitenance count. So if you are 210, your caloric maintenance is 2100.

2) Now here's the rub, EAT 500 calories below 2100.
So eat 2100 - 500 = 1600 calories. (don't eat anything above 1600).

3) Have 1 Cheat Meal a week - so your body won't slow its metabolism ... preferrably stuff yourself with protein ... like a nice huge 16 oz. steak.

4) Don't eat anything after 9:00 pm in the evening.

5) Take thermogenics like Xenadrine before working out.

I did this formula ... went from 20% BF to 11% BF ... and now going for 7% BF ... Good Luck

 

[Burning_Inside]

Thanks for that input cyber..

heh, i stayed up all nigth last night to reset my sleeping pattern tonight, and I actually went outside in 90 degree weather to do an hours worth of a karate type workout.

I'm sooo hardcore

 

[BigAndy69]

Hey buddy,

your strategy is all wrong ! Leave the atkins diet ... and
Counting calories should be the most important.

1) DO NOT GO ABOVE 10 X BODYWEIGHT in your calorie maitenance count. So if you are 210, your caloric maintenance is 2100.

2) Now here's the rub, EAT 500 calories below 2100.
So eat 2100 - 500 = 1600 calories. (don't eat anything above 1600).

3) Have 1 Cheat Meal a week - so your body won't slow its metabolism ... preferrably stuff yourself with protein ... like a nice huge 16 oz. steak.

4) Don't eat anything after 9:00 pm in the evening.

5) Take thermogenics like Xenadrine before working out.

I did this formula ... went from 20% BF to 11% BF ... and now going for 7% BF ... Good Luck

210 lbs and he should eat 1600cals

Nooooo, I don't think so.

Burning inside, I don't usually like to tell someone he's wrong, but if you follow his STUPID advice you will truly be in a living hell.

 

[cyberflash]

BigAndy69

but if you follow his STUPID advice you will truly be in a living hell.

if you don't go through hell in your diet and training,
you won't get anywhere. Only, sissy people think bodybuilding training is "living in heaven".

Hey Buddy, let me remind you - Hardcore bodybuilders like ME go through hell in my training and diet PERIOD

 

[BigAndy69]

First of all 10X your bodyweight is not maintenance. It does not take into account the person's bodyfat percentage and the thermic effect of food wich accounts for 10% of heat loss.

To find your maintenance caloric intake multiply your lean body mass by 10. So if you are 210 at 17% BF that's 210(0.83) X 10= 1743. Add 2.5(210)= 525: Total = to 2268. That is the amount you need just to function normally. You multiply it by 1.2-1.9 depending on your activity level.






if you don't go through hell in your diet and training,
you won't get anywhere. Only, sissy people think bodybuilding training is "living in heaven".

I was not taking about living hell in training and dieting because trust me buddy you wouldn't last 10 mins with me in the gym especially on 1600 cals. I meant that he would be in living hell because of what he would look like. When the body will look for fuel, it will use the glucose in the muscles, and THEN your fat stores.

Burning Inside, unless you want to look like an olympic distance runner, DO NOT FOLLOW HIS ADVICE!

 

[cyberflash]

Any nutritionist will tell you that 10X bodyweight is the caloric maintenance for people with slow metabolism. Andy is not taking into consideration that different people have different metabolism.

First of all, I don't look like a runner. I look like a bodybuilder.

Andy is banking on the fact that food will be the source of energy to burn your workout. What I am saying is that I am efficiently burning my bodyfat for workout energy. ..... Andy is burning his food .. NOT his bodyfat... trust me ... I WILL LAST LONGER THAN ANDY ... because I am utilizing my own bodyfat .... 1 lbs. of body fat is 3500 calories .... that's enought to sustain 5 hours of workout. I can do 6 - 8 sets per major body part (workout with heavy weights and intensity ... including reps to failure) for an hour, and in addition, I can run for another 2 hour ...

At this point is is very clear that BigAndy69's suggestion does not utilize any bodyfat at all ... he wants you to eat at a caloric level that will not lower your bodyfat.... it's totally just wrong ... PEACE

 

[BigAndy69]

I'm through arguing with you. You obviously are not worth my time.

Burning_Inside or anyone else, if you follow his advice, don't say I didn't warn you.

If you do take his brilliant advice, post the results on the board.

 

[Rockaho]

Never argue with a fool, someone watching from the side can't tell who's the fool.

You guys have been cracking me up. Everybody is diffrent and no single plan is right for everyone. Hell, both of you make sense. If you try one and it don't work try another.

 

[cyberflash]

By the way, I did say that I went down from 20% BF to 11% BF ... now about 10%

What I didn't say is that I LOST 35 lbs. of pure fat and gained 7 lbs. of lean muscle mass (losing total of 28 lbs. of bodyweight) and my energy level is skyhigh....

I went from 200 lbs. to 172 lbs. of ripped muscles. My biceps went from 14.5 to 16.25 inches. My waist from 38 inches to 30.5 inches.

Try Andy's solution first ... I know it will never work for you .... then you'll have to switch to my formula ... then you see how fast you lose those fatty love handles and add pounds of solid muscles.

 

[Carboholic]

Burning Inside. Any calorie reduction around 1000 per day can cause you to go into starvation mode. This is a combined number, calories burned during exercise and reduction in food calories. Low intensity aerobic exercise burns about 5 cals per minute. Moderate to high intensity around 10 cals per/min. You said that one day you did a 45 min cardio session then a weight training session then later more cardio. At 12 x 215 you are eating about 500 cals below maintenance. If you jog for 45 mins there is another 450 cals plus you weight trained then did more cardio later. It seems likely that your doing to much and putting your body into starvation mode. As far as your body is concerned calorie reduction is calorie reduction, it doesn't know the difference between reduction from exercise or lowered food intake. The simplest way to check if your metabolism has gone to low is with a oral thermometer, every morning. If your readings are consistently low, make changes. Either drop some of the cardio or increase calories, or both.

 

[Rockaho]

I'll have to check the temp thing out. But as far as going into starvation mode cause of cardio I'm not so sure. I would like to hear more on this. If I truly get into burning my fat stores during cardio how would this put me in starvation mode? Please explain.

 

[JB3]

Any nutritionist will tell you that 10X bodyweight is the caloric maintenance for people with slow metabolism. Andy is not taking into consideration that different people have different metabolism.

First off, the title "nutritionist" is a non-existant falsity. People trying to sell you something will call themselves a nutritionist, but there isn't a certification or degree you can attain that will make you a "nutritionist."

I am not yet a registered dietition, but as someone who holds a bachelors degree in dietetics, I can tell you that 10x's bodyweight is prescribed to only bedridden obese patients. Just an fyi.

First of all, I don't look like a runner. I look like a bodybuilder.

What does this mean? You wear pink leotards and a tanktop to the movies?

Andy is banking on the fact that food will be the source of energy to burn your workout. What I am saying is that I am efficiently burning my bodyfat for workout energy.

This is where you really shot yourself in the ass. You cannot, I repeat, cannot utilize fat (dietary or stored) as a sorce of energy for anaerobic activities. Fat cannot be converted, through any mechanism, to glycogen. This is why ketogenic diets will produce ketones... your body cannot convert fat into glucose.


It's fantastic that you've made such progress and for that I applaud you. Did you use any type of AS? Just curious.

Peace.

 

[Carboholic]

Rockaho. A person would not go into starvation mode because of the cardio itself. It is the total caloric reduction of less food + calories burned from exercise. Research has yet to show exactly why people go into starvation mode, but the generally accepted theroy is that it is how humans managed to survive countless ice ages, drought and famine. Our paloithic ancestors did not have the luxery of grocery stores or pizza delivery (poor bastards). I have done the thermometer thing myself the last time I plauted and found my tempature readings were lower when I reduce my intake to greater than 800 cals/day. So, from personal experience I know that (for me) more is not better. Nothing is written in stone, and thats why it's best to experiment and find what is gonna work best for you.
Themometer: $5.95 @ WalMart.

 

[deadlift]

A interesting thing to consider while debating the whole calories in vs. calories out idea, is it is not how many calories you burn vs consume over the course of the day, but over the course of the HOUR! that is why you have to be so anal about eating every 2 hours

 

[MS]

What a silly thread. First of all Burning, get yourself to a doctor and have her do a full blood workup on you. Make sure she checks full panel thyroid, testo, estro, liver, etc..... I mean the works. If all that checks out OK, then get yourself a registered dietician with knowledge and interest in sports. Stop fluffing around and deal with real people with real qualifications. Cyberflash, you either are not in long term ketosis, or you're training is not anaerobic (in other words you might as well wear pink leotards). BTW all guys think they look like bodybuilders when they flex in the mirror LOL. JB3, you should know better than to say "Fat cannot be converted, through any mechanism, to glycogen. This is why ketogenic diets will produce ketones... your body cannot convert fat into glucose." When you go to sit your exam for registration please don't get this one wrong! I know you know all this, I'm just jogging your memory. Triglycerides convert to free fatty acids PLUS glycerol. If the body requires glucose then glycerol can easily be converted to glucose. Dietary and muscle protein can also be used to produce glucose if needed, so it is possible for cyberflash to be producing enough glucose to keep his brain from atrophying, and if he's on a high protein diet he could even refill some of his depleted muscle glycogen (though probably not enough to move a weight big enough to impress the chicks). Deadlift, despite decades of research it would seem that the ultimate predictor of fat loss is still calories in less than calories out. Sure, eating low GI foods (especially protein) more frequently keeps the metabolism ticking over better, but the equation doesn't change. Calorie deficits AND deposits over the day, week or month most definitely count towards fat loss or fat gain.

Most important of all Burning, if you drop your calories very low, you may notice rapid weight loss. But you should also be concerned about your long term health and metabolism and I can assure you that very low calories is not a good idea if you ever want to stop dieting without major rebound weight gain. Good luck in losing that fat.