A good safe way to take injectables

[Realgains]

In regard to injectables you ladies obviously prefer mild androgens like primo, nandrolone, and winstrol but many also like the strong androgen testosterone.

Preference is given to quick release esters such as prop, phenylprop, and winstrol, which isn't esterfied but has a fairly rapid onset and clearance. It would make sence for a women to prefer these esters since if sides come on that they do not like then they can bail out of a cycle sooner.

Primo injectable is very popular but is frequntly faked(test) and is in a long acting ester.

More and more females are injecting various steroids and testosterone LESS frequently than men do. This allows for most of the hormone to clear the system prior to the next injection. This seems to negate androgen build up somewhat, which of course can cause virilization.

Here are a couple of common choices and schedules....

Test Prop injected at 25- 50 mg once every 5-7 days for 8 weeks. A man would inject usually every other day for optimal hormone levels.
Another one is nandrolone phenylprop at 50-75 mg once every 7 days for 8-10 weeks. The phenylprop ester has a slightly longer half life than prop and thus the injection once per week. Men usually don't bother with this ester since only low doses per mg are currently made and this requires a large injection volume.
Nandrolone Phenylprop is a great hormone choice for the serious female lifter as it is very ananbolic and quite mild androgenically.

A good safe stack would be to use test prop and nandrolone phenylprop at 50/50 ratios. In this way one could get some of the benefit of test but with a reduction in total androgen. 25 mg of nandrolone phenylprop and 25 mg of test prop injected once every week would be great and also pretty safe.

The above doses are very moderate but can give excellent results. Top competitors and pros take a heck of a lot more and inject more frequently. I know of ladies that take 200 of test and 200 of nandrolone per week! They are of course very large and all have low voices and I bet they have had significant body and facial hair growth. (thank God for laser hair removal)

My wife just got her Superanabolin( nandrolone phenylprop) and can't wait to start with it. It a human grade nandrolone from the Checz republic and comes in 25mg per ml amps or 25mg/ml 2cc vials. She plans to do 50mg once every 5-7 days...will keep you all posted. AND I hope she decides to sign up with Elite.

RG

 

[Realgains]

Yet another example. Why not take the nanddroprop according to half life? Why 5-7 and not 3-4?

Spatts for optimal results yes you should take injectables once or twice per half life and if you are not that concerned about androgenic sides then wnat to put on as much muscle mass as possible then this is how you should do injectables.........but for those that are especially concerned about androgenic sides and want to be extra safe they can get very nice results form injections done less frequently. This is, by the way, how doctors give testosterone replacement therapy to females....they usually inject no more than once every month with an ester like enanthate.

I am just throwing up options for females....Remember the title of my post now.


My wife wants to start her cycle injecting once every 5-7 days and then perhaps she may switch to a more frequent schedule as that has not been discarded altogther ...she is quite paranoid now from her experience with test prop where she injected small doses every other day. She doesn't want much if any more clit growth and with every other day injections no time is allowed for androgens to clear the system and they do build up over time.

Also Bill Lewellyn recommends that females use injectables this way and he certainly knows more than me.

RG

 

[Realgains]

I thought docs only did that so women wouldn't skip periods.

...not that it should matter, necessarily.

I still don't understand the point of letting levels drop off for 2-3 days, then spiking them back up. Seems worse than a constant, level, low dose to me.

Yes you are correct Spatts......and the skipping of periods is an androgenic side. They wish to avoid all androgenic sides.

RG

 

[Realgains]

Spats Awesome Avatar!!

I really like this one.........sexy erectors he he eh

RG

 

[Realgains]

That doesn't explain what YOUR wife is doing.

What do you mean?

 

[Daisy_Girl]

It's my understanding (and I could be wrong!) that the longer a women is on, the more of a chance the androgenic side effecs will happen. That there will be a "build up" of andgrogens in the body and side effects are more likely. Which is why a cycle of Test should only be about 8 weeks long. Longer increases the likelyhood of angrogen build up in females.

Basically, dosing more frequently as to maintain constant levels is ideal. Which is easier in men because there is more room for error. I think the reason for dosing less frequently for females reduces chance of sides - less chance for androgens to build up.

But I can see where you are coming from Spatts - constant low dose better than spikes of high levels frequently. I agree with that - which is why when I start NP I had already decided to split my dose into 2. I'll start with 50mg/wk split into 25mg every 3-4 days. Seems like a compromise to me.... but maybe I am way off base.

But I doubt I am saying anything you don't already know....

 

[Realgains]

spatts one must aways consider several things when trying to avoid androgenic sides. First one needs to consider the androgenic strength of a particular hormone. Then one needs to consider dose. Lastly one need to consider time "on" the hormone.

A women could probably take a single shot of test cyp for example at 200 mg and get little to no sides, She would also get some gains from this athough not dramatic. Now if you take this 200mg every week for 12 weeks you will certainly get androgenic sides.

Here is another example from male users......I can do a two week cycle with very powerful roids in quick acting esters and at high doses and experince almost no sides. I do gain off this method. Now if I try to do this for 8 weeks sides come on.

It takes time for androgens to do their nasties...like hair loss, acne, prostate hypertrophy, body and facial hair growth, voice tone lowering, gonadal shrinkage etc.

In females the reason why the voice lowers is because the androgen causes the vocal cords to grow. It takes time for the cords to grow. Cord growth is like clit growth...take androgens for a short period of time and clit swelling occurs and this is generally subsides post use. But if you take that same androgen and dose for a longer period of time then actual clit growth occurs and this does not go away. One can take small doses of very mild anabolics like anavar and for long periods of time without experiencing much clit growth but even with this roid a long cycle produces more unwanted sides.

Anavar is 17 aa and as such it is somewhat hard on the liver but more importantly is messes with ones cholesterol profile even at relatively small doses(as do all roids) So why have a negatively affected cholesterol profile for 4 months when you can get great gains in two months.

Lastly one needs to understand that the best gains from AAS cycles come from the second week through week 6. After week six the rate of gain is reduced and after week 12 its really reduced. So why subject the body to 12 week or longer cycles when the best gains are seen before this time. I think 8 weeks is plenty of time to make some really good gains and this goes for men and women.





Hope this helps
RG

 

[Realgains]

It's my understanding (and I could be wrong!) that the longer a women is on, the more of a chance the androgenic side effecs will happen. That there will be a "build up" of andgrogens in the body and side effects are more likely. Which is why a cycle of Test should only be about 8 weeks long. Longer increases the likelyhood of angrogen build up in females.

Basically, dosing more frequently as to maintain constant levels is ideal. Which is easier in men because there is more room for error. I think the reason for dosing less frequently for females reduces chance of sides - less chance for androgens to build up.

But I can see where you are coming from Spatts - constant low dose better than spikes of high levels frequently. I agree with that - which is why when I start NP I had already decided to split my dose into 2. I'll start with 50mg/wk split into 25mg every 3-4 days. Seems like a compromise to me.... but maybe I am way off base.




Yes but a constant low dose will produce more sides than a spiking low dose....ie 50mg of test per week with dosing every other day VS 50 mg of test taken once every seven days.

In the second example a higher hormone spike is seen but then the androgen is allowed to clear. In the first example androgens are not allowed to leave the female body and this carries more risk.

Now with men that are taking relatively large doses for optimal gains then allowing the hormone to clear makes little sense. After all androgenic sides in men don't make us look and sound like females. I wish the opposite was true.
RG

 

[Daisy_Girl]

RG - all that makes sense to me, I do understand about side taking time to come on, etc. Longer time on increases sides, etc.

But I still don't see how splitting a 50mg dose into 2 25mg doses keeps the drug in your body any longer than taking one 50mg dose ASSUMING A 3-4 DAY HALF-LIFE.

Can you dumb it down even further for me?

 

[Realgains]

Since you used cyp as an example, I know several ladies who used it at 50mg a week for about 12-16 weeks, and even spiked the dose to 100/wk in the middle with NO perm sides and relatively few temporary sides. They have also repeated this same cycle for years, a few of them never go off.

It really must be an individual thing.

My initial thought is that if a person (woman) is going to be THAT nit-picky about androgenic sides, don't take an androgen.

MS, W6, you wanna feed this to me with a spoon? I'm still curious.

Yup 50 of cyp per week can be fine and give few sides in some but it almost always causes permanent clit growth.

I don't think being very concerned about androgenic sides means a person shouldn't take the androgen...I am always very concerned myself and I have been doing gear for 19 years with good and fairly safe results simply because I have been concerned about androgens.

RG

 

[Realgains]

I have never known a woman to have perm. clit growth from that level of test, at that length.

I don't know every woman though.

Well it usually will grow at that dose but everyone is different in their tolerance to androgens. Your not going to get a one inch clit from that dose but expect some permanent growth. Some get lucky and only experience increased vag discharge and some minor acne at that dose but not all are so lucky as test is a pretty strong androgen and its metabolite is the very strongest androgen(DHT)

I had a girl friend back in the early 80's that did 50 of test cyp per week for about 12 weeks and her clit got plenty big and stayed that way. It was about 6mm long and about 4mm wide and looked exactly like a little penis.(we did measure it)
My wife didn't even go for 6 weeks on 50 of prop per week and her clit has not shrink by much...but then again she has only been off for a few weeks.
But really a large clit is noe that big of a deal but permanent facial hair and the voice tone of a man is for most ladies I think.

I had a national level training partner back in the 80's too that did large doses of test and nandrolone and she sounded like a guy...I don't know if she waxed her face though but she did visit my mother who has doing electrolysis at the time.

RG

 

[MR. BMJ]

Yep its time to ask the ol' question again...lol.

Seriously.

Realgains, Have you had much experience working with females that have used Anadrol at low dosages? I've tried it on about 3 girls that got very good gains from it while getting ready for spring break a few years back. They had very little sides and virilization effects. Of course, I got the idea from Duchaine, who wrote about it in his "Death Wish Dieting" article from his Dirty Dieting Newsletter.

These girls were not preparing for a show, and although I tried modifying their diets, they were not overly dedicated. They were gonna do some type of juice whether I helped them or not. The took a simple 12.5 to 25mg's per day.

A lot of people gasp at the idea from using A-50, but i think the sides are overly exaggerrated...although I do know everbody is different and will react differently to each drug to some degree or another, female speaking of course. With these low dosages, cost is not really a factor as well, making it a real bargain compared to others that are outrageously priced.

I'll stop here and read some responses, if anybody wants to mention anything. This is just mainly to keep the conversation going for discussion.

THANKS,
BMJ

 

[Hannibal]

My initial thought is that if a person (woman) is going to be THAT nit-picky about androgenic sides, don't take an androgen.

Exactly...

 

[Realgains]

Facial hair and voice deepening are not necessarily perm. either. We've talked about this before.

Spatts thats not true at all. Once the voice drops thats it. Minor recovery is possible but it will never be the same as it was.The same goes for facial hair ....it may not grow as much if you stop doing roids but you will always have growth where you didn't before.

RG

 

[Realgains]

Exactly...

There have been many ladies that have been very concerned about androgenic sides and they have done well even at national levels. I have trained several over the years. Some of these ladies have managed to avoid a voice tone drop and facial hair growth through prudent and wise use of steroids.
Why on earth would you think that if one want to use roids minimally then you shouldn't use them at all.
You have it backwards..... minimal use of roids, with strong concern about androgenic sides, should be the norm and not the exception. One should always use as little gear as possible to achieve your goals.

RG

 

[Realgains]

Yep its time to ask the ol' question again...lol.

Seriously.

Realgains, Have you had much experience working with females that have used Anadrol at low dosages? I've tried it on about 3 girls that got very good gains from it while getting ready for spring break a few years back. They had very little sides and virilization effects. Of course, I got the idea from Duchaine, who wrote about it in his "Death Wish Dieting" article from his Dirty Dieting Newsletter.

These girls were not preparing for a show, and although I tried modifying their diets, they were not overly dedicated. They were gonna do some type of juice whether I helped them or not. The took a simple 12.5 to 25mg's per day.

A lot of people gasp at the idea from using A-50, but i think the sides are overly exaggerrated...although I do know everbody is different and will react differently to each drug to some degree or another, female speaking of course. With these low dosages, cost is not really a factor as well, making it a real bargain compared to others that are outrageously priced.

I'll stop here and read some responses, if anybody wants to mention anything. This is just mainly to keep the conversation going for discussion.

THANKS,
BMJ

I have had some experience training female BBers and I have been training partners with a couple national level competitors that told me what and how much they took.

Yes you are correct anadrol at low dose can work for some and give few sides. In fact I have known some to use d-bol and trenbolone acetate in very low doses with few sides. Its a matter of understanding the androgenic strength of a particular roid. If one knows that a roid is very powerful androgenically then much less of a dose is needed to achieve great results. Dose and time "on" are key.

One good thing about anadrol is that one can bail out of a cycle a lot easier than one can bail of a cycle of injectable primo which is in the long acting enanthate ester.

I have known MANY ladies that have gotten themselves into deep trouble using Primo. They end up using too much because they think its very safe and weak androgenically.

I believe anadrol has been used medically to treat women with anemia and with few sides at low dose...I will have to look it up again.
RG

 

[Realgains]

No one is suggesting that a woman should not be concerned/cautious of androgenic sides. Do you REALLY think that delaying the injection by 1-2 days is making THAT big of a difference? For what it's causing in dose fluctuation? Do you understand that everytime you encounter a peak and valley the body, in an effort for homeostasis, puts ALOT of energy into a series of reactions to stabilize? It's not apples to apples with your monthly analogy... I UNDERSTAND the logic for that. I don't understand what 24-48 hour does for your wife other than give a false sense of security regarding the potential for sides.

Spatts first of all its more than 1-2 days. ...
For best results one should inject test prop every other day and I said inject once every 5-7 days. For nandrolone phenylprop one gets best results from injecting every third day and I said inject once per week.

Yes the peaks and valleys are not all that good but allowing most of the hormone to clear before injecting again will indeed reduce the chance of androgenic sides and give much better results than training naturally.
All I am sying here is that this method is an OPTION for females and probably the safest way for a females to use roids. I am not the only one to recommend this as Steroid guru Bill lewellyn strongly supports this method as well and I have read where ultra guru Bill Roberts also supports this method.

Spatts its just an option...I am not saying that it is perfect or best for all. In fact if one wants optimal results then one shouldn't use this method.

RG

 

[Realgains]

I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm saying I don't understand it. I need the reaction by reaction explanantion. You do this, which yields this, which does this, which yields this....etc. Since when is test prop best done once a day?

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=151558&highlight=half+life

Spatts I said test prop is best run every other day and not every day.......although I know of many men that use it daily.
I thought I have been fairly clear on the whole issue.


I give up

 

[Realgains]

OK...EOD. I still don't understand that. I am simply asking why. It has nothing to do with you. Don't take my need for education/explanation personally.

You obviously know about something that I'm not familiar with, and I want the classroom, dry erase board, diagramed version of how it works.

Spatts prop has a half life of about 2 days. For optimal blood hormone levels, and best results, one should inject injectables once per half life or even more frequently. For prop that means every other day.
I know a lot of guys, and even some ladies, that inject it daily with winny or tren but every other day is fine.

About these frequent injections.....its best to use an insulin syringe and a 25 or even 27 guage pin as the insulin syringe gives plenty of pushing power and the 25 or 27 pin will not cause scarring.

RG

 

[BigEasy]

No long boring studies to back this up, just the past 20 years of anectdotal observation. Only three women ever showed full sides, and they didn't care, which isn't surprising because they used about 5g of AAS per month. Anyway, I will exclude those three as they are the only exceptions in all this time. (Yes, statistically significant if this were a clinical. But then again, I said this was anecdotal, and no serious study would use this few subjects.

Clit Growth - This is a touchy area for me to report (no pun intended) because after I married, I did not see/measure this first hand. I must assume there is some exaggeration and some understatement by those involved, so lets call it a wash.
The younger ladies usually were slightly quicker experience clit growth, and it seemed to be more rapid when it happened. Those reporting it almost immediately after starting a cycle seemed to always experienced *some* growth with every cycle. It didn't seem to matter the AS, dose, duration, or timing. The younger ladies also reported that the growth would subside somewhat between cycles (1 week to 3 months), it never completely went back down. The younger the lady and the more AAS taken seems to be directly proportional.

Older ladies reported some swelling, but it almost always went away. They did report that they could feel it still when they were aroused. Again, this may be imagination or pure BS.

Hair Growth/Loss - This seems to be more genetic because it was all over the place. This time younger women with fair hair and complexions were affected least. Women with substantial body hair and older women seem to be affected more. The ladies with fairly thin hair were always the ones to complain of hair loss. Not sure if this is because they were already attuned to their thin hair.

Skin/Acne -Again this seems more genetic than anything else, plus a wild-card factor seemed to ve involved. Younger women with a history of skin problems were affected worse than anyone else. Older women with a history of acne didn't seem to have issues as often.

Voice- Again somewhat genetic, but it seems as though dose and steroid does matter here. Only a few experienced voice deepening that bothered them, and a couple of them were singers that should not have ever messed with AS. Those that never went past the whispery/sore throat/dry cracky stage recovered 100 percent. Lower doses wer accomplished by fewer mgs, extending times beteween dose, etc.

Again, you mileage will vary!

 

[hightest]

Good info.

 

[MS]

"I thought docs only did that so women wouldn't skip periods.
I still don't understand the point of letting levels drop off for 2-3 days, then spiking them back up. Seems worse than a constant, level, low dose to me."

The main reason docs give women less frequent injections is a matter of convenience. Same reason injectable Test Undecanoate is becoming more popular for replacement therapy in men. Docs are trying to balance the inconvenience of IM injections with the desire to maintain stable androgen levels and minimize sides. In an ideal world (which researchers are still looking for!) you would have a perfectly time-released transdermal preparation or implant which kept androgen levels at exactly the therapeutic level with little variation.

So if you don't mind giving yourself an IM injection every day, or twice a day, then you will get the absolute least side effects from taking your weekly dose and dividing it into 7-14 small injections no matter which ester you're using. Most women are not keen to try this and in the real world it's not necessary. As long as the total dose is low, then frequency of dosing is not that critical for most of the esters. If you take it less frequently then you take more of it in one hit and will have a wider variation of circulating androgen over time. Basically if you're that worried about sides, you shouldn't be using androgens. If you want to use androgens then dose as frequently as you find practicable. After all, it's not easy to divide 50mg of nandrolone prop into 7 daily injections unless you know how to dilute your prop in a sterile manner!

 

[Realgains]

Ok, question: If ester changes half life, and its optimal to take any drug every day, then does this mean that half life has nothing to do with dosing? Or is it just the Max number of days you should go?

Its just the max number of days you should go. Inject at least once per half life. For test cyp that means once every week and for prop that means once every other day.

 

[MS]

With steroid ester depot injections, the half life of the release from the depot is what is usually quoted since that's effectively what your receptors "see" (plus or minus a couple of hours for distribution, ester cleavage etc...)

 

[Realgains]

All the literature I have shows the test prop half life at 4 days (4.5 to be exact).

I believe lobo posted those numbers on the test ester thread as well.

...are we talking about site clearance half life or serum half life, and which SHOULD you go by?

The half life of prop is not 4 days.......Bill Roberts would go blue in the face if you told him that. he he he

RG

 

[Realgains]

In Bill lewellyns Book "Anabolics 2002" he has a graph showing the pharmacokinetics of prop. Blood hormone levels peak about 18 hours post injection and stay at the peak until day two at which time blood hormone levels drastically drop by 2.5 days and by 4 days there is just a trace of prop in the system.


I think it is best to use prop every other day for optimal results but Bill lewellyn thinks that females should use in the way I gave as AN OPTION.

"The doseage schedule should also be more spread out for a female bodybuilder, with injections coming every 5-7 days. The dosage obviously should be lower as well, generally in the range of 25-50 mg per injection. Androgenic activity should be less pronounced with this schedule, giving blood levels time to suffficiently decrease before the drug is administered again" Bill Lewellyn

Here is a quote from Bill Roberts in reply to a direct e-mail.

" For test replacement purposes males and females should dose as often as possible as this keeps hormone levels comfortably even. When talking about steroid use in females in doses that provide for good muscle gains it has been my experience that females experience fewer side effects from androgens by dosing less frequently than men. This allows androgens time to clear in between injections. Grant it, results will not be as good using this method, but sides will be less. Therefore test prop should be given once per 5-7 days or so." Bill Roberts

And lastly here is a quote from T-mag.

"The half life of test propionate is roughly 2 days" Bill Roberts

RG

 

[Realgains]

Understanding Drug Half-Lives - by William Llewellyn
There are a number of factors that can affect the potency of a particular drug compound. One such factor, and perhaps one of the most important, is the half-life of the agent. In medicine, the term half-life refers to the duration it takes for half of a given drug dosage to break down in the body. It is not half of the total activity time, as this figure always refers to the time it takes to metabolize 50% of what is in still the body. For example, if we inject 100mg a steroid with a half-life of 4 hours, at the four-hour mark we should have only 50mg left as active. After another four hours have passed the drug is still in the body, however another half-life has expired and the total active dosage will be around 25mg. It may take several half-lives before the drug is completely inactive.

A good way to illustrate half-life is through the "flipping penny" experiment. I remember it well from my high school earth sciences class, and I'm sure many of you have probably done this exercise as well. This experiment involves placing 100 pennies inside a flat, closeable box. It is big enough that the pennies can sit side by side comfortably without overlapping each other. We begin with them all facing "heads-up". Next we close the box, give it a good shake, and then open it back up again. We then proceed to remove all pennies that are now "tails-up" in the box. This process is repeated until all of the pennies have been flipped and are removed from the box. We find that with each shake we loose about half of them. Around 50 the first flip, 25 the second, a dozen of so on the third, and so on. Although half of the original amount are tailed and removed on the first flip, it takes many successive tries to clear them all. And usually there are a couple of kids in the class that just can't seem to get the last few over without a lot of work. This illustrates well the way in which we measure drug metabolism in the body. Half-life is not an easy reference for the total time a drug will be found active in the body, but more a guide to optimizing a dosing schedule and avoiding unwanted peaks and troughs.

Unaided Steroid Half-Life

In the early years of steroid research, half-life was one of the biggest roadblocks to the development of commercial compounds. Natural steroid hormones have very short half-lives, which can make maintaining a normal blood level very difficult. For example, the half-life of free testosterone in the blood is only a few minutes (1), and from the site of injection it is well short of one hour. It is also so easily processed by the liver, that when you take it orally only a tiny fraction will actually be intact by the time it reaches the blood. With the oral route too difficult, repeated regular injections would probably be the only option to use testosterone for therapy at all. Obviously this is extremely tedious and uncomfortable to do, which led scientists to focus closely on ways to extend the life of this and other hormones in the body. Lets take a close look at the two most popular methods that were developed and ultimately adopted by the pharmaceutical industry for extending steroid half-life.

Oral 17alpha alkylation

You have most lively seen this reference in steroid materials. 17alpha alkylation is a process in which an extra carbon atom is added to the steroid molecule at the 17th position. This atom occupies a bond needed for the steroid to reduce to inactive 17-keto form, totally inhibiting this pathway of metabolism (2). The addition of 17 alkylation works to extend the half-life of the steroid considerably. With it we present we have half-lives measured in hours instead of only minutes. Unfortunately 17alpha alkylation also can lessen the ability of the steroid to bind to the androgen receptor. But the two traits balance out such that typically we still have a more physiologically active steroid molecule though (3). This alteration is the most favorable for oral dosing. Since the liver cannot process this type of steroid well, a large percentage will make it to the blood stream intact. It however is also somewhat toxic to the liver, and therefore less than ideal, especially if we are considering another avenue of administration such as injection.

Esterification for Injection

Most injectable steroid compounds utilize esters to increase their half-lives in the body. Esterification is a process where a carboxylic (fatty) acid is attached to the steroid molecule at the 17th beta position. One purpose of this is to protect its active 17-hydroxyl group. It is a prime target of steroid metabolism, and with the ester present this is prevented. The ester also makes the steroid compound more oil soluble. This makes it more difficult for the blood to pick it up and carry it into circulation, and likewise slows the rate the drug can leave the injection site. As a result, an inactive deposit of steroid can sit at the site of injection, releasing slowly for days or weeks into the blood stream. Once free in the blood the ester is removed quickly by enzymes, and the base steroid is rendered active.

We can look at the half-life of injectable compounds in two ways. The first is the half-life for the release of the steroid from the injection site. This is usually measured in days with most commercial steroid preparations. In fact the total active lifespan of most oil-based esterified injectables is measured in weeks, sometimes several weeks. The second measure is to look at its half-life in open blood circulation. This is more a figure for personal interest sake than any practical application however, as the only relevant measure to the user is its release half-life.

In any event, we can look at a human injection study with nandrolone decanoate (Deca) and see some pretty accurate figures on both measures (4). First we find that Deca exhibits a mean half-life of 6 days for the release of steroid from the injection site. You can see why people say that Deca can technically be active for as long as a month after injection. Next we find a half-live of about 4 hours for the hydrolysis of serum nandrolone decanoate to free nandrolone, and the total distribution and metabolism of nandrolone. The half-life for simply the removal of the decanoate ester was about an hour or less. Provided in the chart below as well are the relative half-lives of nandrolone and two other esters of it from intramuscular injection depot (5).

Compound Half-Life

Nandrolone 30-40 minutes
Nandrolone phenylpropionate 1 day
Nandrolone decanoate 6 days
Nandrolone laurate 10 Days


References

1- Metabolism of Anabolic Androgenic steroids. V. Rogozkin. 1991 CRC press.

2 - Metabolism of synthetic steroids. Fotherby K, James F. Adv. Steroid biochem pharmacol 1972 3: 67-165.

3- Binding of 17-a-methyltestosterone in vitro… Wiita, Artis, Ackerman and Longcope. Therapeutic Drug Monitoring. 17(4) 377-80

4- Pharmacokinetic parameters of nandrolone (19-nortestosterone) after intramuscular administration of nandrolone decanoate to healthy volunteers. Wijnand, Bosch and Donker. Acta Endocrinol 1985 (suppl 271) 19-30

5- Implications of basic pharmacology in the therapy with esters of nandrolone. Acta endocrinol 1985 (suppl 271) 38-43

YOUR THOUGHTS?

Sounds good to me.......but I would question phenyprops half life of 1 day.

RG

 

[MS]

Who's thoughts?? IMHO that is essentially a correct simplified version of what you need to know about depot half-lives. There are volumes of other, much less relevant stuff you could go into regarding :

Volume of Distribution
Absorption
Extent of Protein Binding
Clearance
Elimination Rate Constant
Rate of Elimination
Half-Life
Amount of Drug Present at a Given Time
Amount of Drug in Body
Plasma Drug Concentration
Fraction of Drug Lost from the Body
Fraction Remaining and Excreted
Fraction of Drug Remaining in the Body
Concentration and Half-Life
Etc…

And that's just for drugs with first order kinetics (such as AAS)

Other things to consider (no matter what the frequency of dosing relative to half-life) are that it takes 4-5 half lives to reach steady state kinetics. This also applies if you increase the dose….it takes another 4-5 half lives to reach the new, higher, steady state. You can reach steady state more quickly by using a loading dose, but this is not necessary with drugs that have a short half life.

As for lower sides with less frequent doses in women, I have no idea why this would be the case. The steady state levels would merely be a more lumpy straight line (higher ups and downs) but the mean level would be the same. We can only take the word of the Bills on this, though it does not intuitively make sense to me. But there are many things we don't know about women's pharmacology (to put it mildly). We DO know that women given as little as 50mg deca every two weeks still developed sides over 4-6 months. Would the sides have been as bad if they had been given 8mg EOD?? I don't know.