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5 * 5 question

H

halfaclue

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I don't get this...lets say you are doing flat bench and right now I can do 275 for 6 and 305 for 3.
So do I do 285 and try to get 5 sets of 5? What happens if I get to 5 on the first 2 sets and only 4 on the third? I always lift to failure on everyset, or close to it, so stopping at a number when I feel I can do more is very hard for me to comprehend. Advice? Explanation?
 
the way I understand it the 4th and 5th sets are the only ones you should be approaching failure on. lots of people doing this routine here that can answer that though bump
 
This is the way I would do it with your numbers: Start the 5 x 5 with the flat bench as your core exercise at 210, working fast enough to make the fifth set difficult but not impossible. Add 5 lbs. per week until you hit failure (lengthening the rest times as the weights get heavier). When you hit failure, try it again the next week. If you fail, move the weight up and go to 5 x3.
I quit thinking about going to failure on every set and have made some real nice progress. It hasn't hurt me to under guess my starting weights either; I can still look in the mirror and see changes week to week. Be patient.
 
westsnoop nailed it.

don't be afraid to underguess your starting weight. and if you get to the last set of the last rep and you feel you have more in you, i see no harm in doing a few more reps. my deadlift sets were 4x5, 1x10.

starting light won't hurt you at all, it'll just make sure you can stick with the routine longer. for example, i hit a max in the beginning of december of 200x3 flat bench. middle of January (after an unexpected 2 1/2 week lifting break) i started 5x5 with a flat bench weight of 135. i added 5lbs a week and i was getting all 5 reps in all 5 sets all the way up to 190lbs.

the week i tried 195, my sets went 1x5, 1x4, 2x3, 0 - stayed at this weight the next week and ended up with almost identical sets/reps. HOWEVER, i hit my first set for 5 reps at a weight 5lbs below my previous max.

the next week - 200lbs 5x3 and hit every set, every rep. this was my previous MAX and only for 1 set, and just barely at that!

the following week i went for a bench PR and hit 235x3. so 35lb increase on my bench max in just under 4 months.

if i were you, i would start 5x5 no higher than 225. if you were to move along without stalling, in 11 weeks you'd hit 275 for 5x5 instead of 1 set of 6. i'm sure at that point, your 3 rep max could be up to 320-325. the program seemed like it was moving along real slowly, and it wasn't until the last few weeks i was running it that i realized i was making strength progress. i should be back on this routine next week....week and a half off for finals and i've got one hell of a cold too. timing for the cold couldn't of been better (cause i planned on taking this break) or worse (cause it's making studying hell).

good luck with it if you decide to try it out.
 
So it is really more about the 5th set? If I get 5 reps the first thre and then 4 on set 4 and 3 on set 5 then I would stick with that weight until I can get the 5 sets of 5 correct?
 
when you get stuck at a weight, you repeat that weight the following week. if you've been progressing for a few weeks, chances are you'll hit that weight the following week (my BB curl stalled 3x, but the following week i'd hit all sets/reps). if, however, you don't get all 5x5 the second week at the same weight, then the following week, bump the weight up and do 5x3. do this for about 4 weeks, increasing the weight every week. after about 4 weeks, drop back to the weight you were stuck on with 5x5, and start 5x5 with that weight all over again until you get stuck again.

as i understand it, the principle behind this program is that you're constantly varying the weight, which is what your muscles need in order to grow. even if you go to 5x3 for 4 weeks, then drop 20lbs and start 5x5 all over again, you're still creating a positive change. even though the weight is lighter, you're now doing more reps. it is because of this constant variation of weights that you want to start the routine with a light enough weight for each exercise. focus on form and not going to failure. once you've been progressing on this routine for a while, you'll get to the last rep of the last set and just barely be able to finish off, only to come back in the next week, bump the weight up, and repeat. i do not want to hit failure on any set, because that means i can't go heavier the next week. being able to continiously go heavier week after week is a real boost.
 
Its kind of like CAT training (compensatory accelerative training). You need not to go to failure every set as long as you are pushing as fast as you can every set, using as much force as you possibly can. If you are pushing as hard as you can, you wil make gains. Don't just push the weight up, explode it up. And if I were you, I would start with about 235 for 5x5.

I understand what you are saying though, long ago I used to think the same way. If I can get more reps, but I stop prematurely, how the hell am I optimizing my gains? Well I tried to explain it to you, you are compensating your weights for force...if you want you can do a search on the CAT training thing, because from experience, that is what I would equate this routine with.
 
halfaclue - any more questions, feel free to ask.

those 2.5lb plates will be your best friends on this routine.....and your worst enemy. trust me. first time i stalled on BB curl, it was 90lb with the EZ curl bar. the second week, i got all 5x5, but it was a struggle. next week, 95lbs...all 5x5 no problem at all. week after, 100lbs...just 2 tiny ass little 2.5lb weights on that bar and i failed miserably. i couldn't believe that those 2 tiny ass plates could shut me down so fast. amazing. it seems like it's nothing when you're loading it up. but those 2.5s, if you can keep adding 1 on each side week after week, you get some nice results. slow and steady, but as we all know, bodybuilding and strength training don't happen overnight.

good luck on the routine if you decide to run it.
 
you could use it for all muscle groups no problem. the only problem i have with it is that i only work a muscle directly once a week. even considering that, however, i made improvements. use it for your compound movements. afterwards, feel free to go to failure on other exercises.
 
I seem to recall Needsize saying it was cool if you did a rest pause on some of the last reps of the last sets. Explained: just put the weight on the rack and count to twenty, and then finish the set.
 
OK I need some input without any laughter. I did deadlifts this weekend and I normally only do 2 sets inbetween back and legs as a transition. So I decided to make Deads a prioirty and I tried the 5 * 5 with 225. I did all 5 sets with 5 reps with no problem. What weight should I go up to?
 
and then the next week, 235.

no laughter coming from me. last time i worked deads (3 weeks ago) i worked with 215. 220 coming on wednesday no problem. my max is only 305x1, tested 2 weeks ago. so no, definetly no laughter from me, just me saying go kill that shit and keep deadlifting :evil:
 
should you do all your lifts with this routine? ie. if i do flat bench 5x5, should i continue with incline 5x5, and all my other lifts after 5x5?
 
WhatNot51 said:
should you do all your lifts with this routine? ie. if i do flat bench 5x5, should i continue with incline 5x5, and all my other lifts after 5x5?
Click to expand...

No. One or the other should be your "core" lift. You can add the other as an auxillary lift (2 sets of approximately an 8 rep failure). Choose another exercise (for example, a fly movement) for an additional auxillary.

One core lift per bodypart.
 
Deadlifts target the entire body. They stimulate growth all over. They're a true man's exercise (and a woman's, should they decide to lift). They test your will and raw strength. They're great to strengthen your lower back, but biceps, the entire back complex, hamstrings, glutes, quads, calves, forearms, neck, abs, the core in its entirety. Everything is hit by these. Learn proper form with lower weight. You will learn to love to hate to deadlift...or something. Just do it man.
 
ok thanx i'll try that but is there any othe exercise which that has the same benefits and effect the core in it's entirety. just curious trying to learn as much as i can
 
Deadlifts do more. Same as SLDLs do more than good mornings. Since you have to hold and stabilize it in front you you...well, you get the idea.
 
Yeah my body was sore in areas I didn't know contained muscle after I did my 5 * 5 with 225 for deads. I always here people say it is great for you back but I couldn't see the physics behind it and i still can't...but man could I feel it the next day...shins, calves, quads, hams,....it was insane. I'm looking forward to back day for the first time ever just to see if I can do 5 * 5 with 245 this week.
 
westsnoop said:
No. One or the other should be your "core" lift. You can add the other as an auxillary lift (2 sets of approximately an 8 rep failure). Choose another exercise (for example, a fly movement) for an additional auxillary.

One core lift per bodypart.
Click to expand...


are you only allowed 2 auxillary lifts? is any more than 2 considered overtraining for this routine?
 
WhatNot51 said:
are you only allowed 2 auxillary lifts? is any more than 2 considered overtraining for this routine?
Click to expand...

Overtraining is an individual thing. For the majority of us, it would be.
Try the program as Needsize designed it, then tweak it for your own needs as you learn how your body adapts to it.
You WIll feel like you are undertraining the first week, but watch what happens as the weeks roll by.
 
I was going to say exactly what westsnoop said. It's individual. It depends on whether or not you worked up to that level of volume, your age, quality of rest and nutrition...too many variables.
 
OK so I did my second 5 * 5 with deads. Last week I did 225 this week I did 255. No problem getting all five each set but the grip was getting suspect towards the end. I really don't want to go to straps because my grip is so weak but what would you guys recommend? Also when you guys do deads how wide of a stance do you take? I was doing shoulder width but this guy next to me doing 315 had his legs spread so far that he barely used legs in the lift at all.
 
A wider stance with the hands inside the legs is a sumo deadlift. Targets the glutes and hams more. I like conventional deads to really hammer the back.

As for straps or not, a lot of people say not to, and a lot say to use 'em. I personally wouldn't because I like my grip to progress too, but the exercise IS explicitly for back and you can train grip with COC grippers another time, so if you wanna get that back growing, or that strength shooting upwards, use straps.
 
this guy had is hands spread out kind of far (definitely wider then shoulder width) and on the outside of his legs. It looked like a regular DL but just with a wide stance. because of his stance though he only had to move his legs about 4 inches for them to be straight.
 
halfaclue said:
OK so I did my second 5 * 5 with deads. Last week I did 225 this week I did 255. No problem getting all five each set but the grip was getting suspect towards the end. I really don't want to go to straps because my grip is so weak but what would you guys recommend? Also when you guys do deads how wide of a stance do you take? I was doing shoulder width but this guy next to me doing 315 had his legs spread so far that he barely used legs in the lift at all.
Click to expand...


Just a quick question.........Im trying to learn the 5x5 routine and I see you went from 225 to 255, arnt you only supposed to go up 5lbs?
 
I think so...but I just picked a weight to start at without ever doing it before and I think it was too light so i jumped up thirty lbs. I think i am going to go up to 275 next week and try that because the only thing tough about 255 was the grip in the last two sets.
 
halfaclue said:
I think so...but I just picked a weight to start at without ever doing it before and I think it was too light so i jumped up thirty lbs. I think i am going to go up to 275 next week and try that because the only thing tough about 255 was the grip in the last two sets.
Click to expand...

O ok, your finding your weight to start with then your going up by 5lb a week.
Gotcha.
 
yeah because I would be wasting time if I only went up 5lbs a week when i can do so much more....so right now I am trying to find that weight were i start to struggle with finishing all 5 and 5
 
Ok I understand the 5X5 training, but do you guys do it for every big muscle group during that same week. Or do you for example do a 5X5 training for the chest only for a few weeks, then do say legs?
 
rrrr said:
Ok I understand the 5X5 training, but do you guys do it for every big muscle group during that same week. Or do you for example do a 5X5 training for the chest only for a few weeks, then do say legs?
Click to expand...

It's every large muscle group, every week. I even did it with bis and tris and stayed on it for almost 5 months.
 
I am only doing with dead lifts right now.

Gymtime...when you do it do you do the 5*5 with every excerecise or say 5*5 with straightbar curls but then 2-3 sets of the other excercises....or like 5*5 with flat bench but then 2-3 sets of other chest excercises. Can you give me some examples?
 
halfaclue said:
I am only doing with dead lifts right now.

Gymtime...when you do it do you do the 5*5 with every excerecise or say 5*5 with straightbar curls but then 2-3 sets of the other excercises....or like 5*5 with flat bench but then 2-3 sets of other chest excercises. Can you give me some examples?
Click to expand...

Soitenly.

I typically do two muscle groups per session; one large, one small. So for chest and bi day for example:

DB flat bench: 5x5
Incline bar: 2x10,8
Flies: 2x10,8

EZ bar curl: 5x5
Seated db curl incline: 2x8
(strict 5x5 rules add another bi excercise here, i just stick with the two)

Back and Tri night:

Deads: 5x5
Rows (cable, pullowns, smith machine, whatever): 2x8
Straight Arm Pulldowns: 2x8

Weighted Dips: 5x5
Reverse Grip Skulls: 2x8
(same deal as bis)

That's pretty much how it works.

On a side note, if you're going to keep doing deads, which are great for you, be VERY careful about how much weight you add every week. If you try to do too much too fast, your back will surely "snap" you back to Earth eventually. Trust me on this one. Slow and steady progress.
 
Just curious gymtime, why only 2 exercises for your arms? I ask because I am thinking of doing the same thing. By the time I'm done with my chest or back for the day, my arms are very fatigued and I don't feel like I can put in 100% for 3 exercises for my bi's and tri's. Thanks a lot.
 
gymtime said:
Soitenly.

I typically do two muscle groups per session; one large, one small. So for chest and bi day for example:

DB flat bench: 5x5
Incline bar: 2x10,8
Flies: 2x10,8

EZ bar curl: 5x5
Seated db curl incline: 2x8
(strict 5x5 rules add another bi excercise here, i just stick with the two)

Back and Tri night:

Deads: 5x5
Rows (cable, pullowns, smith machine, whatever): 2x8
Straight Arm Pulldowns: 2x8

Weighted Dips: 5x5
Reverse Grip Skulls: 2x8
(same deal as bis)

That's pretty much how it works.

On a side note, if you're going to keep doing deads, which are great for you, be VERY careful about how much weight you add every week. If you try to do too much too fast, your back will surely "snap" you back to Earth eventually. Trust me on this one. Slow and steady progress.
Click to expand...

Thanks bro..I'll give this a shot.
 
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