5x5 progression/missing weights.. question??

[blut wump]

Well, there's nothing wrong with your weight progression. It looks very sensible.

One thing I notice is that you're taking the Friday 3-rep weight and adding to it for the Monday top set. The top set for Monday should equal the 3-rep set from the previous Friday. It might not seem much but adding 2 pounds out of 250 as you approach old maxes is not insignificant. Do you think you'd have fared better with a couple of pounds less?

Dropping down 5 pounds as a mini-reset is a good plan, even if only for purposes of confidence. If you need to take slightly longer breathers between sets then take them. Obviously, don't get lazy but rest enough to give yourself your best shot at getting the set.

If you stall again then it might be worth looking at a different rep-range to get some progress. See how it goes and don't over-bump your weights.

Don't be afraid of touching your chest. I've never had a bar that I'd had any real chance of getting stall actually on my chest and the extra bit of momentum from chest to sticking point might be just the difference you need to get the bar through the sticking point. Not to mention that failing to touch your chest is also a fail.

My comment in the last post about a spotter giving some finger-help being a fail might be worth some explanation. Obviously, there is the aspect of its not being all your lift if it isn't 100% your own effort. Besides that, there's the aspect of straining and neural efficiency. If you know that it's going to be all down to you to get the bar through the whole lift then you're more likely to kick your mind into a bit of overdrive to push through something that you might otherwise have looked to the spotter to help with. That extra straining will go towards making you stronger as you learn to recruit more muscle fibres on demand.

Make it clear to your spotter that he shouldn't be anywhere near the bar unless you are calling for help or have been squished already.

 

[get456]

Well, there's nothing wrong with your weight progression. It looks very sensible.

One thing I notice is that you're taking the Friday 3-rep weight and adding to it for the Monday top set. The top set for Monday should equal the 3-rep set from the previous Friday.


Don't be afraid of touching your chest. I've never had a bar that I'd had any real chance of getting stall actually on my chest and the extra bit of momentum from chest to sticking point might be just the difference you need to get the bar through the sticking point. Not to mention that failing to touch your chest is also a fail.

My comment in the last post about a spotter giving some finger-help being a fail might be worth some explanation. Obviously, there is the aspect of its not being all your lift if it isn't 100% your own effort. Besides that, there's the aspect of straining and neural efficiency. If you know that it's going to be all down to you to get the bar through the whole lift then you're more likely to kick your mind into a bit of overdrive to push through something that you might otherwise have looked to the spotter to help with. That extra straining will go towards making you stronger as you learn to recruit more muscle fibres on demand.

Make it clear to your spotter that he shouldn't be anywhere near the bar unless you are calling for help or have been squished already.

The spreadsheet from Madcows site has me doing my 3 rep set friday and doing that for 5 reps on the following monday (2 days later).... I think you are saying that should actually be 9 days later?

As for not touching my chest... That was my impression, not touching is a fail.. im not doing any sissy shit and cheating isnt helping my progress in any way, so theres no point in doing it... Cheating only does one thing, its cheats ME out of real progression.

I like the last thing you said about the spotter too... that is what happened last night with my inc's, i thought i was toast for the last one but i kept pushing that fucker and it went up... spotter kept his paws off the bar as he was instructed and it worked!


Couple other things that I personally noticed as I was typing out my post with my numbers in it:
1- i had to do two full sets before I got to bench on monday, that could have made a real difference when we are talking about missing by 1 or 2lbs or a few inches from my chest.
2- i think i need to pay a bit more attention to my loading... i get lazy with the microloading and adding 2lbs on my top sets... or upwards of 20lbs on my first set could make a cumulative difference.

 

[blut wump]

Re Fri -> Mon weight, you did 248x3 on Fri and then 250x5 on the Mon. Thus my comments on the extra 2 lbs. I see you've edited since then.

Maybe that's a flaw in the spreadsheet that the percentage changed by that small amount on the Monday top set from the Friday top set. It might be worth sending Madcow a PM or email.

I wouldn't sweat the odd few pounds on earlier sets but even a small difference on the top set can make or break when the going gets tough.

Doing rows before chest would have made some difference. Lats play a big part in benching especially near the bottom of the movement. Increased fatigue would also play a part.

 

[get456]

I think any programming error is mine in being lazy with the micro loading

I will pay much better attention to this in the future for sure.

Thanks for your input despite my hard head!

 

[blut wump]

Glad to help.

Good luck.

 

[Protobuilder]

The way I understood the explanation of the intermediate program on madcows site: If you miss the last rep then you just use the same weights for that lift next week and try to get all the reps.

In other words: don't drop the weight. Stay with the same weight until you get all your reps.

Are you getting enough sleep?

Are you accustomed to this much volume, meaning total tonnage per day?

Have you read the program explantion on madcows site or are you just using the spreadsheet?

Posting your increases between ramping sets will help us understand what you are doing.

I am currently using a 3x5 beginner program from Mark Rippetoe's book "Starting Strength" to prepare me for the intermediate 5x5. While my increases on squats and deads have been great, increasing the bench and incline has taken every bit of effort I can produce. The guy who trains with me has experienced this also. You are working with smaller muscle groups in the pressing excercises, so this is no surprise.

Don't be concerned. Stick with it, and don't fuck with it.



You widened your grip? The last time I did that I blew out my shoulder. The grip is the problem. IMO: You should try a comfortable shoulder width grip, and whatever you do, don't change anything else about your form in the middle of a program.

ETA: keep your elbows in too.

You sound like one of the few wise trainees! Sounds like you're doing everything right. Nice job.

BlutWump: you deserve an award for your help in this thread. LoL

Bench is a perennial problem w/ people starting on madcow's version of the 5x5. BlutWump already covered it all. Presses can be very finicky, meaning an adjustment of just a few pounds, or shortening your rests by 30 seconds, can throw 'em off and they will stall.

 

[bigred133]

You sound like one of the few wise trainees! Sounds like you're doing everything right. Nice job.

Thanks. I didn't see any reason to assume I could be considered intermediate just because I spend the last 2-3 years in the gym trying various methods.

The gains are faster with the beginner 3x5 Starting Strength program, the testing process allowed me to find the correct starting weight, and I'll be quite used to the big lifts when I have to reset and go to the intermediate 5x5. The books explains everything about proper form for the lifts, and keeps me from doing things like changing my grip

I will also know what my true 5RM is when I start the madcow intermediate 5x5.

 

[Protobuilder]

Thanks. I didn't see any reason to assume I could be considered intermediate just because I spend the last 2-3 years in the gym trying various methods.

The gains are faster with the beginner 3x5 Starting Strength program, the testing process allowed me to find the correct starting weight, and I'll be quite used to the big lifts when I have to reset and go to the intermediate 5x5. The books explains everything about proper form for the lifts, and keeps me from doing things like changing my grip

I will also know what my true 5RM is when I start the madcow intermediate 5x5.

In a year, if you stick to this approach and work through stalls etc., you will be one of the smartest trainees online. Seriously. The most valuable aspect of running Ripp's 3x5 or madcow's version of the 5x5 is the LEARNING aspect.
If you do it, and do it right, afterwards you will be very comfortable with training in general and able to do pretty much whatever the hell you want, and be fully aware of how to do it, the tradeoffs involved, what works for you/what doesn't, etc. It's about so much more than just getting stronger.

 

[Madcow2]

The spreadsheet is just a guide. For most people it works. The bench is the most common problem but it stems from people training it harder and with lower reps than any other lift they do, being too agressive (i.e. putting hard 5RM lifts in for week 4 which they then have to do 4 previous sets and other exercises before), and either making jumps that are too big or suffering from not having microplates.

Reset it and make small jumps (i.e. below the 2.5% may even be a good idea until you get it going). Always take the smaller of two options. You will add more weight to your bench over time by making more consistent smaller jumps for long periods than stalling and taking weeks to reset every time.

 

[blut wump]

Something I realised on the issue of micro-plates is that my pair of spring collars weighs 0.5Kg and my screw-on collars weigh 1Kg for the pair. Between them, I can squeeze some 1 lb increments between having to add another pair of 1.25Kg plates. They're a cheap alternative to sourcing and buying micro-plates, especially since spring collars just litter the floor at some gyms.